Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

QFT

QFAT. But it is Mastin who appears to be leading the charge, and i'm not sure that's his style.

Vote: Ben

Clearly a wannabe mage.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Interesting choice. Has wouldn't be my choice with players I know;

I will look up which players have played with hasdgfas, as they are most likely scum.

When skimming, i didnt spot that Mastin came right out of the gate with this mindset. That is genuinely scummy (Albeit from a gutshot OMGUS perspective).

I'm not sure why you make the assumption that people who have played with Hasdgfas are more likely to kill him than people that haven't. You must rate his play pretty highly if you think that anyone that knew him would have killed him instantly.

I think if i'd chosen the kill, i'd have probably picked you. Simply because, as scum, i cba to trawl through a massive thread, when i dont need to find scum. Ofc, this is all a pointless convo, because there are multiple scum, and it's probable that the decision wasn't unanimous.

That said, whoever is scum, i do appreciate not being killed. Was looking forward to an old school game like this

'Til then, I'll do what I always do in the RVS:

why do you need to emphasise that you always do it? haha

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've played with Hascow before and he was not a very active scum player... at least in that game. Maybe it was because the town had 80 % of lynchable material (Empking, Zwets, Dejkha, Wall-e and Hewitt). Anyway... If I had to kill... knowing there were no protections whatsoever... I would've killed... sensfan? Mastin? someone random that I don't know? Probably I wouldn't have had a voice in a scumteam....

Anyway... 16 playing... 25 % means 4 scum. 31.25 % is 5 scum... too much...
also... the n0 kill was unstoppable.. so we should count 15 playing... 33.33 % is unlikely

What I assume:
15 mislynch 14 L-8 (scum is 50 % of a lynching waggon)
14 kill 13
13 mislynch 12 L-7 (scum is 57 % of a lynching waggon)
12 kill 11
11 mislynch 10 L-6 (scum is 66.7 % of a lynching waggon)
10 kill 9
9 mislynch 8 L-5 (scum is 80 % of a lynching waggon)

we can basically mislynch 4 times (MAX). This is going to be one LONG game...



Players:
Battle Mage

SensFan (Is supposed to be good)
alexhans

GIEFF
Cephrir

VP Baltar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Kairyuu
camn

broomhead
SpyreX

Zachrulez
Benmage
Mastin

jammer

Bolded I've either played with, or know by reputation.

this is funny...
I'm tempted to vote VP Baltar because he is always scum...
I'm tempted to vote Mastin for self voting...
I'm tempted to vote Kai to OMGUS...
I'm tempted to vote camn because she is voting her fianceé

vote: alexhans

Obvcult. Speedlynch GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!

*Alexhans recruits Kai...

New postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:02 am (Yaw posted the first post of the game)
I'm researching who to vote...

well...

Vote broomhead

because he is probably hiding among unknown players.

Mastin posted again while I was writing this... and DDD too...

Smells....town. But i dont get the fixation with namedropping players you know. It ain't cool, and it ain't productive. Whoever did the italicising and underlining thing at least actually achieved something.

BM

[Battle Mage]

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Lol, your first assertion doesn't make sense. Please clarify. If you can convince me, i might string myself up.

So, who would think of hasgafads as a key lobotomy point?

Anyone who played with him before and liked his play.

If you've done your research, you'll have a good indication that the latter point doesn't apply to me. I'm a lil disappointed.

but truth is, I probably would've killed Alex or an EM player. Maybe Kai instead.

truth is? Oh dear, it's starting again!

BM

[Battle Mage]

You must rate his play pretty highly if you think that anyone that knew him would have killed him instantly.

Not necessarily. It could be a revenge kill. It could be someone that HASCOW is particularly good at reading....

It could be a lot of things.

"could" isnt a particularly useful word in this instance. If you want to make a case based solely on Kill WIFOM, i'm saying you should at least research all the contingencies properly.

Do YOU think anyone fits yours?

Why not let Mastin defend himself?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Look for who would kill the cow.

^^this.

I don't think Hascow was killed for lobotomy. . . no offense intended, but there are some pretty heavy hitters on the playerlist.
Unless they are ALL scum, I think hascow was picked for a different reason.

VP? what is your opinion of Hascow as a player?

Haha, you're including urself as a heavy hitter, amirite? xD

Mastin, are you still happy with your vote for BM?

why wouldnt he be? Mastin loves random voting.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Your statement was logically flawed.

Good spot! /sarcasm

In all seriousness, whilst my statement obviously was not entirely accurate, it was quite clearly an accurate representation of the stance Mastin has assumed. I still dont really see why you appear to be trying to bail him out here...

If he wants to make a case on WIFOM grounds, let him research it properly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote:

Still not liking any of the Jammer votes. Gieff's doesn't stand out anymore though, and his position seems reasonable.

Post 6

and

Post 10

These posts establish an attempt by Mastin to both clear himself based on the nightkill and gather scum suspects based on the nightkill.

Like Sensfan pointed out not too far back in the game, what's up with all this nightkill speculation?

Control of the game based on the nightkill seems to be Mastin's motive, and I'm happy to put a vote on him. (I'm clear! But these people are scummy because they know Has!)

Vote: Mastin

do you know Has?

Vote

BM

self vote? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

2 scum in a 16 player game, is ridiculous.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alrighty then, here’s my catchup post from whats been posted thus far. It’s done chronologically so if the start of my posts feelings shift by the end, so be it.

However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.

It is an interesting attempt Mastin could be employing here as scum. Especially as he so justly declared how he would have acted. But if he really was scum, wouldn’t acting the way one would expect you to act be illogical while acting in contrast to the predictable action be most rational.

Im glad... but people should still vote eventually... For a reason... but vote. We can not afford lurkers (active or not) or inactivity...

QFT, beautiful. I despise all lurkers.

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Besides that, why is the kill of hascow so special?

Because, why would hascow be killed? There has to be a reason. And that reason means that the person who killed hascow probably knew him.

More common scum kills would be people like Sensfan, Kai, myself, maybe Alex, etc.

Not hascow.

Only becouse some didn't play with her and wouldn't kill becouse of that?

Him. Him.
And, yes. They wouldn't kill hascow because of that.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

You'd like that wouldnt you? Tell me, are you just going to take everything Mastin says at face value, or are you actually intending to pretend you want to scumhunt for yourself?

I dont have any idea why you have quoted those 2 posts otherwise.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Haha, you're including urself as a heavy hitter, amirite? xD

Of course not!
>

I

< am a soft touch.
But I certainly put YOU in that category!

Lmao, quit it now, you're making me blush. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans

Serious vote. Serious wagon required.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yaw #25:
From now on the short forms are:
Battle Mage = BM
SensFan = SF
alexhans = Alex
GIEFF = GIEFF
Cephrir = Ceph
VP Baltar = VP
Debonair Danny DiPietro = DDD
Kairyuu = Kai
camn = Camn
broomhead = Broom
SpyreX = Spy
Zachrulez = Zach
Benmage = Ben
Mastin = Mastin
jammer = Jam
hasdgfas = Hascow

Do we all agree? So we can easyly use Ctrl-f to look for a name OR short form? Remember, It all helps the town.

Nah, i disagree. Jammer can be Jammer. SpyreX can be Spyrex. Kairyuu can be Kairyuu. Hasdgfas can be Has. Cephrir can be Cephrir. You can be Lynchbait.

#Jammer's 26: what's your Conclusion? Are you scumhunting? Is mastin?

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

Very good point? It isnt brain surgery, pal. What scumgroup kills randomly?

The flaw you have is, that any motive you give to a scumkill is automatically WIFOM. Thus, no conclusion you can draw from the kills can make a strong case.

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

jammer, if you read the site/my sig at the time, you would have known I was forced out of that game. So I'm going with a

Vote" jammer

Is this a joke vote? Are you voting a player who is on the spotlight for what reasons exactly? Are you going to be as combative as ever? Are we gonna end up fighting?

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

I agree with this.

Convenient? Whats your relationship with Hasdgfas?

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

mmmm... I knew it...

Sensfan...
Discussing, stating our opinions = Healthy
Shutting the fuck up = NOT healthy

Trying to appear pro-town, whilst not actually saying anything.

I feel reasonably safe in calling you as town.

Do not count your townies until they flip... Remember Steph?

DDD: THIS is the time to speculate about deaths... later on, we wont be able because scum may choose to wifom. But right now. I'm sure it counts for something.

Possibly the least intelligent thing i have ever read. ^

Why coach Zach? And who is Steph?

Cephrir expects three or four scum, says we should assume four scum because of that possibility. And then concludes by stating there probably aren't four scum. While these statements are completely contradictory they certainly don't look good to me.

Good point. It sounded weird to me too.

its not wierd, it's completely logical...

BM... YOUR #71 is much more scummy than anything you might pretend Mastin is... Hoping on a waggon just like that?

Lol, wow. It's the Random Vote Stage. Get over it. xD

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do? Kiss his ass? lmao

Mastin is an active and great player IMO and that's just his style. He was amongst the first people to post

Oh, sorry i didnt realise we'd instituted a rule where the first players to post are protown. 0.o

What are you smokin, bro?

Active and great player, as he may be, it doesnt mean he is town, or worth keeping around. Nor does it make people who are suspicious of him, automatically scummy.

and he completely destroyed RVS (First time I've seen this) making this game really interesting from the get go.

Erm, do you always believe everything you're told?
The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

I think that your move is odd and opportunistic.

How many times have you played with Mastin? I've gotta admit, he strikes me as the kinda guy who probably attracts more attention than he deserves, not the other way around. Why then, should it be wierd that he would get that attention here. In a game of this size, a 3rd vote is nothing, yet you appear to have shat a brick. Is it because Mastin is your scumchum, or more likely, because he is town, who you feel can be manipulated?

Smells....town. But i dont get the fixation with namedropping players you know. It ain't cool, and it ain't productive. Whoever did the italicising and underlining thing at least actually achieved something.

dude... you dissapoint me... One post and you already have an opinion of allignment... I was just following Mastin's idea wich I though cool and Kai made it cooler.

If you're not helping don't criticize.

I'm not calling anyone town until I'm REALLY convinced they are town... and event then... I will still watch them closely.

Thats funny, because you did the exact same thing with Mastin, and myself. The only difference is, it appears you were being serious.

You said yourself that opinions are important. How seriously do you take an unsubstantiated claim? Too seriously, i should suggest.

Can you please explain the bit in bold?

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Damnit bro. Could you BE any more transparent? I'm intrigued to hear what Mastin makes of this. You quite clearly KNOW that Mastin is town, because you wouldnt defend your buddy like this. What i dont understand is the passion behind it. Are you and Mastin a couple irl?

Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof. It doesn't rule him out. He provided a way to start the game.

It's a really exploitable theory. Not protown.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@DDD: Fair enough, it's contradictory. But does that really matter?

Yes, I’m inherently suspicious of anyone who either fails to take a stance or tries to make multiple stances because both of those are the easiest ways to make sure you’re never wrong or always partially right thus just slipping into the background.

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

Very good point? It isnt brain surgery, pal. What scumgroup kills randomly?

The flaw you have is, that any motive you give to a scumkill is automatically WIFOM. Thus, no conclusion you can draw from the kills can make a strong case.

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation. BM’s last two sentences perfectly sum up my opinion on this matter.

Out of sheer interest, rather than any game relevance, have you got a link to this process taking place? Like in a quicktopic or whatever?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Damnit bro. Could you BE any more transparent? I'm intrigued to hear what Mastin makes of this. You quite clearly KNOW that Mastin is town, because you wouldnt defend your buddy like this. What i dont understand is the passion behind it. Are you and Mastin a couple irl?

OK WTF BATTLE MAGE???? YOU ARE CLEARLY STARTING A BENMAGE WAGGON.

Lmao, this doesnt really make sense, but i assume it's designed as a parody?

Independent of your feelings about alex, do YOU think Mastin is town, Battle Mage? Your previous posts seem to indicate otherwise, yet you claim alex KNOWS Mastin is town.

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

Are you so sure alex is scum that you are willing to carry that assumption to the second level, guessing others' alignment through the prism of alex-scum?

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking.
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans

Serious vote. Serious wagon required.

BM

I'm sensing bullshit coming my way... The fact that you left mastin's waggon to the one who is "defending him" is noted.

Again, you consistently assume he is town. If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

Nah, i disagree. Jammer can be Jammer. SpyreX can be Spyrex. Kairyuu can be Kairyuu. Hasdgfas can be Has. Cephrir can be Cephrir. You can be Lynchbait.

It is a way to organize things so it's easier to make searchs afterwards. Has is not a good short form, at all. Hasd is better in that case but hascow is just 2 letters longer and that joke is NOT funny because you seem intent in pulling it off.

Lol, it wouldnt be funny if i didnt actually want you dead. And if im not willing to put my money where my mouth is, i wont be a great asset to the town now, will i?

Hasdgfas is fine for a short form. Alot of the players here i dont even know. You asking everyone to abbreviate their names, is immensely unhelpful.

The flaw you have is, that any motive you give to a scumkill is automatically WIFOM. Thus, no conclusion you can draw from the kills can make a strong case.

*sigh*
You all seem to be ignoring my words... argumenting about a kill is NOT definite to finding scum. But it can provide a base from where to start. Why is people so unconfortable around this idea? WHy are YOU so against it? Because it signaled you as posible player?

Yep, i've never made any attempt to deny that it seems scummier from my perspective, because i know that the conclusion of such a policy will NOT result in a scum lynch. So of course there is an element of OMGUS. But anyone can see that it is logically flawed, and you yourself must realise that with people like you tailing Mastin like a lost little puppy dog, the rest of us are BOUND to be edgy about craplogic actually leading somewhere.
Also, argumenting isnt a word. Bet you wish i'd ignored that.

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

What's the HUDE deal with nk speculation then? Also, Note that I said that futher NK would not be useful because they will be probably covered with WIFOM but I think the n0 kill allows a reason...

I dunno how much clearer i can be. You're wrong. Please stop wasting everybody's time.

Did scum knew that the RVS was gonna be avoided like that? if not... why would they think of wifom?

What is the obsession with the RVS about? It's like you portray it as something bad, when in reality, it serves us just fine. Granted, this conversation has induced discussion, but if it wasnt for Mastin, you wouldnt be in this position right now. Maybe you should think again as to whether his plan was quite so good.

Personally speaking, i only left the RVS with my vote for you. I expect the vast majority are still there, because you dont have anywhere near enough votes.

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

Ok... this kind of posts always scream scummy to me. This is called SOFT-PUSHING or SOFT-IMPLYING or whatever. You agree with me in the quid of the matter but still call me "weird" for it. Weird is used when you want others to think... oh...

if it's weird it must be scummy...

Uncool tactic.

Pure, unadulterated OMGUS. It's probably the one nice comment i made about you. If you wanna have a strop about it, knock yourself out.

Ask any other player here if they find your consistent protests about the number of scum wierd, and every single one (probably even your buddies, if they have any sense) will agree with me.

You're just squirming now. lol

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

I know SF has a strong personality. I'm just testing the waters. What's wrong with them, anyway? are you just adding fluff to an otherwise lame case?

I'm pointing out that you arent really acting in a protown manner. Rhetorical questions are a classic method of persuasion-you arent trying to find scum, you are trying to make someone look scummier than they actually are. You do it again here. You're trying to come across as an aggressive townie, but it's pretty apparent that it is just a front.

