Mini 749 - Antarctic Mafia [Game Over]


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 1:34 am

Post by Fishythefish »

I think there is a significant amount to be got from the conclusions of Netlava's and Jazz's rereads. After these, I agree we may as well have a deadline.


Life's not fair, is it? You see, I... well, I shall never be king. And you... shall never see the light of another day. Adieu.

JereIC - 1 (Netlava)
FishytheFish - 4 (Light-kun, JereIC, Looker, tubby216)
Looker - 3 (HowardRoark, FishytheFish, DraketheFake)

Not Voting - 1 (Jazzmyn)

Fishy is L-1 and Looker is L-2


9 alive, 5 to lynch

-Mod

(Vote Count accurate as of Post 761)
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 1:58 am

Post by Looker »

DraketheFake wrote:
Looker wrote:...and...the fish...is still...alive...
This is honestly all you can contribute after calls for a prod?

Unvote, Vote: Looker
.
:lol: You'll never get anywhere if you keep going about things that way :lol:
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 4:05 am

Post by HowardRoark »

Out of town right now, browsing with my phone. More to come when I am home tonight. Here are some quick thoughts . . .

I voted no deadline because this prolonged time resulting in more junk posts from Looker, unfinished re-reads from Netlava, and still tunnelled vision of Jazzmyn are further reasons for looking at them and their predecessors. Perhaps we will soon enough need that deadline.

On my defense of Fishythefish, (I don't recall who brought it up) I saw what looks like scummy wagon hopping on D1, then his reaction to L-1 made me see him as more likely town. I believe there is a great chance of 1-2 scum on his wagon.
Looker wrote:
DraketheFake wrote:
Looker wrote:...and...the fish...is still...alive...
This is honestly all you can contribute after calls for a prod?

Unvote, Vote: Looker
.
:lol: You'll never get anywhere if you keep going about things that way :lol:
What do you want? Some "pretty please"s? *sigh*

More around 10:30 PM US Eastern tonight.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 9:42 am

Post by DraketheFake »

JereIC wrote:Care to expand on that thought?
Sure thing.

As a rule of thumb, I like to be on wagons with people who have what I consider to be legitimate and pro-town reasons for voting for the same person as me, even if they aren't necessarily my reasons exactly. I would take it as a bad sign if there were a lot of players voting for a player I was voting for without giving their reasons, the same way that I would naturally be more suspicious of a vote without stated reasons past the RVS.

Know why you don't know Looker's reasons? Because she hasn't posted any reasonable ones. She's deflecting the way a cocky scum would, and Light-kun leaping to her aid here makes me wonder if he didn't also express consternation over her lack of content.
Light-kun wrote:You seem desperate to make a case against him, and this charge just isn't going to stick.
You know, it's interesting. You've called for Looker to post more content a few times, but nowhere near as vehemently as any of the rest. And now you're defending Looker for no reason other than it's me doing the attacking. Do you really think there's no case against Looker? Or are you just sticking your neck out for your scum-buddy since nobody else seems to want you lynched?
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 10:31 am

Post by JereIC »

DraketheFake wrote:
JereIC wrote:Care to expand on that thought?
Sure thing.

As a rule of thumb, I like to be on wagons with people who have what I consider to be legitimate and pro-town reasons for voting for the same person as me, even if they aren't necessarily my reasons exactly. I would take it as a bad sign if there were a lot of players voting for a player I was voting for without giving their reasons, the same way that I would naturally be more suspicious of a vote without stated reasons past the RVS.

Know why you don't know Looker's reasons? Because she hasn't posted any reasonable ones. She's deflecting the way a cocky scum would, and Light-kun leaping to her aid here makes me wonder if he didn't also express consternation over her lack of content.
So, you'd suggest that I get off of Fishy's wagon because I don't know why Looker is on it?
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 10:57 am

Post by DraketheFake »

JereIC wrote:So, you'd suggest that I get off of Fishy's wagon because I don't know why Looker is on it?
I'd suggest you get off Fishy's wagon if you don't think he's the best lynch for the day. That conclusion could come from any number of reasons. One might be that you suspect that scummier players are the ones wagoning along with you. Right now you're voting for a player in common with someone you suspect of faking a species claim (at the very least end of his suspiciousness) and a player who has yet to post any actual reasoning for why she has ever voted for the player.
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 1:29 pm

