mini 814: OVER!

[Henrz]

Ye Droid does suck when trying to find loopholes *Cough*Genghis Kahn*Cough* and also dies a lot when he plays aggressively. But he is changing (slightly).

And the response to the Random vote... Doesn't really help...

Unvote Vote: Henrz

. Discuss.

[Starbuck]

Why are you voting for yourself?

[Spinach]

Locke Lamora and DOESnotWANT are very likely to survive this day, I believe, based on their pro-town way of playing.

No one's really standing out yet, in neither a good or a bad way...

Weird how you say LL and DNW are pro-town, then say nobody stands out yet.
If you mean something else, feel free to correct me.

And Hernz, wouldn't it be better to do something a little more constructive and not . . silly to spark conversation?

[Droideka_11]

Ye Droid does suck when trying to find loopholes *Cough*Genghis Kahn*Cough* and also dies a lot when he plays aggressively. But he is changing (slightly).

Wasn't a loop hole. I knew you were scum the whole game because of that plan.

And the response to the Random vote... Doesn't really help...

Unvote Vote: Henrz

. Discuss.

...

[Starbuck]

I did send a PM to myk because I feel that voting for yourself is against the spirit of the game.

[Tarballs]

Weird how you say LL and DNW are pro-town, then say nobody stands out yet.
If you mean something else, feel free to correct me.

Good point, but I meant their general pro-towniness; something that occurs every game. I've read a game or two with LL in them, and he seemed to act in a very pro-town way right from the beginning, and I'm seeing it happening here as well. If someone always acts pro-town, I see it as kind of a null tell, so that doesn't stand out. I haven't seen any others of you before, but DnW is apparently an alt of Thestatusquo, whose games I have seen and recall her to be same kind of a player as LL.

I did send a PM to myk because I feel that voting for yourself is against the spirit of the game.

I would agree that it is, but we still seem to be in the random voting stage, and there's nothing wrong in selfvoting during the RVS. It's a random vote, you might as well throw it at yourself.

However! Making a random vote, and not just any vote but a selfvote, 4 pages into the game doesn't help us progress, so therefore he is obviously stalling the game on purpose. On the other hand, this will cause people to vote him for that anti-town play, which quite possibly will help us leave the RVS behind. He wants us to vote him, so that's exactly what I'm going to do

Vote: Henrz

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, self voting just draws attention to yourself, which is not pro town.

Vote: Henrz

[Locke Lamora]

Other people have commented that I generally come off as pro-town, so I'd say that's a fair comment.

On Hernz's self vote: not really sure what it was he thought we'd discuss; Tarballs pretty much covered the main points. Backing up Droideka and then self-voting seems a little odd to me, especially at this stage of the game.

Unvote; Vote Hernz

Hernz: were you referring to my vote when you said the random vote doesn't really help? It wasn't random; admittedly there wasn't a big case behind it, but I did have a reason for it.

[mykonian]

as a reply on starbuck: I don't see the intention of making a selflynch, and in that case I could allow it. However, if a player votes himself because he can't take on the game anymore, that would be against the game.

[mykonian]

the circle, votecount

MonkeyMan576 (1): Spinach
Droideka_11 (0):
ODDin (0):
Spinach (1): Starbuck
DOESnotWANT (0):
Locke Lamora (0):
Tarballs (0):
Henrz (4): Henrz, Tarballs, MonkeyMan576, Locke Lamora
Starbuck (3): Droideka_11, ODDin, DOESnotWANT

not voting (0):

Sorry for not editing the first post. I can't seem to get my votecount in it.

[Henrz]

Well, made activity .

Unvote

. Even though it was a weird method, you can see who is actually looking at the thread from who has posted, which is most people, which is good. I did the selfvote because I thought we needed to start something to get out of the RVS, I hope we can leave it behind.

And Hernz, wouldn't it be better to do something a little more constructive and not . . silly to spark conversation?

