Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over

[Datadanne]

I agree with what Kairyuu said about disliking random vote stages. I dislike them as well, they usually cause stagnation, and while some may say they can do well to find out about certain characteristics of players, I think the same can be said if one just takes it the same and starts questioning the other players.

Though Kairyuu, why would you say you dislike long random phases when just a few posts earlier, you went with the same kind of random votes you dislike?

Well, what do you suggest then to start moving the game instead of the rvs?

QFT.

[Datadanne]

Current Time: Pre-Day 1

Fail.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm going for the Siamese twin.

Explain.

A random comment to follow up on the bearded lady. A Siamese twin was the first thing to come to mind regarding a carnivale. Other than evil clowns. The comment was before I read the flavor opening though, where it seems the entire freakshow is gone and killed. Makes for an interesting opening of the game, and difficult to see what we're up against.

For now I'll

Unvote. Vote: Datadanne.

I kinda dislike double posts. If it were meaningful posts I could live with it, but at the moment his comments on this game seem a bit erratic.

[SilverPhoenix]

The First Votecount

ChiefSkye4 ~ 1 (

lixyl

)
Datadanne ~ 1

(WeyounsLastClone)

Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ 1

(VP Baltar)

Kairyuu ~ 1

(Debonair Danny DiPietro)

lixyl ~ 1

(ortolan)

Nocmen ~ 0
ortolan ~ 1

(Kairyuu)

Shinnen_no_Me ~ 1

(TCold)

TCold ~ 1

(ChiefSkye4)

VP Baltar ~ 1

(Shinnen_no_Me)

WeyounsLastClone ~ 0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Fail.

Sadface.

[ChiefSkye4]

The First Votecount

ChiefSkye4 ~ 0
Datadanne ~ 1

(WeyounsLastClone)

Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ 1

(VP Baltar)

Kairyuu ~ 1

(Debonair Danny DiPietro)

lixyl ~ 1

(ortolan)

Nocmen ~ 0
ortolan ~ 1

(Kairyuu)

Shinnen_no_Me ~ 1

(TCold)

TCold ~ 1

(ChiefSkye4)

VP Baltar ~ 1

(Shinnen_no_Me)

WeyounsLastClone ~ 0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

I know it's odd to point out that I have a vote, but... I do.

Vote: ChiefSkye4

Numbers in username are a big no.

He's not unvoted, or anything, so just for the sake of accuracy, I do have a vote on me

MOD EDIT:

Thanks. Trust me, I'm not infallible by any means. It's okay to point out mistakes. The votecount has been changed to reflect this. ~SP

[VP Baltar]

For now I'll Unvote. Vote: Datadanne. I kinda dislike double posts. If it were meaningful posts I could live with it, but at the moment his comments on this game seem a bit erratic.

Do you think double posting is scummy behavior? Being erratic?

[Nocmen]

Hi.
*Blows up balloon animal and gives to nocmen*
Eat this!

Is there something you're trying to say in this post?

I agree with what Kairyuu said about disliking random vote stages. I dislike them as well, they usually cause stagnation, and while some may say they can do well to find out about certain characteristics of players, I think the same can be said if one just takes it the same and starts questioning the other players.

Though Kairyuu, why would you say you dislike long random phases when just a few posts earlier, you went with the same kind of random votes you dislike?

Well, what do you suggest then to start moving the game instead of the rvs?

Just start asking questions, like the way me and Kairyuu have done. Do you have a problem with questions? I can't move into a full discussion phase right away, but I can do what I want to do to nudge us towards that path.

[Kairyuu]

@Nocmen:

Nothing related to the game. I just happened to make that post before I was getting lunch, and all I could think about was getting food in my mouth.

I know what you mean. My lunch is cooking at the moment and it's making it slightly difficult to concentrate at the moment.

@DDD:

For disliking a "long" RVS when this one hasn't even reached a page. Talk about impatient

Is that scummy though? If it is, why? If it's not, why are you voting me for it?

@Nocmen again:

Though Kairyuu, why would you say you dislike long random phases when just a few posts earlier, you went with the same kind of random votes you dislike?

Random voting = good. It allows us to look back later and look for subconscious slips, like one scum voting another so that people will be less likely to believe that they could be buddies.

Long random stages = bad though. Once we have those little few votes we don't need to be dealing with stupid comments anymore. I'm a very impatient person, so once I got in my vote I wanted to get on with the game.

unvote

by the way, as there is no longer any reason for it.

@S_n_M:

Well, what do you suggest then to start moving the game instead of the rvs?

As Nocmen said. Questions, and lots of 'em. Poke and prod at little things until the big things start popping up. Then charge headlong at those big things until we can lynch some scum.

@WLC:

Do you think double posting is scummy behavior? Being erratic?

