Mini #111: Sonic Heroes Mafia (The fighting's over...)

[Jolle]

FoS: Spork76

. Why would we NoLynch at this point in the game?

See how this setup allows for all the information given so far to be correct, yet the symmetry of one scum member per team is perfect... it means that araltaln is lying.

With the setup you gave, there is indeed one scum member per team. However, how can we ever be sure that there is indeed such symmetry? Setups can be (and often are) unpredictable.

[MMCL]

I agree Jolle - however given the fact that most of Norinel's previous games have had a beautiful kind of symmetry to them, I would carry that logic through to this game.

Come on guys, get remotivated... please

[mathcam]

Okay, all caught up.

MMCL, what past games of Norinel's are you referring to, that have such symmetry?

Spork, how do you know that your ability overrised roleblocks. Was it in your PM or did you ask Norinel separately?

Why is everyone thinking that if there's a 4-person scum group they all have to be in the same group? I find MMCL's scum distribution intriguing, but I think it much more likely that it's distributed as 1 SK, 2 mafia, and a mafia spy (we alread know Nanook/Yoko was a mafia spy and not a regular mafia). A 3-person mafia group with a recruitably spy does seem like a lot.

Cam

[mathcam]

Whoops, forgot to preview.

Overrised --> overrides, and that period should be a question mark.

The rhetorical question at the beginning of that last paragraph doesn't make much sense. I meant "Why is everyone thinking that if there's 4 scum, then they all have to be in the same group?"

Also, recruitably should be recruitable in the last sentence.

Cam

[MMCL]

Mathcam,

Prosaic mainly (eg the inclusion of certain roles, planning of PM messages etc) and his thoughts as the game developed, reading the after game discussion) - but also in conversations I have had elsewhere (AIM chat) with Norinel concerning setups etc.. (Norinel checked my setup for B5, for example).

Obviously I can't prove this as the discussion includes roles and specifics for that game.. however - I am one of the few people to use Norinel's excellent vote counter (SHAMELESS PLUG - see N52) - so I guess you can take it that I mustve got that link somehow!?

I would echo your question to Spork...

[araltaln]

Mathcam, I think the "mafia spy" is just referring to the role-name-finding ability, although I'll admit recruiting on night 2 (or on night 1, I'm just trying to explain the complete lack of kills night 2) fits the information we have as well as anything else I can think of. (Besides, Vector knew pretty much the entire time that the "mysterious client" that Team Chaotix was working for was Eggman, Espio and Charmy didn't.)

[MMCL]

Spork - are you still with us?

[mathcam]

I was thinking something more along the lines of this: http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Traitor
for the mafia spy...not a recruitable person, but a member of the mafia who's "secretly" working for the mafia team.

This is still a possible explanation for the lack of kills on night 2. The doc protected Nanook that night, so if the mafia inadvertently tried to kill their own spy, there would be no kill. That or there was a roleblock involved.

Cam

[MMCL]

So can anyone tell me where we are now... and Mod - can we have a votecount please

[Norinel]

Spork's well within the standard prodding threshold.

Vote Count:

MMCL- 2 (araltaln, spork76)
spork76- 1 (MMCL)

Not voting (3): Jolle, mathcam, sycko999

4 to lynch.

Edit: By the way, this is now the longest thread in Little Italy.

[spork76]

hey hey im here

[mathcam]

I'm a little suspicious of posts MMCL's posts 491 and 492. The first says he's waiting for a PM, the second says he's got it. The troubling thing is that both posts occurred within the same minute.

I also wanted to point out that MMCL, our only possible role-blocker, claims to have made no choice night 2, so the lack of kill seems explicable

only

by the fact that the mafia spy was not a regular mafia, as I suggested above, and that the mafia inadvertently targeted their own spy.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yes, where

do

we stand?

Araltaln, claimed doc, seems believable in that he's the only full-fledged doc or doc-claim, and most games have one full-fledged doc. On the other hand, this game has been shown to have a one-time doc and a self-protecting doc, which maybe to Norinel was sufficient compensation.

