Newbie 791(Over)

[Droideka_11]

BBcode fail

Not used to these forums.

[Spolium]

Or I thought better of my vote against Vesuvius?

I wouldn't discount it as a possibility, but the only person who really knows that is you. All the town has to go on is the fact that you voted Vesuvius in the same breath as saying you expect him to be town, then unvoted when someone pointed this out. It doesn't really bode well.

[Lockheart]

Lockheart, who do YOU think is scum right now, and why?

That would be Vesuvius. Even after many people have explained how important Day 1 is, he hopped on the bandwagon and put me at L-1.
It's also convenient for him that this is his first online game and he has that to blame for his impatience.

Do you believe that [Vesuvius'] impatience is being forced at the moment, in order to draw out scum? You mentioned this possibility, but how likely do you believe it to be his motive at the moment?

I no longer think that, but it's still a possibility.

Unvote

[Droideka_11]

Or I thought better of my vote against Vesuvius?

I wouldn't discount it as a possibility, but the only person who really knows that is you. All the town has to go on is the fact that you voted Vesuvius in the same breath as saying you expect him to be town, then unvoted when someone pointed this out. It doesn't really bode well.

Well yes I see how that would appear scummy.

I need to be careful with what I post ^^

[Jack of Bombs]

NOBODY LYNCH LOCKHEART.

DISREGARD MY PREVIOUS POST, I MISSED THE UNVOTE. DURRR.

If you thought he was still at L-1 at the time of your first post, why didn't you unvote? Were you okay with leaving him at L-1? Did you think there was a risk of him being accidentally hammered in this game?

@Droideka:

You didn't answer my 'Who are you suspicious of at the moment and why?' question.

@Mod:

Can we get a prod on wake4me4life? And I still want to see more from dramonic, and also Mixologist, who's been posting a fair bit elsewhere.

[Jack of Bombs]

Lockheart, who do YOU think is scum right now, and why?

That would be Vesuvius.

Unvote

... Then why did you unvote without re-casting your vote for Vesuvius afterwards? It would've only been an L-3 vote, after all.

[Jack of Bombs]

Only griefs I've had with you so far is that 2nd vote claim, but you are right, it would be fairly foolish to try to trick people so early in the game.

What about the fact that I've been frequently saying that someone you're 'almost positive' is mafia is probably town. Do you think that constitutes grounds for suspicion?

(Last one for now, I swear. I'll be busy for most of today anyway.)

[hasdgfas]

@Mod:

Can we get a prod on wake4me4life? And I still want to see more from dramonic, and also Mixologist, who's been posting a fair bit elsewhere.

wake4me4life has been prodded

[wake4me4life]

present and sorry for any delay. have to go out of town(3hrs away) for a wedding in a bit. i will update with my thoughts so far tomorrow afternoon.

[Lockheart]

... Then why did you unvote without re-casting your vote for Vesuvius afterwards? It would've only been an L-3 vote, after all.

I want to see more of what happens before I place a non-random vote. I'm not the type to vote, unvote, revote frequently.

[Droideka_11]

@Droideka: You didn't answer my 'Who are you suspicious of at the moment and why?' question.

Some thoughts:

Jack of Bombs, Lockheart, and Scien

- At this point I don't see anything particularly scummy about these people. You guys are the ones who have generated the most discussion, scum usually try to keep a low profile. I also think you have been jumping at each others throats without any real evidence. We should have more of the inactives posting.

Vesuvius

- Has been acting scummy but it can be chalked up to the fact he's new to mafia.

Spolium

- I'm not sure. He's an experienced player so if he's scum, it would be much harder to detect it. Wary of him but hasn't acted scummy so far.

We still have a lot of inactives so we can't discount the probablility of all of the scum being among them.

[Droideka_11]

@Droideka: You didn't answer my 'Who are you suspicious of at the moment and why?' question.

Some thoughts:

Jack of Bombs, Lockheart, and Scien

- At this point I don't see anything particularly scummy about these people. You guys are the ones who have generated the most discussion, scum usually try to keep a low profile. I also think you have been jumping at each others throats without any real evidence. We should have more of the inactives posting.

Vesuvius

- Has been acting scummy but it can be chalked up to the fact he's new to mafia.