This.

@all: All things considered, I am going to

vote: Datadanne

. He seems to be attempting to extend the random stage when others are actually asking questions and trying to move us out of it. I've seen this behavior only once before, and it was used by scum (our mod was in that game, so he may remember too).

[Nocmen]

I'm going for the Siamese twin.

Explain.

A random comment to follow up on the bearded lady. A Siamese twin was the first thing to come to mind regarding a carnivale. Other than evil clowns. The comment was before I read the flavor opening though, where it seems the entire freakshow is gone and killed. Makes for an interesting opening of the game, and difficult to see what we're up against.

For now I'll

Unvote. Vote: Datadanne.

I kinda dislike double posts. If it were meaningful posts I could live with it, but at the moment his comments on this game seem a bit erratic.

So you're saying that all double posts that don't have meaning are likely bad and warrant a vote? Double posts are many times just neccessary, due to our inability to edit posts. And it's the random stage, as much as I dislike them, I know people will still make random posts that may mean nothing.

@all: All things considered, I am going to

vote: Datadanne

. He seems to be attempting to extend the random stage when others are actually asking questions and trying to move us out of it. I've seen this behavior only once before, and it was used by scum (our mod was in that game, so he may remember too).

I understand the reasoning for your vote fine. However, I really dislike that way you say that you've seen behavior like that before. While I agree with that extending random stage seems like a possible scum tactic, you're comment seems like you're really trying to find justification for a vote like that.

I'm seeing both of these votes as having very poor justification and reasoning.

[ChiefSkye4]

In the same vein as Kairyuu,

unvote

.

Just to contribute my thoughts, here goes:

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

And, on the other side of this argument, I don't think that Kairyuu or any of the other Datadanne instigators are acting particularly scummy either, just taking him a little too seriously.

Since it's only the first day or two of playing, accusing anyone of lurking is a bit farfetched at the moment, but I think that would be the easiest thing for scum to do in this situation.

So, to prevent that, I request that everyone weigh in (if you haven't already) on the Datadanne situation and your views on random voting. Let's get this ball

really

rolling, peeps. :p

[Kairyuu]

@Nocmen:

I understand the reasoning for your vote fine. However, I really dislike that way you say that you've seen behavior like that before. While I agree with that extending random stage seems like a possible scum tactic, you're comment seems like you're really trying to find justification for a vote like that.

That's just my style. If I've seen something before I tend to try to point that out to show where I got my reasoning from. I can link completed games where I've done it if you'd like.

I'm seeing both of these votes as having very poor justification and reasoning.

And that's your prerogative, but as you said yourself, it's not really possible to push us immediately into full fledged discussion mode where the larger cases come into play without a springboard. I see this little transition period as that springboard.

[Kairyuu]

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

The above is noted. It looks like you are making excuses for his actions, which may be scum worried about a buddy beginning to come under fire.

[ChiefSkye4]

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

The above is noted. It looks like you are making excuses for his actions, which may be scum worried about a buddy beginning to come under fire.

To tell the truth, I made the connection because I have many friends who think "random spew" is a sense of humor. And do you disagree? Do you think his randomness is forced?

P.S. If that's the logic you're using, I made excuses for you, and WLC also lol.

[VP Baltar]

So, to prevent that, I request that everyone weigh in (if you haven't already) on the Datadanne situation and your views on random voting. Let's get this ball really rolling, peeps. :p

meh.

Also, sounds like you are trying to direct the discussion towards Data while sort of playing both sides of the argument until town form an opinion.

[Kairyuu]

@ChiefSkye4:

To tell the truth, I made the connection because I have many friends who think "random spew" is a sense of humor. And do you disagree?

I do disagree. After playing with several players who think it's perfectly fine to just ignore the game and do whatever they feel like doing I don't deal well with them. I don't think that that sort of situation is what we are seeing here though.

Do you think his randomness is forced?

No. Do you think randomness needs to be forced in order to have it unduly extend the random stage, on purpose or otherwise?

P.S. If that's the logic you're using, I made excuses for you, and WLC also lol.

How so? For Datadanne you provided a possible reason why he was not joining in the beginnings of discussion, giving him an excuse to possibly cling to. For myself and WLC you simply said that you didn't find us scummy for attacking Data, and provided your subjective reasoning for why you think that way. There is a rather important difference.

[ChiefSkye4]

meh.

Also, sounds like you are trying to direct the discussion towards Data while sort of playing both sides of the argument until town form an opinion.

Frankly, he is the main topic of discussion at the moment, and a rather important one too, seeing as he has the most votes of us all (and the only serious ones too).

And what you might think of as playing both sides is just me injecting my thoughts in, because even though I wasn't directly involved, I thought I'd contribute, rather than sit back until I was addressed.