MMCL, claimed role-blocker. Do we have any proven instances of his blocking? There was a weirdness issue with his blocking of someone on the same night that Spork double him up. Spork, you've yet to answer the question posed to you.

Jolle, claimed team-finder. We have evidence that he does have his ability, but this is of course no proof of his innocence.

Me, claimed cop. I suppose you either believe me or you don't at this point, but I tend to lump those who don't in the "foolishly paranoid" category.

spork, claimed additional night-action-giver. Again, we have evidence that he does what he says he does, but again, this is not evidence he is not scum.

sycko - claimed vig, and claimed to have killed Mojo, accounting for the extra kill last night. It's sure hard to distinguish between an SK and a vig, though. There's also a question about whether or not Omega would be good.

Number of Scum: 4 is definitely a possibility, in which case the distribution would most likely be 1 mafia spy, 1 sk, and 2 scum. Alternatively there could be straight-up 3 mafia (one of which was the spy). Given that there's only been one kill per night (except last night), I tend to lean toward the latter. If there's only 3 scum, which I deem more likely, it's less likely that sycko is an SK.

I don't want to say who I'm leaning toward voting, because that would imply that I don't have information about them, which is a waste if they don't get lynched.

Cam

[MMCL]

Mathcam, I saw the mod had just posted and so posted in thread to indicate that I was waiting for a reply. Once I clicked submit, the post had gone through and the 'one new message' thing at the top of the page was indicated and changed.

I clicked on the link and saw it was from Norinel.... I read it and quickly came back and then posted my thanks (if I was able to delete the first post or edit it - I would have). This happened in the space of a minute because Norinel's reply was basically confirming my post 486 (eg I can confirm that you blocked as in accordance with your post 486).

Hence my reply was: "I can confirm the choices (or lack of) that dragonmaster made. "

[mathcam]

I certainly agree that this is possible, but it's also a lot to happen in a minute, especially if the first post occurred half-way through the minute. I'm not saying it's impossible, or even unlikely, but it's also something you could be faking.

Cam

[MMCL]

I can't really answer that but to say I can see where it would be doubted... however... I had a one line reply... and I tend to use the 'open in a new browser right click' ... so it doesn't take long to read and get back to the thread.

(Also - I didnt want Norinel to think I was hassling him )

This is getting a bit silly, I am pro-town, but I am feeling the need to keep defending myself.

[mathcam]

What's silly about that? It's not like

we

know you're pro-town.

Spork! Pay attention!

Cam

[MMCL]

Voting to put the pressure on:

Vote: Spork

[MMCL]

OK - I am already voting for Spork...

*bangs head*

*walks off whistling*

[spork76]

what do you want from me
*becomes an emotional wreck*

[araltaln]

If I haven't made it quite clear, MMCL and Jolle are the only two people I'm currently worried about being mafia. Spork almost certainly has the ability and role he says he does, Mathcam can't, at this point, be mafia alone (so we can look for someone else today even if he is mafia), and Sycko could only be an SK (and I'm getting the feeling he's not), and not mafia.

[mathcam]

Spork, how do you know that your ability overrised roleblocks. Was it in your PM or did you ask Norinel separately?

Cam

[mathcam]

Araltaln, why does Spork "almost certainly have the ability and role he says he does", and if it's just because we have evidence of his ability working, why wouldn't this same argument apply to Jolle?

Cam

[araltaln]

It's very simple, Jolle claimed last Those results could simply be based on what everyone else already claimed.

That being said, I don't think that's the case. Which is why my vote's on MMCL still.

[MMCL]

Now - there's a change.

Also, we /could not have had/ a mafia of size 4 to begin with, we'd have had a lynch-or-lose situation on /day one/. Your entire post is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

So I get voted for it.... then you have now decided (once mathcam partly agrees with my statements about 4 scum) that it could be:

Jolle and MMCL - and you are worried about it.
Mathcam and ? - so you need to lynch the ? first.
Sycko as an SK - unlikely in your opinion.

I have to say that's a dramatic change in thinking - or perhaps it is because you are just going along with someone who is known pro-town (mathcam).. sounds like you are currying favour with mathcam.

FOS: Araltaln