Post by Looker »

i know i KNOW! I'm making this far too easy for you, Drake. I've practically come out of lurkdom and GIVEN you a case. "Look at Looker, look at Looker!" He's cocky! (even tho im a she...) Anyway, I can't help it my first vote was the best vote which is why I'm not switching it left and right. Fish is the scum, we've found him, and I think that you're scum. So what am I supposed to do? Change my vote because you want to beat me? Because you want to win? Not gonna happen, I'd like to win at least ONE game of mafia
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by DraketheFake »

Looker wrote:Anyway, I can't help it my first vote was the best vote which is why I'm not switching it left and right. Fish is the scum, we've found him, and I think that you're scum.
Right, but you can help it that you haven't provided a shred of analysis to support your claims. Your continued obstinacy in regards to providing any long ago surpassed the realm of the lazy townie.

P.S. I got your pronoun right. Your buddy L-k is the one who implied you were a man.
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Post by HowardRoark »

I'm about an hour late, but here goes . . .
DraketheFake (730) wrote:I mean that there appears to be no ulterior motive to Looker's play, just poorly thought-out one-liners and a total lack of contribution.
How about this motive? Scum hoping to slide by on a bit of a newbie card. Heck, she might have discovered a great play style. If you always play that way, and with the odds of being town-aligned higher than that of being scum-aligned, and other players let you coast because of it . . . this is a great meta to have as scum.
Fishythefish (739) wrote:- In fact, even DtF and, particularly, Howard, are possible. They both supported me when my lynch looked likely without their help, and couldn't hammer given their previous positions. DtF less so, since he jumped off my wagon at a key point.
Some facts: DraketheFake was the first one to vote for you today (463) and dropped you back to zero votes (483) without anyone else voting you. I had an issue with your quick acceptance of the Light-kun Vig claim, but had no other issues with your play. If I felt that you were scummier than some of the votes on your wagon or than some of the other players (i.e. Looker), then I would have no problem hammering you.
Netlava (748) wrote:My target? I don't like to think that I have some sort of "target" - that makes it seem like I'm just picking someone to accuse.
It's about not tunneling on one player and keeping your eyes open for other scum.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Sun May 10, 2009 7:55 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

HowardRoark wrote:Some facts: DraketheFake was the first one to vote for you today (463) and dropped you back to zero votes (483) without anyone else voting you. I had an issue with your quick acceptance of the Light-kun Vig claim, but had no other issues with your play. If I felt that you were scummier than some of the votes on your wagon or than some of the other players (i.e. Looker), then I would have no problem hammering you.
Drake's unvote may have come when I was on no votes, but at that stage it was very likely my wagon was going to gain support, very likely from all of Jere, Jazz and L-k, and possibly from you. I have to admit my impression was that DtF was voting for me for rather longer than the 20 posts he was, but he jumped off my wagon at an extremely odd time for scum.
If you are scum, then you have defended me in the expectation I will be lynched anyway, and felt you were too committed to that position to drop the hammer and/or you still feel my lynch is happening without you. I'm not saying this is particularly likely, but nor would I totally rule you out as a scumbuddy for Looker, who Jere was suggesting had no or few credible buddies.

Looker's meta leads to very limited information about her being available. When this information is significantly scummy, a lynch on Looker has two advantages- it eliminates a player who contributes nothing to discussion, and is an easy late game lynch target, as well as being likely to find scum.
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 2:36 am

Post by tubby216 »

well i am still effectively v/la

vote fish
still scumm still need lynched
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 11:55 am

Post by Looker »

but nowhere does it say anything about eliminating scum.

it's weird because you, as scum, get happy when you notice play such as mine. for one, you know that you don't have to NK me because the town will eventually lynch me, and, for two, you know that you can just spout random bullshit and i'll do absolutely nothing about it. you got it made, fish.
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

I've been prodded, and I apologize for needing to be, but real life has been absolutely brutal recently. I got pretty close to finishing rereading last night and brought my game notes to work with me this morning in hopes that I might be able to read the rest over lunch (which turned out to be impossible) and then I accidentally left my notes at work when I came home tonight. So, I don't have them, but I will try to post the crux of my take on each player from memory.

