Stars Aligned - GAME OVER

[ZykeZero]

Even if Mastin was joking, it was in poor taste because he drew suspicion onto himself. I've done this before, throwing myself out in the open in hopes people would think that I am too smart too do that. It's worked for a while but it inevitable back fires.

Vote: Mastin

[nhammen]

If all people that heard noise use wards on those who heard no noise, and enough people use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard no noise, town will be in pretty good shape.

The people who heard no noise N0 are not in danger of being killed N1. As I see it, the people who heard noise but didn't get warded are the ones that are in danger of being NK'd N1.

That's why they should use Wards on people that heard no noise. Wards don't protect against kills, they protect against preparations for kills. The Resuscitation Kits should be used on the unwarded people that heard noise. If there are enough left over, they should also be used on the people that used wards, because these people are unprotected.

You can add me to the noise and NO ward list. I did nothing last night, and I heard noise. I need to catch up with everything in 4 different games, so give me a while to post something more substantial.

Night0 noise-claims:

Ward:
Kise

Noise (Ward unclaimed):
Drench
Tuberkulos
xxFabianxx

Noise and no Ward:
arelian
dramonic
Exalt
Mastin

No Noise:
12Keyblade
chenhsi
Datadanne
DeathNote
EriktheRed
JamesBond
jasonT1981
Magua
nhammen
ZykeZero

Unclaimed:
Cephrir (has only confirmed)
itacv2(has only confirmed)
Nyx (asked about fake noise claims)
Santos (has only confirmed / asked for replacement)
Sarag (wanted discussion before claiming)
semioldguy (just replaced in)
sideney (asked who got noise but never answered the question himself)

And I forgot to do this last post, but

vote: Nyx

because his asking could be an attempt to add WIFOM to the noise claims. Not very scummy, but right now it's the best I've got. If someone else starts to look particularly scummy, I'll vote them.

[xxFabianxx]

I didn't Ward anyone last night, I equiped another item.

FoS James Bond

for Post 90 for stating the obvious and trying to come across as town by making it seem like the idea was his own.

[Magua]

BTW, in case it isn't obvious, using ward on someone that heard noise last night, but was not involved in a Ward is useless, because they can already be targeted for death. Also, if enough people equipped resuscitation kits last night, I believe we can prevent pretty much any death. If all people that heard noise use wards on those who heard no noise, and enough people use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard no noise, town will be in pretty good shape.

If you mean "use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard noise" rather than "heard

no

noise", I agree.

As far as fake noise claims: assuming that no one did something like resuscitate last night, any noise claims represent a stalk or a fetish. Anyone who stalked is pretty much going to try to murder tonight, so those people will either be saved or they'll be dead. Easy to verify either way. From the pool of the rest, we would have a good upper bound on the number of scum we're dealing with, *and* we get a better chance of doctoring someone. This seems like a win to me.

Tomorrow might be more difficult with a noise claim, as Resuscitate creates noise for the target if it's not successful, but we can deal with that later.

[Nyx]

What stops anyone from claiming noise when there was none just to be safe ? Also warding someone creates noise and insanity so I don't think claiming either is fool proof because it's too easy to fake.

Only scum would want to misdirect town in this manner. If they claimed noise and nobody warded them, then they are insinuating that they were the target of a stalk or craft fetish. This could potentially draw resuscitation kits where none are needed. Other than this, there isn't too much of a problem. If there are enough kits in the town, this is not a problem either.

Would not only scum also not want this to be known so they can use it as WIFOM ? Not taking in account all possibilities while creating a list isn't really effective.
The reason I mentioned it is because I questioned the noise claiming. We need more then just hearing noise to be sure if we want to protect a certain person or before people jump to conclusions of who got targeted or not. We shouldn't make hasty decisions.



I can't see the reason why Mastin would claim something like that. If he's actually a cultist going murderer we'll check him for blood. And if he's a Townie he created unwanted confusion and chaos something only scum would benefit from.