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

I agree with this.

Convenient? Whats your relationship with Hasdgfas?

I'd appreciate if you read what I said a long time ago before asking that SAME question.

I've played with Hascow before and he was not a very active scum player... at least in that game. Maybe it was because the town had 80 % of lynchable material (Empking, Zwets, Dejkha, Wall-e and Hewitt). Anyway... If I had to kill... knowing there were no protections whatsoever... I would've killed... sensfan? Mastin?

someone random that I don't know?

Probably I wouldn't have had a voice in a scumteam....

Lmfao.

Confirm Vote: Alex

You cant seriously try and tell me that you believe this Mastin bullcrap is consistent with your own confession-that you might have killed someone random who you dont know? xD

2) I say that I would probably have no voice on a scumteam so that means that there's no kill that could rule me out or make me townier because it wouldnt probably be my choice.

Aww, arent you CUTE!
So modest. *pinches cheek*

Trying to appear pro-town, whilst not actually saying anything.

BM... you're really starting to annoy me and you're really starting to look like trying to fake a case instead of actually scumhunting.

Admittedly, sometimes i do that. I get fixated on someone, and go a little overboard. But, i'm feelin pretty happy with my vote atm.

I said the whole healthy thing to avoid a Sensfan flame up for nothing. We are not going to lynch him, you or whoever just for a nk theory.

Haha, dont kid yourself bro. YOU aren't going to lynch ME, full stop.

Possibly the least intelligent thing i have ever read. ^

Why coach Zach? And who is Steph?

^ Possibly the less useless comment I've ever heard.

Please have the courtesy of quoting the entire backlog of conversation. I have a life outside of the game, and making me go back and read extra every time i come on, is not very friendly.

Ftr, i do apologise if i offended you on a personal level. I just get really annoyed when people say stuff that is clearly wrong. When i disagree with you, just back down, and we'll get on fine. *hugs*

If you had meta-ed me... you would find that I usually try to coach everyone into playing in a way wich I think is the optimal way... I may be mistaken but it's what I think is good. A player can take it or leave it.

Got a link for me here?

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do?

Ok. I didnt take it that seriously but I guess it's somewhat valid to vote for him. But... would you lynch him for it?

If i intended to lynch him for it, you'd think i'd still be voting for him now, no?

Active and great player, as he may be, it doesnt mean he is town

I know

, or worth keeping around.

I wouldn't be so sure about that as I've explained before.

I guess if your argument is that he will be readable later in the game, then yes, there is merit to keeping him around. But that isnt what you said. By that token, you should be voting for VP Baltar. I seem to recall you saying that he was unreadable.

Nor does it make people who are suspicious of him, automatically scummy.

No, BUT, I think one may always sense if a vote is forced or not. Benmage's vote, for example, sounded forced to me.

Benmage seems ok to me.

The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

what??? I don't follow your logic that the only way in wich RVS was destroyed is if mastin is scum... Could you rephrase it in a way a 5 year old could understand?

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage. If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

How many times have you played with Mastin? I've gotta admit, he strikes me as the kinda guy who probably attracts more attention than he deserves, not the other way around. Why then, should it be wierd that he would get that attention here. In a game of this size, a 3rd vote is nothing, yet you appear to have shat a brick.

Is it because Mastin is your scumchum, or more likely, because he is town, who you feel can be manipulated?

woah... Loaded questions... (Bolded for emphasis)
"Are you scum because of A or are you scum because of B?"

Brain explodes...

Ugh, awkward. I actually giggled out loud when i read this. *facepalm*

1) I know it's wifom but thinking I would defend a scumpartner on D1 with such a great enthusiasm is underestimating me. Greatly.
2) While this is not totally unthinkable. I know that defending a player doens't help to go unnoticed and you may get heat for it (like YOUR F%&% senseless Vote!). I've learned that scum is safer being mild on the first stages of the game and then attacking with "great" and "bombastic" cases faking conviction. Also, I DONT think Mastin is so easyly influenciable. And why would I feel the need to manipulate him when he is throwing flowers in my direction before I do?

1. I know. If it makes you feel better, ive concluded that this probably isnt the case.
2. Maybe you dont want to manipulate him. Maybe you just really want to keep him alive. Who doesnt love flowers?

btw, BM, when did you stop beating your wife?

When she got a restraining order. How the f*** did you know about that?!?!?

Thats funny, because you did the exact same thing with Mastin, and myself. The only difference is, it appears you were being serious

Oh... so you were joking? that explains your sudden change to an Alexhans vote...

It wasnt a complete joke. But it wasnt a vote i was intending to keep for long without any more developments.

Can you please explain the bit in bold?

"If you dont Help Dont criticize"
there's a way to critic constructively that has an intended goal. There's another that only creates violence. We should avoid the latter. This is a game after all and I don't want to get worked up like I did before. Flaming me to get reactions is not a valid recourse. I will just ignore you and I advise anyone else to do the same. Let's play, inspect, scumhunt, retort and all that jazz... but keep up the positiviness so we can make it an enjoyable experience.[/quote]

*nods*

Damnit bro. Could you BE any more transparent? I'm intrigued to hear what Mastin makes of this. You quite clearly KNOW that Mastin is town, because you wouldnt defend your buddy like this. What i dont understand is the passion behind it. Are you and Mastin a couple irl?

So... what I get from this is...
1) You've JUST STATED Mastin is town by saying I KNOW mastin is town.
2) You think I'm scum buddying up to mastin (fail, you're more plain than I am for thinking that a defense means someone is scum).

1. Its an assumption im making, based on the premise that you are scum.
2. You admitted above that defending someone looks scummy. Ive been nailed for it in the past, so if you're town, you have my sympathy. But, your buddying is based on nothing, and is completely illogical. You've basically decided he is town off the bat, and then used that claim to lead your suspicions.

Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

I don't understand you... You accuse me of buddying a TOWN mastin but then you coach me to open my mind?

If you're town, you should see what i see. Or thats how i view things anyway.

Will reply to the rest later, when i have more time.

BM

[Battle Mage]

At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

What do you think the results of this forced claim would be?

At this point, i wouldnt put anything past him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

[Battle Mage]

If that is your idea of a trap BM, then it's pretty lame. I want to reread this interaction between you two sometime today and get a little better feel for what each of you are arguing.

Lame? maybe. Scummy? Wtf.

Please explain your vote on me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lame? maybe. Scummy? Wtf.

Please explain your vote on me.

Well, as I explained before, it looks like you forgot the setup and were rolefishing. Now, perhaps you were attempting to go down this trap road you are explaining, in which case you could be town and were just making a lame play.

Alex invited serveral players to this game (myself included), so I would assume he knows the setup plenty well. Perhaps you were the one who forgot the setup. Perhaps not.

Does my vote bother you?

Haha, ofc your vote bothers me. I never enjoy people wanting to lynch me.

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

Did Alex recruit Mastin? Because that might explain his odd loyalty to him. I'm surprised you haven't brought this up.

Final comment on your vote:

Saying "are you a cop?" is not rolefishing. It's roleASKING.

I still think Alex might have slipped were it not for your comment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

This is a bunch of crap. I'm pretty certain Alexhans knows this game is Mountainous.

Did he recruit you too? lmao

Vote stands btw. I love the way suddenly people jump up to defend Alex when the charge is something other than scummy play.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

Does the rate of success really matter? Fact is, it could potentially work. So it's worth a shot. No win, no fee.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

It is scummy becouse mafia likes to know PR's for obvious reasons.

There is no incentive for Mafia to blatantly out a Cop on Day 1, with the strong likelihood of Doc-protection. If anything, Scum want the Cop to remain unclaimed. I honestly dont think you've thought this through at all. Take the blindfold off.

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

Does the rate of success really matter? Fact is, it could potentially work. So it's worth a shot. No win, no fee.

BM

It would give an insight in how likely it is for you to role'ask' as town or just is a excuse of mafia.

This discussion is irrelevant, because regardless of whether i knew the setup was all vanilla or not, me asking for a Cop claim is not a scumtell. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

QFAT.

Thanks bro.

BM

[Battle Mage]

b]Any motive given to a scumkill is WIFOM.[/b] This also applies to Mastin, to a GREATER extent than to alex, which makes it a very poor reason to unvote the former to vote the latter.

It doesnt apply more to Mastin than to Alex. Mastin is the kind of player that will happily shake things up at the start of the game, just for the sake of saying "OMGZ, I KILLED THE RVS". Alex on the other hand, does not have the same meta excuse in my book. The fact he agrees, but hides behind Mastin's coat-tails, seems scummier, dont ya think?

[*]

Alex is desperate to push the 4 scum theory, yet town should be cautious.

This is incorrect – it is actually MORE cautious to leave the door open to the possibility of 4 scum.

Erm, i didnt even say this. GG reading comprehension. xD

[*]

Alex agrees with Baltar that newer players would have less say in a scum kill - you think this is a convenient because alex is saying that HE wouldn't direct a scum kill.

I don’t see this.

Thats a terrible shame, because i do.

[*]

Alex tries to appear pro-town, but isn't really saying anything.

I disagree - this is protown, if alex really believes it is pro-town to speculate on the nightkill. I don't think it is protown, but I see no reason to be so sure that alex-town would feel the same way.[/quote]

I think you're taking my point out of context. If i recall, that point was made about a specific post, rather than Alex's general mentality.

[*]

Alex says that players who are first to post and post a lot are pro-town - BM disagrees.

Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.

Haha, what?? This is going a little downhill now bro. Given everything that has occurred, what is not scummy about asserting Mastin is protown under so little evidence?

[*]

Alex believes Mastin destroyed the RVS - BM disagrees (and presents a falsely binary choice).

false binary choice?

Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.

Ok, i'll stop you there, because im getting bored now. The thing is, if you dont think Alex's panicked defence of Mastin was scummy, then i wouldnt expect you to agree with the case on him, because that is pretty much the cornerstone of it. If that's what you wanted to say, you should've just said that, and then gone on to explain why you feel that Alex was justified in concluding Mastin was protown, at such an early stage in the game.

Also, skimming down your post-what do you feel required response in post 144? As far as i am concerned, suggesting an anti-pairing is hardly anything to get edgy about.

BM

[Battle Mage]

He kept saying "bro".
He, I think, is/was being intentionally argumentative regarding NICKNAMES, of all things.

Understand, though.. I am not sure he is actually SCUMMY.. just scummiER than alex. Right now I am inclined to think town vs. town on them.

lmao. Is saying "bro" a well known scumtell these days?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Out of sheer interest, rather than any game relevance, have you got a link to this process taking place? Like in a quicktopic or whatever?

It's mafia 91. You COULD'VE searched for it... but here are the links...
Mafia 91
Sicilian
Japanese

been there, done that.

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

Ok... I sized this for emphasis... THIS is one hell of a scummy statement. COnnecting the lynches of 2 players so if one them flips town the other must be looked at... Hell of a way to get 2 town players lynched with crap logic (no, I don't know if mastin is town or not but it's my current feeling).

But that isn't what i said, is it? I said, if we lynched you, and you were town, Mastin would still be a suspect. It wouldnt be a scumtell for him, and he wouldnt be an insta-lynch, but he wouldnt be confirmed town, either.

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

1) I don't care if you think the best of you and above every player here... but you can't appeal to experience to pull of scummy actions.
2) DONT underestimate me like that. First, it's stupid. Then, it's scummy. That's called fake scumhunting. Doing something you know, would not work if you were town but you do it all the same to pretend.

Lol, im not sure i understand the first point. The second is somewhat valid. But it isnt true. I just felt it was worth a shot. Admittedly, the delivery was poor.

Again, you consistently assume he is town. If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

Dude... I ADVERTISED this game to other players... I know what kind of setup it is... I can not imagine that you would think otherwise. Therefore your "scumhunting" is not genuine.

Why should i know that you advertised this game to people? Need i point out that i was not among this elite group?

Lol, it wouldnt be funny if i didnt actually want you dead. And if im not willing to put my money where my mouth is, i wont be a great asset to the town now, will i?

it's funny how you feel the need to respond a lot of useless stuff and always try to paint you in a "townie" fashion.[/quuote]

Always? you've given 1 example. haha.

Hasdgfas is fine for a short form. Alot of the players here i dont even know. You asking everyone to abbreviate their names,

is immensely unhelpful

Bolded for emphasis. NOTE HOW YOU ARE ATTACKING ME FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. IT'S A REPETETION ATTACK FROM EVERY SIDE EVEN TO START IMPRINTING IN PEOPLE'S MIND THAT IF YOU HAVE SO MANY THINGS (bull) AGAINST ME THEN THERE MUST BE SOMETHING...
Cool tactic.

Aww shucks. Thanks

BRO

. You should know i dont like being bossed around.

Yep, i've never made any attempt to deny that it seems scummier from my perspective, because i know that the conclusion of such a policy will NOT result in a scum lynch. So of course there is an element of OMGUS. But anyone can see that it is logically flawed, and you yourself must realise that with people like you tailing Mastin like a lost little puppy dog, the rest of us are BOUND to be edgy about craplogic actually leading somewhere.

All I'm reading from this is

preventive

voting. You don't actually think we are scummy. You just want to avoid getting lynched.

Preventive isnt a word either.
Have you never considered that townies might be concerned about being lynched, and hence be paranoid about those who want to lynch them being scum? It's natural.

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution,

but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me

. What annoys me is,

i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn

, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

HAH!

OK PEOPLE! check this out ^^

I wonder why people complain about NK speculation and then say that no one is complaining about setup speculation (Most of us chipped in about the number of scum) and BM decides to think, now, not before, that I'm scummey for it even though from his own point of view is ilogical so he quickly makes up a theory where I'm a SUPER WIFOMER or a unnecesary gloater.

Ok...people? rofl
You're contradicting your own assessment of me. First you claim that im insinuating you are scummy, then you admit that i acknowledge there isnt a scum motive for doing so, unless you are just lying at every turn. Super Wifomer? Who's getting tunnel-visioned OMGUS now? lmao

I dunno how much clearer i can be. You're wrong. Please stop wasting everybody's time.

... you won't flame me up. So don't try. Anyway, I would advise you to stop with the agressive tone.

Haha, you think THAT was flaming? I'm not going to apologise for telling you the truth in a clear and concise manner. You can advise me all you like-until you drop the attitude, i dont think i will take your comments too seriously.

What is the obsession with the RVS about? It's like you portray it as something bad, when in reality, it serves us just fine. Granted, this conversation has induced discussion, but if it wasnt for Mastin, you wouldnt be in this position right now. Maybe you should think again as to whether his plan was quite so good.

I've never played a game without RVS. RVS can be a very easy path for experienced players (and I know there's a lot of them here) that can choose to excuse any scummy action because it was RVS... (ehem, Vote on Mastin, ehem)

There are other alternative game starts, but effectively, random-voting is something of a given. By your own assessment, Mastin did not kill the RVS then?

IIRC there's some important experienced players who say that there's no need for RVS so it's not Mastin's innovative plan. It's something that has been done.

I don't care in wich position you're trying to imply I am. I'm in no bad position. You're just trying to portrait it as if I were.

Haha, this does feel a little like a conspiracy. But i got that impression from the sign-up thread anyway. At some point, the group who came in together will have to start looking at each other critically.

Personally speaking, i only left the RVS with my vote for you. I expect the vast majority are still there, because you dont have anywhere near enough votes.

see? You excuse your mastin vote as RVS... You KEEP pushin my case in the worst possible way. Without

I dont need to excuse it. It could be a perfectly legitimate vote. I'm just being honest-you are far more vote-worthy.

