Vengeful 5p - Open 158: Game over before 829

[Yosarian2]

I especaly want to get answers here about what he thinks before he goes away V/LA from the 2nd to the 8th and probably has to be replaced if he can't post. I mean, this is a vengeful game; the entire game it should be over before the 8th.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Vote Count #2

With

5

alive it takes

3

to lynch!

Semioldguy - (1)

Yosarian2

ekiM - (1)

semioldguy

Not voting:

Far_Cry, ekiM, Hoopla

[/area]

[semioldguy]

Anyway, do you actually think that Hoopla is likely scum for supporting that?

I think it increases the likeliness.

Also, you've been voting ekiM since that point, but haven't actaully been attacking him, or asking him questions, or commenting on his other posts, or anything. What do you think about his play in general so far?

Most recently asking questions without adding much else and information instead of analysis.

I especaly want to get answers here about what he thinks before he goes away V/LA from the 2nd to the 8th and probably has to be replaced if he can't post. I mean, this is a vengeful game; the entire game it should be over before the 8th.

I see no reason why there should be a rush to end the game and see it as to the advantage of town if it isn't rushed. What advantage do you see in ending the day and/or game more quickly?

[Hoopla]

Plus, I already thought semioldguy's origional attack on you didn't make sense.

Hoopla isn't the one I am attacking for it, as Hoopla wasn't the one to suggest it in the first place, merely went along with it which earned the FoS rather than the vote. I've caught scum that way previously. What doesn't make sense about it? Voting is a power the town has to both use and analyze, and in majority. An attempt to take away that power by using other less accountable voting systems is a suspicious thing to suggest.

Yes, but even in normal games you wouldn't put a player at L-1 without excellent reason. Allowing an equally liberal voting system for this game is stupid, when scum have incentive to hammer. You don't need votes to talk.

[Yosarian2]

I especaly want to get answers here about what he thinks before he goes away V/LA from the 2nd to the 8th and probably has to be replaced if he can't post. I mean, this is a vengeful game; the entire game it should be over before the 8th.

I see no reason why there should be a rush to end the game and see it as to the advantage of town if it isn't rushed. What advantage do you see in ending the day and/or game more quickly?

(shrug) What's the advantage in dragging it out forever?

People try to delibratly extend days to get infromation, but I don't really think that helps; it just slows down the game, leads to more lurkers, more pointless circular debate, and makes it harder to find scum more often then not.

There's no reason for a vengeful game to be long. Especally since everyone (both town and scum) have strong reasons to vote and play agressivly.

[Hoopla]

There is a balance that can be acheived when it comes to day length and information. A longer day is always better

if

players have the time, motivation and ability to analyse it all. Most don't though - so you need a balance before noise becomes a hiding place for scum.

I don't think you can know enough in 4 or 5 pages to call the game though.


But, I'm with Yos. Lets speed this up. This thread needs more Far_Cry - stop hiding away behind your scum mistake and do something.

[Far_Cry]

Onto a proper post now I've got that unvote out of the way. Yos, those are some pretty wishy-washy assertions. I don't necessarily interpret Far_Cry's play as town behaviour. Reading through some of his other game posts, it seems he is no stranger to playing the newb card, whether intentionally or not.

@ Far_Cry: Instead of talking about your mistakes, do you know who the mafia are? Where do your current suspicions lie?

I agree in part wat Yosarian said. I find semioldguy suspicious. However, I don't know who his partner might be. I'm not entirely believing its ekim. I'll need more information.

[Hoopla]

I agree in part wat Yosarian said.

I find semioldguy suspicious.

However, I don't know who his partner might be. I'm not entirely believing its ekim. I'll need more information.

Why? And what are you agreeing with?

[Yosarian2]

Onto a proper post now I've got that unvote out of the way. Yos, those are some pretty wishy-washy assertions. I don't necessarily interpret Far_Cry's play as town behaviour. Reading through some of his other game posts, it seems he is no stranger to playing the newb card, whether intentionally or not.

@ Far_Cry: Instead of talking about your mistakes, do you know who the mafia are? Where do your current suspicions lie?

I agree in part wat Yosarian said. I find semioldguy suspicious. However, I don't know who his partner might be. I'm not entirely believing its ekim. I'll need more information.

Glad to see you start scumhunting, farcry; we really need everyone to start talking about who they thin.

