Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over

[VP Baltar]

So, then we need the other sibling to come forward, correct Kairyuu?

[Kairyuu]

Dunno. Depends on whether or not said 2nd sibling is aware of being a sibling or not. If yes, it doesn't really matter what they do. If no, then this line of conversation is pointless. I'm leaning towards the second. Here's why:

-If the sibling pair is the way Grimmy/mikeburnfire advertise it, then the other sibling is scum, but scum who will suicide tonight, meaning that it doesn't really matter what we do with them today, because it will be taken care of for us.

-If the sibling pair is the way I know it from Neopolitan mafia (a recent mini normal I was not in but read) then it functions as an auto bodyguard, and the second sibling won't even know of the existance of the first until said first one dies. In this scenerio, there is no reason to be having this conversation in the first place, because it will lead nowhere.

[Grimmy]

After reading the new rule on page 1, this will end my speculation of the siblings..

Whoever is the other sibling more than likely does NOT know that they are the sibling.

So we move on.

the following is pure speculation on my part and take place between 8 pm and 9 pm est (i was watching 24...so im influenced )

Popcorn Vendor:

What came into my head was that if there was no night kill any given night, then the crowds would appear for the show and Nocmen would be given a ability to use.
again,
Purely speculation, but I wanted to share.

So now I ask for thoughts as to why Shanba was targeted last night, and what, if any, info can we get from the D³ lynch?

again
V/LA until monday-tuesday if i didnt post it here before

Grimmy

[Grimmy]

I reread the initial issue with Nocmen and I found information that led me to believe he is town.

Care to share what info you found?

grimmy
wonders how Kary found this info

[Grimmy]

More speculation:

someone else may have satisfied thier win condition (or part of it) last night by finding Shanba and making her leave. She wasnt killed, but has been removed from the game. This is what was fueling my questions about a Night Kill.

grimmy

[Kairyuu]

@Grimmy:

Care to share what info you found?

Nope. Mod said not to talk about it.

someone else may have satisfied thier win condition (or part of it) last night by finding Shanba and making her leave. She wasnt killed, but has been removed from the game. This is what was fueling my questions about a Night Kill.

So let me get this straight. You think that because the kill flavor was different some other role fulfilled its win con? Why would the mod not tell us and that player not leave the game if that was true? This assumption makes no sense.

[Grimmy]

Vote: Kairyuu

I dont beleive that you have secret info.

also, in the desciption it says "he found me, i have to leave" or somethign of the sort, which made me question the difference between a kill and someone else "finding" shanba last night and making her leave the game (possible that the sibling found her, which made her "lose")

Im not ruling out these notions because of the bastard modding warning on the game.

See you all next week.

Grimmy

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Ok, just read the mod's note, so I'm guessing that's there's truly not a connection between DDD and Shanba. However, there must be a connection with someone else. And I'm liking that idea of the scum sibling who will end up killing himself tonight. If that's the case, then it's best just to let that issue be.

Right now, I don't have much on anyone, except the small issue with Nocmen's slip and Emp. Regarding this last one... WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK A JESTER LYNCH IS GOOD???? What would have been if the game ended with DDD's win? Really, you're more of a hinderance (sp?) to the town than a help, Emp!

Vote: Emp

Emp has 18 posts in the game. Most of them are single-phrased, with no content whatsoever. He never does anything to back up his claims, nor he cares for that. He's clearly not helpful to the town, hell, he's clearly ANTI-town. We're at a point in the game where the remaining players need to be useful, and Emp clearly isn't. Going further in days with Emp would only makes things harder for us. His useless posts won't help us in a future, as they haven't, and he will only be a bad distraction for town.

[Empking]

Ok, just read the mod's note, so I'm guessing that's there's truly not a connection between DDD and Shanba. However, there must be a connection with someone else. And I'm liking that idea of the scum sibling who will end up killing himself tonight. If that's the case, then it's best just to let that issue be.

