Newbie 1003: Game over

[Withnail]

I'm going to see what BM has to say before I put her into L-1 (1 vote away from getting lynched). L-1 is dangerous, especially with some potential-lurkers here. I've had games where a lurker will just barge in and without even reading the vote count, vote for someone that everyone else seems to be voting on... Only to lead to an L-1. [***] With this bigger issue at hand, I'll unvote.

VOTE: UNVOTE

All of what you said in the first paragraph -- up to the point I marked [***] -- about not voting BM, makes sense to me.

But I'm puzzled as to why that led you to unvote

from Fenhl

? I don't follow how doing that is explained/justified by the first part.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

... Processing ...

Query:

1.)

Mitsuru Kirijo, if your immediate reaction to Black Mist's post was a gut Town read, why did you not unvote her?

I wanted to see a little more, and forgot to take off my RVS. However.

Unvote. Vote Elleran.

He seems altogether too eager to lynch BM based on an unanswered question to take the heat off himself. Not only that, but I see wishy washiness in his unvoting, and then not voting someone else. Why not put his vote on other suspects? Why, indeed, not me, who he thought could be scum defending scum? Consistency is town. Wishy washiness is scum. In my experience.

[Elleran]

I wanted to see a little more, and forgot to take off my RVS. However.

Unvote. Vote Elleran.

He seems altogether too eager to lynch BM based on an unanswered question to take the heat off himself. Not only that, but I see wishy washiness in his unvoting, and then not voting someone else. Why not put his vote on other suspects? Why, indeed, not me, who he thought could be scum defending scum? Consistency is town. Wishy washiness is scum. In my experience.

I made myself clear why I wasn't voting Black Mist yet. As to why I unvoted, my lines of inquiries to Fenhl were not placed because I truly thought he was scum. I was using my vote to try to pressure him to expand on his 'RQS' and to pose better questions that will help out the town.

And you're right. I didn't vote you. That is because I don't know enough about you to know whether you are scum yet. From BM's response, I got a gut scum read against her. Thus, Black Mist is the player to which I will focus my attention for now. If she flips scum, then I know who to look at next. As of now though, you are only a secondary concern.

All of what you said in the first paragraph -- up to the point I marked [***] -- about not voting BM, makes sense to me.

But I'm puzzled as to why that led you to unvote

from Fenhl

? I don't follow how doing that is explained/justified by the first part.

I hope my response to Mitsuru satisfies your question.

[Craig12]

Okay, sorry everyone. I am going to be able to post now. Sorry for being a lurker, I'll post more often now.

3. What strategy do you think would work best for the town right now?
4. What do you think about Lynch all Liars?
5. Are you scum?

3. Personally, while I'm not fond of RVS/RQS it is useful to spark discussion which is the most important thing right now. So I don't know, I just think that we just need to keep talking.
4. It seems to depend on the situation. Sometimes though it is the best way to go.
5. No

I am kinda at a loss right now for who to suspect. Black Mist is obviously suspicious but I don't think there is enough evidence to risk putting her at L-1. Also Finner seems somewhat scummy to me. He been lurking somewhat (I'm one to talk!) and kinda voted for TheBadOne out of the blue. I'll wait for some more discussion before voting. I hope to be able to post some more tomorrow.

[Black Mist]

@Elleran

- Personally I don't feel answering no without a reason/proof as to if someone is scum is really going to help anything, so why bother saying no? All it really does is cause people to skim over what you have said without much thought. Also, if everyone answers no, what do you get? Flock of Sheep?
- sidenote:Maybe I'm an attention-seeking person and want to be heard.(It has got your attention, you have to admit that) I haven't voted yet. But when I do, I want people to take notice of whom I voted for and where my vote falls. This brings me to tell you I really don't have an gut reaction right now, my gut is in knots.

@Glados

- You try sitting in a truck for 6-7 hours when you reather be at home and tell me how you would post with your emotions pouring into the words you say. Also, I believe in thinking about my posts before posting them, so if they seem forced or unnessicarily complicated, it may be because I want it to sound a certain way. As I stated in my previous posts, I'm not entirly familar with mafia strategories so I try to make my posts in neutral balance until I do vote.

- quick re-read -

I'm not liking the following players:
- Withnail: Whether it's inexperience or simply just his way of playing. It rubs me the wrong way. Nothing too quirky in term of radar jumps, just seems odd.
- Fenhl: Why did Glados have to explain it before you did? You stated that discussion is why you posted the questions, but why did it Glados to point me out before you jumped on voting me?