Could you explain why you think semioldguy is suspicious? Do you think ekim is acting in a town way?

[Yosarian2]

We also need to hear more from ekiM. He's basically lurking right now, and I really have no idea who he finds suspicious at the moment.

[Far_Cry]

Onto a proper post now I've got that unvote out of the way. Yos, those are some pretty wishy-washy assertions. I don't necessarily interpret Far_Cry's play as town behaviour. Reading through some of his other game posts, it seems he is no stranger to playing the newb card, whether intentionally or not.

@ Far_Cry: Instead of talking about your mistakes, do you know who the mafia are? Where do your current suspicions lie?

I agree in part wat Yosarian said. I find semioldguy suspicious. However, I don't know who his partner might be. I'm not entirely believing its ekim. I'll need more information.

Glad to see you start scumhunting, farcry; we really need everyone to start talking about who they thin.

Could you explain why you think semioldguy is suspicious? Do you think ekim is acting in a town way?

My gut feeling just tells me that semi is suspicious. He's been acting, in a

strange

way.

And now I highly doubt both ekim and semi are mafia. However, I'm sort of bouncing back and forth between them.

[Far_Cry]

Ekim's play has definitely not been very much town. However, I don't have sufficient evidence to pursue him.

Again, semi and ekim are not a likely scum pair. So who else would u guys find suspicious?

[ekiM]

I've had a busy weekend so I haven't been on MS. Calling that lurking is reaching.

Eurf, I don't like SOG's V/LA. I guess it's not an alignment tell but it is awfully anti-town to be AWOL for a week right near the start of a game, especially a short one like this set-up. He's still harping on my suggestion to be cautious with our votes, which I don't really think was a big deal. He's not expressed suspicion of anyone else, either.

Far_Cry's lampshading of his error came off as pretty townish to me, but his efforts since then aren't very convincing. He's being fairly wishy washy and not giving much in the way of reasoning.

Hoopla and Yosarian both look pretty townish, but I'm a bit concerned that this is just because they're skilled at projecting that image. They're definitely taking the lead in trying to keep the game going, but directing the town is a good place for skilled town or skilled scum to be.

More later I hope.

[ekiM]

Happy Birthday, Hoopla!

[Hoopla]

I don't think semioldguy has been that suspicious - yeah there's theory disagreement, and a lack of scumhunting, but is he really that worthy of being the main suspect so far? I think he's either the goon being pushed, or a townie being pushed by scum.

Far_Cry has been quite impressionable, it almost seems as if he's trying hard to avoid ruffling feathers, particularly with the way he interacts with Yos. I don't think they'd both be obvious enough to be scum together. I can understand the innocence behind his 'scum slip' but I still don't know if it's enough solely to clear him.

Hey Far_Cry, if you don't think a semi/ekim pairing is likely, what do you think about me and Yos? You'd have to presume one of us to be scum from your perspective.

[semioldguy]

I like Hoopla's posting more recently. though as far as voting goes we are just going to have to disagree. If you don't vote for the person you find suspicious, then you let other players push you toward the players you find less suspicious. My suspicions on Hoopla have gone down slightly. I have liked his posting since and he appears more townish. Far_Cry doesn't look so good right now.

Concerning my V/LA, I intend to post when I can and try to keep up as often as possible. some days it just might not be feasible to come online. that being said, even those chastising me for my V/LA aren't being very active themselves despite being so concerned with activity levels.

[Yosarian2]

I've had a busy weekend so I haven't been on MS. Calling that lurking is reaching.

It's not just the weekend; it's the fact that you had yet to really express any suspicion on someone.

You still didnt, really, in this post. After reading your post, I guess you're suspicious of semi-old guy, but it wasn't clear, and your reason (he's suspicious because he's going V/LA?) dosn't make sense. And other then a very weak suspicion on him, you seemed really wishy washy on everyone else.

[ekiM]

When I said that his V/LA is not an alignment-tell that is, in fact, what I meant. I'm not really sure how you can misinterpret that. My problem with his play was that the only thing he'd been talking about was the voting suggestion, repeating himself without saying anything. I also said he'd not expressed any other suspicions; he's since called Hoopla town-looking (like everyone else has) and said the least experienced player doesn't look so good. Again, very easy to say.