Right now, I don't have much on anyone, except the small issue with Nocmen's slip and Emp. Regarding this last one... WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK A JESTER LYNCH IS GOOD???? What would have been if the game ended with DDD's win?

I had faith in SP that it wouldn't.

Really, you're more of a hinderance (sp?) to the town than a help, Emp!

Vote: Emp

A jester is an anti-town role. Anti-town roles get killed. It looks like we lack a vig so anti-town roles get lynched.

Emp has 18 posts in the game.

You have two more and I replaced in after day one.

Most of them are single-phrased, with no content whatsoever. He never does anything to back up his claims, nor he cares for that. He's clearly not helpful to the town, hell, he's clearly ANTI-town.

You're making unbacked claims that I'm making unbacked claims?

We're at a point in the game where the remaining players need to be useful, and Emp clearly isn't. Going further in days with Emp would only makes things harder for us. His useless posts won't help us in a future, as they haven't, and he will only be a bad distraction for town.

Just to make it clear to everyone, Shin thinks I'm town but dislikes me so is trying to get me lynched via an absurd and hypocritical case.

[Empking]

Oh, yeah
People talking about second place: Just ask the mod.

[SilverPhoenix]

The town and scum wincons are unaffected by the Jester winning.

[VP Baltar]

In that case, Emp was correct about the Jester lynch. (Although personally, I would have still liked to see DDD not get a win on his record for such obvious jester play).

Moving on, the Emp case is the usual emp case in many games. He's useless, he's a distraction to town, blah blah blah.

However, given the theory that we might have a scum suicide tonight, policy lynching Emp in this case may be useful. One thing I really didn't like was the way he came in yesterday and effectively cut all discussion short by voting DDD. I think if the town could have talked a bit more, we might have figured out what was going on.

Also, WLC still needs to answer my question about why he didn't say anything yesterday if he really believed DDD was a jester.

[Empking]

In that case, Emp was correct about the Jester lynch. (Although personally, I would have still liked to see DDD not get a win on his record for such obvious jester play).

Moving on, the Emp case is the usual emp case in many games. He's useless, he's a distraction to town, blah blah blah.

However, given the theory that we might have a scum suicide tonight, policy lynching Emp in this case may be useful.

No, it won't because at the very least in this game, I've been more useful than Shin. So PLing a udseful player is just stupid.

One thing I really didn't like was the way he came in yesterday and effectively cut all discussion short by voting DDD. I think if the town could have talked a bit more, we might have figured out what was going on.

There was no real, useful discussion to cut short.

It appeared that we lacked a vig. Scum wouldn't kill him which meant if he was a jester (like you kerpt on going on about) he'd've had to win sometime and the earlier the better.

[VP Baltar]

It's your opinion that you are more useful than Shinnen, I disagree.


DDD's playstyle had dramatically shifted over night and if we had been given a chance to see another day with him I think we would have been able to figure it out. You made the assumption we didn't have a vig just because there was no kill on N1. Plenty of viges would hold off until they were sure in a small game like this. I'm just very much against impromptu lynches I guess. There was some minor discussion going on and it could have developed given a chance. You coming in and deciding for the town that it was pointless for the day to continue was pretty reckless and anti-town, boarding on scummy.

[Empking]

It's your opinion that you are more useful than Shinnen, I disagree.

What has Shin done that was useful?

DDD's playstyle had dramatically shifted over night and if we had been given a chance to see another day with him I think we would have been able to figure it out.

Says the main "he's a jester" person.

You made the assumption we didn't have a vig just because there was no kill on N1. Plenty of viges would hold off until they were sure in a small game like this.

If I was wrong and we do have a vig, I'll be very surprised.

I'm just very much against impromptu lynches I guess.

How was it Impromptu?

There was some minor discussion going on and it could have developed given a chance. You coming in and deciding for the town that it was pointless for the day to continue was pretty reckless and anti-town, boarding on scummy.

It coluldn't have developed and its not scummy due to it being a pro-town action.

[VP Baltar]

What has Shin done that was useful?

