Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Lol, your first assertion doesn't make sense. Please clarify. If you can convince me, i might string myself up.

So, who would think of hasgafads as a key lobotomy point?

Anyone who played with him before and liked his play.

If you've done your research, you'll have a good indication that the latter point doesn't apply to me. I'm a lil disappointed.

but truth is, I probably would've killed Alex or an EM player. Maybe Kai instead.

truth is? Oh dear, it's starting again!

BM

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (3): Zachrulez, GIEFF, Battle Mage
jammer (2): Kairyuu, SensFan
GIEFF (2): jammer, camn
Battle Mage (1): Mastin
broomhead (1): alexhans
Cephrir (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro


Not Voting: Cephrir, VP Baltar, broomhead, SpyreX, Benmage

8 to lynch

[Battle Mage]

You must rate his play pretty highly if you think that anyone that knew him would have killed him instantly.

Not necessarily. It could be a revenge kill. It could be someone that HASCOW is particularly good at reading....

It could be a lot of things.

"could" isnt a particularly useful word in this instance. If you want to make a case based solely on Kill WIFOM, i'm saying you should at least research all the contingencies properly.

Do YOU think anyone fits yours?

Why not let Mastin defend himself?

BM

[camn]

Your statement was logically flawed.

And yes, VP fits my theory on the nightkill.
But I don't think it is enough for a lynch.

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

[Battle Mage]

Look for who would kill the cow.

^^this.

I don't think Hascow was killed for lobotomy. . . no offense intended, but there are some pretty heavy hitters on the playerlist.
Unless they are ALL scum, I think hascow was picked for a different reason.

VP? what is your opinion of Hascow as a player?

Haha, you're including urself as a heavy hitter, amirite? xD

Mastin, are you still happy with your vote for BM?

why wouldnt he be? Mastin loves random voting.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Your statement was logically flawed.

Good spot! /sarcasm

In all seriousness, whilst my statement obviously was not entirely accurate, it was quite clearly an accurate representation of the stance Mastin has assumed. I still dont really see why you appear to be trying to bail him out here...

If he wants to make a case on WIFOM grounds, let him research it properly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote:

Still not liking any of the Jammer votes. Gieff's doesn't stand out anymore though, and his position seems reasonable.

Post 6

and

Post 10

These posts establish an attempt by Mastin to both clear himself based on the nightkill and gather scum suspects based on the nightkill.

Like Sensfan pointed out not too far back in the game, what's up with all this nightkill speculation?

Control of the game based on the nightkill seems to be Mastin's motive, and I'm happy to put a vote on him. (I'm clear! But these people are scummy because they know Has!)

Vote: Mastin

do you know Has?

Vote

BM

self vote? lol

BM

[Benmage]

Alrighty then, here’s my catchup post from whats been posted thus far. It’s done chronologically so if the start of my posts feelings shift by the end, so be it.

However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.

It is an interesting attempt Mastin could be employing here as scum. Especially as he so justly declared how he would have acted. But if he really was scum, wouldn’t acting the way one would expect you to act be illogical while acting in contrast to the predictable action be most rational.

Im glad... but people should still vote eventually... For a reason... but vote. We can not afford lurkers (active or not) or inactivity...

QFT, beautiful. I despise all lurkers.

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Besides that, why is the kill of hascow so special?

Because, why would hascow be killed? There has to be a reason. And that reason means that the person who killed hascow probably knew him.

More common scum kills would be people like Sensfan, Kai, myself, maybe Alex, etc.

Not hascow.

Only becouse some didn't play with her and wouldn't kill becouse of that?

Him. Him.
And, yes. They wouldn't kill hascow because of that.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a fact

Wrong, he said “believable truth”, twisting of words is scummy.

I think the second explanation is far likelier, and hence, my vote. Unless jammer has another townie-based reason to so readily assume 4 scum.

Yeah I do. In most games of 9 (newbie setups) we have a 7-2 ratio. In many mini normals we have 12 with a 9-3 ratio. From the newbie setup to the mini normal we gained 3 players, 2 town and 1 scum. Now in this game we have no powerroles and a free NK, N0 for scum. So even though we started with 16 players we really only get to play with 15. That’s a 3 person increase from mini normals. Using the same town-scum ratio we can assume an addition 2 townies and 1 scum. That 16th player is probably town to be used as slaughter ….So assuming 4 scum in this game seems most logical. I could understand only 3 scum since we have no powerroles, but 5 seems way to many.