Vote: Mastin

[Tuberkulos]

If you mean "use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard noise" rather than "heard no noise", I agree

This is what I meant.

I warded xXFabianXx.

[Nyx]

Before I forget I didn't hear noise.

[xxFabianxx]

I knew you had a thing for me.

[12Keyblade]

BTW, I didn't ward last night. I'm also going to

Unvote

for now, with knowledge that I am considering voting Mastin.

[Tuberkulos]

You know I do. Ridicoulus... I meant ridiculous Ms. Fabio.

ZykeZero, what was it exactly in Mastin's post that drew suspicion onto him, in your opinion? And do you think it was on purpose?

[nhammen]

BTW, in case it isn't obvious, using ward on someone that heard noise last night, but was not involved in a Ward is useless, because they can already be targeted for death. Also, if enough people equipped resuscitation kits last night, I believe we can prevent pretty much any death. If all people that heard noise use wards on those who heard no noise, and enough people use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard no noise, town will be in pretty good shape.

If you mean "use resuscitation kits to cover all of the people that heard noise" rather than "heard

no

noise", I agree.

As far as fake noise claims: assuming that no one did something like resuscitate last night, any noise claims represent a stalk or a fetish. Anyone who stalked is pretty much going to try to murder tonight, so those people will either be saved or they'll be dead. Easy to verify either way. From the pool of the rest, we would have a good upper bound on the number of scum we're dealing with, *and* we get a better chance of doctoring someone. This seems like a win to me.

Tomorrow might be more difficult with a noise claim, as Resuscitate creates noise for the target if it's not successful, but we can deal with that later.

Yes, I meant res kits should target only people that have heard noise. Also, if they have heard noise once, they should keep being targeted by res kits, at least until there is a success, or the number of players hearing noise outnumber the number not, so hearing noise on later nights does not matter too much (it only means that if multiple fetishes were created, we don't know).

[nhammen]

Would not only scum also not want this to be known so they can use it as WIFOM ? Not taking in account all possibilities while creating a list isn't really effective.
The reason I mentioned it is because I questioned the noise claiming. We need more then just hearing noise to be sure if we want to protect a certain person or before people jump to conclusions of who got targeted or not. We shouldn't make hasty decisions.



I can't see the reason why Mastin would claim something like that. If he's actually a cultist going murderer we'll check him for blood. And if he's a Townie he created unwanted confusion and chaos something only scum would benefit from.

Vote: Mastin

Oh god double negatives... Also, noise claims tell us who to protect. If someone did not hear noise, they cannot be killed tomorrow night, and so should not be targeted by a res kit. If there aren't enough res kits to cover everyone, then at least we know what set of people need to be targeted.

Night0 noise-claims:

Ward:
Kise
Tuberkulos

Noise (Ward unclaimed):
Drench

Noise and no Ward:
arelian
dramonic
Exalt
Mastin
xxFabianxx (Tuberkulos claims to have warded him)

No Noise:
12Keyblade
chenhsi
Datadanne
DeathNote
EriktheRed
JamesBond
jasonT1981
Magua
nhammen
Nyx
ZykeZero

Unclaimed:
Cephrir (has only confirmed)
itacv2(has only confirmed)
Santos (has only confirmed / asked for replacement)
Sarag (wanted discussion before claiming)
semioldguy (just replaced in)
sideney (asked who got noise but never answered the question himself)

[chenhsi]

Based on what I know of Mastin from reading MD, I really don't think this is any different from what he normally does. It's scummy, but I'm not really suspicious of him.

The problem with protecting people that heard noise and warding people that didn't is that it stops us from doing anything else like investigating or researching.

[nhammen]

Based on what I know of Mastin from reading MD, I really don't think this is any different from what he normally does. It's scummy, but I'm not really suspicious of him.

The problem with protecting people that heard noise and warding people that didn't is that it stops us from doing anything else like investigating or researching.

