Mini 493: Methodical Mafia - Game Over!

[Simenon]

Maybe I'm just really against one-sentence posts (and lord knows Simenon isn't the only one guilty of that),

Okay. Why?

also: i don't feel guilty making one-sentence posts.

but I'm just saying be wary of who you are trusting to lead this wagon.

scummy.

[distad]

I pointed you to a page, which is better than a simple one-line-post...

BMQ, I'm agreeing with Simenon. Your post felt more than anything like you wanted to

appear

to be contributing (as opposed to actually contributing), which is backed up by:

In fact, had I not commented on LML's strategy, would I be targeted and persecuted for "ignoring" it and not contributing to the topic of discussion? Am I to be punished simply because others were able to speak on a subject before I was able to?

Basically you're saying you made that post because you thought you'd be attacked if you didn't. It's not that you didn't add anything, but that you're excessively concerned with your own appearance.

Also, discussing the doc strategy in-thread? No! Bad BMQ!

Bad

BMQ! That's wrong on

so many

levels.

There are two distinct thoughts there. Unfortunately he is dead and cannot clarify beyond this:

Also, discussing the doc strategy in-thread? No! Bad BMQ!

Bad

BMQ! That's wrong on

so many

levels.

Do you want the doctor to protect randomly? Or to make uneducated decisions? If we are not to discuss targeting strategy on the first day, then what are we to do? Sit around and talk about avatars?

Spend day 0 as if it's day 1, as I proposed earlier? Give people an opportunity to decide who is acting scummily in this game to give more material on which to base lists?

Also, if doing something is bad, we are better off doing nothing than doing that thing.

I'm against the doctor protecting randomly, but I would rather trust the doctor to make good decisions by themselves than discuss out in the open where the scum can both influence the decision and pick up hints about how best to minimise the impact of the doctor (

especially

if we reach a "conclusion" about the best strategy), or even get clues as to who may be the doctor. Yes, there's a risk that someone will make poor decisions that way, but that's a considerably lesser risk than talking about it.

pseudovote: BrianMcQueso

.

Continued discussion along these lines seems forced. It is as if you WANT us to think that you are the doctor fishing for suggestions. I think it's a red herring.

Is that more what you're looking for?

[distad]

There is more discussion between VitR, Simenon, and Erg0, but I didn't think any of their comments to be particularly quote worthy in that setting.

I comprised a little, so can you.

[Glork]

I know this is gonna sound biased because he's trying to lead a 'wagon on me, but I'm really not a fan of Simenon at this point. Go through the filter of his posts, there's really not anything there that could be helpful to anyone. Maybe I'm just really against one-sentence posts (and lord knows Simenon isn't the only one guilty of that), but I'm just saying be wary of who you are trusting to lead this wagon.

Seriously.

That's simenon's playstyle.

Get used to it.


However this:

I did a quick re-read and page 6 is rife with anti-BMQ points that I agree with.

Another example of one-sentence posts that are extremely unhelpful. Joining a bandwagon without any real explanation to accompany it. What, specifically, do you agree with? What parts of my play do you find scummy, so that I can address them? I demand specifics.

is

[Mr. Flay]

You were the only player to do that.

I WHAT?

I would like EVERYONE IN THE GAME to target me, Night One.
...

The Roleblocker

should target himself in order for this plan to work.

okay i reckon we can turn this night start into a day start by using the vig's kill as the d0 lynch. i am of the opinion that this would be a good thing - although there are downsides the benefit is i think well worth it. thoughts?

This Day 0 is very important. This is not the time for Irresponsible Glrok. This is the time for Useful Scumhunting Glrok.

Day 0 is a huge boon to creating your targeting list.
...
Without the benefit of Day 0, then everyone would be forced into random lists, but we have information to guide our choices now, no matter how limited it might be.

We were given two entire weeks for discussion, so let's make good use of that time and get a lot of information that will help our power roles. Day 0 should not be considered a kick-back day that doesn't really matter because there is no lynch. Day 0 could be the most significant day of the game.

A formulaic approach to target lists (e.g. BMQ's suggestions above) will work better for some roles than others.

For roles that interact with the scum directly or indirectly (e.g. doctor, roleblocker) the individual with the role really needs to make the decision for themselves regarding what method to apply.

Glork & distad, I think Day 0 could be very valuable

if

enough players participate, both in helping us compile lists and giving us more info for the Day game.