She has asked many pertinent questions, and was the first person on Chief's wagon. Highly doubtful she was bussing.

DDD's playstyle had dramatically shifted over night and if we had been given a chance to see another day with him I think we would have been able to figure it out.

Says the main "he's a jester" person.

Yes, exactly. I don't get what you are saying here.

If I was wrong and we do have a vig, I'll be very surprised.

At this point I doubt we have a vig, but it still could have been a possibility yesterday. How were you so certain that we did not?

How was it Impromptu?

Because it happened very quickly, imo. Day 1=9 pages. Day 2=5 pages. That means day 2 was barely half of day 1, which in itself was very brief because Chief made such a blunder. I call that pretty impromptu.

(Discussion) coluldn't have developed and its not scummy due to it being a pro-town action.

Perhaps you can peer into your crystal ball and see who the scum are since you are able to definitively state that the discussion wasn't going anywhere.

[Empking]

What has Shin done that was useful?

She has asked many pertinent questions, and was the first person on Chief's wagon. Highly doubtful she was bussing.

Why? It wasn't very strong and its likely that Noc was also scum.

DDD's playstyle had dramatically shifted over night and if we had been given a chance to see another day with him I think we would have been able to figure it out.

Says the main "he's a jester" person.

Yes, exactly. I don't get what you are saying here.

Your complete assuredness that DDD was a Jester was the thing stopping us from getting to the truth of the matter.

If I was wrong and we do have a vig, I'll be very surprised.

At this point I doubt we have a vig, but it still could have been a possibility yesterday. How were you so certain that we did not?

Noc would've been vigg'd.

How was it Impromptu?

Because it happened very quickly, imo. Day 1=9 pages. Day 2=5 pages. That means day 2 was barely half of day 1, which in itself was very brief because Chief made such a blunder. I call that pretty impromptu.

A wagon doesn't normally take more than five pages after day one.

(Discussion) coluldn't have developed and its not scummy due to it being a pro-town action.

Perhaps you can peer into your crystal ball and see who the scum are since you are able to definitively state that the discussion wasn't going anywhere.

I was being no more definite than a lot of your comments.

[VP Baltar]

I really have no inclination to get into a quote war. Nocmen is not scum, and if you actually read what went down D1 it is pretty obvious that the case against him is based on a misinterpretation of something he said.

I don't see how being assured that DDD was a Jester was inhibiting the town from figuring out that fact.

Your point about Noc being vigged holds water I suppose since so many other players thought he was scum at that point.

Your point about wagons is complete conjecture and not true, imo. It changes from game to game and I think the lynch was premature yesterday.

It's a fact that discussion would have continued to develop if the day hadn't ended. That's what people do when the day continues, they talk about things. You cut short any possibility of further information by allowing DDD to self-hammer. That's another fact, but you can continue to deny that if you'd like.

[Empking]

I really have no inclination to get into a quote war. Nocmen is not scum, and if you actually read what went down D1 it is pretty obvious that the case against him is based on a misinterpretation of something he said.

I don't see how being assured that DDD was a Jester was inhibiting the town from figuring out that fact.

He wasn't a jester. He was an even day jester.

Your point about Noc being vigged holds water I suppose since so many other players thought he was scum at that point.

Your point about wagons is complete conjecture and not true, imo. It changes from game to game and I think the lynch was premature yesterday.

It's a fact that discussion would have continued to develop if the day hadn't ended. That's what people do when the day continues, they talk about things. You cut short any possibility of further information by allowing DDD to self-hammer. That's another fact, but you can continue to deny that if you'd like.

When did I deny it?

[VP Baltar]

Sorry, should have been more specific. You denied it cut off what could have been useful discussion.

[Kairyuu]

@Grimmy:

I dont beleive that you have secret info.