#71 BM's vote on mastin
Mastin NEVER responded... YET, BM unvoted and voted me... scumhunting?

why would i need a response? Are you learning Mafia out of a textbook? lol

Pure, unadulterated OMGUS

NO man... If this is OMGUS Then why isn't omgus what you did to mastin? Come on... I'm just questioning your motives. I didn't jump at you for voting me. But the you keep acting in scummy ways to push a case that really doesn't exist.

Both are somewhat OMGUS.

Ask any other player here if they find your consistent protests about the number of scum wierd, and every single one (probably even your buddies, if they have any sense) will agree with me.

Here is where we draw a line between peculiar and scummy. My actions were not scummy. My actions were Alexhans. I explained my actions. You already made up your mind or are bullshitting so you never tried to logically think about them to realize I was telling the truth and that it was not scummy.

Funny how you can play this card for yourself, but have no tolerance for my playstyle.
Telling the truth? How can you possibly be telling the truth about something you cannot possible know, UNLESS YOU ARE SCUM? *facepalm*

You're just squirming now. lol

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

Again. PROPAGANDA won't work.

That's funny coming from Mr. Monstro-Post. Also, you really think the Nazi Minister for Propaganda and Enlightenment is a reliable source to quote? haha

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

I know SF has a strong personality. I'm just testing the waters. What's wrong with them, anyway? are you just adding fluff to an otherwise lame case?

I'm pointing out that you arent really acting in a protown manner. Rhetorical questions are a classic method of persuasion-you arent trying to find scum, you are trying to make someone look scummier than they actually are. You do it again here. You're trying to come across as an aggressive townie, but it's pretty apparent that it is just a front.

So... YOur question was just a rhetorical question to point I'm scummy? Kudos on the scumhunting then...

Eh?

Lmfao. Confirm Vote: Alex

You cant seriously try and tell me that you believe this Mastin bullcrap is consistent with your own confession-that you might have killed someone random who you dont know? xD

It's amazing. A post full of redundant "I'm convinced, look at me" tactics.
I don't see why that quote would make you confirm my vote. It's just advertisement. I don't believe anybody's bullcrap. I can find something to be plausible, possible, probable or not and I think for myself, thank you.

You havent responded to the point at all, you're merely trying to play it down. Please feel free to actually explain why you defend Mastin's point about N0 speculation being valuable, whilst acknowledging that you might kill randomly, were you scum.

Haha, dont kid yourself bro. YOU aren't going to lynch ME, full stop.

Love the confidence. I was thinking along the same lines about me. But, you know... Anyone can get lynched. Maybe not today. But you can't hide yourself behind experience. If you're scum, you're scum. No matter how many games you've played or how good your rep is.

Well i'd bet good money that i'll be lynched at some point anyway. The general vibe seems to be pretty anti-BM. And i'm not somebody especially difficult to get lynched, experience or no experience. The problem you guys will have, is where to go from there.

Please have the courtesy of quoting the entire backlog of conversation. I have a life outside of the game, and making me go back and read extra every time i come on, is not very friendly.

Ok. I was trying to keep things as shorter as possible but I will do it from now on.

thankyou

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do?

Ok. I didnt take it that seriously but I guess it's somewhat valid to vote for him. But... would you lynch him for it?

If i intended to lynch him for it, you'd think i'd still be voting for him now, no?

Then why did you vote for him?

He was the scummiest player at the time, so i voted for him. But it was far too early days to consider a lynch.

The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

what??? I don't follow your logic that the only way in wich RVS was destroyed is if mastin is scum... Could you rephrase it in a way a 5 year old could understand?

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage.

If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

OK... this seems like Twisted logic 101...

^^ READ THAT TWICE OR THRICE OR AS MANY TIMES AS YOU NEED TO AND TRY TO DISENTANGLE THE MESS

1) Every waggon that forms out of the RVS did not necessarily find scum.
2) Typically, there's a waggon on the active player for being so agressive. I've experienced that it's adequately pushed by scum.
3) The bolded part is contradictory BS from yourself who have tried to paint me as scum buddying up to mastin.

Contradictory? No. You are just desperate to tie me down to 1 particular belief so you can best understand how to handle me. Not gonna happen.
I merely pointed out that, your comments dont add up. If you think Mastin is town, you cant also think that his play was beneficial.

btw, BM, when did you stop beating your wife?

When she got a restraining order. How the f*** did you know about that?!?!?

You can feel free to explain your joke now, given i'm not married, nor do i have any history, or intention of beating women.

2. You admitted above that defending someone looks scummy. Ive been nailed for it in the past, so if you're town, you have my sympathy. But, your buddying is based on nothing, and is completely illogical. You've basically decided he is town off the bat, and then used that claim to lead your suspicions.

No. my suspicions came from the way in wich the waggon form. It's reasons. The quickness of it. I hadn't found anything that indicated mastin-scum and you were all voting the active player for a STRATEGY? yes. Voting someone for an hypothesis was scummy.

No it wasnt. haha.

If you're town, you should see what i see. Or thats how i view things anyway.

The thing is... I'm trying to decide if you're scum or not based on all the inconsistencies and scummy things you seem to try to pull to get my lynch (endless propaganda too).

You really think you can call me on propaganda, when every so often, you taking chunks of posts, put them in bold, and anxiously scream at everyone else to buy into ur bs? lol

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

It IS scary. The last time I saw somebody make nested assumptions like that, he was scum. It's much easier for scum to pretend to look a step ahead, because they are ALREADY SURE of the first step (i.e. sure of player 1's alignment, so they pretend to use that assumption to make "guesses" about others' alignments, whereas townies would NOT make these nested assumptions so readily, especially not so early in the game).

GIEFF has a BIG point here. I've seen this attitude in some other games too. Conditioned lynches.

You should read my response to him then. Because anyone who can read, will be painfully aware that i suggested nothing of the sort.

Voting off lurkers is more important then voting scummy players? Where is your priority?

Not where yours is, apparently. Look. When I voted. It was an RVS vote (I give a crap reason for my RVS votes so I can get a reaction, instead of the typical Vote A because he smells like socks) to try and see how the guy reacted. Later on... I awaited patiently for "the ghost's" return so I could question him about anything and try to get a read on him. In a mountanious game, we can not afford lurkers. Also, I don't need to vote to question a scummy player nor I need to find someone scummy to question him...

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

lol. It's hard to picture BM being so naive as town.

Aww, i'm being flamed... lol

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play?

With just one vote on me... it's TERRIBLY scummy. Trying to expose or a cop. Or trying to narrow down the cop pool.

You seem to have a mild obsession with Cops. But, moving past that, the 1 vote, was mine. Therefore, its perfectly legit for me to request a claim, if i feel you ought to be lynched.

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

lol... so you try to pull scummy meta to protect yourself? XD

It's not scummy though. Thats my point. It's just how i roll.

Did Alex recruit Mastin? Because that might explain his odd loyalty to him. I'm surprised you haven't brought this up.

Also, by recruiting you mean what exactly??? there's townies and scum... no cults, no recruiting masons... no nothing... What are you trying to say?

Don't be a douche. Did you recruit Mastin for this game?

Vote stands btw. I love the way suddenly people jump up to defend Alex when the charge is something other than scummy play

what? explain because you're being unclear. Why do you think people are "defending" me? They're just stating what they know... I INVITED many of them to this game. IF they were, in fact, defending me... what do you think it would mean?

Thats a big issue with this game. Alot of you guys allegedly know each other, therefore it's going to be hard to distinguish in-game buddying, from ooc-buddying. On the plus side, if you guys are ALL town, this game should be pretty clear cut.

My point was, as soon as a comment was made about you which wasnt really relevant to you play, you suddenly developed a wealth of support. Notably, these people didnt feel able to jump to your defence where it would actually have meant something.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

Could you explain the reasoning behind it?

I pity the Town if none of you are Scum. That, and I don't think its possible for all 3 of you to be that scummy, but still Town.

And with a scum you mean only one, or atleast one.

How could I possibly know if there is exactly one? This is the type of stuff that put you on the list.

I lol'd.

Unvote, Vote: Gieff

Might as well put my vote somewhere useful.

BM

[Battle Mage]

mastin's absence is not scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Camn... quit acting like a child... if you're town... you're being most unhelpful with ridiculous questions...

haha please cut the condescending crap. Thankyou.

Gieff- i appreciate being your favourite.

especially considering how mutually supportive camn, Sens, and BM have been.

As far as i can see, the only connection between those 3 players, are they all rock. So why shouldnt they be mutually supportive? If there's one thing scum fear, it's united townies who trust each other.

Also,

Unvote, Vote: VP Baltar

His reaction to Mastin really rubs me up the wrong way.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't know why both Sensfan and BM claim they see nothing scummy about camn.

• She has contributed little to no scumhunting.
  
• She has shown she is more concerned about how she is viewed by the town than about catching scum.
  
• She strongly over-reacted to my investigation of her meta, and OMGUS-voted me. Once again, this was NOT about scumhunting, but about protecting how she is viewed by the town, as evidenced by how weakly she pursued it.

I'll discuss Camn as soon as another shared game of ours has been completed.

Gieff- i appreciate being your favourite.

Can you please answer now - do you think Mastin is town? His towniness before was only implied by alex being scum - now that you have unvoted alex, does this change the degree to which you believe Mastin is town?

Why did you unvote alex to vote me - did he assuage your suspicions, or did you think I did something scummier?

I'm fine with Mastin atm. He's an easy lynch, and im not happy to roll with it unless he does something more to actually deserve it. I wouldnt say i thought he was town, but theres nothing really to pursue atm, till he catches up at least.

Alex didnt assuage my suspicions, but frankly, it doesnt look like his fan club are going to allow him to be lynched anytime soon. I guess the resolution of that is out of my hands. So, we move on to your good self.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

Vote: Battle Mage

Haha, not only OMGUS, but you had to wait to see if Mastin was gonna support you or not, first.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, when I asked Mastin that many pages ago, it was because I thought he SHOULDN'T still like his vote for you, as he had expressed a lot more suspicion of jammer at the time.

I think you know why I am voting for you, and I think you know it's not OMGUS.

So, in light of him falling in the trap you set for him, you promptly remove your vote from his wagon. Why is that?

You seem to think alot of things, but i have to question how much your brain is really being engaged whilst doing so. If you have something to say, just say it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ugh *facepalm*

Ok, im thick. lol

I blame not knowing any of you guys. And 1 hours sleep last night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I blame not knowing any of you guys. And 1 hours sleep last night.

I slept for about 4 hours this morning.

ok, let's go sleep now, come back tomorrow, and re-assess the entire game, k?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jammer, Kairyuu, Spy, Alex, Camn, and BM: Who are you suspicious of other than the person you are voting?

Ceph, who are you suspicious of?

----------------

My second suspect is alexhans FTR.

ha, is there any merit to me saying who i suspect, when i cant even remember who i'm voting? lmao

Will review.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage:

[mrow]Game[col]Alignment[col]Posts / Day[col]1,000's of Chars / DayNewbie 688[col]Scum[col]1.3[col]0.5US Election Mafia[col]Scum[col]1.9[col]0.6Newbie 763[col]Scum[col]1.4[col]0.6Newbie 770[col]Town[col]3.8[col]1.7Freelancer Mafia[col]Town[col]1.9[col]0.4Mafia 82[col]Town[col]2.8[col]0.9Traitor Mafia[col]Town[col]1.3[col]0.2Choose Carefully Mafia[col]Town[col]1.6[col]0.3Crackers Mafia[col]Town[col]4.1[col]0.7Return to New Catania[col]Town[col]2.6[col]0.5Mafia 83[col]Town[col]2[col]0.4This Game[col]?[col]5[col]3.2

Battle Mage posts about 600 characters per day when town or scum, but posts about 1.5 times a day as scum, and 2.5 times a day as town. This doesn't support my case on BM, but I am still very happy with my vote for him.

Interesting stats. I guess i'll consider them a mild town-tell for myself, but really, nothing major.

Gotta ask though-why bother to research those stats, if you didnt intend to take them seriously enough to follow up?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am constantly amazed that you can do that stuff.. . but if you ignore your own stats.. then what is the point?

I'm not ignoring it. I would not use posts/day meta as a sole reason for determining alignment. In BM's case, his other actions far outweigh the fact that he tends to post more often as town, and has posted very often in this game.

Not scumhunting at all is scummy.

Yes.

BM's play in this game is a great example of why scum don't like scumhunting - it's hard to remain consistent in your suspicion when that suspicion is faked to begin with.

Lmao. As fantastic a case study as i may appear, there's one little flaw.

I'm town. xD Just really brain-dead after not sleeping.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Gieff - I dont know how seriously you expect me to take a post that sets out with the assumption i am scum, and then tries to substantiate this standpoint.

BM: if you are town, you will obviously have very different reasonings for your voting pattern, so feel free to present them. I have a particularly hard time trying to think of why a townie would:

• So readily assume that alex-scum mean Mastin town, after previously thinking Mastin is scum.

What page were we on at this point? I think we've done to death the fact that my vote on Mastin was hardly the most conclusive of the century. Do you think it would be more protown to be afraid to change my opinions, at risk of looking inconsistent?

[*]Jump off of the alex-wagon just one post after making a huge post about him, and with alex not having assuaged any of the suspicion that you claimed required a "serious wagon."

My vote wasnt going anywhere. Angry as i was about that, i wasnt stupid enough to think that i could get Alex lynched today, and so, i move on. Scummy as you might see it, Town-BM had little choice.

[*]Hop on the biggest wagon, with no reasoning, not post anything of substance for 2 days, and then hop off that wagon once it fizzles

Simple. Gotta put my vote to good use, and nothing like a good old bandwagon. Plus, after the whole Alex fiasco, and even now really, i kinda felt i was a prime lynch candidate, so i thought it might do everyone some good to look at somebody else.

[*]FORGET that he hopped off that wagon.[/list]

Eh? My memory is hazy here. Please explain.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM is happy with a Mastin lynch... of course... it's easy...

Erm, no im not.

And he says that I have a fan club that's protecting me or something... I still don't get it...

Because you do. Don't pretend it isn't the case. I figured that was the main benefit to inviting half the playerlist here-they all have some kind of association to you.

KMD: I'm suspicious of BM, Camn, Benmage and SensFan mainly. For things they have done or attitudes they have.

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

GIEFF, mastin and jammer are looking town to me but, then again, I can't let my first impressions stick forever.

The first 2 are people who i'd consider to sit in your camp, but Jammer? He seems ok, why bring him into this?

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you've done your research, you'll have a good indication that the latter point doesn't apply to me. I'm a lil disappointed.

I saw you in many games with hascow. That's enough to convince me you know him well enough to NK him.

I dont want to speak ill of the dead, but to be honest, my experience of Hascow isnt one that would make me think he was a threat to me. You seem to believe he is an excellent player, therefore if anyone has grounds to NK him, it would be you.

And we've already established why your logic doesnt fly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok, i've decided. Gieff is town. Camn is spot on regarding Gieff's total aggression and willingness to be in the limelight. Plus i cant spell his bloody name without real thought.

Not sure what to make of Camn not OMGUSing him though. And especially ignoring him. For me, thats something id associate with scum more than town. On the one hand, she probably has a good read, but perhaps she just wants to buddy Gieff a bit, so he looks elsewhere. The guy certainly has conviction.