And this re-read reminded me that you replaced ojpower, who had that mysterious confusion about how whoever is targeted at night kills. You're climbing back up my list toward a vote, Vit.

[Simenon]

dat's some good postin dat is

Why?

(yes i have a reason for asking this to you and not to bmq)

[Glork]

A) I don't have a meta on Distad like I have on you
B) Distad isn't accomplishing much by name-calling without evidence (says the pot to the kettle)
C) His suspicions so far have pretty much sucked

[Glork]

D) I like the questions that BMQ asked -- they seem to be good ones for Distad to try to answer if his suspicion of BMQ is genuine
E) Have I mentioned that BMQ is a bad lynch today?
F) 'Cause I said so


....I think that covers it.

[Simenon]

B) Distad isn't accomplishing much by name-calling without evidence (says the pot to the kettle)

I must be misunderstanding.

Why is he not accomplishing much by wagoning bmq?

[Simenon]

D) I like the questions that BMQ asked -- they seem to be good ones for Distad to try to answer if his suspicion of BMQ is genuine

Does it have to be?

[BrianMcQueso]

It is as if you WANT us to think that you are the doctor fishing for suggestions. I think it's a red herring.

If I were a doctor, I would certainly not drop any semblance of a hint towards being the doctor. I wasn't trying to mislead you, I was trying to help the doctor. Obviously I failed, as they did not protect the obvious target (LML), who in turn would be able to confirm the doctor's identity at a later time if the need arose.

Is that more what you're looking for?

Yes, thank you. Original thought > "I agree with X"

but I'm just saying be wary of who you are trusting to lead this wagon.

scummy.

I suspect you = I am scummy. Typical flawed logic.

Maybe I'm just really against one-sentence posts (and lord knows Simenon isn't the only one guilty of that),

Okay. Why?

Let's say I believe Player X is scummy, for whatever reason. But going over what Player X has posted, there's very little evidence to help my case and prove that X is being shady. Convenient, eh? The more you post, the easier it is for people to get a read on you and determine if you are pro-town, and the scum have an interest in not letting players get a read on them. All in all, posting short posts without any relevant information (or "lurking", if you will) is typical scum behavior.

Why was I not voting you?

vote: Simenon

[Simenon]

I suspect you = I am scummy. Typical flawed logic.

This is a good reason why there should be more votes on BMQ.

Let's say I believe Player X is scummy, for whatever reason. But going over what Player X has posted, there's very little evidence to help my case and prove that X is being shady. Convenient, eh? The more you post, the easier it is for people to get a read on you and determine if you are pro-town, and the scum have an interest in not letting players get a read on them. All in all, posting short posts without any relevant information (or "lurking", if you will) is typical scum behavior.

This really is quite uneccessary. What you really are saying is that lurking in plain site is scummy. Which is not what I'm doing.

I simply don't communicate in thirty-line posts. I'm not verbose. A while ago, I tried to be verbose. I failed miserably. I think I can make good, decent posts with only using one line, so I'll stick to that, thank you. That and bandwagoning.

Your vote doesn't really make much sense either.

Please die.

[Glork]

B) Distad isn't accomplishing much by name-calling without evidence (says the pot to the kettle)

I must be misunderstanding.

Why is he not accomplishing much by wagoning bmq?

E) Have I mentioned that BMQ is a bad lynch today?

Seriously, Sim. Stop playing terrible and start lynching scums, okay?

[Simenon]

To you, BMQ may be a bad lynch. Why does that make him an unproductive wagon?

[Glork]

Because I've already found the scums on his wagon.

[Glork]

Actually, Sim, if you think that the wagon has been productive, I want you to explain exactly why you think it has been productive.

Who on the wagon do you think is protown?
Who on the wagon do you think is scum?
What do you think of the people off-wagon who have commented on BMQ?
What do you think of the people who have posted but have not commented on BMQ and/or his bandwagon?

[distad]

A) I don't have a meta on Distad like I have on you
B) Distad isn't accomplishing much by name-calling without evidence (says the pot to the kettle)
C) His suspicions so far have pretty much sucked
D) I like the questions that BMQ asked -- they seem to be good ones for Distad to try to answer if his suspicion of BMQ is genuine
E) Have I mentioned that BMQ is a bad lynch today?
F) 'Cause I said so
....I think that covers it.

