Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[magnus_orion]

Anyone could be scum right now. RVS is a nice way to see some voting patterns, but I much rather prefer just jumping ahead and asking questions to see how people reply when confronted early on, and then use that as a means of comparison if they come under fire later on.

Well, that's nice and all, but its another direct dodge of giving an actual answer to my question. I'm starting to notice a trend here.

[Nocmen]

Anyone could be scum right now. RVS is a nice way to see some voting patterns, but I much rather prefer just jumping ahead and asking questions to see how people reply when confronted early on, and then use that as a means of comparison if they come under fire later on.

Well, that's nice and all, but its another direct dodge of giving an actual answer to my question. I'm starting to notice a trend here.

Are you saying that you could get possible scum reads a day into the game just like that? I'm not going to base a vote off RVS or get suspicions from that, I prefer to see how their opinions and style changes as time goes on.
The only small scum reads I've gotten so far was PhilyEc's mentioning about how he thinks scum would post at certain times during RVS. This game has only been going on for a day, and I don't think that everyone would go and vote and post for RVS right away.
The second thing that irked me a bit was Issac's last post, but before I make a conclusion on that post, I would like him to respond to the question I asked him in my last post.

[Isacc]

Exactly what I'm doing now. Asking questions. Do you have a problem with me asking questions?

Aren't you jumping to conclusions here?

When did I say anything about having a problem with you asking questions? When did I even make anything suggestive of an attack on you?

I asked for your ideas as to how to move the game into a more serious stage. I see no reason for your defensiveness. It seems a little shifty.

Are you saying that you could get possible scum reads a day into the game just like that? I'm not going to base a vote off RVS or get suspicions from that, I prefer to see how their opinions and style changes as time goes on.

If you admit that it'd be impossible to get a scum read this early, then why would you ask this question:

Who do you think is most likely to be scum and why?

[Flame]

I'm going to be V/LA till Thursday. Sorry that it's so early in the game.

Noted.

[Nocmen]

Exactly what I'm doing now. Asking questions. Do you have a problem with me asking questions?

Aren't you jumping to conclusions here?

When did I say anything about having a problem with you asking questions? When did I even make anything suggestive of an attack on you?

I asked for your ideas as to how to move the game into a more serious stage. I see no reason for your defensiveness. It seems a little shifty.

Are you saying that you could get possible scum reads a day into the game just like that? I'm not going to base a vote off RVS or get suspicions from that, I prefer to see how their opinions and style changes as time goes on.

If you admit that it'd be impossible to get a scum read this early, then why would you ask this question:

Who do you think is most likely to be scum and why?

I'm not saying its impossible for everyone, I'm saying its challenging for myself. Other people have different reasons for finding people suspicious and voting them. As for my possible "defensiveness", I saw you as slightly ignorant in your previous post to my questions, trying to get people to open their minds and get out of RVS. Ignorance to questions seem to me like you're possibly afraid of them, because I may ask you something that lets you slip up.

[PhilyEc]

To elaborate, those who vote last in the RVS have proven to be likely scum

in my experience

. That said my exp has been a month long

Better to start from that than from nowhere in my opinion..

Correlation does not imply causation. Also, in a month, do you have enough games to really recognize such a trend?

In both of my finished games, your theory did not hold. Scum voted at pretty much random points during the random phase.

Meh, in the short experience I've had I've noticed this happening, thought I'd throw it in there.

[caf19]

Anyone could be scum right now. RVS is a nice way to see some voting patterns, but I much rather prefer just jumping ahead and asking questions to see how people reply when confronted early on, and then use that as a means of comparison if they come under fire later on.

Well, that's nice and all, but its another direct dodge of giving an actual answer to my question. I'm starting to notice a trend here.

I'm intrigued by this. Were you expecting a straightforward answer (a list of names, or something) at this early stage? PhillyEc was also asked a similar question recently, but you didn't say anything about his response. What is your opinion of PhillyEc's thoughts?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Aweh, come now Isacc, you have to love me more than that.

In fact! Why don't the five of us celebrate:

*takes knife and cuts the wrists of Rice, Isacc, Magnus, and Trumpet, letting their blood flow into my cup.*

And now, a little coffee for my sugar.

*Adds coffee and drinks; the other four are twitching, needing blood on the floor.*

Ah...my insanity aside:

caf19: That's nice and all, but at least 4 of us can vouch that Magnus is always this....eager. He expects the town to be magical and always direct, despite the impossibility of that happening right now.