Camn's generally demeanour seems quite buddyish as well. Some of the case on her is hilariously poor, but in terms of a vibe, and her switches between 'Nice Camn' and 'Angry Camn', i could see her as scum.

This isnt the first game i've seen Mastin come under pressure for limited posting. Not sure of a read there either.

Alex isnt even worth discussing at this point. Will read VP Baltar in isolation next.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think we've done to death the fact that my vote on Mastin was hardly the most conclusive of the century. Do you think it would be more protown to be afraid to change my opinions, at risk of looking inconsistent?

FORGET that he hopped off that wagon.

Eh? My memory is hazy here. Please explain.

I'm referring to you forgetting that you unvoted me.

You mean when i thought you were VP Baltar? lol -.-

My vote wasnt going anywhere. Angry as i was about that, i wasnt stupid enough to think that i could get Alex lynched today, and so, i move on. Scummy as you might see it, Town-BM had little choice.

So why throw a giant wall-of-text back at alex just 3 minutes before you unvoted him and voted for me?

It's polite to respond when somebody talks to you.

I do not think alex would be a bad lynch, and if town-BM really found him scummy enough to say a serious wagon is required and to confirm his alex-vote, I don't think town-BM would give up so easily. This behavior fits in a lot better with scum-BM, trying to force a wagon on alex, but switching readily because he doesn't really think alex is scum.

I'd like to say it's a towntell, but it isnt really. Town or scum, i tend to stick to my guns. This game is different because i immediately got the impression (even in the signups stage) that there was some kind of conspiracy, and that seemed even more apparent with my talk with Alex. If you think through your final point, you'll see that it doesnt make any sense.

Scum-BM is ALSO a better explanation for why you put so much fluff in your post 113 case on alex.

Haha, when i want someone lynched, i try and get them lynched. Im not the most objective player at the best of times. xD

Simple. Gotta put my vote to good use, and nothing like a good old bandwagon.

Do you find me almost as scummy as alex? Or VP Baltar, who you are currently voting for? Right now, VP Baltar has 1 vote (yours), and likely an even LOWER chance of getting lynched today than alex does. How is your vote more useful on Baltar than it was on alex, who you claim to find scummy?

See my post above. Alex wont be lynched today imo. VP Baltar wont be lynched unless there is a case on him. If you guys quit posting for a bit, i might be able to see if there is.

And BM, I am not in alex's "camp" at all. He did not invite me to this game, and I have never played with him before. I think his defending of Mastin was scummy, and I think his buddying to me is scummy.

Sorry, my mistake. See how paranoid i am? lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

Because you do. Don't pretend it isn't the case. I figured that was the main benefit to inviting half the playerlist here-they all have some kind of association to you.

I did it to have an interesting game. Not so they wouldn't suspect me if I was scum...

Haha, if you didnt think it would affect the game, what was that shit with you and Mastin about? lol

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

Didn't you started voting me when I defended mastin? Since when Camn and Benmage feel you're obv town? Are they your fans? XD

I didnt invite them here, they just wanted to party. And im willing to lynch them if they exhibit scummy play. Thats the difference between you and I.

Who was the guy you didnt mention? Sensfan?

The first 2 are people who i'd consider to sit in your camp, but Jammer? He seems ok, why bring him into this?

huh? I was saying who I felt that were town. what do you mean?

Why are you Pro-Jammer?

And we've already established why your logic doesnt fly.

but... was it scummy?

It couldve led to several mislynches, therefore it is scummy, yes.

564: I don't follow your gameplay. At all.

What happens with your Alex-Mastin theories?

Why am I not worth discussin?

Maybe thats because your mentality isnt protown, and you cant understand the concept of people not being pegged down to one particular belief.

Theres no point talking about you atm, because whatever you do or say, you wont be lynched today. Plus this game has plenty of other people who need to be looked at.

Regarding you and Mastin-the anti-pairing stands.

The whole buddying thing is losing strenght... Yeah, I'm buddying GIEFF and mastin according to everyone. Camn and KMD buddie themselves. KMD buddies SensFan. Sensfan buddies KMD, Camn and BM. Zach has buddied BM IIRC. Now BM buddies GIEFF.

whats IIRC?

BM voted GIEFF even though he said that at least one fo Mastin and I were town.

Lmao. *Takes note*

BM pushed my case acting convinced that I was scum, the whole time. He gave 2 cases in wich I was scum with or without mastin but now is revoting Mastin.

I dont understand where you are pulling this bull from. Unless my brain has died again, my vote is still on VP.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i wasnt stupid enough to think that i could get Alex lynched today

Why not? because of my "fan club", as you said?

BLasphemy!! I did not write this!! It was the other BM!

Yep, lol. And yes, because of your fan club.

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

Didn't you started voting me when I defended mastin? Since when Camn and Benmage feel you're obv town? Are they your fans? XD

Yeah…I don’t remember this obv-town statement…and as much as I’d love to knock out the other mage and claim superiority, I do think he’s town.

How about we eliminate everyone else, and when it's just us 2, we have an ultimate duel to decide the superior mage?

Also, why do you feel i am town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM... do you honestly think I'm backed up by a secret cult or something?

I've played 10 games in MS... I've played only once with most players I invited...

MOD: If Ceph doesn't post soon... would you consider replacing him? I've already replaced once into a large game because he was lurking: Mafia 91

Quote from the sign up thread...

cephir... don't get replaced like you did on mafia 91... I had to read 17 pages to catch up...

I won't, I promise <3

He has confirmed in a new theme game yesterday and is getting prodded in another game. I strongly suggest replacement while we can still find one.

Nah, i like Cephrir. And lets face it, we need all the help we can get against you and the Buddy Brigade.

(im trying out some names) lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't really understand why BM called me town, either, zach. Should I just call it a coincidence that the two players I find the most scummy and have spent the most effort trying to lynch BOTH think I am town, yet BOTH of whom previously voted me, BOTH times without real reason, and BOTH of whom think the other is obv-town? I think not.

You read the post where i said you were probably town, but did not read the part of the same post where i discussed Camn?

BM

[Battle Mage]

the game would be so much easier if Alex was dead scum. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage - who is in the buddy brigade?

it looks like:

Alex, Mastin, Hasdgfas, VP Baltar, Kairyuu

maybe: Debonair and Camn

The last 2 can confirm or deny knowing Alex before the game.

Perhaps more members lurk in the wings. Haha, this is like mafia within mafia.

BM

[Battle Mage]

the game would be so much easier if Alex was dead scum. lol

BM

Who is in alex's "Buddy Brigade?"

lmao, i swear you've asked this like 4 times. Why do you feel i will be better at reading the signup thread than you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok so just add Zach to my list.

[Battle Mage]

jammer's last post is so town it makes my eyes bleed.

erm what? also, whats this truce shizzle about, with you and Gieff?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage

it looks like:

Alex, Mastin, Hasdgfas, VP Baltar, Kairyuu

maybe: Debonair and Camn

So... you're saying (assuming I'm scum) that I killed a member of my brigade?

Yep. Either that, or it is how you said it was originally-that you didnt have enough clout within the scumteam to determine the kill. Sad, eh?

VP baltar is commiting treason then... because he is voting me... and Kai did too... because he deserted me...

Last i heard, VP Baltar was voting for me. *shrug*

Oh... btw... I want Cephir out so I can get my reinforcement RedCoyote

Lol, i figured it'd be something like that.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@alex:
a) I am not ACTIVELY trying to policy lynch geiff. But it is not out-of-the-question.

I thought you said he was town?
In an all vanilla game, why is your life so much more valuable than his? Aside from the fact we love you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

SpyreX

597: What scum can be so retarded to claim cop by direction?

Maybe the same kind of scum who are retarded enough to, upon receipt of their role, start talking about it in the signup thread? lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

id like to read a completed game of VP's. Meantime,

Unvote, Vote: Camn

Seems fairly logical.

BM

[Battle Mage]

This camn wagon is the worst wagon I've ever seen.

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

---

Alex or Mastin needs to be lynched today.

The former for having his vote on me that he's not willing to explain in 200 words or less.
The latter for having read up to page fucking 4, despite posting everywhere else.

Seriously, I think most of the Scum are working hard to divert the Mastin wagon right now. I'm looking at the people that were fighting over him earlier as well: GIEFF, Alex, someone else.

gieff is town. if you can get support for an alex lynch, im with ya

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why is Gieff town?

You really think he'd be that aggressive and confident and outspoken as scum? I'm not seeing it. He might not be the brightest spark here (lets face it, neither am i lol) but he smells pretty town to me. He has the strength in his convictions, and generally, confidence like that is a towntell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

while im at work. Will respond to the bs when i get back and re-review.

BM

[Battle Mage]

700: Thanks Battle Mage... sorry, Zach... Do you have any reasoning as to why one of us (at least) should be scum?

Or it all lies at the stupid thought that you think buddying or defending someone is scummy?

Lol why are you tying me to Zach? and whats with the AtoE?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I do find Camn agreeing with BM's town read on you strange though.

really? Because, to be perfectly honest, Camn said Gieff was town, WAY before i did. So if anyone was agreeing, it's me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And

Camn

... voting yourself does nothing else than confusing me...

if you were town... it would never be a good strategy to lynch yourself unless you were going for a trade with someone of 1 after the other if the first doesn't flip scum (Wich seems also bad because both could be town) so, at this point, it only hurts us.

1) Are you town and trying to make a point by voting yourself or do you EARNESTLY believe it will help? why are we gonna gain something from your lynch if you're town? SensFan's defense of you is just a threat and a lie. So I need a real reason.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

Do you see why is most unhelpful?

Camn- what do you think of this post? To me, it stinks of coaching, and perhaps even indicates that Alex knows you are town. Given you know your own role, what do you make of it?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I do find Camn agreeing with BM's town read on you strange though.

really? Because, to be perfectly honest, Camn said Gieff was town, WAY before i did. So if anyone was agreeing, it's me.

BM

Where did she say he was town for the first time?

I dont know. and dont care. But i'm telling you for a FACT it was before i did. If you've done your research, you'd know this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

More votes on people who are actually scum: Alex, Mastin or Bowel Movements.

I'll address the rest of this crap later.

Ooh, if only i had your aptitude with acronyms, you...Virgin Prick.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

why so adamant that Camn is town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dearest GIEFF,

You and camn are both town. I've read your case. It's weak sauce and you can't let it go. There are some points that are mildly valid, but nothing that warrants a lynch. Meanwhile, Mastin is scum and you know it.

Yours in spirit,

VP Baltar

--------------------------

@ alex--Your unwarranted defense of Mastin, high fluff ratio, and general pushing of horrible cases make you lynchalicious.

That's way under 200 words. What do I win?

cant shake the feeling you are scum. Did i hear back on a link to a game of yours?

BM

[Battle Mage]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

why so adamant that Camn is town?

BM

Mostly because there is no strong case against her and she seems to be getting attacked for being Camn, not being scum. And my initial gut read on her was town to begin with.

She's self voting. She lacks confidence in her own ability to argue. She has dramatic changes of stance that i havent seen from her before as town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Is there a person in the game besides alex who is NOT against a Mastin lynch?

If not, then in the interests of ending the day, I will throw my support and effort behind a Mastin lynch now. I agree that 30 pages is just too long for Day 1.


However, I would very much appreciate people looking at camn again with fresh eyes tomorrow. I am very confident she is scum, and I hope to do a better job convincing everybody of that fact tomorrow.

Unvote

Vote mastin

I think Mastin is a better lynch than alex. Alex-town has benefit to us, Mastin-town does NOT.

I think you mis-worded the question, but, in a surprising turn of events, i'm against a Mastin lynch atm. Scummy as his limited posting has been, im considering his lurking more towntell than anything, especially given the setup.

I dont see the benefit of keeping Alex around tbh. Again, im not even entirely convinced he is scum anymore, but he is incredibly annoying, and if we're gonna policy lynch somebody, id pick him over Mastin. If Alex is scum, i think i know 1 one of his buddies too.

In any case, i feel we're getting alot out of the day, and we're only going to get more out of it, if we carry on. Give it a couple of weeks at least please?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I really have no idea what SpyreX was going on about at the top of the page, it didn't look like English to me.

Didn't seem that hard to me to follow. You explicitly said you're not going to be proactive. Further, that you weren't going to participate unless

we forced you to

.

Yea.

----

As for Camn:

My only issue is this suicidial bent. The silver rule is: if someone asks to be lynched, you lynch them.

HOWEVER CAMN I THINK YOU ARE TOWN SO QUIT WITH THE /EMO IT IS NOT PRODUCTIVE.

---

After looking at Mastin's profile and the fact he has posted almost as much in other games as he has in this game total AND did not respond to the prod...

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

I am not thrilled about this. However, setting yourself up and then vanishing and letting other schmucks pick up your defense can suck a donkey.

If you arent happy about this, why the hell are you doing it? Cant we discuss proper suspects a bit more, and then lynch the lurker?

BM

[Battle Mage]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

why so adamant that Camn is town?

BM

Mostly because there is no strong case against her and she seems to be getting attacked for being Camn, not being scum. And my initial gut read on her was town to begin with.

She's self voting. She lacks confidence in her own ability to argue. She has dramatic changes of stance that i havent seen from her before as town.

BM

She's self-voting because she gave her vote to Benmage. The fact that she kept this up after he voted her only makes her more town IMO.

No it doesnt. She didnt actually GIVE her vote to Benmage, she's merely mimicking his votes, which makes it seem more like a ruse. I can just about see what she might have hoped to gain from giving the vote to Benmage-get some reactions, and if he's scum (as she believes) would he use it to get a mislynch but leave himself open to attack tomorrow, or to bus a buddy, and play the long game. Because of her jibes at Ben knowing who is scum, she might have assumed he would bus, but when his vote went to her, she should have thought twice, and not continued that line. Benmage voting Camn with the proxy is a towntell from my PoV.

BM

[Battle Mage]

That depends; will Sens view everybody off the wagon as town even when you flip scum?

And if Sens REALLY believes that a camn-town-lynch means ALL scum are on the wagon, there is no way he would say it out loud. If it were true (and camn were town), saying it out loud completely ruins it, and ensure at least one scum will keep off the wagon. I would think that sacrificing one townie to confirm 6 townies would be a great deal. Why did you ruin this, Sens, if you really believe it?

seems pretty obvious he was just saying it to derail the wagon. And that isnt really scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you arent happy about this, why the hell are you doing it? Cant we discuss proper suspects a bit more, and then lynch the lurker?

BM

1.) Ultimately the way it went down is indefensible. It has to be dealt with.
--- No way in hell will it ever be dealt with via NK if he IS town.
2.) 30 pages for day 1 is enough. Probably more than enough.

Most of that 30 pages was shit. We got some good stuff tho-more than most towns get on Day 1. And it doesnt look like we're starting to flake. We dont have a deadline. I'm actually enjoying the discussion and getting quite alot out of it. So why the hell is there a rush to end the day?

3.) Restarting and regrouping if we are wrong will help.
--- The information gained if we are right is invaluable.

I'd rather wait and make a more educated decision. What you neglect to note, is that one of us will be NKed tonight. They wont have a chance to get their thoughts down again, so i think it's kinda a moral thing as well that you should let everyone finish their piece. I'd like to sort my thoughts on VP Baltar out, before he NKs me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ooh, if only i had your aptitude with acronyms, you...Virgin Prick.