Drake: As I mentioned previously, the timing of his doctor claim is weird (read: unnecessary, unjustified, and therefore suspicious). His "case" on me was contrived and based on selective quoting and outright misrepresentation as I set out in my responding post, to which he never replied. His following of Fishy in jumping on and off the Freeko and DDD wagons on Day 1 still doesn't sit right, and his Day 2 actions in making a case on Fishy, voting Fishy, unvoting Fishy, and then defending Fishy seems very odd as well. It almost looks like he's deliberately 'following' Fishy and then deliberately 'accusing' Fishy for purposes of later 'defending' Fishy. I don't know what to make of this, really, but it sure looks strange.

Howard: his predecessor was useless, but so was mine. He's been reasonably active and his posts generally make sense, but I have to question his recent agreement with Drake about Drake's "case" on me, since it was so obviously contrived and selective. And he seems to be pushing hard for a Looker lynch, while I don't get scum-vibes from Looker, so this makes me wonder about him.

Looker: I've played several games with Looker and in none of them was she scum, despite playing the same way as she is playing here. In one of them, in fact, she was a town power role, and in one of them she was my town lover-partner. While I take the point that Howard made about that being a nice meta for Looker to have if she's scum, I'm just not getting a scum feeling from her here.

Netlava: Her predecessors both look scummy (ZEEnon for freaking out as he did early on Day 1, as previously set out in an earlier post, and hohum for replacing in and then not posting at all). Rereading her posts, she looks scummier to me than she had previously for reasons raised by others, and I just remembered that I played a game with her in which she was scum and I was a town mason, and in that game she played much like she has here. So, that's something I will have to look at later in more detail, but I don't think she's the play of the day on the basis of that.

Light-kun: I believe his claim for the reasons I've already set out. I could be wrong, of course, but his play fits with my take on him since when I replaced in. If I'm right and he's town Vig, great. If I'm wrong and he's a SK, we can deal with that tomorrow, but either way, he's of better use to us alive than dead today.

Tubby: I am not getting very much from his posts as they seem to be minimalist in nature. I've never played with him before so I don't have any first hand meta info on him either. His predecessor, Nuwen, struck me as pretty pro-town, though, so I'm not really seeing much there to be suspicious of yet.

JereIC: Rereading, he looks more town to me than I previously thought (as I mentioned earlier) and I haven't seen anything overtly scummy emanating from him.

Fishy: I've already set out the reasons that I think Fishy is scum previously, and rereading has not really done much to undermine or change that. While I do think that some of Fishy's responses have been valid, and while I have questioned myself about my take on his alignment as a result, it hasn't been enough to sway me from thinking that he is, in fact, scum. He has continued to misrepresent facts in subsequent posts (i.e. when he said that Looker hopped to Jazz then to Fishy after "we" voted for him - I never voted for Looker) (i.e. when he said that Looker "tried to set up a conflict" between Fishy and Jazz - which is silly since I was voting for Fishy at the time, which is about the biggest 'conflict' you could possibly have, and was not in any way 'set up' by Looker). And then there is the sheer disingenuousness of his post to Jere when he names the "possible scumpartners" for Looker and names Jere, me, Tubby, Netlava, DraketheFake, and Howard - i.e., everyone but himself.

Previously, Fishy went after LK, (then backed off), went after Drake (then backed off), went after me (then backed off) and now is going after Looker. All of this seems to have been spawned by Fishy trying to deflect votes to anyone but himself.

In the result, I sure hope I am not wrong about this but everyone is voting at present for either Fishy or Looker (except Netlava, who is voting for Jere and is unlikely to do anything but float along trying to avoid any wagon on anyone at any time) and nobody loves a coward, so

Vote: Fishy


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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 3:40 pm

Post by DraketheFake »

Welp.
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 4:09 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

Amazing. You respond to my last post within 9 minutes, but you couldn't reply to my prior post refuting your nonsensical 'case' against me over the course of several days.

Something tells me that you know something I don't know.

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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Mon May 11, 2009 4:48 pm

Post by orangepenguin »


When a man gets killed I never like to get mixed up in it in any way. I keep out. When I was a young man it was different...I stuck with them to the end...Let us learn to show friendship for a man when he is alive and not after he is dead.

JereIC - 1 (Netlava)

FishytheFish - 5 (Light-kun, JereIC, Looker, tubby216, Jazzmyn)

Looker - 3 (HowardRoark, FishytheFish, DraketheFake)


After the deaths of Danny and Amished, you were all on high alert. Two deaths in one night? How could that be? You pondered that question over and over in your head, but you never knew for sure the answers. The day was a long one.