PhilyEc: Your theory on scum voting in the RVS is absurd. But, whatever.

[magnus_orion]

Anyone could be scum right now. RVS is a nice way to see some voting patterns, but I much rather prefer just jumping ahead and asking questions to see how people reply when confronted early on, and then use that as a means of comparison if they come under fire later on.

Well, that's nice and all, but its another direct dodge of giving an actual answer to my question. I'm starting to notice a trend here.

Are you saying that you could get possible scum reads a day into the game just like that? I'm not going to base a vote off RVS or get suspicions from that, I prefer to see how their opinions and style changes as time goes on.
The only small scum reads I've gotten so far was PhilyEc's mentioning about how he thinks scum would post at certain times during RVS. This game has only been going on for a day, and I don't think that everyone would go and vote and post for RVS right away.
The second thing that irked me a bit was Issac's last post, but before I make a conclusion on that post, I would like him to respond to the question I asked him in my last post.

Actually, I don't think

I

can. However,

I'm not saying its impossible for everyone, I'm saying its challenging for myself. Other people have different reasons for finding people suspicious and voting them. As for my possible "defensiveness", I saw you as slightly ignorant in your previous post to my questions, trying to get people to open their minds and get out of RVS. Ignorance to questions seem to me like you're possibly afraid of them, because I may ask you something that lets you slip up.

Issac's pressure of the Phillyec question was what I intended on bringing up next, to which, you gave the response I'd consider most common. Unfortunately, you, yourself, have already cut yourself off from using this to explain your actions.

You see, if you are, as you claim, trying to see how people slip up to being asked questions like this, then the town has a right to see how you slip up in the same fashion. So, in response to this post:

I'm intrigued by this. Were you expecting a straightforward answer (a list of names, or something) at this early stage? PhillyEc was also asked a similar question recently, but you didn't say anything about his response. What is your opinion of PhillyEc's thoughts?

Yes, I was expecting a straightforward answer, in order to see how he reacts to this questioning, to see if he's thrown off base. Dodging the question does not allow us to guage him later on in comparison, which he has suggested doing to the players. In other words, he is not only dodging the question, but avoiding us from getting reads on him, as a direct result of that which he has already helpfully explained to us. (unless, of course, he intends to form a trend of dodging questions, which is much more problematic in determining his allignment)

That said, once his dodging was indicated, he did answer the question, which brings up an issue of why he dodged in the first place, as it is still problematic since it sticks with the above.

Philyec's reasoning on the RVS is something below wifom, along the lines of irrelevant, in my humble opinion. Though, also in my opinion, there is nothing scummy about using precieved trends in one's line of thinking.

That's nice and all, but at least 4 of us can vouch that Magnus is always this....eager. He expects the town to be magical and always direct, despite the impossibility of that happening right now.

I don't expect the impossible, but other than that this is a fair assessment.

[Kairyuu]

Votecount 2 (Now with extra Not Voting Section):

Walnut(1):

PhilyEc

Dourgrim(2):

magnus_orion; Flame

magnus_orion(1):

Riceballtail

Isacc(1):

caf19

Flame(1):

Walnut

Riceballtail(2):

Beyond_Birthday; Trumpet of Doom

Beyond_Birthday(1):

Isacc

PhilyEc(1):

Dourgrim

Not Voting(2):

Southland; Nocmen

With 12 players alive it's 7 to lynch.

[Walnut]

RVS is a nice way to see some voting patterns

Such as who is bold enough to put that risky second vote on someone, when everyone else is cautiously looking for someone who has no votes on them yet?

I much rather prefer just jumping ahead and asking questions to see how people reply when confronted early on, and then use that as a means of comparison if they come under fire later on.

While I agree with getting things underway fairly quickly, I know that if someone calls me out for a random vote I tend to react pretty calmly because I know that the town would be insane to lynch me solely on the basis of the random vote. My reaction when coming under fire later on may well be quite different, as it may require more active defense. Do you think I am unusual in this?

Isacc, 2 posts after a comment about dodging questions you respond to a question with a series of questions and a statement of suspicion. Do you feel that you sufficiently answered the question directed to you? By the same token Magnus- you are noticing a trend of people dodging questions- what do you think of Isacc's answer?

@Beyond_Birthday: When you say that 4 of you can vouch that Magnus is always this eager, do you mean as both town and scum? In your experience, has this approach worked well for the town?

@Magnus:

Yes, I was expecting a straightforward answer, in order to see how he reacts to this questioning, to see if he's thrown off base.