Heh, I had to laugh. I could have been referring to benmage! (who has actually jumped ahead of you in scumminess for his love of the camn wagon).

I figured you were referring to both of us.

Did i hear back on a link to a game of yours?

Christ you are lazy. VP Baltar. Enjoy!

cheers. And, i'm not Christ.

BM

[Battle Mage]

pah, VP is probably town, according to meta. He was absolutely abysmal in Mafia 91-not even pretending to scumhunt. In a game of his as town, he played quite alot like he is here-analysing in depth, and not attempting to appease people, or make silly jokes.

So Re

Vote: Camn

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'd rather wait and make a more educated decision. What you neglect to note, is that one of us will be NKed tonight. They wont have a chance to get their thoughts down again, so i think it's kinda a moral thing as well that you should let everyone finish their piece. I'd like to sort my thoughts on VP Baltar out, before he NKs me.

BM

Go ahead, I'd really like to see why you voted VP in the first place. Didn't expect to get mastin at L-2 shortly after I voted him. Also can't see how Mastin is more "helpful" for town then Alex. Alex is atleast posting, altrough a lot of fluff.

Unvote

VP's posts havent filled me with confidence in his smarts, but he's probs town, after reading some of his other games. Which is a shame. lol

Ooi, what do you think of Alex atm?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Good lord I almost hope camn is the lynch so tomorrow you get the hang.

What is the SCUM BENEFIT for any of those actions? Putting yourself in the spotlight in a negative fashion in a mountainous game?

You're right, Spyrex - she is FAR too scummy to be scum. My mistake.


The scum benefit of those actions is you no longer have to pretend to find people suspicious, or pretend to scumhunt. camn-scum no longer has to worry about putting up a fake-front of fake-scumhunting, the lack of which is part of what I found scummy about her in the first place.

---

BM - I will give it more time if I think this town has any chance at all of lynching camn, or even you. I don't think they will though, so there is no point dragging it out even further, making it even harder for lurkers to catch up. Mastin is a fine lynch, one we can all agree on, and one that doesn't cost the town ANYTHING if he flips town.

haha, do you really still think i'm scum? I suggest you follow your own advice, and give that some more consideration. I think you'd find that if there was a good case on me, i'd be dead already.

A mislynch costs us because scum get to make an NK. And Mastin is not the most useless player here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Most of that 30 pages was shit. We got some good stuff tho-more than most towns get on Day 1. And it doesnt look like we're starting to flake. We dont have a deadline. I'm actually enjoying the discussion and getting quite alot out of it. So why the hell is there a rush to end the day?

I do think we have a very effective first day. 30 pages is a lot considering our player size. Unfortunately we have too many side-liners. So either we wait for them to catch-up in which case this game may die, or we vote(Mastin). I myself was beginning to feel disconnected/detached at the stagnation beginning to occur.

a 30 page Day 1 in a large normal is about average i think. You call this stagnation? The amount of posting we have tonight speaks volumes about the state of the game. If anything, things are picking up, rather than slowing down.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And Mastin is not the most useless player here.

I disagree. Mastin is worse than useless. Making super-long posts about what happened 25 pages ago is horribly anti-town.

It's just lazy. Say what you want about him, but i'd rather have Mastin-town as deadweight, than Alex-town who will probably lead us to a string of mislynches. Camn-town is dangerous too. Mastin isnt causing any harm atm, and if he gets his arse in gear, he will be useful. Thats what several of you concluded earlier anyway. *shrugs*

BM

[Battle Mage]

a 30 page Day 1 in a large normal is about average i think. You call this stagnation? The amount of posting we have tonight speaks volumes about the state of the game. If anything, things are picking up, rather than slowing down.

Things are picking up now that people are excited about stringing up Mastin. That is all. When all the votes we're spread out..i felt the game was, or had the possibility to slow down. Again even now what will the future hold? Are we going to hammer Mastin? We won't get enough votes for Camn. I won't vote someone other than Camn or Mastin (save a massive scum-tell). Are we going to let people like Mastin, BCC and Ceph catch-up. The rest of us do what? Twiddle our thumbs...

Well, lets say Mastin remains our back-up lynch. I'll accept that, if you accept that Camn is a better lynch, and for now at least, come over to this side of the fence and vote for her.

BM

[Battle Mage]

It's just lazy. Say what you want about him, but i'd rather have Mastin-town as deadweight, than Alex-town who will probably lead us to a string of mislynches. Camn-town is dangerous too. Mastin isnt causing any harm atm, and if he gets his arse in gear, he will be useful.

Thats what several of you concluded earlier anyway.

*shrugs*

Not me. I've felt him scum since the getgo…and letting scum get away with sliding through this game is atrocious. How can you condone one who lurks as badly as he does, while posting elsewhere on the site. How much dire can ones game get when they themselves are sitting at L-1 and the days lead candidate for this long.

Tell me this. How is him lurking while at L-1, scummy? It is undoubtedly poor form, but scumtell? I think not. As i've said, i feel his lurking is more town than anything, and think how long the game would be now if he'd been around all day. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, lets say Mastin remains our back-up lynch. I'll accept that, if you accept that Camn is a better lynch, and for now at least, come over to this side of the fence and vote for her.

My vote hasn't moved from her. I already said my lynch preference is:
Camn
Mastin

Ah sorry. I should keep working on the reading.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ah sorry. I should keep working on the reading.

BM

Battle Mage-1 Benmage-.5

i was thinking along the same lines, but felt that ur meagre scoring from that wasnt worth a whole point, so didnt mention it

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'd like to sort my thoughts on VP Baltar out, before he NKs me.

So you're reveiwing me under the foregone conclusion that I'm scum? Tell me the main reasons why you think I am scummy before you go through and manufacture a case.

Lol you see why i find you scummy? You're so paranoid and need to read more before posting. Yes, im allowed to call you on being an idiot-i've already acknowledged that im an idiot too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

VP's posts havent filled me with confidence in his smarts, but he's probs town, after reading some of his other games. Which is a shame. lol

Ooi, what do you think of Alex atm?

BM

Trying to read him in iso. Meh, what am I trying.
Speaking in technical terms. He seems to have a high (info)/analysis ratio. He supports some (weak) cases on the sideline. After relooking his posts, I can see that as scum trying to look like he's hunting for scum. I'll like to have Mastin and Cephir posting before I will consider supporting a lynch of Alex.

Summary,
BM-Alex is scummy as hell.

roflmao. This seems to work for VP Baltar, so let's give it a try:

FRIENDS, ENEMIES, LURKERS- PUT DOWN YOUR LYNCH-ROPE AND READ THIS POST. THEN JOIN ME IN RUNNING UP JAMMER.

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

BM

[Battle Mage]

And

Camn

... voting yourself does nothing else than confusing me...

if you were town... it would never be a good strategy to lynch yourself unless you were going for a trade with someone of 1 after the other if the first doesn't flip scum (Which seems also bad because both could be town) so, at this point, it only hurts us.

1) Are you town and trying to make a point by voting yourself or do you EARNESTLY believe it will help? why are we gonna gain something from your lynch if you're town? SensFan's defense of you is just a threat and a lie. So I need a real reason.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

Do you see why is most unhelpful?

Camn- what do you think of this post? To me, it stinks of coaching, and perhaps even indicates that Alex knows you are town. Given you know your own role, what do you make of it?

BM

I think it stinks, too.
Despite Gieff's opinion... I like my vote on me.
Initially I was just following Benmage, but I had to think a lot about whether I should just replace out or what.. and I decided this:
1) SO MUCH effort has been put into pushing a crapcase on me, I think that we need to see my flip just for clarity.

2) PLUS.. i HATE this game right now. I actually want death. Incog warned me that it would be like this.. but I am an optimist.
So, If my death can help clarify things, I am all for it. Generally day 1 sees a mislynch... so I might as well be it, right?

3) FURTHERMORE.. my last couple games I have had a lot of anxiety re: getting mislynched. I never have been mislynched before.. and I have been getting some performance-anxiety, I guess . I figure I should just get it out of the way.

FFS Camn. Please pull yourself together, and proxy your vote to me instead. Then we might not have to mislynch Day 1. I didnt mind you self-voting when i was on the wagon, but now i realise Jammer is the play, if you arent gonna help, you should request replacement.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

VI = ?

And for the last time, I dont think Mastin lurking is a scumtell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

You will be dead by tomorrow.

*crosses his fingers*

This is a good point. If Mastin is town, he might well be NKed tonight. I'm happy to give the situation a chance to resolve itself.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

VI = ?

And for the last time, I dont think Mastin lurking is a scumtell.

BM

Village Idiot.

And how are you willing to discount the plethora of Mastin meta, then?

Simple. My own meta. I'm not discussing this anymore.

Did you read my post on Jammer? How would you explain away that glaring inconsistency? And what is your stance towards Alex again?

BM

[Battle Mage]

An excellent find by GIEFF.

scum meta. lol

*coach**coach**coach*

BM

[Battle Mage]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

VI = ?

And for the last time, I dont think Mastin lurking is a scumtell.

BM

Village Idiot.

And how are you willing to discount the plethora of Mastin meta, then?

Simple. My own meta. I'm not discussing this anymore.

Did you read my post on Jammer? How would you explain away that glaring inconsistency? And what is your stance towards Alex again?

BM

Alex and jammer would be obvious lynches in 95% of D1s.

The fact the game also features Mastin and Benmage means they might live a little longer than their play deserves.

Lol.

Let's face it, Mastin isnt going anywhere. Personally, Benmage gives me mixed vibes, but his play is proving very helpful atm. He's certainly conducive to following the right kind of wagons, so i dont see why he would warrant a lynch at this point.

I'll try and be clearer. Atm, i'm becoming increasingly confident of an Alex-Jammer scumpair. Which is why i asked Jammer about Alex, and why i've rather enthusiastically jumped on his inconsistent response. If i'm right, we've nailed 2 scum already, and players that, in your own words, might live longer because of distractions like Mastin.

I think we should take the bull by the horns today, and i'm picking a Jammer lynch over an Alex one, because his inconsistency could mean he is scum without Alex, despite my feeling that they are BOTH scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jesus, no. We should be lynching Mastin or alex, as that is where the majority of agreement by the group is at. I really think if we give the camn situation a night for everyone to relax and look back, things will make much more sense.

We aren't lynching Mastin today. If you wanna give an Alex wagon a try, i might be a little more sympathetic to your anti-town attitude regarding today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I say this because I’m town

This is the second time you've felt the need to say this.

*mental note*

BM

[Battle Mage]

1) Would you rather lynch alex or Mastin?

2)What did you mean when you said it wouldn't be that hard for me to convince you of my ability to make the right decisions?

1) Mastin. He is useless. I don't like alex's attitude... but at least he is playing. I have hit scum a lot lately on lurkerlynches, as well.

*facepalm*

Wish you'd stop kissing Gieff's behind too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage-1 Benmage-.5

i was thinking along the same lines, but felt that ur meagre scoring from that wasnt worth a whole point, so didnt mention it

Glad we're on the same page . I also figure if either of us gets lynched the other gets say 2-3 points. If NK'd the other gets 1 point....fair?
We'll see which mage reigns supreme![/quote]

Nah, NK can't count.

BM

[Battle Mage]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

You will be dead by tomorrow.

*crosses his fingers*

This is a good point. If Mastin is town, he might well be NKed tonight. I'm happy to give the situation a chance to resolve itself.

BM

Wait, why would scum NK Mastin?

Because everyone hates him. And if the scum are confident in their position, they'll feel confident enough to spend an NK getting rid of someone who is clearly zapping the GAME out of the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

also, i expect you just lost.

[Battle Mage]

Because everyone hates him. And if the scum are confident in their position, they'll feel confident enough to spend an NK getting rid of someone who is clearly zapping the GAME out of the game.

I find relying on scum to remove undesirable elements from the game to generally be a losing proposition.

Hmm, maybe generally speaking, but its certainly possible.

also, i expect you just lost.

Lost what?

The Game. duh.

BM

[Battle Mage]

FRIENDS, ENEMIES, LURKERS- PUT DOWN YOUR LYNCH-ROPE AND READ THIS POST. THEN JOIN ME IN RUNNING UP JAMMER. (resized)

Interesting, didn't expect this one.

I state I find Alex scummy, and later stated that again
Is it me, or are the caps your case?

Haha, dont make me laugh bro.

Your first point can be summed up with "beating around the bush". You weren't at all confident in your convictions. Translation was, you were LEANING scum on him, but you made it clear that you didnt want him lynched today.

In the same post, you make your second point-which was meant to be a summary of the first. You declare Alex to be "scummy as hell".

Your opinion on him is clearly inconsistent. Maybe that could be excused if your response had been along the lines of:

"Sorry, i forgot who alex was/got a bit confused"

After all, i've been there, and i wouldnt wanna be a hypocrite by attacking you for making a mistake. But, instead, you deny the glaring inconsistency.

It's enough for me. You are currently my number 1 suspect.

BM

[Battle Mage]

also, i expect you just lost.

Lost what?

The Game. duh.

BM

I didn't even know I was playing.

~

Moar people vote for Jammer already, plz.

few people do.

And QFT your request for Jammer votes.

Have you made yours?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jammer's not being lynched today.

Accept it and vote for Mastin.

I've actually presented some reasoning, for once. It would be nice if you'd do me the courtesy of responding, instead of just disregarding it off-hand. You're providing a classic example of why there is no incentive for people like Mastin and Cephrir to participate. Or me, for that matter. *growls*

BM

[Battle Mage]

Haha, dont make me laugh bro.

Your first point can be summed up with "beating around the bush". You weren't at all confident in your convictions. Translation was, you were LEANING scum on him, but you made it clear that you didnt want him lynched today.

In the same post, you make your second point-which was meant to be a summary of the first. You declare Alex to be "scummy as hell".

The "as hell" part is kind of misplaced. Didn't really want to lynch him before any inactive players weight in and post for a time. I have not said I don't want to lynch him at all.

Funny that you claim you want to give time for people like Mastin to post, when in fact, you voted for him not too long ago.

It sounds more like an excuse to me. Not gonna vote for him, because there are inactives. Its a bit like an FoS.

your second point certainly sounded stronger than your first, but perhaps this is because you want to be seen to be bussing Alex, but dont want him lynched today if at all possible. It's a tough dilemma i know, and that's the simplest explanation for why you got so tangled up.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

^this

Because everyone hates [Mastin]. And if the scum are confident in their position, they'll feel confident enough to spend an NK getting rid of someone who is clearly zapping the GAME out of the game.

I refuse to believe you could be this dense, though every time you post you seem to make me doubt it a little less.

How Very Poetic.

Jammer's not being lynched today.

Accept it and vote for Mastin.

Keep it up and you could become one of my new favorite people!

The Baltar seal of approval. The Christmas gift that nobody wanted.

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

This is dumb. Even if you believe Mastin is scum, there is no way that continuing the day is anti-town. I refuse to believe you could be this dense, though every time you post, you seem to make me doubt it a little less.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Game began on July 9. That would make deadline August 6, I believe.

haha we have a fortnight.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Did you read my post on Jammer? How would you explain away that glaring inconsistency? And what is your stance towards Alex again?

Glaring inconsistency…maybe I am reading wrong. He states why Alex is scummy, and tosses I suppose you into who he feels is scummy overall.