No. Do you think randomness needs to be forced in order to have it unduly extend the random stage, on purpose or otherwise?

No. I agree with you on the point that unneccessarily extending the random stage through, well, randomness. But my view is that it doesn't come from a scummy place.

How so? For Datadanne you provided a possible reason why he was not joining in the beginnings of discussion, giving him an excuse to possibly cling to. For myself and WLC you simply said that you didn't find us scummy for attacking Data, and provided your subjective reasoning for why you think that way. There is a rather important difference.

Isn't my theory on Datadanne also subjective reasoning? I just needed more words to express it for him, when I could concisely give my thoughts on you and WLC. It's really all a matter of number of words and word choice.

[Nocmen]

In the same vein as Kairyuu,

unvote

.

Just to contribute my thoughts, here goes:

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

And, on the other side of this argument, I don't think that Kairyuu or any of the other Datadanne instigators are acting particularly scummy either, just taking him a little too seriously.

Since it's only the first day or two of playing, accusing anyone of lurking is a bit farfetched at the moment, but I think that would be the easiest thing for scum to do in this situation.

So, to prevent that, I request that everyone weigh in (if you haven't already) on the Datadanne situation and your views on random voting. Let's get this ball

really

rolling, peeps. :p

I've pretty much said what I've wanted to regarding Datadanne, he made his posts in the random vote stage, and I'll keep that in mind later on, I'm not going to lunge for voting people now, but I do now know some of the voting style of the players. I'm not concerned with Datadanne at all, I'm focusing right now on just trying to find out more about those voting for him.

@Nocmen:

I understand the reasoning for your vote fine. However, I really dislike that way you say that you've seen behavior like that before. While I agree with that extending random stage seems like a possible scum tactic, you're comment seems like you're really trying to find justification for a vote like that.

That's just my style. If I've seen something before I tend to try to point that out to show where I got my reasoning from. I can link completed games where I've done it if you'd like.

I'm seeing both of these votes as having very poor justification and reasoning.

And that's your prerogative, but as you said yourself, it's not really possible to push us immediately into full fledged discussion mode where the larger cases come into play without a springboard. I see this little transition period as that springboard.

Oh, I'm not doubting you at all, I'm just saying that it seems to me you are making a stretch for your justification. And maybe I am doing this in order to jump start conversation. Instead of worrying about random votes, I'd rather ask about the votes that seem less random, like yours and Weyouns.

And I have no problem with Chief trying to get discussion going on Datadanne. It seems justified, I agree with his statement that it's always good to get as many players commenting and voicing their opinions on as many events that occur. At this point, it means less than in the future though, where events like that may occur as a means of distracting our attention.

Essentially, here is where I am right now.
I will find people scummy for trying to prolong random stage. I will suspect you if you start screwing around and getting us off topic.
I will not give up a hunch I have because someone trys to get us talking about something else, like the way Chief wants us to talk about Datadanne.
I'm very curious at the connections that seem to be forming, especially centered around Chief.

So, I pose a drastic action early on here:

Vote: ChiefSkye4

[ChiefSkye4]

And I have no problem with Chief trying to get discussion going on Datadanne. It seems justified, I agree with his statement that it's always good to get as many players commenting and voicing their opinions on as many events that occur. At this point, it means less than in the future though, where events like that may occur as a means of distracting our attention.

...

I will not give up a hunch I have because someone trys to get us talking about something else, like the way Chief wants us to talk about Datadanne.
I'm very curious at the connections that seem to be forming, especially centered around Chief.

So, I pose a drastic action early on here:

Vote: ChiefSkye4

You first say you have no problem with me stimulating discussion on Datadanne, then you vote me for it? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Just wondering, what do you mean by "...someone tries to get us talking about something else, like the way Chief wants us to talk about Datadanne..."? Am I missing something, or is he, essentially, the only person (besides myself, as of late), we were having a serious discussion about? I didn't change the subject to or from him, I just put in my two cents on

the [then] current subject

.

[Nocmen]

And I have no problem with Chief trying to get discussion going on Datadanne. It seems justified, I agree with his statement that it's always good to get as many players commenting and voicing their opinions on as many events that occur. At this point, it means less than in the future though, where events like that may occur as a means of distracting our attention.

...

I will not give up a hunch I have because someone trys to get us talking about something else, like the way Chief wants us to talk about Datadanne.
I'm very curious at the connections that seem to be forming, especially centered around Chief.

So, I pose a drastic action early on here:

Vote: ChiefSkye4

You first say you have no problem with me stimulating discussion on Datadanne, then you vote me for it? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Just wondering, what do you mean by "...someone tries to get us talking about something else, like the way Chief wants us to talk about Datadanne..."? Am I missing something, or is he, essentially, the only person (besides myself, as of late), we were having a serious discussion about? I didn't change the subject to or from him, I just put in my two cents on

the [then] current subject

.

