Oso wrote:quadz. Back and forth on him because of his posts. Ends up with a mildly good feeling. Why? Because he went out of his way to correct a mistake he made here:
xvart.
Oso wrote:quadz. Back and forth on him because of his posts. Ends up with a mildly good feeling. Why? Because he went out of his way to correct a mistake he made here:
Certainly they would. If it was to their advantage to do so. When I re-read quadz, I didn't see where he gained any real advantage to correcting that mistake. Other than maybe correcting something that may be used against him later. Or, perhaps, that he realized he made a mistake and honestly didn't want an uncorrected mistake laying out there, which was the interpretation I went with. It all goes back to what I said about him. It doesn't seem to me that he like he is doing anything maliciously at this point in the game. Are there things that bug me about him? Yes, there are but not severe enough to do more than make note of move on.xvart wrote:Oso- so you don't think that scum would want to correct a mistake he/she made?
Already answered here: And I never thought Friend was scum for voting vezo. vezo got the town read and a Day 1 pass from me because two of the people that voted him are on my suspect list.Poirot wrote:Oso, I'd like you to develop on your suspicions on me/friend just to be clear. Are they solely based on the fact that friend was in vezok's wagon? If not, why?
Me(Oso) wrote:...
Friend: Tending scummy. But alot of that is based on an undefinable general itch rather than anything concrete to point to. Basically, that I don't think he is as thick as he was letting on earlier. On a re-read, I now hold the opinion that his interaction with me asking about my vote then unvote on Tasky weren't because he misunderstood them but rather that he was looking for some sort of contradiction or see if I would do some sort of weak sauce backpedal on my unvote. I reread my interaction with him wondering where my reasoning wasn't clear. Turns out I was perfectly clear and not just because I knew where I was going when I wrote them but no one else seems to have had any trouble understanding either the vote or the unvote. So, no vote right now on Friend either. I have no problem thinking he is scummy at the moment or even saying it, but I have no concrete evidence he is so, no vote at this time. But he is on my list of suspects.
...
No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.Poirot wrote:Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.
Yes I am, and is one of the reasons he hasn't gotten a full on town read from me. Again back to the whole impression thing. I think KageLord is doing it scummily, quadz, no. Just because I think one player is scummy for doing something it doesn't necessarily follow that I suspect another player as scummy because they are doing the same thing. Logic is good. For me it is useless by itself without stepping back and trying to figure out the 'why' of the situation. That requires assigning motivations based on gut and overall impressions on where I think the player(s) is going with their posts.Poirot wrote:This is basically why you will keep being my first suspect for a long time. You're basically excusing yourself of all responsibility (Oso, are you reading this? Isn't this the same thing Kage allegedly do and cause you to vote him?).
...vezokpiraka wrote:KageLord?
Yes.
He is trying to hard to paint someone scum. (I E : When I SSBF posted before me he made a pretty big case saying I am scum just because of that.) I just found this scum hunting tehnique a few days ago and it never proved me wrong.People who try too hard to make someone seem scummy are usually scum.
That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work. I just want to raise awareness at the fact that your case is as shaky as it goes and that you're refusing to discuss anything that might compromise it. You just shake off any logical inquiry in an evasive way. I've been attacking those reasons and wondering why you don't act consistently when different people do the same thing you call scummy. I worry about who follows along because this is mafia and town is subject to being manipulated by scum or misguided town. My aim is to prevent that by presenting the most objective scenario I can and providing all the facts I see.Oso wrote:No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.Poirot wrote:Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.
Fair enough. Prove it.Oso keeps talking generalities and answering every question evasively. He looks like a politician and that displeases me a great deal.
and this
I do not disagree with the fact that logic is not everything.But when you make a case on someone where you first focus on logic that doesn't hold togetherand there's no attempt to explain the "gut" you apparently feel, it makes me wonder at how easy it is to get anyone lynched.
I know you are. You hit on one of my pet peeves/self-defense actions. Namely that if you think I am scum and am deliberately trying to get KageLord lynched based on faulty logic then go with that. Don't try to set up a situation where you can lynch someone then use my case on KageLord to show I am scum. Because you know what's going to happen? You'll lynch quadz and when he flips town you'll say "Oh shit, we lynched a townie, but Oso is still scum. My bad there quadz." If you think I am deliberately setting up KG for a lynch because I took some bits and pieces and threw together a case simply to get a townie lynched then lynch me.That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work.