They say in Antarctica, the days can feel literally like months, going by slowly and slowly. The weather warms somewhat, as the big circle shifts position in the sky, but it doesn't make much a difference.

More faces joined, but someone's face - a face that has been here since the beginning. "I am NOT part of the mafia!" screamed Fishy. Some believed the fishy creature, others did not trust him. Fishy attempted to distract you, but it was no use. Opinions changed, but it didn't matter. Most of the town was convinced.

"Off with his head!" cried one of the more rambunctious penguin children. Light-kun grabbed the rope. JereIC tied it into a secure and tight knot. Looker and tubby grabbed the flopping FishytheFish, and put his head in the noose, hanging in the center of the penguin colony village

...

and Jazzmyn took the ice hammer, which cut the rope. Fishy just hung there, dangling from the rope, until the body completely stopped.

"He's dead". Upon closer examination, you realize that FishytheFish was not a fish, but he wasn't mafia either.


FishytheFish -
Vanilla Town / Adelie Penguin
- Lynched Day 2.


It is now night 2.
Please send in your night actions before Friday, May 15 9 PM CST.
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Fri May 15, 2009 5:41 pm

Post by orangepenguin »

In contrast to the second day, the second night went fast. As the sky turned bright, you wondered what horrors could have arisen. You expect the worst.

After the death of Fishy, Looker was definitely the #1 suspect. "LOOKER" screamed one of the elders, "COME...HERE!". The crowd began murmuring, anger soaring through it.

The angry mob searched the mob, ready to lynch Looker on the spot. He obviously attempted to flee.

"Looker? LOOKER? Where are you?"

You looked and you looked. But you couldn't find Looker.


But you did find a patch of blood. A big patch of blood..and ...and ...and-


LOOKER'S WING! You were positive. He had a tattoo. There was hardly a body left, except for the scraps. A lots and lots of blood and..insides.

And the wing-pointing began..



Looker
[na85]
-
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, Killed Night 2

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Fri May 15, 2009 6:12 pm

Post by Netlava »

I believe this is lylo... which means no voting for the time being.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Fri May 15, 2009 6:16 pm

Post by Netlava »

My thoughts on everyone:

DraketheFake - town
JereIC - scum
Light-kun - SK
Jazzmyn - scum
HowardRoark - not sure, but leaning town atm
tubby216 - scum
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Fri May 15, 2009 6:45 pm

Post by DraketheFake »

Now, not killing me I understand. But Looker? Looker of all people? Did they think she was a power role, or were they simply trying to give themselves a fair fight?

Grudgingly, I'm willing to cede that the lack of second kill + Light-kun's suspicion of me all day yesterday probably makes it more likely that he's the vig than not. Other than that I'm solid on Netlava's reads, though I'd prefer it if L-k really was town-aligned so that we didn't have to rely on an SK to achieve lynch.
Jazzmyn wrote:Amazing. You respond to my last post within 9 minutes, but you couldn't reply to my prior post refuting your nonsensical 'case' against me over the course of several days.
Yeah I get the whole "strike while the iron's hot" thing, but your 'refutation' (see what I did there?) of my case relied on a lot of the same types of things you seemed to take issue with in my post about you, in which I interpreted trends I saw in your posting that I'm going to think are there regardless of how many times you cry "misrepresentation." If other people have questions I'll be glad to answer them and point them to other reading on you.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2009 3:10 am

Post by HowardRoark »

The FishytheFish wagon (bold are the votes that made the lynch):

463: + DraketheFake (1) (OMGUS? Fishythefish voted for DraketheFake in 452 while he was V/LA)
482: - DraketheFake (0) "I'm pretty sold on the idea that you {JereIC}, I, and Fishy are merely townies swept up in the tide of unfortunate circumstances and that the lurkers deserve more attention."
501: +
Light-kun
(1) "I want Fishy lynched, but if we irregardless do or do not lynch fish, I will shoot DtF tonight. If we lynch DtF, I will probably shoot Fish"
584: + tubby216 (2) "I think fishy is scum and needs a good lynching"
592: + Jazzmyn (3) (for flavor argument against Light-kun)
599: + Looker (4) "I say the fish fries unvote vote: Fishythef**kinfish and you shoot drakethefrigginfake"
629: - Looker (3) "but my opinion still stands until i figure out why i did it..."
634: +
JereIC
(4) (poor defense of D1 voting switch, Light-kun related)
669: - tubby216 (3) "since noone else wants to hammer the the fish" and reserves right to hammer
700: +
Looker
(4) ???
734: - Jazzmyn (3) "pending the rest of my re-read"
760: +
tubby216
(4) "still scumm still need lynched"
762: +
Jazzmyn
(5) misrepresentation & deflection