Spolium

- I'm not sure. He's an experienced player so if he's scum, it would be much harder to detect it. Wary of him but hasn't acted scummy so far.

We still have a lot of inactives so we can't discount the probablility of all of the scum being among them.

[Droideka_11]

Oops double post.

[Spolium]

NOBODY LYNCH LOCKHEART.

DISREGARD MY PREVIOUS POST, I MISSED THE UNVOTE. DURRR.

If you thought he was still at L-1 at the time of your first post, why didn't you unvote? Were you okay with leaving him at L-1? Did you think there was a risk of him being accidentally hammered in this game?

I did consider the risk of an accidental hammer, and also the possibility of scum getting in a quickhammer. That's why I said "NOBODY LYNCH LOCKHEART".

I'm not adverse to someone being at L-1.

[Vesuvius]

Okay, I have a feeling I am going to have to accept a slower paced game. So how does this work? How is a lynch consensus reached? Does it usually wait until a few days before the deadline and then everyone changes their vote to one person? It sounds like typically a lynch doesn't happen until we are almost at deadline.

[Spolium]

[IC hat]

It varies. Early lynches are generally frowned upon for reasons explored elsewhere in the thread, and the D1 lynch often comes close to deadline anyway (which has the beneficial effect of helping to make up for the lack of short-term information yield on D1 and gives everyone a chance to post, so lurking scum can't get away with a defence like "but the day ended before I had a chance to get involved").

Later days usually progress somewhat faster, but games on this site typically take some time to play out as a whole and hitting a deadline every day can happen, depending upon the players.

[/IC hat]

As for reaching a consensus, let's find out!

I want

everyone

to name their top two suspects; identify which of the two you'd be more willing to vote, and why.

If your opinion has not changed since you last mentioned it, please point out the post(s) to which you refer.

[Scien]

Hmm... ok in order received.

What do you think about the points that you made when you made the vote in the first place, do you believe that they have been addressed?

While the points he brought up against you are moot. I still can't tell whether he's scum or just a new player making mistakes.

Eh... I'm not sure I understand that answer. Let me ask a different way:

It seems like [Vesuvius] want to get rid of [Scien] as fast as possible and "I'm too lazy to read his huge blocks of texts so lets just lynch him" doesn't cut it for me.

You were suspicious of him enough to vote him. Then people call you out on the townie comment. You unvote. But I don't think he addressed your point against him when you voted. So I guess I am trying to ask, was the unvote due to town pressure, due to him addressing your concerns, or you not feeling confident about voting him? If you unvoted for town pressure (which I suspect) that's strange. If you unvoted because he addressed you points, fair enough, can you point out where? If you unvoted because you are not confident about voting him, why did you initially vote, then decide to change? If you claim the last one I really don't understand your thought process and would like to learn more.

I'm not lurking.

Before this comment you were posting, true, but little content. In order you made a random vote, a vote against Vesuvius, a retraction of that vote on some town pressure, and a semi-meaningless answer to a question. That's 4 posts, with only about one with any kind of scum hunting in it. BTW you've posted more opinions since then, so I don't hold you to be super quiet anymore.

What about the fact that I've been frequently saying that someone you're 'almost positive' is mafia is probably town. Do you think that constitutes grounds for suspicion?

Eh, not at the moment. That would depend on other information later. You have not been acting scummy, he has. Just because you think that Vesuvius' play is just newbiness and not scumminess in itself is not suspicious. However if Vesuvius later flips scum, I might have to revisit that, and then this would probably fall under supporting evidence. And when I say supporting evidence, I mean not enough to build a case on, but enough to add credence to a case involving other actions of yours.

I want everyone to name their top two suspects; identify which of the two you'd be more willing to vote, and why.

Heh, I'm pretty annoying eh? Here it is again:
1) Vesuvius - I don't think I'm going to go back and point to the posts were I've said this before since I've been harping on it for almost 4 pages, but my same case applies. I think that wanting to limit discussion, pushing for a short day, pushing for a random lynch, a bit of evasion, and I suppose we can throw in the attempt to create an either/or vote between me an him. Seems like he might be currently backing away from some of these points, so I'm a bit curious about how he will play now. However most of the above are pretty grievous in my book, and my vote stays for the moment.
2) This is tougher. In my list not too long ago this was pretty much a 4 way tie due to activity. Let's see. I think at the moment Droideka is leading that 4 way tie. At least until he answers the questions above.