No, I'm wanting to start a possible wagon on you for other reasons. If I explain it right now it would ruin the whole point of it.

[VP Baltar]

Frankly, he is the main topic of discussion at the moment, and a rather important one too, seeing as he has the most votes of us all (and the only serious ones too).

And what you might think of as playing both sides is just me injecting my thoughts in, because even though I wasn't directly involved, I thought I'd contribute, rather than sit back until I was addressed.

My main concern was not so much you interjecting your opinions as it was the way in which you did it:

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

And, on the other side of this argument, I don't think that Kairyuu or any of the other Datadanne instigators are acting particularly scummy either, just taking him a little too seriously.

I don't see datadanne's pointless comments in essentially the RVS as "rather important" (reference 'meh'). What is more important is you agreeing that Datadanne isn't doing anything really scummy and also saying that his attackers also are not scummy. Furthermore, you encourage the rest of the players to comment on this nonsense...ie you're playing both sides and spurring on what i see as a pointless discussion. Is that more clear?

[ChiefSkye4]

I do agree that prolonging random stages is not a desirable thing to do, but the initial stage itself is important to the game. Although, I don't really think that Datadanne is consciously making an attempt at prolonging said stage, because it doesn't seem forced. It's probably just their personality type, and I don't think that it's near enough ground to lynch or vote.

And, on the other side of this argument, I don't think that Kairyuu or any of the other Datadanne instigators are acting particularly scummy either, just taking him a little too seriously.

I don't see datadanne's pointless comments in essentially the RVS as "rather important" (reference 'meh'). What is more important is you agreeing that Datadanne isn't doing anything really scummy and also saying that his attackers also are not scummy. Furthermore, you encourage the rest of the players to comment on this nonsense...ie you're playing both sides and spurring on what i see as a pointless discussion. Is that more clear?

I wasn't saying that specifically Datadanne's posts were important or helpful at all. In fact, I don't think they were, but for showing his character/personality.

You left out the second-to-last part of my post, which then explains my call for opinions.

Since it's only the first day or two of playing, accusing anyone of lurking is a bit farfetched at the moment, but I think that would be the easiest thing for scum to do in this situation.

So, to prevent that

, I request that everyone weigh in (if you haven't already) on the Datadanne situation and your views on random voting. Let's get this ball really rolling, peeps. :p

I

did

, as you pointed out, say that I thought neither Datadanne or Kairyuu (and related parties) were scummy. But those aren't the only two parties in the game.

I wanted (and still do want) to hear from the other players. Since Datadanne was the major topic of discussion at the time, I chose that to try and get some feedback on, but I'd love to hear anything from the others, on this current situation involving myself, on Datadanne, on anything. Since only about 4 of us out of 11 are contributing, or saying anything at all, rather, I feel that our viewpoints are limitted, and that we're likely to get stuck in a rut.

[Nocmen]

Since only about 4 of us out of 11 are contributing, or saying anything at all, rather, I feel that our viewpoints are limitted, and that we're likely to get stuck in a rut.

I think you're not realizing that very little time has occured since the start of this game and now. You're assuming that no one else is going to post without being prompted to. What about people going away for weekends? Ones that don't necessarily check MS every day?

It's way too early IMO to go after players for not posting. Say, Tuesday/Wednesday, maybe, but not yet.

[ChiefSkye4]

I think you're not realizing that very little time has occured since the start of this game and now. You're assuming that no one else is going to post without being prompted to. What about people going away for weekends? Ones that don't necessarily check MS every day?

It's way too early IMO to go after players for not posting. Say, Tuesday/Wednesday, maybe, but not yet.

Since it's only the first day or two of playing, accusing anyone of lurking is a bit farfetched at the moment

Yeah, I agree, I was just explaining my post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD:

For disliking a "long" RVS when this one hasn't even reached a page. Talk about impatient

Is that scummy though? If it is, why? If it's not, why are you voting me for it?

Could be, I can assign scum motive to trying to break off the RVS phase "early". If someone deems RVS to actually be effective (and most judge it as at least the most effective way to get a game going), then it would make sense to minimize that. Furthermore, if the person who cuts off RVS is likely to set the earliest questions and direction, not inherently scummy, but the better scum gambits I've seen have had scum assert themselves as the lead questioners in a game which often gives them cover as a very pro-town player.

Or it could've simply been me disregarding your attempt to end the RVS and voting randomly on whatever stupid reason came to mind.

[Kairyuu]

Expect possible V/LA in the very near future. I'll let you guys know if it is confirmed.

Noted. ~SP