No, the second part is talking about Alex again. He goes from 'leaning slightly scummy' to "scummy as hell".

We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

^this

Indeed.

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

Alright, but if I vote. No-one else “yet” because my vote makes it L-2, Camn’s would be L-1. I don’t want someone voting inbetween and having Camn just hammer.
Reasoning:
**I like to who SensFan and Jammer would of liked to see lynched today. Neither have voted for sometime.

I'd rather you didnt vote now, because the next guy may well be foolish enough to pile on anyway. We have 2 weeks before even need to think about lynching. If we give up that time now, i'll be furious. Scum hate long days.

Furthemore, if you guys want us to find Mastins role and move on, tell me, where do we go next? Presumably if he is mafia, im wrong about Alex (and maybe Jammer) but what if mastin is town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Overly long days can hurt the town every bit as much as overly short ones can.

for crying out loud! 2 weeks is not an "overly long day" for a large normal!

BM

[Battle Mage]

This is dumb. Even if you believe Mastin is scum, there is no way that continuing the day is anti-town.

With how long you have been on this site you'd think you at least had some sort of grasp on optimal town strategy. Also, continuing the day when I feel lynching hyposcum-Mastin doesn't help the town at all. We have seen you and alex defending him for god knows what reasons, so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

Haha, if you're gonna play the IC card, might i note that with your, comparatively limited experience, you would do well to take note of what i say concerning game strategy.

Mastin isnt going anywhere. He will be lynched at some point. There is no reason for it to be within the next couple of days, or even on Day 1. Because, whilst you won't admit this, a Mastin-scum lynch gives us NO LEADS. If you think Alex-Mastin is a viable scumpair, you need to seek a new scumdar. It's pretty unlikely that they could be scum together given their early interaction. Me? Yeh, i could see that more, but as i'm not scum, my point stands. A Mastin lynch gives us nothing to work with.

What are you gonna do if Mastin winds up town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

SF waits till Mastin is at L-1, then hammers instantly. I thought that was clear?

I thought mastin was sitting L-1 before…

so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

We do?

Sens

, who do you want to see hung today?

*hanged.

Battle 1.5 - 0.5 Ben

BM

[Battle Mage]

You really think a Mastin lynch is going to give the town no information?

I think you need to take a look at all the votes that are floundering on and off the wagon...

I think we ALL should. Because, people complaining about the length of the day, have no grounds to do so, when we havent analysed the votes on him yet, to ascertain who looks scummy, and in what circumstances. It's time to force people to get some opinions down.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i've caught up... i'll try to remove all the fluff... (i'll save it so you can later ask for it if you want)

I'm VERY annoyed with gieff...

I recommend people to read BM in iso... he is Mr.Inconsistency.

Mr Inconsistency? Isn't that the same attack i just made on your buddy Jammer? Hey, and why is it only after i attack him that you finally decide to commit to a vote on me. I think i've hit the nail right on the head.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Alexhans

Gieff knows the score.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I

can't

sit idly at Gieff's horrendous claims.

^^meant to say can't

lmao, i'll let you off that one. Regarding Gieff, i dont really care if his comments about Camn's views aren't accurate. Neither of them are being lynched today, and the point isnt one that really poses relevance to eithers affiliation anyway. Camn DOES need to join the Alex wagon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm opposed to lynching Alexhans today yes.

what do YOU think of Jammer? In 50 words or more please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I challenge you to find me opposing an alex lynch.
I challenge you further to find me being "VERY" against it.

Why are you ignoring my challenge, Gieff?
I support an alex lynch.
I have never opposed an alex lynch.

You are starting to trip over your own misrepresentations, i think.

ugh, please quit latching onto this. You're only helping Gieff turn the thread into some kind of propaganda convention.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd

How do you guys feel about lynching Gieff today? You've all previously voted him.

Gieff is probably town imo. Therefore, i will not be stringing him up today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually not me, but I believe someone else in a previous game of mine confirmed they had seen day talk scum before.

Happen to recall which game this might be?

What I find interesting is benmage's parading about on how bad he thinks Mastin should be lynched immediately, but he wouldn't vote him before because he was worried about him not getting a response. Now he takes the first possible opportunity to get off that wagon.

re:alex--I'm not against his lynch today. My lynch preference order right now is Mastin, alex, benmage.

Mastin wagon is still in the lead and makes a great deal of sense if people would cease getting distracted by GIEFF.

Suck it up, and vote for Alex already.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So you were fine enough with a Mastin lynch to push him to lynch -1, but suddenly now after Alex posts, WHO HAS LOOKED SUSPICIOUS THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PRETTY MUCH MOST OF THE DAY ANYWAY, you're suddenly less ok with a Mastin lynch.

What the hell is the deal with that?

None of this is suddenly very new. All this evidence against Alex has been there for quite some time now.

What's changed since say... the start of today up to now? The fact that the town is becoming more open to the idea of lynching Mastin?

Every time the possibility of lynching Mastin becomes real, you look for another suspect. It's getting ridiculous.

You've just drawn level in the contest to be Alex's scumbuddy. Congrats.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Woot! I'm still alive, and VP Baltar is dead!

I remember i had lots to say at the end of day, but forget what. All i remember is anger. Lots of anger...

Will take a look now.

A rather happy,
BM

[Battle Mage]

@Battle Mage

I get a bloody point for those iso's! and doing something constructive during the night phase.

Battle Mage =1.5 Benmage =1.5

Haha, doing iso's at night seems a bit foolish to me. Especially if, like i did, you believed there was a good chance you'd be NKed. That said, i'm grateful that you did the Jammer one on my request. Will look at the content, when i've caught up and interpretted this wagon that you appear to have endured, and will ascertain whether i agree that you deserve a full point, or just half.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Benmage

wanna come out from under Sens's coat and explain your own vote? The Sens vote wasnt bad, but really that's mainly because it's Sens. You don't have the luxury of that meta.

Also, 1095 suggests that Camn and Benmage are highly unlikely to be scumbuddies.

Edit from looking down at the page: Can you guys please shut the hell up until ive finished catching up? Otherwise you're gonna add us another 3 pages in the next hour.

BM

[Battle Mage]

It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

KMD Gambit, huh?

@BattleMage:
Benmage said he was NOT particularly surprised that he was NOT nightkilled.
Do you think that is true?

It jives with his doing night isos as town...
but it doesn't jive with some of his phrasing early on.

Your thoughts?

Benmage seems pretty blatant town to me. His first post, was pretty much in the same vein as mine. I felt i was a likely NK candidate, and there was a contingent that wanted me lynched yesterday. So i can see why he might have kinda expected he might take a bullet. The iso's seem a bit odd, but the fact he did one on VP Baltar stinks of alot of effort being put in, if he was indeed scum.

The only scenario in which i could realistically see Benmage as scum for his morning outburst, is if he didnt want to kill VP, but was over-ruled by his team, after doing his iso read. But, for now, he's a helpful player, and i dont think that warrants a serious wagon at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No townie has that much content ready to post at daybreak.

lol fine fuck everyone u guys are dumb.

Unvote

vote Benmage

Wow, bro, easy with the language please... 0.o

Honestly, i dont understand what you guys were hoping to gain with the Benmage wagon. Especially after so many of you fucked up yesterday, you'd think you might have learnt something about NOT RUSHING THINGS.

Ok my bad on the swearing too.

Seriously tho, if he's town, he's doing a damn good job. If he's scum, he's giving us plenty of scope to analyse him. And tbh, if any of you have actually read, or even skimmed, his analysis of VP Baltar, it's pretty clear that, aside from the contingency i pointed out a few minutes ago, he is NOT scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol fine fuck everyone u guys are dumb.

Unvote

vote Benmage

I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

That's poor advice. If he self-votes/hammers in a newbie game, he will get banned, no?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Don't you mean 5 r-tards?

Or does your vote not count?

I meant already voted me, as in before I did...but sure clearly lump me in the r-tard section. Who wulda known all those iso reads could some be construed as scummy..go figure. Scum are gonna be lovin D2.

THIS is scummy.

(hey, i cant ALWAYS defend my namesake )

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jammer - the text-walls have very little to do with my vote.

Haha, i chuckled when i read this. You are voting somebody with a reasonably large wagon, despite complaining about the possibility of a quicklynch, and he isnt even your top suspect. Whats the deal?

BM

[Battle Mage]

So you are saying I am the sheep, Benmage?

If you flip town, I will not be jumping straight to Zach, jammer, OR Sens. I don't think others will, either. You need to calm down, and play rationally. Don't you think a self-vote is a bit of an over-reaction to L-3?

Lol, more humour!

The thing is, a wagon on Zach or Jammer, looked pretty appealing to me at the end of yesterday, and look pretty darn appealing now. Regardless of whether Benmage is town or not.

I commend the self-vote, as it certainly had the desired intention.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jammer - the text-walls have very little to do with my vote.

Haha, i chuckled when i read this. You are voting somebody with a reasonably large wagon, despite complaining about the possibility of a quicklynch, and he isnt even your top suspect. Whats the deal?

BM

The deal is he is scum. Please vote for him.

*facepalm*

I'm not feeling it. Why dont you help me form a Zach wagon?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Woot! I'm still alive, and VP Baltar is dead!

*unleashes the hounds* gogo Camn/Gieff.

Haha, doing iso's at night seems a bit foolish to me. Especially if, like i did, you believed there was a good chance you'd be NKed. That said, i'm grateful that you did the Jammer one on my request.

I had a lot of free time this weekend…got a little lazy toward the end, because I also feared I was going to get cap’d!

It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

KMD Gambit, huh?

@BattleMage:
Benmage said he was NOT particularly surprised that he was NOT nightkilled.
Do you think that is true?

It jives with his doing night isos as town...
but it doesn't jive with some of his phrasing early on.

Your thoughts?

Your so nitpicky it’s frustrating. I’m not particularly surprised as in I don’t know the mafia/their mentality...I don’t know who they’re gonna want to kill. ***Why do you think VPB was the killed person of the day? My fears are legitimate on the simple regards that if they picked the killed target at random it could’ve been me, and all my effort would’ve been wasted.

That's poor advice. If he self-votes/hammers in a newbie game, he will get banned, no?

Is this true? What’s the ruling in non-newbie games?

is there anything in the post that is actually relevant? lol

I'm sure i gave some opinions on your play. Wanna respond to those?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@benmage

Small question, why didn't you iso, zach?

He got more posts then the others you iso'd. But most posts of Zach are only one-liners. Shouldn't cost more time then the others. Any particulair reason you iso'd (scumpartner) SF and not Zach?

If I didn't state my reason before, I am basically voting you for bad arguments you use to put suspicion on me.

= OMGUS

BM

[Battle Mage]

I just told you I

wouldn't

do that, though. And I just have one vote, and have had lots of trouble getting people to follow me.

Your death, if you are town, will do absolutely nothing. So, if you are town, please play the game.

Note that the same is true if he is scum, atm.

@Benmage - id have liked to have seen a conclusion to the VP Baltar one. It couldve been the seal on your alignment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yeah, Zach the cop will tell you whose scum and day now right?

Scum and Day??

BM

[Battle Mage]

You'd have a point if you weren't voting for yourself. That destroys any credibility you thought you had.

I'm just asking for parting words, so the lynch isn't rushed you can take the credibility of the statements in anyway you'd like.

I really dont understand the point of this request if you are town. Care to enlighten me?

BM

[Battle Mage]

DO NOT SELF HAMMER!

FFS Don't do that to us.

Look at that game from our point of view. (The ones you think are r-tard town at least.)

Our reaction to the way you came out of night is quite reasonable. I hope you can take a look and see that.

Lol, why do you not want him to self-hammer? Your vote IS on him at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I do not want to lynch you right now, Benmage, and I did not at the time I cast my vote. It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

Lmao. I'll call that bluff.

Vote: Gieff

Until such a time as you explain what you meant by this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Whoever tries to speculate with nightkills, after voting Mastin for it, will be just bullshitting, at this point. (Benmage:1089)

SensFan makes yet another useless post.
Zach... Just vote? nothing else? come on...

I DONT like Benmage's waggon just for the daybreak posts... Are we seriously gonna follow yesterday's procedure?
Mastin went from NK speculation and you guys waggoned him.
Now BM does the same (despite he found this suspicious from Mastin's part) and you're all waggoning him at the speed of light? I agree it's weird. But let's take our time and discuss everyone's standings a bit more.

Benmage... if you're town... Self voting is stupid. Unvote/Vote whoever you suspect.

1119: GIEFF... I don't want to disrespect you so I'm gonna shut up. But you better meta me and find out if what you think is buddying to camn and all that *censored* you added is true or not.

My interest in Gieff has subsided only because of the new surge of idiocy.

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

Alex - what are your thoughts about Mastin, now that you know his alignment? What are your thoughts about Benmage flipping out yesterday because I said it seemed like he was flipping out?

My thoughts to Mastin's flip are... Anger about his commitment to this game, resignation to the fact town failed and a big sensation of I-told-you-so.

When did he flip out? 944? Your case was fabricated by your own mind...

1137: So... ACcording to you... it's Camn+Bemage+Alexhans?
1151 I though you were dead sure it was Camn+Ben+Alex to add zach jammer sens seems weird... Are you even sure who do you suspect?
-----------------------

We have Cephir, BCC/KAi and DDD Who are 3 People in this game that HAVENT contributed enough. They're unreadable. DDD even refuses to colaborate unless we ask him direct questions... For all we know they could be all scum.

-----------------------

MOD: What's up with Cephir?

ALEX NOTE: Replace out from any Cephir large games or find his house and shoot him.

Zach... rushing a lynch when several players haven't voted is anti-town.

I'm kinda busy now but I'll come back to show you why we need to lynch MR.fullofBS (also called Battle Mage). Who was also "woot" surprised he was not killed.

Cephrir used to be cool

Also, give up on the whole "BM-wagon" idea. It ain't gonna happen.

(i said that last time, and it did. If it works again, you owe me one. lmao)

Serious question-why criticise Zach for rushing a lynch, when our good buddy Gieff was as guilty of this, if not more?

BM

[Battle Mage]

is there anything in the post that is actually relevant? lol

I'm sure i gave some opinions on your play. Wanna respond to those?

BM

The part regarding camn was serious. The question about self-voting/self hammering and being banned was serious. The unleashing of the hounds was actually subtly semi-serious because thats where camn and gieff started their accusations at my first post. My "oh wow"...you did a similar post and It'll be peculiar if they simply ignore you.

I dont think so. Hopefully people will realise that the wagon on you for that, was retarded. A wagon on me for the same thing, after the wagon on you FAILED, would be even more dumb.

You'd have a point if you weren't voting for yourself. That destroys any credibility you thought you had.

I'm just asking for parting words, so the lynch isn't rushed you can take the credibility of the statements in anyway you'd like.

I really dont understand the point of this request if you are town. Care to enlighten me?

I wanted to give my piece in regards to essentially the things I asked Gieff and everyone to meditate on. Basically to refocus and not just allow my isos, namely their conclusions to fall under the radar. I asked this request so one couldn’t get away with a quick hammer.

Ok, i can buy this. *nods*

BM

[Battle Mage]

I do not want to lynch you right now, Benmage, and I did not at the time I cast my vote. It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

Lmao. I'll call that bluff.

Vote: Gieff

Until such a time as you explain what you meant by this.