[Elleran]

@Elleran

- Personally I don't feel answering no without a reason/proof as to if someone is scum is really going to help anything, so why bother saying no? All it really does is cause people to skim over what you have said without much thought. Also, if everyone answers no, what do you get? Flock of Sheep?
- sidenote:Maybe I'm an attention-seeking person and want to be heard.(It has got your attention, you have to admit that) I haven't voted yet. But when I do, I want people to take notice of whom I voted for and where my vote falls. This brings me to tell you I really don't have an gut reaction right now, my gut is in knots.

Perhaps you

are

an attention seeking player. However, why take the trouble to get the attention? When you vote and players deem your vote suspicious or otherwise significant, they will ask you to clarify it anyway. Trying to answer in cryptic or overly wordy reasoning attracts the wrong kind of attention.

Yes, I admit that you have my attention.

If everyone answers no, then we get nothing. However, players like you who answer differently are worth noting. The question

"Are you scum"

was basically a question that did nothing if everyone thought nothing of it. A scum might try to come up with interesting/twisted answer due to overthinking the question.

It's possible that it was a simple mistake; I don't deny that possibility. But then again, it might be a scum trying to be clever.

VOTE: Black Mist

You are now at L-1.

(1 More vote until she is lynched.)

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Black Mist is actually two votes away from being lynched, because Mitsuru Kirijo unvoted.

You try sitting in a truck for 6-7 hours when you reather be at home and tell me how you would post with your emotions pouring into the words you say.

Tragically, my Emotion Core has been incinerated.

Could you try to expand your thinking on Withnail? I do not understand what you are getting at. Perhaps there is a particular post of his you can highlight that “rubs you the wrong way”?

[Elleran]

... Processing ...

Black Mist is actually two votes away from being lynched, because Mitsuru Kirijo unvoted.

Oops, yes. Sorry about the miscount.

Tragically, my Emotion Core has been incinerated.

[lol]Tragic indeed. [/lol]

[Sotty7]

4th vote count of day one!

Black Mist: 3 (GLaDOS, Fenhl, Elleran)

Fenhl: 1 (TheBadOne)
Craig12: 1 (Withnail)
TheBadOne: 1 (Finner)
Elleran: 1 (Mitsuru Kirijo)

Not voting: 2 ( Black Mist, Craig12)

• With
  9
  alive it takes
  5
  to lynch.
  
• The deadline for the end of day one is Monday 13th Sept at 3pm CST

[Finner]

I have been learning the basiscs of the game by reading your messages.

At the moment, I think that Black Mist might be a scum. I'm not sure about anything, tough, so I'll keep my vote and see what happens.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

We are starting to falter in discussion. I propose that everybody list their top two suspects. I fully recognize that some players have already effectively done this, but for those who have not, this will hopefully motivate you to reread the game, and perhaps doing so may also add new topics of discussion. If you are hesitant to call out "suspects," then perhaps you can instead point to the two "scummiest posts" of the game.

My top two suspects are currently Black Mist and Elleran.

[Fenhl]

[…]Fenhl: Why did Glados have to explain it before you did? You stated that discussion is why you posted the questions, but why did it Glados to point me out before you jumped on voting me?

I was already typing up a reply (including a vote:you), got interrupted by school for a few hours, and saved it as a draft. When I resumed writing GLaDOS had already explained what I wanted to explain, only better. So I trashed my draft and simply quoted her.

@GLaDOS: My top two sucpects are

1. Black Mist
   for
   the complex answer to question 5
2. Elleran
   for
   starting RVS and voting me for questions instead of asking himself

[Finner]

Okay, I'll give you all a question:

Let's think that there are 10 minutes of posting left. Someone got 3 votes, but you don't know whether he/she is a scum or not. Would you

A) lynch that person anyway and trust your fortune

B) let him/her live and see what mafia is going to do at night

Personally I am not sure, but what do you think?

[Finner]

4 votes*

[Fenhl]

It's a scenario I would probably not get into, as I almost always vote early, but:
I'd hammer them, because a townie lynch is better than no lynch. At least on day one.

[Withnail]

Okay, I'll give you all a question:
Let's think that there are 10 minutes of posting left. Someone got 3 votes, but you don't know whether he/she is a scum or not. Would you
A) lynch that person anyway and trust your fortune
B) let him/her live and see what mafia is going to do at night
Personally I am not sure, but what do you think?

On Day 1, my answer would be (A) - vote. I'm following the reasoning explained by GLaDOS here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2469397

I thought about it for a while, and did some poking around the other forums, and came to the conclusion that Not-Lynching on Day 1 is bad. So at the same time I think GLaDOS's post is very pro-town.

Later in the game there might be advantages to no-lynching ... I'm not sure about that yet.