Yosarian, do you know whom Hoopla suspects? I don't see where she's lain it out any more clearly than I have, yet you haven't questioned that. In fact, since she called you out for buddying and you denied it, you haven't addressed her at all. Why is that?

[ekiM]

I don't think semioldguy has been that suspicious - yeah there's theory disagreement, and a lack of scumhunting, but is he really that worthy of being the main suspect so far?

Whom do you suspect more?

[Hoopla]

I think either Yos or Far_cry is the godfather, and is where I'll probably vote.

[Yosarian2]

When I said that his V/LA is not an alignment-tell that is, in fact, what I meant.

You said

I guess it's not an alignment tell but it is awfully anti-town to be AWOL for a week right near the start of a game, especially a short one like this set-up.

Which sounds like you're trying to have it both ways.

Yosarian, do you know whom Hoopla suspects? I don't see where she's lain it out any more clearly than I have, yet you haven't questioned that.
In fact, since she called you out for buddying and you denied it, you haven't addressed her at all. Why is that?

Hoopla seems pretty obviously pro-town.

The way she unvoted semioldguy when I voted him, putting him at lynch -1 seemed pro-town to me; at the very least, I can't see her doing that as scum unless she's scum with semioldguy, and even then, that's not the vibe I'm getting.

Besies that, she's been very active, and her reasoning feels pro-town to me.

[Yosarian2]

I think either Yos or Far_cry is the godfather, and is where I'll probably vote.

Could you explain that, hoopla?

Why, exactally, do you suspect me here?

[Hoopla]

I think either Yos or Far_cry is the godfather, and is where I'll probably vote.

Could you explain that, hoopla?

Why, exactally, do you suspect me here?

The same reason you have found your suspects, mainly by process of elimination.

The alignment I'm most sure of, or rather, give better chances than random is semioldguy being the goon. I think it's less likely than random, ekiM is scum with semioldguy, which is why I'm currently discounting ekiM as godfather.

Far_Cry to me commits some scum tells, especially with the way he interacts with you - it seems like he is just following, afraid to commit to an unpopular position. This is also seen when he makes his 'scum slip' early, which wasn't really a scum slip. It just seems so obvious, which makes it look town, which is my main doubt. Although I have been burnt by that before.

As for you Yos, I think it would clever a position to take as godfather being the aggressor, as such, particularly in a meek, impressionable town. I see your play clearing town players early as a way to impose your opinions first, which seems a safe place for the godfather to be.

Although, the percentages between all these different scenarios are all so marginal, that it's hard to know how much better my opinions are than random chance.

[Yosarian2]

As for you Yos, I think it would clever a position to take as godfather being the aggressor, as such, particularly in a meek, impressionable town. I see your play clearing town players early as a way to impose your opinions first, which seems a safe place for the godfather to be.

Well...townhunting is one of the best ways to go in a vengeful game, in my experence; in a game so small, if you can figure out one person is town, it really improves your chances.

Plus, I understand how it might get you paranoid, but me being agressive here, in a town that was otherwise kind of stalled, is the best way for me to act as town.

Anyway, I'm incresingly confident Hoopla is town here; if she was scum, and I had just declared her town, I would expect her to use that to her advantage, to buddy up with me, and to use that to get a better endgame result.

I will say that if you're pretty sure that a certain person is the goon, lynching that person is a good play. Lynching the godfather on day 1 dosn't really happen all that often, and if you lynch a goon, it gives the town 2 more days to lynch the godfather.

[Far_Cry]

I don't think semioldguy has been that suspicious - yeah there's theory disagreement, and a lack of scumhunting, but is he really that worthy of being the main suspect so far? I think he's either the goon being pushed, or a townie being pushed by scum.

Far_Cry has been quite impressionable, it almost seems as if he's trying hard to avoid ruffling feathers, particularly with the way he interacts with Yos. I don't think they'd both be obvious enough to be scum together. I can understand the innocence behind his 'scum slip' but I still don't know if it's enough solely to clear him.

Hey Far_Cry, if you don't think a semi/ekim pairing is likely, what do you think about me and Yos? You'd have to presume one of us to be scum from your perspective.

Its hard to say which and if either 1 of u is scum. Both of u being scum is possibly but unlikely in my opinion.

Srry about my posts not having "meat." I will answer Hoopla's question better tomorrow, and will try to do a good analysis of this game so far tomorrow.