Could you say what sounds like a reasenable amount, if that is incorrect.

But the reasonableness of the assumption is just a secondary point. Where you messed up, jammer, is in revealing that you KNOW how many scum there are - you are not guessing. Scum know how many scum there are, and town don't. This is simple.

Geeze, I don’t think he did. He used Alex’s interpretation anyways and you’re getting hung up on semantics where you misquote to begin with, but he states it as believable truth.
Interpret this:
Fact: There are 3 scum in this game.
Fact: There are 4 scum in this game.
Fact: There are 5 scum in this game.

I said it is reasonable. I did not proceed as if it was fact, as you did. I know you understand the difference.

He said believable, stop misquoting. I don’t see the biggest difference between ‘reasonable’ and ‘believable’.

I don't think jammer slipped up, especially given that there probably aren't 4 scum.

3 does seem to be making more sense.

@Post 45, Zach…no need to quote the whole thing, but awesome and well done.

Can you give your reasoning as to why "3 scum tends to make a lot more sense in this type of setup?"

Didn’t he state this, or others at least. The answer seems so glaringly obvious why ask such a stupid question. Didn’t you even provide the mathematics behind it suggesting 3 scum with no powerroles would be most balanced…
Well looks like post 52 answers it anyways.

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

Benmage's vote not counted, because I don't know who he's trying to vote for.

It was a joke, because of your other post specifically stating not to do it. I’m sorry. Also “vote” wasn’t even bolded, that was to make it not count.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Vote: Ben

Clearly a wannabe mage.

Oh this game is going to be fun.

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

[Battle Mage]

2 scum in a 16 player game, is ridiculous.

BM

[Benmage]

t;]Vote

BM

self vote? lol

Joke vote

[GIEFF]

Wrong, he said “believable truth”, twisting of words is scummy.

Look at the chronology. I twisted no words.

Still doesn't eliminate the fact that one of the people who knows him had to have killed him.

With 4 scum

, you're trying to find out what one of them would kill. Include a wifom-kill argument, and we got little if anything to find mafia on. It sounds pretty random to me.

jammer, how many scum do you think there are in this game? Why?

Scum amount according to alexhans. He said 4 and I took it as a believable truth. I think 4 would fit well with 16 players.

He only used the words "believable truth" once I questioned him about it. What got me suspicious was when he just went forward assuming there are 4 scum in the game, especially when I thought a 4-scum game was a possibility, even if unlikely. His later use of the words "believable truth" do not change the fact that he stated "with 4 scum" as if it were fact.

You may think it is just semantics, but in this game, words are all we have, and the way they are used reveals a lot about what their owners think.

-----

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

Buddying is buddying, even if you try to hide it by also throwing in a toothless vote.

[camn]

Haha, you're including urself as a heavy hitter, amirite? xD

Of course not!
>

I

< am a soft touch.
But I certainly put YOU in that category!

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

What does staring at me have to do with voting Mastin ??

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

Buddying is buddying, even if you try to hide it by also throwing in a toothless vote.

We will see how toothless it is when you hang, old friend..

[Battle Mage]

Alrighty then, here’s my catchup post from whats been posted thus far. It’s done chronologically so if the start of my posts feelings shift by the end, so be it.

However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.

It is an interesting attempt Mastin could be employing here as scum. Especially as he so justly declared how he would have acted. But if he really was scum, wouldn’t acting the way one would expect you to act be illogical while acting in contrast to the predictable action be most rational.

Im glad... but people should still vote eventually... For a reason... but vote. We can not afford lurkers (active or not) or inactivity...

QFT, beautiful. I despise all lurkers.

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Besides that, why is the kill of hascow so special?

Because, why would hascow be killed? There has to be a reason. And that reason means that the person who killed hascow probably knew him.

More common scum kills would be people like Sensfan, Kai, myself, maybe Alex, etc.

Not hascow.

Only becouse some didn't play with her and wouldn't kill becouse of that?