Yes, but it seems to have worked none the less, I've managed to actually get most people posting in the space of less than a day, when it took ages just to start off.

Yeah, self voting just draws attention to yourself, which is not pro town.

Right, I'm suspicious of this, albeit I may have brought it upon myself he added nothing, and it seemed like Scum trying to bandwagon in the hope that I'd get speed lynched by someone else, and then blame it on them.

I'm also suspicious of Locke a tad, mainly because of reasons I stated before (bar the no adding anything).

On to Starbuck, who didn't vote for me. Yes, selfvoting indicating you want to be lynched is stupid, but I don't think it's against the spirit of the game, since selfvotes are merely voting, self voting for a lynch, as I stated earlier, is bad because, if you survive, you'll be put under a lot of pressure to provide evidence as to why you did what you did, and stuff.

Making a random vote, and not just any vote but a selfvote, 4 pages into the game doesn't help us progress, so therefore he is obviously stalling the game on purpose. On the other hand, this will cause people to vote him for that anti-town play, which quite possibly will help us leave the RVS behind.

I think it does help progress, seeing as nothing was happening, if you looked at the timescale so many posts in nine days, which isn't really much considering your own game in the same timescale nearly double as many posts have been made so I really don't see it as stalling progress, more making the progress start. And yes, it will help us to leave the RVS behind, that was my main intention, along with activity. On the contrary to the anti-town play statment, I don't believe this to be anti-town play, I would consider it more neutral play.

Unconventional methods sometimes work best for stuff like activity, which is why I did it, regardless of whether it would draw attention to me or not, I think I have explained my actions slightly, if anyone has more questions, please voice them.

[Starbuck]

I don't like your reasoning at all for voting for yourself.

Vote: Henrz

[Henrz]

What's wrong with it?

[Droideka_11]

I don't like your reasoning at all for voting for yourself.

Vote: Henrz

I think Henrz explanation for voting for himself was satisfactory. This looks like a blatant bandwagon to me.

FoS: Starbuck

[Locke Lamora]

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan

I didn't notice that he'd voted for Hernz when I did. I don't see how drawing attention to yourself is not pro-town in itself. Still got my eye on Hernz and Droideka now that Droideka has defended Hernz too, though.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan

I didn't notice that he'd voted for Hernz when I did. I don't see how drawing attention to yourself is not pro-town in itself. Still got my eye on Hernz and Droideka now that Droideka has defended Hernz too, though.

Drawing attention to yourself is not pro town because it is not scum hunting.

[Spinach]

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan

I didn't notice that he'd voted for Hernz when I did. I don't see how drawing attention to yourself is not pro-town in itself. Still got my eye on Hernz and Droideka now that Droideka has defended Hernz too, though.

Drawing attention to yourself is not pro town because it is not scum hunting.

So anything that isn't scumhunting is deemed anti-town behavior? I really don't see how that makes sense . . .

[Locke Lamora]

Neither do I. Drawing attention to yourself could be used in a pro-town way and helpful in scumhunting later on.

[ODDin]

Hello, and sorry again for not replying in some time. Well, nice to see stuff going on.

Here are some thoughts:

(1) I don't like how Locke put Henrz at L-1. Yes, self-voting isn't normally a good thing to do, but putting someone at L-1 is risky this early. Even if you think Henrz is worthy of being lynched, you should wait with it until the end of the day and get some more discussion going. However, Locke claims that he didn't see Monkey's vote on Henrz. Can't verify that, so this point still stays, but it might be the case (and the posts were indeed made at a small interval).