I don't like this argument either. This basically looks like you don't care if a wagon might be pushed because scum are jumping on it. One of the easiest ways to find scum is to examine wagons like that. Now, how do we know if someone voting on a wagon is scum or town? Well, we can't really know for sure until they flip, but a great way to increase or decrease suspicion is to examine their reasons behind voting. If they don't give a reason, that is scummy. If they give a good reason, that is more townish. However, if the only reason they give is "gut" or "don't like his posts" or just an exact mimic of someone else's reason, that is very scummy. So, let's let them answer for themselves, hm?Oso wrote:No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.Poirot wrote:Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.
Okay, so you're saying that a big part of the case against me is subjective (based on your gut feeling and impression)? That may be alright for your case, but I don't know how that could explain the other peoples' votes. Did they also have the exact same subjective thoughts? If their reasons so far were the same as yours, they would have to have just happened to think the same way and disregard quadz or the case against vezo.Oso wrote:Yes I am, and is one of the reasons he hasn't gotten a full on town read from me. Again back to the whole impression thing. I think KageLord is doing it scummily, quadz, no. Just because I think one player is scummy for doing something it doesn't necessarily follow that I suspect another player as scummy because they are doing the same thing. Logic is good. For me it is useless by itself without stepping back and trying to figure out the 'why' of the situation. That requires assigning motivations based on gut and overall impressions on where I think the player(s) is going with their posts.Poirot wrote:This is basically why you will keep being my first suspect for a long time. You're basically excusing yourself of all responsibility (Oso, are you reading this? Isn't this the same thing Kage allegedly do and cause you to vote him?).
I don't want an informational lynch. I want you lynched because I think you are scum. Big difference there. And if we can get to your lynch without scragging a townie first, that's even better.KageLord wrote:..
Edit after preview: Again, I think a vezo lynch would provide just as much, if not more, information as my lynch. The vezo lynch has the added bonus of having a firm case against the lynchee other than "gut" and "information". If you're so adamant on getting that information, Oso, and you don't care whether vezo is scum or town, why not lynch vezo and use that in your case against me (and possibly Poirot as well) in the unlikely event that he flips town? Since you already got some attention in this wagon, imagine how much support you could get if the one I focused the most on was a townie.
was me giving Poirot the finger.Me(Oso) wrote:If you want an informational lynch then call for one. And if you are going to use a flip to try and determine my alignment then I suggest it be KageLord, that way you can use 'killed a townie or bussed a partner' no matter what happens. Might be easier too as you can start planning posts for either eventuality now and not wait for the flip.
When in all actuality Tasky had said he was making these questions to get out of RVS quickly, exactly what vezo was accusing Tasky of NOT doing.vezokpiraka Post 24 wrote:I'll answer 6 only.
Usually people who want to end RVS by not saying "End the RVS" are scum.
Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.
vote Tasky
Note vezo posted his accusation right under the post where Tasky says this. Vezo does late back away slightly from his statement, claiming joke. I'm not buying it.Tasky Post 23 wrote:now... since I'd actually like to get out of the RVS fast, I'll ask some questions for you to answer...
After vezo unvotes, Friend is right there and votes him and I agree with how he said vezo was sheeping. vezo counters with this post which is striking to me because he hadvezokpiraka Post 92 wrote:So you're giving tasky the noob pass but you're voting for me because of sheepping?
You sure you're not scum with Tasky?
This accusation and vezo's unvote don't add up or even work together at all. He is angry at Friend for doing something he himself is doing. Seems redundant and suggests that vezo had no idea why Oso unvoted Tasky in the first place, despite posting that he agreed and followed him.Oso Post 82 wrote:Based on the way Tasky has posted so far, if his questions are some sort of scum gambit, I am not seeing it.
Vezo then OMGUS votes KageLord, which wouldn't be so bad if he had bothered to actually talk about what happened. Just “I don't like his last few posts” which is about as non committal as you can get while voting for someone. He once again calls Tasky scum despite having unvoted him earlier and throws Friend in their as another OMGUS move.vezokpiraka Post 144 wrote:Wagon analysis.