. . . are you serious? The mod said,

in thread

, that we were not allowed to talk about a specific subject anymore. The reason I think Nocmen is town now is

because of that topic

. Therefore, I cannot reveal the information without risking a modkill. Get it?

also, in the desciption it says "he found me, i have to leave" or somethign of the sort, which made me question the difference between a kill and someone else "finding" shanba last night and making her leave the game (possible that the sibling found her, which made her "lose")

Another one out of left field. Shanba is in the same place as all the other deaths. If there was something special about it, I think that he would be in a different area. Also, Shanba is described as a 'Townie Neighbor,' which means he has not lost, because he wins with the town.

@Shinnen:

Right now, I don't have much on anyone, except the small issue with Nocmen's slip and Emp. Regarding this last one... WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK A JESTER LYNCH IS GOOD???? What would have been if the game ended with DDD's win? Really, you're more of a hinderance (sp?) to the town than a help, Emp! Vote: Emp

Emp has 18 posts in the game. Most of them are single-phrased, with no content whatsoever. He never does anything to back up his claims, nor he cares for that. He's clearly not helpful to the town, hell, he's clearly ANTI-town. We're at a point in the game where the remaining players need to be useful, and Emp clearly isn't. Going further in days with Emp would only makes things harder for us. His useless posts won't help us in a future, as they haven't, and he will only be a bad distraction for town.

Point one: Empking does this all the time. He would be doing it as any alignment just because he can.

Point two: Anti-town =/= scummy. You are advocating policy lynching Empking on DAY 3!, when we are 1 day away from LyLo if we're wrong. I, for one, am not willing to take that risk at this point. maybe D1 or D2, but not when it could put us in lylo.

However, VP makes a good point that you probably didn't have the presence of mind to bus Chief if you were scum, so I think you likely town.

@Emp:

Just to make it clear to everyone, Shin thinks I'm town but dislikes me so is trying to get me lynched via an absurd and hypocritical case.

You may have a point, but you are not all that useful either (though, admittedly, this is the first game I've seen you make decent sense in most cases).

@VP Baltar:

However, given the theory that we might have a scum suicide tonight, policy lynching Emp in this case may be useful. One thing I really didn't like was the way he came in yesterday and effectively cut all discussion short by voting DDD. I think if the town could have talked a bit more, we might have figured out what was going on.

I would much rather try to lynch scum today, and then have tonight be the Night that ends the game in our favor.

RE: Emp vs. VP: I think you two are just splitting hairs. Personally, I like fast lynches, and was not disappointed that DDD was lynched that quickly. It moved the game along and got rid of our friendly neighborhood Jester before he could try to be a lylo mislynch.

[Empking]

@Emp:

Just to make it clear to everyone, Shin thinks I'm town but dislikes me so is trying to get me lynched via an absurd and hypocritical case.

You may have a point, but you are not all that useful either (though, admittedly, this is the first game I've seen you make decent sense in most cases)..

Have we been in a game together where I've been town before?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Popcorn Vendor:

What came into my head was that if there was no night kill any given night, then the crowds would appear for the show and Nocmen would be given a ability to use.
again,
Purely speculation, but I wanted to share.

Why wouldn't there be a kill at night? I assume mafia would kill every night, save some lucky doc protection

So now I ask for thoughts as to why Shanba was targeted last night, and what, if any, info can we get from the D³ lynch?

I really don't like how everyone is satisfied with the DDD lynch. At this point I find Kairyuu the most suspicious. Because his stance on DDD, and how it wasn't bad. Also, he starts mentioning LyLo left and right now, which I kinda feel is used to scare townies. And he starts day 3 right of the bat with a vote on me, where before he didn't mention any real arguments. It felt a bit he hoped that together with VP's he could get the ball rolling against me.

again
V/LA until monday-tuesday if i didnt post it here before

Grimmy[/quote]

[WeyounsLastClone]

Sorry, I was quoting Grimmy's post, and forgot to remove the last 3 lines. Please ignore them.

[VP Baltar]

I really don't like how everyone is satisfied with the DDD lynch.

Do you consider that a scumtell?

@Kairyuu--Considering we have no idea how many scum are in this game it is a bit hard to speculate whether we would be in lylo or not tomorrow...of course, I guess it's better to just assume that.