(2) Same goes for Starbuck, but in a much bigger fashion. First of all, there are no excuses here for not seeing a vote. Second, and more importantly, she's made her vote after Henrz had explained himself in detail and had unvoted. Selfvoting is mainly bad if you're actually causing a lynch with it, as then you're lynching the only person you know is town for certain. And this is indeed a bad thing to do. However, it's pretty obvious that Henrz doesn't want himself actually lynched, and that he was trying to generate activity. So, Starbuck, why do you vote him? Do you think his actions are more likely to come from scum than they are from town? If so, you don't say why this is so. ("I think you're lying" isn't, in itself, a reason, because you can't know if he's lying or not. You need to tell us why it's more likely he's scum than town based on his actions. And "I don't like what you're saying" is even less of a decent reason. I don't like many things as well.)
For all of this,

vote: Starbuck

That being said, I still don't think DNW's reasons for voting her are valid, and they aren't being brought into consideration here.


(3) Where did DNW disappear? Also, it is, in retrospect, quite odd that DNW didn't actually answer her own questions. One would expect to begin by providing her own answers, or at least provide them at some point during the game.


(4)

Other people have commented that I generally come off as pro-town, so I'd say that's a fair comment.

I don't like this. You're basically patting your own back here.

[Starbuck]

I don't think that self-voting should be used EVER. That's why I voted Henrz.

[ODDin]

So, you're going for a policy lynch. Him being at L-1, it means someone could hammer him and end D1 after 4 pages of discussion - a disastrous thing for the town.
Even if you think Henrz should be policy lynched, I'd expect you to just say this, without actually voting for him.

Also, why do you think self voting should never, EVER, be used? Why does it go against the spirit of the game? I mean, he

did

get this thing going somewhere, which is a good thing.

[MonkeySudo]

Neither do I. Drawing attention to yourself could be used in a pro-town way and helpful in scumhunting later on.

Scumhunting is pro-town. Not scum-hunting is anti-town. It's pretty simple.

I'm suspicious of anyone who thinks self-voting is pro-town generally.

[Starbuck]

The goal of this game is not to vote for yourself. It's to decipher and solve and find out who the scummiest people are.

Voting for yourself is anti-town. It's a stance I will always take because it is against the spirit of the game.

[Spinach]

The goal of this game is not to vote for yourself. It's to decipher and solve and find out who the scummiest people are.

Voting for yourself is anti-town. It's a stance I will always take because it is against the spirit of the game.

But voting himself stimulated discussion; stimulating discussion helps us find scum, so self-voting (in this situation) is pro-town.

Neither do I. Drawing attention to yourself could be used in a pro-town way and helpful in scumhunting later on.

Scumhunting is pro-town. Not scum-hunting is anti-town. It's pretty simple.

I'm suspicious of anyone who thinks self-voting is pro-town generally.

So by your rules, I should FoS everyone for random voting because it is not scumhunting, because doing anything other than scumhunting is anti-town, and FoS you because you wanted to play two truths and a lie, which is certainly not scumhunting.

And I'd like to re-emphasize something I said earlier:

Okay. People need to use ONE account to post in games. Please. It makes the game confusing for everyone in it, especially when looking back for post reviews and such. I don't even see the point of having multiple accounts on here, it makes no sense.

Also-also: I've 'prodded' DNW.

[Henrz]

The goal of this game is not to vote for yourself. It's to decipher and solve and find out who the scummiest people are.

Voting for yourself is anti-town. It's a stance I will always take because it is against the spirit of the game.

But voting himself stimulated discussion; stimulating discussion helps us find scum, so self-voting (in this situation) is pro-town.

Exactly!
Ok, generally I would agree with you Starbuck, voting for yourself is generally bad, but in this case it has basically kickstarted the game and lead to discussion because of a single action. Ask yourself, what do you think would've happened if I didn't self vote, if we just continued with nothing happening, desperately trying to start something without doing anything drastic. That would be against the spirit of the game, because there would be no game to have the spirit for (if that makes sense ). That's why I said selfvoting is a very neutral thing, it can be used for both bad and good.

(3) Where did DNW disappear? Also, it is, in retrospect, quite odd that DNW didn't actually answer her own questions. One would expect to begin by providing her own answers, or at least provide them at some point during the game.

I'd call that ironic, but yeah, we should get her to answer her own questions seeing as we've all answered them ourselves.