Who would I vote from those two? Who am I voting? Hehe.

[hasdgfas]

Vesuvius (1) - Scien
Droideka_11 (1) - Jack of Bombs
Lockheart (3) - Mixologist, Spolium, Vesuvius

Not Voting: wake4me4life, dramonic, Driodeka_11, Lockheart

9 alive, 5 to lynch


Reminder: Deadline is June 15th. That's two weeks.

wake4me4life has requested replacement. Searching for one now.

[dramonic]

Agh, I forgot this game existed, I've been updating my other ones but this one slipped from my mind. I blame the lack of a title

[IC hat]

I want

everyone

to name their top two suspects; identify which of the two you'd be more willing to vote, and why.

If your opinion has not changed since you last mentioned it, please point out the post(s) to which you refer.

Since I havent mentionned my opinion on SCUM yet, let's go ^^

Players: Scien, JoB, Mixologist, Spolium, Vesuvius, wake4me4life, dramonic, Driodeka_11, Lockheart

Scien and JoB are both deep in the scumhunting business and right now they haven't said anything particularly suspicious.

Mixologist has been posting in a similar way to me (as in, elsewhere but not here) I don't know his reason, but just in case it's the same as mine or similar I can't use that for scumtell.

Spolium is the one I least expect to be mafia

Vesuvius, I'm still ready to play the newb card on him, but my patientce is growing thinner on his case.

wake4me4life is in my top 2 scum, mostly because he's been lurking/getting prodded and hasn't given ANY excuse whatsoever for his prolonged absence.

dramonic looks like a... oh wait, that's me.

Driodeka I'm not a big fan of, what with the voting for someone he think is town bit (yes, I know it's been said)

Lockheart hasn't really been bringing all that much to the game, but that applies to a lot of us in the game, so I don't think it's scummy per se.


So, to answer the initial question, my top 2 are w4m4l and Driodeka

FoSs: w4m4l and Driodeka

Sidenote, if you guys are scared of getting people on your ass for hammering, I will.

[Vesuvius]

I'm mafia. You should lynch me.

[Scien]

I'm mafia. You should lynch me.

>.> <.<
Um...
Let's see.
You could be joking. I wouldn't know why you would joke like that so I believe this is unlikely.

You could be giving up. That's a bad move. If you didn't want to play, then why'd you sign up? If you decided that you couldn't play anymore, why didn't you ask to be replaced? If you are giving up, this was a bad way to do it.

You could be fishing for responses. Holy crap if you are. This is unorthodox, but interesting. I assume if you are doing this it could be considered a form of scum hunting. You are expecting scum to respond to this in a different way than townies? Are you expecting this to clear you of suspicion if indeed it does look like you are doing it to scum hunt?

Are you scum trying to derail some conversation that is going on at the moment? Maybe Spolium's question to all about their top suspects? Why would you be afraid of that if this option is the case?

You could be doing a variety of other things I suppose, but I believe the three above are most likely...

I'm confused, whats your game man? What thoughts are going through your head when you make this claim?

I'm going to unvote for the moment if you are panicking under pressure; It would be better for you to answer rationally. However if what you say doesn't make sense then expect the vote to return.

Unvote

Could you answer the above?

[Jack of Bombs]

I want

everyone

to name their top two suspects; identify which of the two you'd be more willing to vote, and why.

Might as well do this fully, since it'll hopefully kickstart discussion a little.

Spoilum:

No significant concerns at the moment. Unvoting Lockheart rather than making a 'NOBODY LYNCH LOCKHEART' post would've seemed a more natural course of action to me if you were concerned about the risk of an accidental hammerer (since there was no guarantee they would've even read your post) or a scum quickhammer. You could've just sat back and posted nothing if you were scum and Lockheart was town though, so it's hardly a major criticism. I'd like to see you answer your own question (above quote).

Droideka_11:

See #93 and #84. More recently, you've responded to my question of 'who are you suspicious of and why?' by

a)

not really voicing much in the way of suspicion of anyone (fence-sitting = scummy) and

b)

claiming that I've been jumping at people's throats without any 'real evidence' (real evidence during early Day 1 of a Mafia game? Seriously?). One of my top suspects right now, and I'm happy to keep my vote on you given the number of votes on Lockheart.