Him. Him.
And, yes. They wouldn't kill hascow because of that.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

You'd like that wouldnt you? Tell me, are you just going to take everything Mastin says at face value, or are you actually intending to pretend you want to scumhunt for yourself?

I dont have any idea why you have quoted those 2 posts otherwise.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Haha, you're including urself as a heavy hitter, amirite? xD

Of course not!
>

I

< am a soft touch.
But I certainly put YOU in that category!

Lmao, quit it now, you're making me blush. xD

BM

[Benmage]

Wrong, he said “believable truth”, twisting of words is scummy.

Look at the chronology. I twisted no words.

Oh reh-heally.

Jul 9, 2009 2:15 a.m. Post 27:

jammer, how many scum do you think there are in this game? Why?

Jul 09, 2009 2:28 am Post 29:

Scum amount according to alexhans. He said 4 and I took it as a believable truth. I think 4 would fit well with 16 players.

Let’s review. The first post after your question he says:

believable truth

Jul 09, 2009 2:43 am Post 32:

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a fact, not as a guess, and without any reasoning presented. I don't know why a townie would just take a wild guess another player made as "believable truth."

Now, I don’t know how you read..right to left, left to right, down up, top bottom w/e. But I read right to left top to bottom.
Let’s review.

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a

fact

Where??
Yada yada yada

"believable truth."

Back to the beginning:

Look at the chronology. I twisted no words.

Chronologically you stated he said it as Fact. He never uses the word fact. Hence you twisted words.

[Benmage]

You'd like that wouldnt you? Tell me, are you just going to take everything Mastin says at face value, or are you actually intending to pretend you want to scumhunt for yourself?

I dont have any idea why you have quoted those 2 posts otherwise.

BM

Clearly mastin has said much more than those two posts. My point is in following his and others points regarding those who have a history with this first kill. The conclusion of that evidence indicates you have the most history.

Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

[GIEFF]

And you say I am the one getting bogged down in semantics?

Chronologically you stated he said it as Fact. He never uses the word fact. Hence you twisted words.

Do you or do you not feel that jammer assumed there were four scum? Regardless of whether you want to call it truth or a fact, the point is that jammer assumed there were 4 scum, and THAT is what I found scummy - the unquestioning assumption.

I have explained why I found that scummy at the time, and I have explained why I no longer find it as scummy. If there is something you would like me to clarify, I would be happy to. But I did not misrepresent anything jammer said in order to inform my vote.

[Benmage]

What does staring at me have to do with voting Mastin ??

That was just an extra extension in the quote…unnecessary my mistake. I was throwing the “stare” at you trying to policy lynch Gieff for his “awesomeness” it just made me chuckle to myself and think of school yard kids going “damn, go suck his dick or something”

And you say I am the one getting bogged down in semantics?

Chronologically you stated he said it as Fact. He never uses the word fact. Hence you twisted words.

Oh totally, lol.. I went off I’m sitting bored at a computer right now.

Do you or do you not feel that jammer assumed there were four scum? Regardless of whether you want to call it truth or a fact, the point is that jammer assumed there were 4 scum, and THAT is what I found scummy - the unquestioning assumption.

I have explained why I found that scummy at the time, and I have explained why I no longer find it as scummy. If there is something you would like me to clarify, I would be happy to. But I did not misrepresent anything jammer said in order to inform my vote.

Not at all, it’s fine. In my chronological catch-up post I was just disagreeing with your point of view. No clarification needed.

[Zachrulez]

Unvote:

Still not liking any of the Jammer votes. Gieff's doesn't stand out anymore though, and his position seems reasonable.

Post 6

and

Post 10

These posts establish an attempt by Mastin to both clear himself based on the nightkill and gather scum suspects based on the nightkill.

Like Sensfan pointed out not too far back in the game, what's up with all this nightkill speculation?

Control of the game based on the nightkill seems to be Mastin's motive, and I'm happy to put a vote on him. (I'm clear! But these people are scummy because they know Has!)

Vote: Mastin

do you know Has?

I've played with Has once. He replaced into a game I was playing. I was town, he was scum.

[alexhans]

Cause I wrote that post and was researching the profiles of the players... and found DDD had been active AFTER Yaw's 1st post... so I went back to the thread and found your posts...

...You were looking at all of our latest posts? <_<

I was.

