Vengeful 5p - Open 158: Game over before 829

[BridgesAndBaloons]

For your convenience, the opening post will have a list of the players in the game and the current deadlines. The rules are in the next post.

Read the rules.

Still Alive (3/5)

ekiM
Hoopla
Yosarian2

Not quite so alive (2/5)

semioldguy

, Mafia Goon

lynched day 1

far_Cry

, Vanilla Townie

lynched day 2

CURRENT DEADLINE:

NO CURRENT DEADLINE

[BridgesAndBaloons]

THE RULES:

General Stuff

• Follow the website rules (please
  read
  them)If you have any questions for me, you may pm or you may ask in thread. If you ask in the thread, please start it with "
  mod:
  " so that I am more likely to see it.
• I don't like lurkers. Please be ready to
  post at the very least once every 2 days. Treat this game like a commitment
  . I will prod anyone as soon as I become aware that they haven't posted for 3 days or more. If you are going to go away and not have access for more than 2 days, you must write so in this game thread. I will not check the V/LA section of this website.
• If a player ignores my prods, I may be forced to replace that player. If you think you can't keep up this commitment, please don't join this game. Nobody likes having to get a replacement.
• Green is my color
  , so don't use it!
• If someone violates any of these rules, I may modkill them, depending on the situation. In the event of the modkill, that person is turned into a neutrally-aligned survivor (thus instantly losing), and the game will switch to night.
• On yet another note, I may choose to include
  flavor
  with night kills and with lynches. None of my flavor will reveal anything about the game, and if you think the flavor hints at something, you're wrong.

Lynching:

• During the day, all players may cast one vote on any other player in the game. It takes a simple majority of votes to lynch a player. The vote must be bolded to count, and
  should
  be of the form
  vote: Player
  .
• You may also remove your vote from that person by simply putting
  unvote: Player
  in your post. Please unvote before switching your vote.
• As soon as the final vote is cast on a player, that player is lynched.
• If something is bolded and can be easily interpreted as a vote, I will interpret as a vote. This means that spelling mistakes and abbreviations
  will
  count as proper votes, as long as they are bolded.
• If, a townie is lynched during
  day 1 only
  , then they will have the opportunity to make a kill.
• After the player makes a vengeful kill or decides not too, the game will proceed to the next Day
• I will try to post a votecount at least once every page
• I will set
  deadlines if discussion lags
  . I have a pre-determined system of when to set a deadline based on activity and how long the day has lasted. I will mention the deadline at least a week ahead of time.
• For this game, because there must be a lynch, the player with the most votes at deadline will be lynched. If multiple players tie, the player who more recently was voted to that number will be lynched.
• You must put the word "dog" in your post before your vote counts. This is to make sure everyone reads the rules. This applies to replacements also.

Other things and clarifications

• This is a nightless game, and so player cannot vote to nolynch.
• Scum (and only scum) have the ability to Daytalk privately during the whole game
• If a townie is lynched Day 1, they get a Venge Kill.
• Town win either when the godfather is lynched or when both mafia are dead.
• Mafia win if they control half or more of the town. This situation will happen in of two scenarios: Since the vengekill and the lynch resolve at the same time, if a townie is lynched day 1, and that townie venge kills
  another
  townie, mafia win. The other scenario in which Mafia win is if the godfather is alive with one other townie.
• I will open the game when everyone has picked up their role pm .
• Once you are dead, you may not post. If you would like to be pmed when the game is over (although I hope you will follow along), then let me know via pm.

Open

This game is open, so that means I will reveal all of the roles in this game.

3 players get this role

Vengeful Townie

Dude, you totally just finished watching the Matrix! It was totally awesome! Man, remember that one scene where Tank got shot and then he got up and show Cypher: "Believe it or not, you piece of shit, you're still gonna burn!"
That was

so

awesome!
I mean, even though he died in between the first and second movie, it was still pretty awesome.

So, you've decided that you're going to be like Tank. If you are lynched day 1, at the last moment [during twilight], you have the opportunity to shoot someone [via pming me], and they will die. Of course,

you

will still die.

Oh that's going to be soooo awesome. Man, I really like The Matrix. Too bad the sequels are lame. Oh wait, I forgot to tell you about your win condition:

There's some mafia are bad people of some sort in your town. I don't really care. It just gives you an opportunity to be like Tank. You win if the godfather is lynched, or when both mafia are dead. You lose when mafia control 50% or more of the town. Vengeful kills occur the instant the townie dies.

