mini 814: OVER!

[MonkeySudo]

The lie is you have two middle names! Totally!

Very good, you want to try one?

[Henrz]

Is there any point to that game?

[DOESnotWANT]

Starbuck, why did you choose not to answer any of my general questions?

Because they didn't seem like they were pointed at anyone else but Henrz, since you quoted his post.


I have to get ready for work, but I will answer them when I get home.

I pretty clearly labeled one question towards him, and the others towards other people.

Why did you feel the need to answer them now?

I was reading in a rush before I went to work yesterday. After you pointed it out, I went back and saw that not the whole post was directed towards him and answered your questions. Why the hostility?

I wouldn't say I'm being hostile. I would say I'm playing a game of mafia, and asking you a question about an action you took in said game.

Is there some particular reason you don't want people questioning your actions?

FOS: Starbuck

[MonkeyMan576]

Is there any point to that game?

Sure, to have fun and to get to know each other.

[ODDin]

Monkey, why do you feel the need to push us back to the RVS? DNW's (my way of sayhing DOESnotWANT's nick from now on) questions pretty much pulled us out of it.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, why did you choose not to answer any of my general questions?

Because they didn't seem like they were pointed at anyone else but Henrz, since you quoted his post.


I have to get ready for work, but I will answer them when I get home.

I pretty clearly labeled one question towards him, and the others towards other people.

Why did you feel the need to answer them now?

I was reading in a rush before I went to work yesterday. After you pointed it out, I went back and saw that not the whole post was directed towards him and answered your questions. Why the hostility?

I wouldn't say I'm being hostile. I would say I'm playing a game of mafia, and asking you a question about an action you took in said game.

Is there some particular reason you don't want people questioning your actions?

FOS: Starbuck

Absolutely not. Question me all day, but question me about game related stuff rather than the fact that I was on my way out the door to work when I realized that there were other questions that weren't related to Henrz for everyone else.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, why do you feel the need to push us back to the RVS? DNW's (my way of sayhing DOESnotWANT's nick from now on) questions pretty much pulled us out of it.

I'm not encouraging random voting, where did you get that idea? Quite the opposite actually, more like encouraging a new opening stage besides random voting.

[ODDin]

You weren't encouraging random

voting

, per se, but you did encourage going back to random and idle discussion, which cannot develop into anything useful.

[MonkeyMan576]

You weren't encouraging random

voting

, per se, but you did encourage going back to random and idle discussion, which cannot develop into anything useful.

I think the current line of questioning of Starbuck is rather useless and superficial, and you don't know that my ideas of discussion is useless...

[Locke Lamora]

Hello everyone, sorry for my absence, just wanted to let everyone know I am around and will have a proper post up later.

[DOESnotWANT]

Starbuck, why did you choose not to answer any of my general questions?

Because they didn't seem like they were pointed at anyone else but Henrz, since you quoted his post.


I have to get ready for work, but I will answer them when I get home.

I pretty clearly labeled one question towards him, and the others towards other people.

Why did you feel the need to answer them now?

I was reading in a rush before I went to work yesterday. After you pointed it out, I went back and saw that not the whole post was directed towards him and answered your questions. Why the hostility?

I wouldn't say I'm being hostile. I would say I'm playing a game of mafia, and asking you a question about an action you took in said game.

Is there some particular reason you don't want people questioning your actions?

FOS: Starbuck

Absolutely not. Question me all day, but question me about game related stuff rather than the fact that I was on my way out the door to work when I realized that there were other questions that weren't related to Henrz for everyone else.

I feel that I definitely am asking you questions about the game. First of all, using an excuse such as "I was on my way out the door lol" does nothing to placate me, because 1) I have absolutely no way of verifying that, so it does absolutely dick to me in terms of my position, and 2) if you don't have time to post, you shouldn't post anyway, for this exact reason.

The general thrust of my attack wasn't that you didn't answer the questions. It was rather that you didn't answer them, and then when someone pointed them out to you, you decided you should answer them after all. This shows to me that you're trying to avoid attention, a point that seems confirmed to me when you term my even handed, reasonable questions as "Hostility" What do you think we're doing, playing tiddly winks? This is mafia.

Non-Random Vote: Starbuck

[ODDin]

Monkey, I'm not talking about the line of questioning Starbuck specifically (which is a bit too harsh IMO, but then again, I'm not a big fan of pressure tactics), but rather about DNW's original questions, which sort of pulled us out of the RVS.
Also, pardon me if I don't see how playing "Two Truths and a Lie" (with non-mafia related topics, at any rate) helps the discussion. The problem in RVS isn't the need to break the ice, it's the need to get on topic and generate some actual game-related discussion.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, I'm not talking about the line of questioning Starbuck specifically (which is a bit too harsh IMO, but then again, I'm not a big fan of pressure tactics), but rather about DNW's original questions, which sort of pulled us out of the RVS.
Also, pardon me if I don't see how playing "Two Truths and a Lie" (with non-mafia related topics, at any rate) helps the discussion. The problem in RVS isn't the need to break the ice, it's the need to get on topic and generate some actual game-related discussion.