We have tasky and friend. One who got a wagon formed on him at the beginning and one who defended him. KageLord - the one who is pushing a wagon on me for out of game reasons. We may have all the three(?) scums here.
I willVote KageLord
I really don't like his last few posts. He comes as incredibly scummy to me.
diddin Post 99 wrote:Also, FoS:Vezopiraka for that backpedal.
I'm not sure I should be voting Task, as some other people said, he's pretty new, and I doubt noobscum would have such an elaborate plan. From my experiences, noobtown tend to want to be as helpful as possible and end up looking scummy because of it. That, and noobscum often will freak out and start flailing with only a few votes on them and start fiailing, while Tasky has kept his composure pretty well.
unvote
diddin Post 115 wrote:L-2 this early? I think we really need to take a look at this wagon, as it took off way too quick.
unvote
Above is more sheeping of Oso by diddin. Why isn't anyone noticing this?diddin Post 113 wrote:True Oso, but all of that was written before he saw Vezo's post explaining why the post took particularly long to write. However, KageLord doesn't unvote afterward, which makes it seriously look like he's grasping for straws here.
FoS: KageLord
At that point, the case on Tasky was A)role fishing (which is seems SSBF agreed with.) and b) The Oso contradiction. So when SSBF says he likes that case, that is what he is talking about. I like Friend's question here asking SSBF to explain the case in his own words. SSBF responds with an ISO read which suggests that he was actually thinking about the case rather than just jumping aboard the wagon. In my mind he wins a couple of town points here, but it would have been better if he had laid out clearly, all his reasons without having to be asked for them.Super Smash Bros. Fan Post 47 wrote:No, not answering RQS questions is not scummy, it's a personal choice. Later on, when you're actually asking questions that actually contribute to the game, ignoring it constantly is scummy, but choosing not to answer RQS questions isn't scummy. This is why having a mixture of RVS and RQS is the best way to start a game IMO.Tasky wrote:1. not answering questions is denying information... and thats scummyThe scums know who are the townies and who are the scums. But like townies, they can learn more. Information is helpful to town, but the downside is that they can sometimes be helpful mainly to scums. Scums want power roles dead before normal townies and by asking those questions, you are giving the scums an advantage.Tasky wrote:definitely town... scum already has (almost) all information they need... if I know more about you, it will be easier for me to find out whether you are scum or not...
I like the case on Tasky so far.Unvote, Vote: Tasky
Feels like he is already trying to discredit any possible power roles we might have in the town. There is paranoid and then there isSuper Smash Bros. Fan Post 181 wrote:So are you saying we should ignore chainsaw defenses on other people if we don't know the people's alignments? I'd rather let people know about them now so people will more likely be able to pick up on them if Player A attacked Player C while defending Player B and Player B flips scum then ignore it until Player B flips scum.diddin wrote:Smash, Chainsaw Defenses aren't a scumtell unless the person someone is defending indireectly is confirmed scum. So attacking people for chainsaws D1 is just lol.Unless it's in a Newbie Game or in an Open game that doesn't have Serial Killer/Mafa Godfather/any role that turn up innocent although they are not town-aligned, you cannot fully trust your town investigation. Even in a game without anti-town roles that turn up innocent on investigations, there can be different variations of Cops. You could be insane, which means that you actually got an Innocent on a scum. There is no guarateen that your Innocent investigation is true in most circumstances.q21 wrote:Cop with a town result on someone.You cannot rule out the possibility of Masons being part of a scum factions as well. Maybe unlikely, but it can happen. Scum Masons can lie about there alignments as well.q21 wrote:Masons.And that's worse then intentionally self-voting during the scum hunting stage because?q21 wrote:That would just be boring.
He finally unvotes Tasky and returns to the safe netural zone.Super Smash Bros. Fan Post 219 wrote:Unvote
Tasky's play resemble's a townie a lot more. He is finally contributing to the game and making stances. I'll still keep a close eye on him, thought. For example, I thought his ISO of diddin and vezokpiraka contained some unecessary information, especially the points where he passes them off as null tells, those can be cut off unless he has something worthwhile to say about them. Looking forward to hearing more out of the slot.