BM

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 33#1786733

That's fair enough. *nods*

Unvote, Vote: Zach

Time for you to explain why you were so anxious about Ben self-hammering, when you allegedly thought he was scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Serious question-why criticise Zach for rushing a lynch, when our good buddy Gieff was as guilty of this, if not more?

That is simply not true. Read my iso, and read Zach's. Zach says we should quick-lynch Benmage, and I say we shouldn't.

Haha, your vote was on him. He was at -2. I dont think that reeks of someone who is especially worried about a quicklynch, do you? I realise you might have had good intentions-waiting to see Alex's reaction, but even so, you can hardly claim you were a beacon of caution.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Serious question-why criticise Zach for rushing a lynch, when our good buddy Gieff was as guilty of this, if not more?

That is simply not true. Read my iso, and read Zach's. Zach says we should quick-lynch Benmage, and I say we shouldn't.

Yes you said the right answers but your actions spoke differently. Playing both sides? Wolf in sheeps clothing?

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

BM

[Battle Mage]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10297

Go watch Zwet do it in this game.

I hate when people self hammer.

Now take your bullshit vote elsewhere.

Quit your jibber jabber, punk.

I really don't see why you would be worried about him self-hammering, when you think he is scum. If your vote is on him, you want him dead. It's not like a claim is going to save him. Your stance on this isn't scummy. It's just plain r?tarded.

Proper explanation please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Had Benmage reached L-1, I would have unvoted. I was being quite cautious.

Zach and I were BOTH voting for Benmage. Zach suggested quicklynch, and I said no. Isn't it a little silly to pressure ME over the quicklynch, rather than Zach?



Still waiting on that case, Zach.

Zach unvoted. Your vote remains on Ben. I'm not entirely sure why, if you were being serious earlier. It doesnt matter anyway. I still think you and Ben are probs town, and Zach is potentially scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I made very clear points about your vote not being where your suspicions are.

Stop acting like I don't have any reasoning.

It's not like he wasn't talking. I'm trying not to be mean here. I'd just like you to elaborate a little. Be more open. If you don't wanna take it, it's only gonna hurt you in the long run.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

ah, thought the zach post was directed at me. Apparently not. My comment stands tho.

BM

[Battle Mage]

MOD: What's up with Cephir?

I already posted about him and blackcatcontract in the morning post. Unless you're asking why he hasn't posted yet today, in which case I'd point out that this thread has been open less than 24 hours, and the majority of locations in the Americas aren't off 9-to-5 work yet. But you can't possibly mean that last question, because then I'd have to ask if your question was actually serious.

On another note, I'm finding it exceedingly hard to keep up with vote counts, because every time I try to preview there's at least 5 new posts to look over. So if you actually want to have regular vote counts, slow the hell down, because I refuse to do the impossible.

Why not post a votecount as often as you can, and then edit it, so you can keep track of any votes that occur while you are typing?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

We sat on a mastin wagon for how long???I mean I'm willing to see a lurker go because they are useless but still.. I doubt this achieves much .

vote Cephrir

I've seen Cephrir lurk as town, but he was part of a protown cult, whose win condition entailed survival. I dont see why he would want to stay in the game as town, if he doesnt intend to participate. Certainly, i dont wanna let lurker scum cruise to a victory.

The Mastin lynch was ridiculous. If Cephrir shows up, or this activity slows down, i'll go back and read the end of yesterday, and have a rant about that.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, I do appreciate the participation, don't get me wrong. There's just a point where it becomes exceedingly difficult for me to keep up as a mod, and this game is pushing that boundary. So I'd appreciate it being dialed back a bit, so I can keep up and do my modly duties properly.

Lol, you could be the first Mod to hire a team to help keep up with the game. xD

I'm only posting lots now coz im bored, and my other games are either full of lurky b'tards, or utterly pointless for me to say anything in.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

I would appreciate you finding that reason for me, as I prefer voting for BCC if we must do a lurker wagon.

I think you do make a good point though about the need to pressure the lurkers to actually participate.

Ok, will do. In the meantime, wanna fill me in on YOUR reasoning?

BM

[Battle Mage]

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

I thought his reasoning for voting me and to see my reaction and alex’s is soft. I don’t understand how he felt this more important than commenting on my iso’s. He could’ve commented and then voted me and accomplished both. But to so readily write off my efforts seemed possibly purposeful.
Yes I was sitting at L-2…he told others not to vote for me?? Yet was waiting to see Alex’s response… there sounds like possible subtly coaxing/coaching in that statement. Plus what was he anticipating? Had alex voted me I’d be L-1…someone not wanting to see my lynched is fine with me sitting L-1? I don’t mean to insult everyone’s play with this statement…but I don’t think a non-thoughtful hammer is too farfetched even from a town player.

It happened yesterday, if you believe Camn to be town. Personally i think she should be looked at again just for the hammer alone.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The part regarding camn was serious. The question about self-voting/self hammering and being banned was serious. The unleashing of the hounds was actually subtly semi-serious because thats where camn and gieff started their accusations at my first post. My "oh wow"...you did a similar post and It'll be peculiar if they simply ignore you.

Oh yeah..

Hey BattleMage...
If you were so worried about getting killed.. why did you do a bunch of Iso-reads during the night phase......

Oh wait.
You didn't.
It totally isn't the same thing at all.
Never mind.

And Ben.. ICs have rules regarding self-voting. Normal players don't.

In case you didnt notice, Benmage would qualify as an IC.

I believe somebody else pointed out the way you seem to be anti-Benmage, but havent deigned to join the wagon. Waiting to drop another stupid hammer?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach-why not Cephrir?

BM

[Battle Mage]

But seriously, I think we should bandwagon one of them. I would prefer blackcatcontract, as that "character" has had TWO posters lurk with it. And because Cephrir lurks a lot as town.

See, this is something we can both agree on. It must certainly be a good idea then.

*facepalm*

I DID look into why i felt BCC was likely to be town, and it stands, but isnt a meta i can reference. The same was true with Mastin, and you ignored me there. Maybe you can give me the benefit of the doubt this time?

My Cephrir vote stands. Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

They way he left that game left me thinking too. Mainly because if I was scum in a game like this, I probably would have found it as difficult to post as he did.

At any rate. I support lynching the lurkers if they won't participate. I would suggest that we give them a set amount of time to post something and then run them up if they fail to post any content within that period of time.

This is true. But i feel that we need to put them under pressure now so they might post sooner. We've waited forever anyway for Cephir at least.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yeah...

I thought he was scum.

You made a pretty big thing of an argument that he was town. That's another thing that bothers me about you.

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably be on you for as long as I am alive in this game, unless something happens at a critical moment in the game that convinces me that you are town.

is that because you've committed yourself so much that you can't be seen to backtrack now?

I'm not wagonning BCC until we've exhausted the Cephrir avenue. How's that for direction?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

From Post 326:


Mafia 82. He lurked quite severely, but not as bad as this game.

Consulmaker. You were in this game, Battle Mage. But the lurking, while bad, wasn't as bad as it is in this game.

Mafia 69. This game he wasn't as lurky, but I don't think he was a vanilla. His chars/day average just looks so low because he had one posts 3 months after he left the game - he was actually fairly active.


So he DOES lurk as town, but not as much as he has in this game. I no longer think that Cephrir's town-lurking meta is enough to excuse this level of inactivity. But I would still prefer a bcc/Kai lynch, as BOTH of them lurked, which makes the behavior more likely due to alignment than due to the poster.

Haha, i was in Mafia 82 as well! In fact, it's probably one of my all-time favourite games. xD

In that game, he might not have been the most active in the world, but he did participate, and he was around a fair bit.

The same is true of Consulmaker.

The pivotal difference here, is that he has NO investment in the game. No contribution. Nothing to actually gain by seeing the game out as town. On the other hand, if he thinks he can cruise the game as scum, then he's meeting his win condition just fine.

I think between us, we've satisfactorily proven that Cephrir is not playing to his town meta.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Certainly, i dont wanna let lurker scum cruise to a victory.

Clearly.

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

I thought his reasoning for voting me and to see my reaction and alex’s is soft. I don’t understand how he felt this more important than commenting on my iso’s. He could’ve commented and then voted me and accomplished both. But to so readily write off my efforts seemed possibly purposeful.
Yes I was sitting at L-2…he told others not to vote for me?? Yet was waiting to see Alex’s response… there sounds like possible subtly coaxing/coaching in that statement. Plus what was he anticipating? Had alex voted me I’d be L-1…someone not wanting to see my lynched is fine with me sitting L-1? I don’t mean to insult everyone’s play with this statement…but I don’t think a non-thoughtful hammer is too farfetched even from a town player.

It happened yesterday, if you believe Camn to be town. Personally i think she should be looked at again just for the hammer alone.

Huh, what happened yesterday? Her hammer was her following my voting pattern the whole day.

She didnt have to. I'm definitely not buying that as an excuse. Camn isnt a complete moron-she wouldnt, as town, make a hammer that she didnt believe in. Equally, I find it hard to believe that Camn, as town, would hammer somebody so obvtown.

I did not like Kai's early vote on Jammer.

They way he left that game left me thinking too. Mainly because if I was scum in a game like this, I probably would have found it as difficult to post as he did.

At any rate. I support lynching the lurkers if they won't participate. I would suggest that we give them a set amount of time to post something and then run them up if they fail to post any content within that period of time.

Because D1, the night phase etc etc wasn't long enough ?!!??!

QFT.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Do you lose half a point for making a monumental cock-up of that quoting? lol

Of course i wouldnt have hammered Mastin. Firstly, i was in favour of a far longer day. Secondly, it was SO fricking obvious that Mastin was town. His lurking was not scummy. Just because i couldnt reference the meta, doesnt mean i was wrong.

I'm not interested in Camn atm. Cephrir first, then if we dont lynch him, we go back to people like Jammer and Zach. Sound good?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Screw you battle, alright fail quote post. -.5 for me

BattleM=2 BenM=1

lol sarnath'd yet again. Whatever happens in this game, i wanna continue this BATTLE across the site. The lol's are far greater than i expected xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok, you got it. Now, i'm gonna go to sleep, and look forward to catching up on around 5 pages tomorrow morning.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*major facepalm*

Reading this page alone, i feel i should say something along the lines of:

You guys suck!

Though that's directed solely at Alex, Jammer and Gieff (although less so the latter). BCC is an inferior wagon to Cephrir. But as nobody is going to trust me AGAIN, i'm best off pursuing a new route.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

"reading this page" clearly refers to the PREVIOUS page.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why the Cephrir wagon over the bcc wagon? bcc and Kai BOTH lurked.

Battle Mage, why can't you share your meta read of bcc? He is in no other games on-site.

You've already seen that Cephrir does not play like this as town. There shouldnt even be an issue here.

I'm not saying any more on BCC. As far as i'm concerned, you can trust me, or not trust me. But, if you dont trust me, i'd rather you explained why:

A. You think i'm scum.
B. You think i'm thick.

Or, if you have some extra time on your hands, both.

BM

[Battle Mage]

(On a side note...if someone *cough* me *cough* hypothetically caught another being an..hmm...r-tard in another thread, and posted...would the mod of that thread go berserk?)...i don't have anything in mind...just curious.

eh?

[Battle Mage]

You're so full of it BM... Your whole move to clear yourself from Mastin's lynch is really clear... You "suspected" him and waggoned him but when it was certain he was getting lynched you came out to say he was town??? come on...

I'll be home in about an hour. See you then.

Kid, first off, can you please do everyone here a favour? Just try and talk with a little respect? Whether or not you BELIEVE i am scum, the fact remains that you're wrong, and nobody is going to take anything you say seriously if you look at me with the mentality that i am scum, when this is a game of OBJECTIVITY.

If you'd done your research, you'd know WHY i was against the Mastin lynch. You see, while he was being run up here, he was also being run up in another game of mine. His play was remarkable similar, and most importantly, he was TOWN. That's the value of meta, but ofc, i couldnt reference this at the time, and probably shouldnt be referencing it now. But i'm making a point. That is why i was so sure Mastin's lurking was not scummy.

Now, are you gonna play the game today, or what?

BM

[Battle Mage]

You're so full of it BM... Your whole move to clear yourself from Mastin's lynch is really clear... You "suspected" him and waggoned him but when it was certain he was getting lynched you came out to say he was town??? come on...

I agree this is scummy. Battle Mage switched VERY quickly from voting Mastin to calling him "almost certainly town."

You can see the above post as well then. Furthermore, how come you have not pursued Alex further, after waiting so long to get a reaction from him regarding Benmage. Did you not think his distancing from the wagon was scummy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm still not convinced Alexhans is scum Gieff.

I'm curious to know what you think about Battlemage's resistance toward lynching BCC. Especially after stating a desire to focus on me and Jammer after a Cephrir lurker lynch. (Which seems to imply he would due this if BCC continued to lurk.)

Unvote: Vote: blackcatcontract

It looks like the preferred lynch is Cephrir. I still prefer BCC and think we should consider lynching both if they refuse to participate or be replaced.

I'm willing to switch to Cephrir if necessary, but I will note I don't like Battlemage's selectiveness here.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now. I'm not happy with you continually blowing smoke in my direction, but being too damn wimpy to actually substantiate it.

Regarding your question above, yes, i was not intending to pursue BCC as a secondary candidate after Cephrir, because i feel BCC is probs town.

I don't see why my "selectiveness" is any worse than yours. But, as i say, you can either vote for Cephrir, vote for me, or apologise for casting doubt on my allegiances.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I honestly can't care less what lurker is being voted. Let make BattleMage happy.

Unvote: BCC
Vote: Cephrir

Unvote, Vote: Cephrir

*is happy*

BM

[Battle Mage]

This posting rate is hurting the game. I'm falling behind.

Vote GIEFF

because I wanted to lynch him yesterday.

openly playing for consistency points?

BM

[Battle Mage]

GIEFF... what about BM's OMG im alive? Isn't that scummy?

Haha, hypocrite. Camn also addressed this earlier.

1354: Fair enough. But there's too many times where you've totally convinced and you later changed your mind in lue of a more convenient waggon.

That's how i roll. I'm capable of changing my opinion.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now

I'd like that... because I figure that if tomorrow Cephir flips town you're gonna come up with some excuse...

Vote BCC

(let's see how this rolls)

Haha, planning multiple lynches in advance? Naughty Naughty! xD

People who should lower their posts a great deal:

GIEFF, Benmage, Battle Mage, (ok, maybe me, I'm busier anyway)

I'm not lowering my posting. And if anything, you should increase yours. Don't think i havent noticed your lurking today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alexhans is not lurking.

... and Battlemage has cast votes for both me AND Gieff. Playing both sides much?

Both were votes to get you to participate. Don't give me that crap.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage screw your plead for civility.... You're lame

*Alexhans is greatly supressing his urge to swear more insulting words.

1) I told you as soon as I could that you were doing the same thing Benmage did. Saying oh.. wow... glad im alive...
3)You Planned multiple lynches with me and mastin. I'm not doing it. I think before I lynch someone.
4) I can't up my posting atm. I'm pretty busy and you're just adding fluff to the game so nobody can catch up.

1. As i said in the above post, which you OBVIOUSLY DIDNT READ, Camn has already explained why my comments are not being viewed in the same light as Ben's were. And in any case, given you feel that Ben is not scummy, why do you think i am scummy for behaving in, as you put it yourself, THE EXACT SAME WAY? lmao

3. No, i didnt. If i recall, i said that if you were scum, he was town. There's no second lynch there.

Also, what happened to your numbering?? And, once again, i'll make the request: Please try and act a bit more mature. This is a game, and your constant whinging is just making it less fun for the rest of us. I'm trying my hardest to be nice to you, but it isn't easy, when you keep digging at me...