A) Gee... I guess you'll have to actually respond to the game content instead of relying on past assumptions... The extra couple of minutes you'll have to spend each day will probably be tough on you...
B) Again, I referenced a page that I felt was particularly damning -- as that wasn't enough, I pinpointed a couple of the posts that I had considered for my vote. (QFT)
C) In your *humble* opinion, I presume...
D) Which I actually accomplished, at least to the satisfaction of the asker.
E) Nope!
F) I hadn't counted on a Glorkinator in this game... That will alter my strategy a little.

[Erg0]

Since nobody else asked...

Glork:

why

is BMQ a bad lynch today?

Distad, you've voted for four different people already today, and actually went from voting Simenon (for wagoning Flay) to jumping onto the next wagon he started. It looks like you just found a wagon that you thought might have legs, so you jumped on it without going through the intervening phase of concluding that Sim wasn't scum. I think you want to just get any lynch you can.

FoS: Distad

[BrianMcQueso]

I suspect you = I am scummy. Typical flawed logic.

This is a good reason why there should be more votes on BMQ.

If a player finds you suspicious, that does not necessarily make them scum.

I'm sure you've got other other reasons for suspecting me, Simenon, and those may be valid. But if you can't understand what I just wrote, then I'm just going to ignore you completely. I'd rather not waste my words on a player devoid of logic.

I think I can make good, decent posts with only using one line, so I'll stick to that, thank you.

Have you read your posts? We have such all-star posts as "Erm", "/clap", and "Flay wagon please". I'm not asking you to write essays, I'm just looking for a little thought. Admittedly, some of your more recent posts have been better, but still.

[Mr. Flay]

Because I've already found the scums on his wagon.

Good. Name them, so we have more to go on. Or is there particular reason you're holding back your suspicions?

Seriously, this day is fragmenting something serious.

[Simenon]

I'll reply to those soon glrok.

If a player finds you suspicious, that does not necessarily make them scum.

Come now. I didn't write that originally, and I have no idea where you got that from the text I wrote. It was pretty obviously a leap.

Have you read your posts?

I should hope. I wrote them.

We have such all-star posts as "Erm", "/clap", and "Flay wagon please".

You have a selective memory.
I think "flay wagon please" was a good post that accomplished something. "Erm" managed to get Glrok to reply. So you haven't convinced me.

I'm not asking you to write essays, I'm just looking for a little thought.

This isn't fair.

[Glork]

Because I've already found the scums on his wagon.

Good. Name them, so we have more to go on. Or is there particular reason you're holding back your suspicions?

Seriously, this day is fragmenting something serious.

Distad, obv. Do I really need to spell everything out like this?

[Simenon]

Actually, Sim, if you think that the wagon has been productive, I want you to explain exactly why you think it has been productive.

I think any wagon is productive.

Who on the wagon do you think is protown?
Who on the wagon do you think is scum?

I think distad is town. My metagame on ergo is that he posts very long posts infrequently as town, but I don't think my metagame is solid enough. Otherwise I'd say he's town as well.

What do you think of the people off-wagon who have commented on BMQ?

I'm alarmed by the lack of comment. You look okay. CES looked okay. I'm disappointed elsewhere.

What do you think of the people who have posted but have not commented on BMQ and/or his bandwagon?

It's either
1. too soon to tell right now (I have a suspicion there are players who haven't had the chance to comment but will)
2. distressing

Either way I like my vote.

[VitaminR]

You were the only player to do that.

I WHAT?

You were the only one to go "what do we do?" instead of offering suggestions yourself and thinking about the strategical implications. All of your quotes are just people saying Day 0 could be valuable.

[Xdaamno]

Simenon's post woke me up a bit; I don't think I've commented on the BMQ wagon much.

Too be honest, I'm not seeing the vibes here. Some of the 'scumtells' he's performed I don't see why a scum player would do them more often than a town player (Apart from the Day 0 idea, IIRC). Despite the fact Glork shares my views, I think, Glork's still being pretty vague and I have my eye on him.

distad's going up on my scumdar a little. I've been watching him for most of this game and while I didn't get many vibes, there were some bad judgement calls or wrong feeling, IIRC. Lately I've been liking his posts even less, and Erg0 put it in black-and-white with:

Distad, you've voted for four different people already today, and actually went from voting Simenon (for wagoning Flay) to jumping onto the next wagon he started. It looks like you just found a wagon that you thought might have legs, so you jumped on it without going through the intervening phase of concluding that Sim wasn't scum. I think you want to just get any lynch you can.