I also need to re-read the thread to see if I can bring anything else to the table and mention who I think should be the play for ToDay.
@diddin: ISO: 9: Why have you decided against defending your actions that I brought up against you?
For your first question, it's due to my play style. I tend to keep my vote on a person longer then most people, especially when it gets near deadline. This is because I don't like being inconsistent with my game play.Sotty7 wrote:SSBF the deadline is seemingly around the corner why has it taken you so long to back off Tasky when you really stopped pushing his case awhile ago? What are you doing to help us reach a lynch?
But is is better to have unique reasons for voting a person, which is more contents then just agreeing with other people.q21 wrote:Just because my vote doesn't have a unique reason of its own doesn't mean that it doesn't have nay substance.
I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but I think you've just made a contradiction. Why say "yay" to having more time to discuss if you're bored of the game?vezokpiraka wrote:We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
Yeah. I just wanted to focus my last post more on reading over quadz.Sotty7 wrote:diddin, I had a couple of questions addressed to you in my post. Are you going to answer them?
Either your sarcasm detector is bugged or you're looking WAY too hard for reasons to vote someone.Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but I think you've just made a contradiction. Why say "yay" to having more time to discuss if you're bored of the game?vezokpiraka wrote:We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
Yes, wise Obi Wan.Sotty7, 285 wrote:Only scum deal in absolutes
What are you talking about? How about you get on a real case wagon like quadz08? The case on quadz is 100x times better than KageLord and even more obvious. If you want to contribute (in a meaningful way) help put some pressure on quadz. Like NOW.vezokpiraka, 291 wrote:We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is alredy getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
I am waiting for either getting at L-2 to claim or kagelord getting lynched.
What do you mean the case on quadz is good? Like, you think he is likely scum? Or could he be anti-town? Or could he just be town in a pickle?Super Smash Bros. Fan, 286 wrote:Quadz08: Reading Quadz08 in ISO, #258 feels like AtE. He admitting to having a problem with his play style instead of actually making a decent response to Poirot's case to him with Poirot made in #252. I also find it odd that despite him attacking vezokpiraka, that he's currently going after me. He showed us more evidence that vezokpiraka was scum then I was, yet has a vote one me. I also wasn't a fan of his defense of diddin as it made him look hypocritical when calling me out for "defending is a scum tell.". The case against Quadz08 is decent as well. Willing to lynch him if vezokpiraka doesn't ge through ToDay.
Who was this directed at? I'm going to go ahead and say that playing by gut is fine but it shouldn't be used as a tool to finagle lynch orders/preferences in such drastic ways.Oso, 282 wrote:Ok, I'll bite on that one. How do you explain 'gut feeling'? By definition it is not something based in logic. It based on past experience, overall impressions and perhaps even a subconscious awareness that something is wrong or right but you just haven't ferreted out the logical basis for it yet.
How about we skip the informational lynches and just get to lynching the obvious scum? Regardless, lynching vezok will yield little in terms of information because everyone has a reason to get rid of vezok, regardless of his alignment.KageLord, 283 wrote:Edit after preview: Again, I think a vezo lynch would provide just as much, if not more, information as my lynch. The vezo lynch has the added bonus of having a firm case against the lynchee other than "gut" and "information". If you're so adamant on getting that information, Oso, and you don't care whether vezo is scum or town, why not lynch vezo and use that in your case against me (and possibly Poirot as well) in the unlikely event that he flips town? Since you already got some attention in this wagon, imagine how much support you could get if the one I focused the most on was a townie.
Okay, wait a minute, the order doesn't really make much sense. You put Quadz08 at 2nd and vezokpiraka at 3rd. Yet you pushed vezokpiraka's lynch more then quadz08's lynch, where you said he only had one post. How is that one post you called quadz08 out on makes him scummier then vezokpiraka?diddin wrote:Top 3 scumspects:
1. SSBF
2. quadz
3. vezo
It should be obvious that I think quadz08 is pretty scummy, so yeah, I think he's likely scum.xvart wrote:What do you mean the case on quadz is good? Like, you think he is likely scum? Or could he be anti-town? Or could he just be town in a pickle?