Kairyuu's #20: interesting addition. I was thinking under the same lines. It may not be valid to lynch someone on the premise that he killed Hascow if he is not bold enough to convince his scumteam.

Mastin you plan using meta to see who killed the cow, while you already made clear scum can easily wifom the meta. With that, there only has to be one that played with hascow, to know him and kill him. You think(and others?) talking about meta, is a better way to find scum, then simple scumhunting?

You suggest we ignore the kill?
How's this simple scumhunting:

Ignores the supposed killing of RVS of Mastin.

Vote: SensFan

For replacing out in comfirmation stage in my other game.

You want us back in the RVS? What are you trying to make out of this?

Yaw #25:
From now on the short forms are:
Battle Mage = BM
SensFan = SF
alexhans = Alex
GIEFF = GIEFF
Cephrir = Ceph
VP Baltar = VP
Debonair Danny DiPietro = DDD
Kairyuu = Kai
camn = Camn
broomhead = Broom
SpyreX = Spy
Zachrulez = Zach
Benmage = Ben
Mastin = Mastin
jammer = Jam
hasdgfas = Hascow

Do we all agree? So we can easyly use Ctrl-f to look for a name OR short form? Remember, It all helps the town.

#Jammer's 26: what's your Conclusion? Are you scumhunting? Is mastin?

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

@GIEFF: As the inventor of the thoery I also found weird the way in wich jammer worded this:

With 4 scum, you're trying to find out what one of them would kill. Include a wifom-kill argument, and we got little if anything to find mafia on. It sounds pretty random to me.

Sounded matter of factly. But we'll see.
@jammer: EM != MS... Chat games are open for varying tactics... MS are a bit more constrained because you play fewer games...

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

I don't think jammer slipped up, especially given that there probably aren't 4 scum.

Excuse me? Why not?

So if there's 4 scum, isn't it actually 3 mislynches max? Since a 4th would be a scum win?

Yes Kai, My bad. 3 Mislynches is all we get.

That seems unbalanced to me. Especially given that town has no power roles.

No is not. Why is 3 mislynches unbalanced? Town should find scum... 3 day should be lylo if town sucks that much...
---------
Until here, I was writing after midday (GMT - 3) from here onwards, I'm catching up. Didn't get to read everything so I didn't post at the time... wich was a huge mistake because now you have a LONG post to read... SOrry...
---------
by the way...

Sensfan is scum because he is still alive...

Just kidding...

jammer, if you read the site/my sig at the time, you would have known I was forced out of that game. So I'm going with a

Vote" jammer

Is this a joke vote? Are you voting a player who is on the spotlight for what reasons exactly? Are you going to be as combative as ever? Are we gonna end up fighting?

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

I agree with this.

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

mmmm... I knew it...

Sensfan...
Discussing, stating our opinions = Healthy
Shutting the fuck up = NOT healthy

#50 @GIEFF: My analysys of the amount of scum in a game is usually related to the number of mislynches that town is allowed to have before losing. 3/4 mislynches is a good enough chance for town. And, as you say, when there's a scum lynch, there's a LOT of information to go on with.

Also... If I were a mod... 2 scum among so many town players would be boring...

Vote

BM

Why?

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's

becoming quite apparent

that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

Don't be so sure.

DO NOT DISCARD 4 scumteam. It may bite us in the ass if we mislynch thrice.

I feel reasonably safe in calling you as town.

Do not count your townies until they flip... Remember Steph?

DDD: THIS is the time to speculate about deaths... later on, we wont be able because scum may choose to wifom. But right now. I'm sure it counts for something.

Cephrir expects three or four scum, says we should assume four scum because of that possibility. And then concludes by stating there probably aren't four scum. While these statements are completely contradictory they certainly don't look good to me.

Good point. It sounded weird to me too.

@Camn: I like you... and I DONT like you at the same time... How's that possible? Acting crazy helps your meta? Try to help town...

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.

I'm too.

I think that he is the kind of player that, AS SCUM, given a night 0, he would choose to eliminate someone that he thought might be a detriment to the gameplay as a whole. Like a lurker, or someone who might replace out... or someone he thought was "mediocre".
He has that kind of integrity.

I disagree... Look at mafia 91.

#69 GIEFF? Why Mastin?