Scien:

Your scumhunting's been fine so far, though I admit to finding it slightly weird that you're 'almost positive' Vesuvius is scum this early in the game, when a couple of players have barely said anything. There's more in relation to you at the bottom of this post.

Vesuvius:

Mm, I don't feel as confident that you're town as I used to, particularly after you voted Lockheart to L-1 and said you were okay with his lynch for 'no other reason than to get the game moving', when Scien was your clear first choice for scum. My thoughts on you in #84/#64 still survive somewhat, however. I'd like to hear your thoughts on players not named 'Scien'.

wake4me4life:

You've produced absolutely nothing of substance so far, despite being prodded and saying you'd provide your thoughts a few days ago. I dislike how, after being a non-entity for so long, you magically reappeared less than

3 hours

after receiving the prod before vanishing again. Post more.

@future replacement:

Please provide your thoughts and suspicions regarding everything that's happened so far. Thanks.

dramonic:

A few deleted lines. Just see #84

dramonic ninja:

Well, that's an improvement. Might go back and examine some of your points later, but I note that you only

FoS

your top two suspects, who have either 0 votes or 1 vote on them. Why no vote? Too many people here are afraid/unwilling to use their vote and have it scrutinised.

Lockheart:

There's nothing to really add to what I've said in #84 and #105. You're currently one of my top suspects, but my vote would take you to L-1, which I'm not comfortable with for the reasons I gave in #93.

Mixologist

: You also need to post more. Unless I've missed something, you owe us an explanation as to why you doubt[ed] that Vesuvius was scum back on page 3, as well as an answer to a question I asked you on page 2. Give your general thoughts and suspicions too while you're at it.

---

Just because you think that Vesuvius' play is just newbiness and not scumminess in itself is not suspicious.

The above makes it sound like I've been dismissing Vesuvius's actions solely because of his newness, which isn't the case. See #84 for probably the best summary of why I'm still leaning towards Vesuvius being town; it's essentially because his play doesn't make sense from a scum-perspective (particularly his 'it's either me or Scien' insistence; see below). Newbieness alone shouldn't be sufficient grounds for excusing someone's actions, though it can be a contributing factor, as it is here.

and I suppose we can throw in the attempt to create an either/or vote between me an him.

Do you actually think this makes him more likely to be scum? My problem with this is that I can think of no good reason for scum-Vesuvius to make an either/or lynch between himself and town-you. Even if he did somehow manage to get you lynched today, he'd be almost certain to be subsequently lynched as a result of his actions.

I'm mafia. You should lynch me.

... Are you just trying to get out of the game now? If you're town, get a replacement. If you're scum, vote yourself.

[Scien]

[...] it's essentially because his play doesn't make sense from a scum-perspective

Ok fair enough, I even see where you are coming from and would almost agree with you. However many of his plays make no sense from a townie standpoint either (for reasons I believe are self evident), so in my opinion I don't think we can use your argument on him. All I have to do is switch scum in that sentence with town and I still believe that the sentence is correct.
"[...] his play doesn't make sense from a townie-perspective."
In order to get his play to mesh with a townie in my mind, I would have to throw a newbie card into the mix. And you can do that with him being scum too. So its a moot point as well in my mind, for the same reasons that 'His play doesn't make sense for a scum' is a moot point.

Where that leaves him in my head is with actions. The rest of my case there is mainly what he has been suggesting town to do. Those count as actions in my book, and they are pretty scummy in that same book.

So long story short, you are right. However that's not enough to make me change my mind, I can use your same argument to support him being scum.

Do you actually think this makes him more likely to be scum?

True, it is odd that he would try and set up an either/or like that during the very beginning of day 1, if he was scum (And I already discussed above how I think that a lot of his plays don't make sense from a townie or scum perspective.). However even if he is town its not very logical to set up a condition like that. I consider illogical plays kinda scummy.

[Scien]

Oh and I guess I should say how the above relates to you not being scummy just by leaning town on him.

Everything I said before still applies. Its not enough just to claim that you think he is town. It would be the result of him flipping scum, and you thinking he was town. Then it would be worth revisiting your positions on him as well as other actions you have made in game.

[hasdgfas]

charlatan replaces wake4me4life.

thanks!