This kind of contradicts itself. A non-straightforward answer still showed you how he reacted. I think "Anyone could be scum" is a reasonable answer at this stage, far from being indicative of dodging and trying to avoid giving the town reads. What is the point of forcing someone to name names at this stage? What does it tell us about that person? What does it tell us about the questioner?

[magnus_orion]

This kind of contradicts itself. A non-straightforward answer still showed you how he reacted. I think "Anyone could be scum" is a reasonable answer at this stage, far from being indicative of dodging and trying to avoid giving the town reads. What is the point of forcing someone to name names at this stage? What does it tell us about that person? What does it tell us about the questioner?

I believe nocmen explained what the point was.
And how does it contradict itself if he ended up answering the question anyway? However, yes, you are right in that a non-straightforward answer is still a reaction. What that reaction implies is important.

The fact of the matter is that he named names when pressured.
Which means he had names, which means he had suspicions, which means he was dodging the question, which is how he reacted. Now my question is why he reacted in that manner.

I've got to go, more later

[magnus_orion]

what do you think of Isacc's answer?

Issac didn't answer the yes or no question directly. I can't think of anything he'd be hiding by doing so, and the answer he did gave heavily implied a "no."

So, walnut, what do you think of nocmen?

[magnus_orion]

EBWOP: *give

[magnus_orion]

Hey, quadruple post!

mod: why is Dourgrim's votes seperated?

My bad. Must have missed him being in there already. Fixing it now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@Beyond_Birthday: When you say that 4 of you can vouch that Magnus is always this eager, do you mean as both town and scum? In your experience, has this approach worked well for the town?

As town only. However, I was mafia who painted him as scummy (for buddying up to a cop who claimed day 1), but he did correctly identify 2/3 mafia. (Not me. To those who were alive, I came off fairly town, but even if Magnus did attack someone in that game, it probably would have been largely ignored.)

However, I understand his style of play and though I'm not expert enough to know the nuance differences between his town and scum play, I can tell what is his play style and what isn't.

[Isacc]

Isacc,

2 posts after a comment about dodging questions

you respond to a question with a series of questions and a statement of suspicion. Do you feel that you sufficiently answered the question directed to you? By the same token Magnus- you are noticing a trend of people dodging questions- what do you think of Isacc's answer?

To the bolded part, can you give the post number? I can't find any of my posts referencing question dodging.

To your direct question, yes I felt I answered it sufficiently. He asked me if I had a problem with asking questions, and I responded by saying I suggested nothing of the sort.


Also,

Noc

you failed to respond to my second question in post 52. Please respond to it, or else explain why it was ignored.

[magnus_orion]

Isacc: I believe he's referring to this post:
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: 52
The post that talks about question dodging is mine.

[magnus_orion]

btw,

hos: nocmen

you were mentioning conclusions about isacc's post?

Also, Isacc, for the sake of clairty, which question are you referring to?

[Isacc]

Post 52, starting with the second quoted part. Read from there down and you'll see the question (it's hard to paraphrase, otherwise I would do that instead of making you look back).

[Kairyuu]

Considering that it's the weekend, I'm not going to prod yet, but if there is no posting from the following players by tomorrow at 7pm EST, I will prod them:

Dourgrim
Riceballtail
Southland
Trumpet of Doom

[Nocmen]

Isacc,

2 posts after a comment about dodging questions

you respond to a question with a series of questions and a statement of suspicion. Do you feel that you sufficiently answered the question directed to you? By the same token Magnus- you are noticing a trend of people dodging questions- what do you think of Isacc's answer?

To the bolded part, can you give the post number? I can't find any of my posts referencing question dodging.

To your direct question, yes I felt I answered it sufficiently. He asked me if I had a problem with asking questions, and I responded by saying I suggested nothing of the sort.


Also,

Noc

you failed to respond to my second question in post 52. Please respond to it, or else explain why it was ignored.

I beleive I did answer that question in my last post. The first lines of my post 54. I answered that before the first one, that you realized I answered.

[Isacc]

@Noc: I see. That was not clear at first. Thanks for clarifying.

[Riceballtail]

I'm here.

UNVOTE

as this was but random.

Also, I agree with nocmen saying that RVS is good to look at for beginning scumtells.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Thanks Rice. That was the most useful post ever. Then again, I'm bored and relatively useless in games until discussion picks up, and this talk between Noc, Magnus, and Isacc is about to put me to sleep with boredom.