[Fenhl]

[…]Later in the game there might be advantages to no-lynching ... I'm not sure about that yet.

Read GLaDOS' post again. She says that no lynching on any other day has the same results. Indeed, there is not much difference between no lynching on day 1 and on any other day, except that on day 1, town has the motivation to do so, because we lack any information.

[Withnail]

We are starting to falter in discussion. I propose that everybody list their top two suspects. I fully recognize that some players have already effectively done this, but for those who have not, this will hopefully motivate you to reread the game, and perhaps doing so may also add new topics of discussion. If you are hesitant to call out "suspects," then perhaps you can instead point to the two "scummiest posts" of the game.

My top two suspects are currently Black Mist and Elleran.

The two posts I find puzzling are:
1. #74 by Elleran, for the reason I explained above, and
2. #71 by Fenhl, which made me think the same questions that Black Mist raised at the end of #79.

(Hope those links work OK! My first time trying that ...)

But both Elleran and Fenhl have given answers, and my doubts aren't serious enough to make me vote for them.

At the moment I lean toward lynching one of the people who are contributing least to the discussion. On the grounds that:
a) they are just as likely to be Mafia as anyone else
b) if they are Town, they won't help us much later in the game by being quiet

[Withnail]

[…]Later in the game there might be advantages to no-lynching ... I'm not sure about that yet.

Read GLaDOS' post again. She says that no lynching on any other day has the same results. Indeed, there is not much difference between no lynching on day 1 and on any other day, except that on day 1, town has the motivation to do so, because we lack any information.

I'm not sure about that yet - a lot depends on who gets lynched, doesn't it?

If we lynch a townie on Day 1, then yes I agree we must lynch again on Day 2, and so on every day until we hit. (I read GLaDOS's post as assuming that we keep lynching townies, like this.)

But if we manage to lynch a Mafioso on Day 1, and there is only 1 left and 7 townies, the odds are very different and perhaps it's not a disaster to Not-Lynch. I'm not saying this is definitely correct, BTW; I'm saying I'm not sure yet. Is there a wiki article or something on this?

[Elleran]

A) lynch that person anyway and trust your fortune

B) let him/her live and see what mafia is going to do at night

I am sure that I'll go for the hammer, depending on my suspicions is of course.

My top two suspects are currently Black Mist and Elleran.

Could you explain why I am one of your top suspects? Only stating the names without reasons seems like a gut-feeling suspicion. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my explanations for your satisfaction?

[Elleran]

And the two players who I am most suspicious about are:
1. Black Mist for overthinking a simple question.
2. Mitsuru Kiriju for defending the suspect.

[Black Mist]

You see is as over thinking a question, I see it as explaining why a question like that isn't worth a simple answer and delve into the fact of the question is not really a simple question. It's a loaded question that deserves a loaded answer. And btw, if I was feeling simple and felt the question was to be taken lightly I would have said no. But the fact of the matter is that it is a LOADED question, and it does tie into the Lynch all Liars policy as I seen explain in the thread. There was no mistake in the way I answered the question, it's how I intended to answer it, and no.yes doesn't satisfy the mind in most cases. I mean why did everyone answer no?
But if you feel I am scum and if you can point out something more than giving my opinion on a question that I didn't take lightly and took on more philosphical(sp?), than I have no problem with a vote on me. But since that seems to be the only reason, I'm not particularly content with the situation. Not to mention everything in my personal life takes more than a yes or no answer, you can't answer a question with a yes or no that may depend on desicions that play a part in the greater scheme of things. I wouldn't just say one morning "Yes", I'd likely say "Why?"
Also, the attention given is given based on the way the first person reacts to it, and than if that reaction is tainted. People are more likely to follow that logic, as it was the first given. (back to the Sheep thing again)

And that's about as in-depth I get on the players I mentioned, I don't really know what else there is to say. Which is why I haven't voted, because I have no proof to back it up other than a intial reaction.

[Sotty7]

5th vote count of day one!

Black Mist: 3 (GLaDOS, Fenhl, Elleran)

Fenhl: 1 (TheBadOne)
Craig12: 1 (Withnail)
TheBadOne: 1 (Finner)
Elleran: 1 (Mitsuru Kirijo)

Not voting: 2 ( Black Mist, Craig12)

• With
  9
  alive it takes
  5
  to lynch.
  
• The deadline for the end of day one is Monday 13th Sept at 3pm CST
  
• TheBadOne
  has been prodded

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

My top suspect is currently Elleran. I don't have a second.

[TheBadOne]

My only suspect is Elleran, due to his weak attack to BM.