Assume about 1/4 of all players heard noise last night. Then those 1/4 are targeted by res kits. Those 1/4 also use wards, if they have them on players that heard no noise. So 1/4 use res kits, and 1/4 use wards. This leaves 1/2 to do whatever. On later nights, you are correct. If 1/2 of players have heard noise, the half that didn't uses kits on the half that did, and the half that did uses wards on the half that didn't. This almost means nobody can die. Except kits get used up, meaning the people using kits have to launder, then re-equip, during which there is a player left exposed, that can be killed. In the end, this idea means that cultists can only kill every other night, if I did my math right, which is most likely more beneficial than an investigation.

[Magua]

Based on what I know of Mastin from reading MD, I really don't think this is any different from what he normally does. It's scummy, but I'm not really suspicious of him.

Isn't that why he does it, though? So you won't be suspicious of him even when he's scum? It seems to me a tactic that only helps you when you're scum, and only hurts the town when you're not scum. That is, it is a 100% anti-town tactic.

What would it take to make you suspicious of Mastin, then?

[Cephrir]

I did not hear noise last night. Obviously, I also did not ward, much as I do expect that there was a significant amount of stalking last night.

I don't know how many votes Mastin has, but I would vote him if there wasn't a wagon more based on not wanting to read his posts than on the posts he's made so far.

Preventing half the scum kills (if that's what this plan would successfully do, I didn't bother to think about whether it works) seems OK. And surely we might be able to do a little investigating so long as everyone at least says they'll save someone so the cultists won't know who to go after =P

[Nyx]

Oh god double negatives... Also, noise claims tell us who to protect. If someone did not hear noise, they cannot be killed tomorrow night, and so should not be targeted by a res kit. If there aren't enough res kits to cover everyone, then at least we know what set of people need to be targeted.

That I agree with.

[Mastin]

Oh no! I've become predictable...

Yea. Voting me when I claim scum-->Classic predictable scum maneuver. I mean, come on, it's just so easy.

Considering the only viable/possible action that causes insanity night 0 is stalk, I'm not sure you should claim it Mastin

*Twitch*

What, I like faking insanities. After all, when people call me crazy, I always have to correct them and call myself insane.

You claim serial killer. But you're Mastin. Yet you've claimed scum.

... This is just going in circles.

Vote: Mastin

Welcome to my main. Gonna miss the me that you knew, Erik?
(Insider joke. Don't ask.)

I do not know Mastin. However, I know I do not like people who claim scum, even as a joke. It strikes me as excessively anti-town; since the scum already know whether or not Mastin is scum, the only people he could be WIFOMing would be the town. Why do that?

Vote: Mastin

I have a Meta of doing it. 'Tis null from me.

Here's why it is null, and why I do it:

I do it in most of my games. This can be confirmed by people who've played with me before. Or people who know me in MD well enough. They can very easily back it up as a null tell. It's something which is meant for one purpose:

Reactions.
It *kills* the RVS, which I hate with a passion. Like, really, really hate with an extreme passion. Like "kill the RVS before the game starts"-hate.

It works extremely well at getting reactions. From said reactions, we scum hunt.

Doesn't matter if people scum hunt and target me.

I'm pro-town, and with a calm, collected, cool-headed mind, I can respond, explain why I do this tactic, defend myself, and turn the inevitable wagon on me back on track to finding scum.

This is COMPLETELY unproductive to the town. STOP! This can only mislead the town. We get it: you like to start games with a Slayer's Gambit. However it causes you to dominate the discussion, thus allowing scum to hide in the bastardry that you introduce into the game.

Slayer's and Fong's, actually.

And it's alright to dominate the discussion, nham.
It's discussion.
Where there was only randomness before.

I'd gladly purposefully make myself look more scummy if the reward is that the RVS ends. It works every time.
I know. It's scummy in appearance.
And I know. It can potentially allow scum to hide.

But when discussion inevitably shifts away from me, then we'll almost certainly have plenty to work with when doing true scum hunting.

Short-term, it might not be that productive to the rest of the town. Temporarily allows scum to hide very, very well.
Long-term, it almost certainly is. Helps expose the scum for their voting patterns early-on.