However, more often than not, the RVS takes peoples statements out of context or blows things out of proportion, resulting in a day one mislynch.

[ODDin]

And Two Truths and a Lie helps this how, exactly?

Also, I think things tend to cool down towards the end of D1, and the eventual lynch usually has a decent basis.

[mykonian]

the circle, votecount

MonkeyMan576 (1): Spinach
Droideka_11 (1): Henrz
ODDin (0):
Spinach (2): MonkeyMan576, Starbuck
DOESnotWANT (0):
Locke Lamora (0):
Claramata (0):
Henrz (0):
Starbuck (3): Droideka_11, ODDin, DOESnotWANT

not voting (2): Locke Lamora, Claramata

[DOESnotWANT]

Monkey, I'm not talking about the line of questioning Starbuck specifically (which is a bit too harsh IMO, but then again, I'm not a big fan of pressure tactics), but rather about DNW's original questions, which sort of pulled us out of the RVS.
Also, pardon me if I don't see how playing "Two Truths and a Lie" (with non-mafia related topics, at any rate) helps the discussion. The problem in RVS isn't the need to break the ice, it's the need to get on topic and generate some actual game-related discussion.

However, more often than not, the RVS takes peoples statements out of context or blows things out of proportion, resulting in a day one mislynch.

I have several things to say on this subject. First and foremost, a day 1 misslynch is not bad per se. It is the foundation for all further analysis and discussions further on down the line. In my opinion a day one misslynch is one of the most valuable tools that the town has to base their votes off of on later days. This is not to say that nailing scum day one isn't nice-it is-but rather that it's not the end of the world if you get it wrong.

Secondly, I would argue with your contention that the RVS is the "cause" of misslynches. Rather, I would argue that misslynches are caused by the distinct lack of information that the town has on day one. This seems to me to be an inherancy to mafia, and is not something that is caused by the RVS. If you'll notice, I did not place a random vote myself, because I don't think random votes are particularly effective at starting off good discussion, but I've instead chosen to throw out a series of questions intended to begin discussion. To that point, I think that Monkeys 2 truths and a lie serves a similar interest, but probably is not executed as well as it should be. The questions should tend to be on the game of mafia, so that the player answering them is at least taking a stand on something that they might have to defend later in the game. That's why questions like "Who do you most expect to be lynched today, and why?" are good, because they lead to further discussion about the game, and later can be used to catch scum in a catch-22.

Lastly, I would say that the purpose of day one is not necessarily to catch scum, although it is a pretty nice thing when you do. The purpose of day 1s is to maximize the information that you have to go off of on subsequent days, whereby you make as informed a decision as you can on day one.

Monkey, I'm not talking about the line of questioning Starbuck specifically (which is a bit too harsh IMO, but then again, I'm not a big fan of pressure tactics), but rather about DNW's original questions, which sort of pulled us out of the RVS.
Also, pardon me if I don't see how playing "Two Truths and a Lie" (with non-mafia related topics, at any rate) helps the discussion. The problem in RVS isn't the need to break the ice, it's the need to get on topic and generate some actual game-related discussion.

The questions themselves are not really the point. The point is discussion on the game. I think level of harshness, or whatever you object to in my line of questioning is tempered by the situations in which the questions arise. For instance, my current discussion takes place at the very beginning of day one, where it is necessary to force players to take stances and talk in a very direct and persuasive manner. Scum are not going to simply pop up and say "LoL I am scum." You have to force them to.

that being said, I am not convinced that starbuck is scum, just that they are the most likely to be based off of current events, which is generally how I choose to use my vote. Information will never be perfect.

[DOESnotWANT]

EBWOP:
Sorry, i messed up the quote tags there.

MOD, would you fix that?

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, why did you choose not to answer any of my general questions?

Because they didn't seem like they were pointed at anyone else but Henrz, since you quoted his post.


I have to get ready for work, but I will answer them when I get home.

I pretty clearly labeled one question towards him, and the others towards other people.

Why did you feel the need to answer them now?

I was reading in a rush before I went to work yesterday. After you pointed it out, I went back and saw that not the whole post was directed towards him and answered your questions. Why the hostility?

I wouldn't say I'm being hostile. I would say I'm playing a game of mafia, and asking you a question about an action you took in said game.

Is there some particular reason you don't want people questioning your actions?