Players who stand out: tubby216 for lack of explanations and Looker (who's cleared now). Light-kun ad JereIC stuck with their votes. Jazzmyn unvoted then dropped the hammer. DraketheFake throws the first vote and then backs off while buddying to JereIC and FishytheFish. (I will need to re-read that portion of the day in an attempt to determine the possible motivation here.)
Netlava (767) wrote:I believe this is lylo
Assuming three scum, then yes. Also, thank you for sharing your list (although a day after I asked for just
one
alternative suspect). What brings you to these conclusions? Especially that Light-kun is a SK and not a Vig.
DraketheFake (769) wrote:Now, not killing me I understand.
Why is that? Being a non-CCed claimed doctor and not being NKed is understandable? You said that you protected JereIC N1 because he appeared pro-town; who did you protect last night and why?
DraketheFake (769) wrote:But Looker? Looker of all people? Did they think she was a power role, or were they simply trying to give themselves a fair fight?
I'm not going to attempt to out-think the scum. Why would the scum want a fair fight?

These first comments . . . in your first post of the day . . . are quite WIFOM and pings the ol' scumdar. A PBPA of you is coming later.
DraketheFake (769) wrote:I'm willing to cede that the lack of second kill + Light-kun's suspicion of me all day yesterday probably makes it more likely that he's the vig than not.
I have to agree with you on this point.
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2009 3:30 am

Post by JereIC »

Jazz strikes me as scummier on reread. Her posts have pretty much all been saying she was rereading, posting thoughts on everyone, voting and unvoting fishy, and defending against DtF. Unvoting on May 6 also looks more opportunistic now - she was under pressure from DtF and the Fishy bandwagon was stagnant, so unvoting then looks more like trying to evade suspicion.

It might be time for a mass claim. If we do, we should have DtF or LK choose the first person to claim, and then that person should choose the next to claim, and continue on like that so scum have less of a chance to claim last and claim power roles they know won't be counter claimed.
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2009 4:34 am

Post by Light-kun »

I agree Jere. We're clearly in lylo.
I think a species claim first is best.

Since I and DtF claimed, I think that means DtF should pick the next person to SPECIES claim (first).

DtF: I assume mafia figured Looker is the last person you'd protect, so through good wifom, they killed him.

Scum list:
Howard
Jere
DtF

Or
Jazz
Howard
Netlava

Either way, I am very certain Howard is mafia, but this has almost no case behind it...
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2009 4:42 am

Post by DraketheFake »

HowardRoark wrote:Why is that? Being a non-CCed claimed doctor and not being NKed is understandable? You said that you protected JereIC N1 because he appeared pro-town; who did you protect last night and why?
Because I was still under pretty heavy suspicion at the end of yesterday, especially for the way that I claimed. It's a good WIFOM game for the scum to play, since they figure they can probably kill me at any point, and Looker does indeed make sense from the perspective of me never thinking to protect him. I'm gonna keep under my hat who I protected until I'm sure there isn't going to be a tracker claim of some kind.
Light-kun wrote:I think a species claim first is best.
Agreed. I'd like Jazzmyn to go next.
Netlava
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2009 6:41 am

Post by Netlava »

The NK choice is a bit surprising, but I don't think it necessarily weakens DtF's claim. The scum may have been aware that they were leaving the claimed doctor alive and therefore chose someone who was less likely to be protected.

@ Light: I don't think you've addressed JereIC's killer whale theory yet.
Howard wrote:Assuming three scum, then yes. Also, thank you for sharing your list (although a day after I asked for just one alternative suspect). What brings you to these conclusions? Especially that Light-kun is a SK and not a Vig.
Well, I'll have to go through the thread and post why, probably sometime later. But replacing into the game, JereIC and Nuwen were my top suspects.

LK doesn't seem pro-town to me, hence the SK. His playing style is different and he seems to be a bit more "hostile." Which makes sense as the SK if he's trying to stay alive.

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