And this shows he really was faking that particular insanity. However, he could have been faking it to hide another.

Way to expose the fake insanity way to soon, Nham. <_<

Currently I am ignoring him, but because of his activities, and the fact that scum could hide behind this so very well, he must die before the game ends.

Aye. But considering the fact that I heard noise, I can almost guarantee you that I'll be dead by tomorrow.

I can't see the reason why Mastin would claim something like that. If he's actually a cultist going murderer we'll check him for blood. And if he's a Townie he created unwanted confusion and chaos something only scum would benefit from.
Vote: Mastin

Obviously, someone hasn't been paying attention.

---

Also, the fact that I heard noise kinda semi-clears me, wouldn't it?
Unless someone claims to have warded me, I was targeted by a killing role. Be it cult, or a Murderer this early in the game, I still was targeted by a killing role, hence, semi-clear. (Not clear, of course. Just less likely to be scum.)

For the moment,

Mastin Unvotes,
Mastin Votes: Nyx

.
Serious bandwagon, while ignoring the reasoning behind not voting me.

[Percy]

Vote Count

Mastin - 6 (Tuberkulos, sideney, EriktheRed, Magua, ZykeZero, Nyx)

Nyx - 2 (nhammen, Mastin)
12Keyblade - 1 (arelian)

Not Voting - 16 (12Keyblade, Cephrir, chenhsi, Datadanne, DeathNote, dramonic, Drench, Exalt, itacv2, JamesBond, jasonT1981, Kise, Santos, Sarag, semioldguy, xxFabianxx)

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

[Mastin]

Mastin - 6 (Tuberkulos, sideney, EriktheRed, Magua, ZykeZero, Nyx)

How much do you want to be that there are at least two, maybe three scum on that wagon?

Me, oh, I'll be a thousand dollars or so on it.

[Magua]

Reactions.
It *kills* the RVS, which I hate with a passion. Like, really, really hate with an extreme passion. Like "kill the RVS before the game starts"-hate.

It works extremely well at getting reactions. From said reactions, we scum hunt.

1) There was no RVS going on. We were discussing strategies. It wasn't like votes were getting lobbied around with silly reasons. In fact, your post seems to have *started* another RVS.

2) All of the reactions seem to have been negative towards you. What have you gleaned from this?

[Cephrir]

Only 6 votes? Pah!

Vote: Mastin

It actually might be in the town's best interest to lynch him, lol. I know I for one will be a lot less likely to lurk if he's gone early DX

[Mastin]

1) There was no RVS going on. We were discussing strategies. It wasn't like votes were getting lobbied around with silly reasons. In fact, your post seems to have *started* another RVS.

The tactics were stalling. Nearing the end of fruitful talk.
I jumpstarted it.

2) All of the reactions seem to have been negative towards you. What have you gleaned from this?

That the scum are bandwagoning me. I'm already half-way to a lynch in less than 24 hours. No bandwagon builds that fast without scum support. Hence, we're going to be looking at those on the wagon.

Also, keep in mind I heard noise.
Nobody claimed a ward on me.
Meaning either I was stalked (doesn't clear me),
or I had an F. crafted of me. (DOES clear me.)

Making me 50% clear, semi-clear.
People bandwagoning ignore that fact, though.

[arelian]

Hearing noise doesn't really clear anyone. Scum can easily fake it. I think at this point claiming noise is only to help narrow down who to protect- it doesn't necessarily say a lot about their alignment. Especially when cultists can be targetted with stalk, and murderers can be targetted with stalk or craft fetish.

[sideney]

Hearing noise doesn't really clear anyone

. Scum can easily fake it. I think at this point claiming noise is only to help narrow down who to protect- it doesn't necessarily say a lot about their alignment. Especially when cultists can be targetted with stalk, and murderers can be targetted with stalk or craft fetish.

You got the point. It seems that almost everyone agree with noise claim.

I didn't hear noise.