BM

[Battle Mage]

you try hardest calling me a hypocrite or something worst everytime you have a chance? That's not cool.

Lol, it's not a random insult. It's game relevant. That's the discernible difference between you and I. I'm focussed on trying to win the game. You're just concerned with getting rid of people who don't bow to your whims.

the numbering responds to the paragraphs you made.

about 1. GIEFF, SF and Zach found Ben scummy for what he did. I wonder if they think your "wow, Im alive" post is scummy too or not. You called me a hypocritce for asking GIEFF a question about something I had already pointed out.

I dont think the reason they found him scummy was because of that aspect of his opening. Or at least, not that alone.

Do YOU think my opening post was scummy? If so, why are you not attacking Ben for it?

I'm pretty mature unless someone keeps trying to throw me off like you've done all game long.

Lol, you're doing all of that yourself. I dont think anyone had even mentioned you until you came in here with that tantrum!

BM

[Battle Mage]

you try hardest calling me a hypocrite or something worst everytime you have a chance? That's not cool.

the numbering responds to the paragraphs you made.

about 1. GIEFF, SF and Zach found Ben scummy for what he did. I wonder if they think your "wow, Im alive" post is scummy too or not. You called me a hypocritce for asking GIEFF a question about something I had already pointed out.

I'm pretty mature unless someone keeps trying to throw me off like you've done all game long.

FTR: I find Battlemage's "wow, I'm alive" post scummy.

#

Was it you who i called out for blowing smoke last night?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I want to lynch scum. I want to lynch you.

These 2

mutually exclusive

claims go together like chalk and cheese.

The fact that you defended BCC over Cephir makes me confident about not voting Cephir.

You are basing this on the assumption that i am scum. If you believe that to be the case, why lynch a lurker anyway?

The tantrum proved to be right. Mastin was waggoned for NK speculating, then his lynched became a viable choice. Later, his lurking added to the case and he ended up lynched. So I had every right to do what I did.

Thr tantrum was today. Mastin was already dead. His lurking was not scummy. Other than that, he was pretty scummy. You havent really been able to refute this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not saying any more on BCC. As far as i'm concerned, you can trust me, or not trust me. But, if you dont trust me, i'd rather you explained why:

I'm not saying why I don't trust you. As far as I'm concerned, you can trust my judgment, or not trust it. But if you don't trust it, etc. etc.

Is it a Kai-read or a bcc-read that makes you sure that character is town?

Lol, you havent given any sense of having additional knowledge that suggests Cephrir is town or BCC is scum. If you had, maybe you'd have a point. I'm not answering any more questions on my position-especially when you should be painfully aware that Cephrir is playing to his scum meta.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Personally I am curious as to why Battlemage is being so selective with the lurker lynching.

Though I'm sure I stated that before.

you did say that before. Word for word. Grammatical error and all. xD

- 0.5 Zach

Now, man up and vote for me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Camn - I've heard rumors that you support lurker-lynches. Do you prefer lynching Cephrir or bcc?

I seem to recall her saying BCC, but i could be wrong.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not saying any more on BCC. As far as i'm concerned, you can trust me, or not trust me. But, if you dont trust me, i'd rather you explained why:

I'm not saying why I don't trust you. As far as I'm concerned, you can trust my judgment, or not trust it. But if you don't trust it, etc. etc.

Is it a Kai-read or a bcc-read that makes you sure that character is town?

Lol, you havent given any sense of having additional knowledge that suggests Cephrir is town or BCC is scum. If you had, maybe you'd have a point. I'm not answering any more questions on my position-especially when you should be painfully aware that Cephrir is playing to his scum meta.

BM

He hasn't, but I have.

I'll go even further on Cephrir. I played a game with him where he was scum, and the tone of his lurking was completely different than the tone of his lurking in this game, and actually looks consistent with Gieff's analysis of Ceph's lurking as town.

You're the one who's unable to explain why you have no interest in lynching BCC, and make no mistake about it, if a BCC lynch pops scum, you are next on my lynch list.

Ok, if you can provide a link to that game with Cephrir, that'd be awesome. Because, as i'm sure you're aware, Gieff and myself have provided several meta examples that suggest Cephrir is scum here.

If you've bothered to look at any of Gieff's links btw, you'll see that they do NOT support his original claim. He hasnt even attempted to refute this, because it's a damn FACT.

I perfectly understand that if BCC is scum, i'll probably be strung up. That's the price you pay when you defend someone. But, i said it with Mastin, and i was right. I dont see why i shouldnt be right here.

And btw, if you believe im scum, your vote should be on me. Because, as scum, why would i really put myself out so much to try and save a lurkerbuddy, who will probably end up modkilled anyway?

BM

[Battle Mage]

But, i said it with Mastin, and i was right. I dont see why i shouldnt be right here.

If you will recall, the only reason you started saying Mastin was town was because you thought alex was scum.

That was at the beginning of Day 1. I dont even remember it being up for discussion by the time Mastin was actually lynched.

The fact that you defended BCC over Cephir makes me confident about not voting Cephir.

You are basing this on the assumption that i am scum. If you believe that to be the case, why lynch a lurker anyway?

So if your suspicions were right, why lynch a lurker instead of alexhans?

Eh? I dont get you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you've bothered to look at any of Gieff's links btw, you'll see that they do NOT support his original claim. He hasnt even attempted to refute this, because it's a damn FACT.

My original claim was that he contributes less as town than as scum (in terms of characters / day).

In any case, we have established that Cephrir DOES lurk as town, although never to this degree. But he hasn't ever lurked as scum to this degree, either.

I will look into bcc and Kai's metas when I have a chance, but the fact that TWO players have lurked with the same character seems telling.

Check out Freelancer Mafia. Cephrir and i were both part of a protown cult. But, the main aspect of our win condition was getting a majority within the town. Cephrir aimed to fulfill this win condition by simply lurking the game away, after he was recruited. Notice that his activity was relatively high until his win condition changed.

Cephrir was not lurking in either of the games you linked me to. He was just posting at his normal frequency. Here, he has NO investment in the game whatsoever, yet he wants to play on. That doesnt strike you as odd?

BCC at least, has only just joined the game, and might genuinely intend to catch up.

I think you are drastically over-stating the significance of 2 people finding it hard to get into the game as opposed to 1. It's scummy, but i dont think it even comes close to the evidence on Cephrir.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So if your suspicions were right, why lynch a lurker instead of alexhans?

Eh? I dont get you.

BM

You voted Mastin.
You quickly turned around and called Mastin town, because you thought alex was scum, which implied Mastin-town.
Mastin is town.
So why aren't you voting alex?

Or was there other factors that led you to believe Mastin was town?

Alex-scum meant Mastin-town. But Mastin-town does not mean Alex-scum. Ugetme?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I feel like I've done this before in this game, but whatever...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10864

It doesn't look like Ceph starts lurking until deep into this game. Yet this is one example. Gieff provided 4 examples of Ceph as town lurking differently than this game as well. In truth, at this point there isn't enough information for bcc or ceph and I'm down to lynch either. It still boggles my mind how people sign-up for these games, and than don't play them. (urges..not to post arghbargle)

Actually, Zach's example looks good. That's about the level of participation we normally see from Cephrir-town, although there was a bit of inactivity mingled in the middle.

But if you look at all the examples Gieff and I have referenced, i think you'll be able to sympathise with my view on Ceph-scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes, I understand that, BM. But you were so confident in Mastin-town for this reason alone, that when your suspicions were confirmed, I'd think you would have gone straight to alex.

There was no other reason for thinking Mastin was town?

I'm not sure how much of the game you are following. I have already said several times today that my main reason for being so sure Mastin was town, was that he was playing exactly the same in another game of mine, where he was also town.

Im still not sure on Alex. Newbie? Definitely. Scum? I dunno... :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, Zach's example looks good. That's about the level of participation we normally see from Cephrir-town, although there was a bit of inactivity mingled in the middle.

Cephrir was scum in that game.

I know. Thats...what i just said.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, Zach's example looks good. That's about the level of participation we normally see from Cephrir-town, although there was a bit of inactivity mingled in the middle.

Cephrir was scum in that game.

lol... did he seriously try to pass off that Ceph was town in that game?

Erm, no i didnt. Wtf are you guys smoking?? *cries*

Unvote, Vote: Zach

I dont see your value to the game if you arent going to read, and are merely going to ride Gieff's coattails all game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

But you're right, BM, you later said that you didn't think his lurking was scummy, and saw him taking pressure for it in other games.

I dont see the relevance of the post you quoted. And you dont need to patronise me. I'm well aware that i'm right. Usually am.

BM

[Battle Mage]

This is simple.

Cephrir's play does not fit her play as town or as scum. She has NEVER lurked this much before. In past games, she contributes less as town than as scum, so I'm inclined to think that NO participation is more a town-tell than a scum-tell, although not strong either way.

did you take a look at Freelancer? Thought not.

But blackcatcontract, on the other hand, hasn't posted in this thread (or on site) for 10 days. The fact that he responded to Yaw means that he IS coming back to the site, but without posting anywhere. I don't know why a townie would do this. If there aren't other games bringing bcc back, it has to be this one, and if it's THIS game bringing him back to the site, why hasn't he posted in it for the last 10 days?

How many other games is he in?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage - it really looked like you were saying Ceph was town. Zach wasn't and hasn't been riding my coattails at all.

You said Zach's example looks good, as if it reinforced your point. You said that level of activity (i.e. high) is about the level of participation we normally see from Cephrir-town. Do you see why it looks like you were assuming Cephrir was town?

Can you explain what you meant by your quote, and why we should have known you were assuming Cephrir-scum?

I was pointing out to Ben that Zach's counterexample was valid. But it doesnt sway me much from the insurmountable evidence suggesting Cephrir is scum. Or at least, scummier than BCC.

Ya know, despite me making a tit of myself about 20 or so pages ago, it would be awful nice if you didnt treat me like an idiot.
Please also assume that i'm being objective, because thats what im going for. Dont automatically assume that everything i say, is something to further my own Anti-Town goals. -.-

If you dont know what i mean by something- ASK.

Regarding Zach, i suggest you look closer at the post of his where he trusts your judgement on me 100%, without even attempting to look for himself. Seems to me, like he knows you are town. Why else would he blindly follow something just because you said it. It makes me angry.

BM

[Battle Mage]

bcc is in ZERO other games, AFAIK.

What alignment was Cephrir in Freelancer?

Protown Cult-Recruit.

Pretty sure ive said this twice already, but hey-ho.

Basically, Cephrir's participation was relatively normal until recruited by me, at which point, he petered out.

I will note for clarity, that whilst we were a protown cult, the scum was already mostly dead by this time, and we were focussed on fulfilling the other aspect of our win condition- Gaining a majority within the town. AKA, the typical scum win condition.

Now, it's painfully obvious that as soon as his win condition changed, Cephrir didnt bother posting any more, because he knew that survival was all that was necessary.

Just like he is doing here. Cept, we dont have protown cults. We have vanillas and scum.

Hence, Cephrir is scum.

Regarding BCC, maybe he intends to come back but cant get into the reread. Seems reasonable if he genuinely has no other site commitments. I played mafia on another site once, and with 1 game there, i didnt feel quite the lure that i do here, with several.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, Zach's example looks good. That's about the level of participation we normally see from Cephrir-town, although there was a bit of inactivity mingled in the middle.

Cephrir was scum in that game.

lol... did he seriously try to pass off that Ceph was town in that game?

Erm, no i didnt. Wtf are you guys smoking?? *cries*

Unvote, Vote: Zach

I dont see your value to the game if you arent going to read, and are merely going to ride Gieff's coattails all game.

BM

Hilarious.

Lol, i know! It's been a long time coming as well

BM

[Battle Mage]

Just for anyone that will have trouble catching up. Battlemage is voting me for a misunderstanding that he caused.

Also, meta isn't everything, but meta, along with my reasoning on Kai earlier and my gut feeling, is why I support lynching BCC over Cephrir.

I can take your meta on Ceph on board, but it'd be awfully good if you could look at mine too. Just to get a better perspective.

And dont blatantly misrep me. I'd like to think most people here are going to read themselves, and see why i am voting for you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Regarding Zach, i suggest you look closer at the post of his where he trusts your judgement on me 100%, without even attempting to look for himself. Seems to me, like he knows you are town. Why else would he blindly follow something just because you said it. It makes me angry.

BM

What the hell are you talking about?

It's unbelievable how full of shit you are.

Lol, you're starting to remind me of someone... xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

I did ask,

Seems to me like you just assumed i had misunderstood. But this doesnt really matter now.

BM, and I'm not being condescending. I don't see this insurmountable evidence you're talking about, and I don't see why you are ignoring the fact that bcc came back to the site to respond to Yaw, but not for ANY OTHER PURPOSE, as he's in no other games. Or the fact that his predecessor also lurked and replaced out.

Frankly, that means absolutely nothing. His ties to the site are weak, so he might pick up a pm (i believe some people get notification by email), but not have the time or inclination to actually take the plunge. I've been there, and i can relate to that.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*facepalm*

Post 1398. Keeps up guys!

BM

[Battle Mage]

there was really no need for an iso read. lol

Ok, dinner time. Will cya in a bit!

xxx

[Battle Mage]

*facepalm*

Post 1398. Keeps up guys!

BM

You fail.

A badly worded post that I interpreted the same way as Gieff after he pointed it out means nothing.

you didnt interpret it at all. You just took his response, and assumed he was correct.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*facepalm*

Post 1398. Keeps up guys!

BM

....


You asked if he was going to ride my coattails "all game," which implies a pattern of behavior, so I looked to find this pattern, and it didn't exist.

As I asked before, don't you see why your post made it look like you assumed Cephrir was scum? I thought you just made an honest mistake. Re-read it from an outsider's perspective.

No. I think you assumed that everything i say is going to be pushing the view that Ceph is scum here. In actuality, i'm trying to ascertain whether or not that is the case, taking into account the evidence. That's what i was doing. Taking into account the evidence. It was your mistake.

But that doesnt matter. So is there any merit to going over this. We found the tell from Zach, so i'm happy.

[Battle Mage]

Stars aligned last post:
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:24 pm

Only 6 votes? Pah!

Vote: Mastin

It actually might be in the town's best interest to lynch him, lol. I know I for one will be a lot less likely to lurk if he's gone early DX

Open 155 Jugnle Republic
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:43 pm

zzzzz(was a long one)zzzz

Our game:
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: 5

Present. Unexpectedly limited access these past few days, should be all set tomorrow but then again I said tomorrow once and was totally wrong so who knows.

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: 4

Whoops, forgot, prodded. Reading a thread with Mastin in it has literally given me a headache, I'll finish tomorrow.

So she hasn’t posted here in 9 days. Two posts in a total of 14 days. Yet has posted more recently on other threads. String this chic up.

i thought Cephrir was a he? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

quoth the scum

[Battle Mage]

What part did you not understand of BM, GIEFF, Benmage should bring their posts down, drastically?

It's impossible to catch up as it is. And most of the stuff you guys are adding is fluff (Specially BM's, he quotes entire posts to write 1 sentence, STOP)

Lol quit jivin me with ur hate-mail.

BM