BM... YOUR #71 is much more scummy than anything you might pretend Mastin is... Hoping on a waggon just like that? Mastin is an active and great player IMO and that's just his style. He was amongst the first people to post and he completely destroyed RVS (First time I've seen this) making this game really interesting from the get go. I think that your move is odd and opportunistic.

I don't get what's wrong with discussing the NK as long as we aren't ridiculously serious about it. I would never lynch based on something like that and I don't think anyone else will either, so why not talk about it? And it did a fine job getting this game off to a quick start.

QFT

Smells....town. But i dont get the fixation with namedropping players you know. It ain't cool, and it ain't productive. Whoever did the italicising and underlining thing at least actually achieved something.

dude... you dissapoint me... One post and you already have an opinion of allignment... I was just following Mastin's idea wich I though cool and Kai made it cooler. If you're not helping don't criticize. I'm not calling anyone town until I'm REALLY convinced they are town... and event then... I will still watch them closely.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Why do I get the feeling that you and Sensfan felt really threatened by Mastin's posts? Can't you just debate the points?

I feel the need to remember this again... DONT RULE OUT 4 scum. We don't want to find out the wrong way. I'll have to do some research about 3:13 to see if it's more balanced or what but I still think that we should thing about the WCS.
--------------

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Doesn't this 2 quotes contradict themselves? In the SAME post?

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof. It doesn't rule him out. He provided a way to start the game.
-----------------------

TL,DR:

- Shortforms guide.
- If there's 4 scum we get 3 mislynches, not 4
- Mastin's waggon is WEIRD and lacks of sufficient reason.
- Benmage gets a FOS.

FoS Benmage

- Read it... there's a lot of nit pick questions that cannot be TlDr'd

PS: I don't know if Kai answered this but I can't avoid doing it...

Kairyuu, what pro-town reason is there for listing the players you think that scum should kill?

err... finding scum?

[Zachrulez]

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's

becoming quite apparent

that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

Don't be so sure.

DO NOT DISCARD 4 scumteam. It may bite us in the ass if we mislynch thrice.

Not discarding it completely. Filing it into the highly unlikely category.

I feel reasonably safe in calling you as town.

Do not count your townies until they flip... Remember Steph?

*Cringes.* I still blame Hoopla for that loss... Ryan and Steph were my top suspects and I didn't realize it was lylo. Still, I was a big factor in preventing Steph's lynch early on.

There were other factors that blinded me to Stephoscope. I've had this problem with a few specific players. It is something I have somewhat recently started to beat out of my play style.

Point taken however...

[Cephrir]

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof.

It doesn't rule him out.

He provided a way to start the game.

Mastin begs to differ.

Has wouldn't be my choice with players I know; you can auto-clear me from picking the kill, as I would definitely try to lead as mafia and would have to be overridden by someone who I respect highly as a player and recognize the skill of to not nk another pro-town player.

Now I'm not sure whether this was entirely serious or not, but if it was... yeah. Incidentally, it's also suspicious if it was entirely serious.

[camn]

@Camn: I like you... and I DONT like you at the same time... How's that possible? Acting crazy helps your meta? Try to help town...

I had a problem with getting nightkilled right away all the time.
It was less fun for me.
But don't worry.. I will grow on you!

ALTHOUGH...I thought I had been particularly NOT crazy so far this game... what you talking aboot?

PLUS..
I AM THE ONE who killed the RVS.
Just want the credit.

[alexhans]

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof.

It doesn't rule him out.

He provided a way to start the game.

Mastin begs to differ.

Has wouldn't be my choice with players I know;

you can auto-clear me from

picking

the kill

, as I would definitely try to lead as mafia and would have to be overridden by someone who I respect highly as a player and recognize the skill of to not nk another pro-town player.

Now I'm not sure whether this was entirely serious or not, but if it was... yeah. Incidentally, it's also suspicious if it was entirely serious.

I think Mastin may make the mistake of being too sure of his allignment, meaning that he expects everyone to acknowledge his townieness in an unprovable way.

But don't worry.. I will grow on you!

I hope so.

Ok.

*Alexhans gives 1 credit to camn for ending the RVS (or attempting to in a WEIRD way )

[Zachrulez]

Alexhans, why so upset about Mastin being bandwagoned?