FOS: Starbuck

Absolutely not. Question me all day, but question me about game related stuff rather than the fact that I was on my way out the door to work when I realized that there were other questions that weren't related to Henrz for everyone else.

I feel that I definitely am asking you questions about the game. First of all, using an excuse such as "I was on my way out the door lol" does nothing to placate me, because 1) I have absolutely no way of verifying that, so it does absolutely dick to me in terms of my position, and 2) if you don't have time to post, you shouldn't post anyway, for this exact reason.

The general thrust of my attack wasn't that you didn't answer the questions. It was rather that you didn't answer them, and then when someone pointed them out to you, you decided you should answer them after all. This shows to me that you're trying to avoid attention, a point that seems confirmed to me when you term my even handed, reasonable questions as "Hostility" What do you think we're doing, playing tiddly winks? This is mafia.

Non-Random Vote: Starbuck

I'm an American and currently live in Sicily because I am stationed here with the Navy. I leave for work at around 7 am my time (1 am EST), and I don't normally get home until around 4 pm my time (10 am EST). Sometimes I do get a chance to catch up at work, but not very often.
I'm telling you this, so hopefully you can understand my schedule.

I really didn't have the time to stop on my way out to work to answer those questions, which is why I said I would answer them later on. I didn't say I would not answer them. There's a big difference.


I'm not quite sure how the fact that I would have been late to work if I stopped to answer those at that very second has anything to do with the game.

[Droideka_11]

Well, I didn't notice those question either until you mentioned it was for everyone later on. Maybe you should have bolded it.

[DOESnotWANT]

My attack on you is not based on your failure to answer the questions, it's based on your attitude in calling my line of questioning "hostile" when it seemed to me to be a perfectly normal follow up on a set of questions I'd asked. In my opinion, it's scum who are hyper sensitive about others readings of their actions, and are much more likely to label something as "hostile" and "attacking" when it isn't.

This is the basis of my vote on you.

[Locke Lamora]

Apologies once again for not being in this game from the start, I should be a regular contributor from now on. Points I wanted to make on reading through:

The Two Truths and a Lie suggestion seems very odd to me. Sure, it'd be a nice way to get to know people, but I don't really see how it furthers the game at all. At least the other set of questions were mafia based and had actually created a dispute that was already bringing us out of the RVS.

I can see how Starbuck would have missed the questions, that was pretty easy to do with the Henrz quote placed as it was. In that context, DNW's post 21 reads more to me like an unfounded push on Starbuck. If Starbuck didn't notice the questions were for everyone in the first place, then he 'found the need' to answer them later because he realised they were. That wasn't something that needed to be asked and it gives off the impression of stretching to put pressure on someone.

My own responses:

What is your opinions on the random voting stage?

I can do without it. One of the games I've played already had no RVS and quite a lengthy discussion about both the concept and the player who suggested the strategy. I think it can be useful for getting things going but it often goes on for too long and people seem to be focusing on thinking up silly vote reasons instead of scumhunting.

Why did you pick this game in particular?

It sounded like an interesting concept and now that I've completed a few fairly simple games here, I tend to look for the more unusual set-ups or themes that I think will offer a different experience. Also, I had a fun game with mykonian in my first newbie and I thought I'd come and see what he's like as mod.

Who do you expect to be the first person to be lynched this game, and why?

Starbuck or DNW. Depending on how people interpret their positions on DNW's line of questioning, I think pressure could build on one or both of them.

Who do you want to be lynched first this game, and why?

I haven't played with anyone else here so I don't want anyone in particular. Lurkers or especially brief posters (zwet, Empking, Data, for example) frustrate me, so if anyone displays those tendencies then I would say them.

[Thestatusquo]

Please read the post right above yours.

My attack was nothing more than curious probing until he termed it "Hostile" of me to do so. Justification as to why that constitutes a vote on page one above.

[Starbuck]

Please read the post right above yours.

My attack was nothing more than curious probing until he termed it "Hostile" of me to do so. Justification as to why that constitutes a vote on page one above.

Ummm, who are you?

[Spinach]

Okay. People need to use ONE account to post in games. Please. It makes the game confusing for everyone in it, especially when looking back for post reviews and such. I don't even see the point of having multiple accounts on here, it makes no sense.

I'd like to point out something:

3. I don't know, I'm hoping it won't be me, as I tend to be an early lynch when playing town.

Something about this quote.. she states she's town in a way that comes off as scummy to me. This is also her only post, which worries me.

Mod: Could we please get a prod on Claramata? Thanks.

[MonkeyMan576]

I apologize for any confusion with the double accounts, again, my main account is Monkeyman576, and my mod account is MonkeySudo, just for reference. I will try not to post with my mod account.