Man, this is going to be awesome. "Believe it or not, you piece of shit, you're still gonna burn!"

Actually, it might not be so awesome. After you've seen some bloodshed, there's no way you'll be able to kill someone. So, after Day 1, you will no longer think killing someone is cool and you'll lose the ability to vengekill.

one player gets this role

You are the mafia goon

. Although, you really dislike that word.

Goon

. You're not goonish. You find yourself actually quite a sentimental person. AND you're not stupid. It's hard stuff being a goon. Your smarts will come in handy; you have to make sure, NAME, the mafia godfather, doesn't get in trouble. By "get in trouble," I mean killed. And by "have to make sure," I mean that you lose and surrender to the town if the godfather is lynched. Then, you'll be the at the town's mercy. Of course, that shouldn't be too bad, I mean, it's not like you killed them or anything.

Oh yeah, what I mean is you don't have a nightkill. Although, whenever you want, you get to talk do your mafia godfather

only

by using this thread.

You win when the mafia control half of the population during the day (vengeful kills resolve at the same time the lynch resolves).

I don't think you're goonish at all.

one player gets this role

Hey,

you're the mafia godfather.

The big bad evil mafia godfather.

Except, you're not quite big, bad,

or

evil. You've decided to hang out with your friend the mafia goon, NAME, in a small village. You didn't even bring your guns and less traditional weapons. The problem is these pesky villagers all seem to have recently seen the movie,

The Matrix

, and they're thrilled with the prospect of shooting someone as they die.

So you might die; the villagers want to kill you because you, because you . . . Why

do

they want to kill

you

? Who knows!? What's important is that you might die, and to add insult to injury, if you are lynched, you LOSE. If both you and your mafia goon friend are dead, you also lose.

On the flip side, you can win if members of the mafia constitute half of the players alive during the night or day (not twilight).

You know what, it's really not fair that townies can kill and you can't. Well you know what, LIFE ISN'T FAIR! Why don't you complain about life to your scumbuddy in this thread however, again because life isn't fair, that's the only place you can talk with your scumbuddy privately any time you want

[BridgesAndBaloons]

this post reserved for
1) Rule Clarifications
2) Special messages
3) List of vote counts in chronological order, by date.

[Yosarian2]

Weee. Game is open.

Ok, Godfather, it's time to bus your goon now. Do it fast before anyone suspects.

[Far_Cry]

Ok lets get this rolling.

Vote semioldguy

Your old or your not, right? Not in between?

[Far_Cry]

unvote

oops my mistake.

[semioldguy]

What was your mistake?

[Hoopla]

What was your mistake?

Obviously voting his Godfather.

Vote: semioldguy

[Hoopla]

dog

Vote: semioldguy

[ekiM]

Good morning. Seems like random voting with so few players could be quite risky. So how do we get this party started?

[Hoopla]

Good morning. Seems like random voting with so few players could be quite risky. So how do we get this party started?

Speed-lynching favours scum, especially in this set-up.

If all town players vow not to quick hammer, it guarentees a lengthier day, and would heavily incriminate anyone who wanted to hammer early. That should only be scum.

[ekiM]

That makes sense. If a townie gets hammered early then they should venge-kill their hammerer because they will certainly be scum. However I don't see how we find the second scum on Day 2 after that happens. So should we avoid putting anyone to L-1, too? Maybe we could use FoS instead or something.

[Hoopla]

I'd support a system of FoS's, I think that would work best.

One of the prime balancers of this game is the Godfather role, that enables a town win early. If we put multiple players at L-1 before we have sufficient information, scum could well jump on and hammer. So yes, no putting someone at L-1 too, I'd say.

Just another reminder; it is not in the town's interest to accept their lynch to acquire the vengeful kill. Here is a good recent example of it going wrong.

[Yosarian2]

Good morning. Seems like random voting with so few players could be quite risky. So how do we get this party started?

Speed-lynching favours scum, especially in this set-up.

If all town players vow not to quick hammer, it guarentees a lengthier day, and would heavily incriminate anyone who wanted to hammer early. That should only be scum.

Eh...quick hammering isn't really a huge risk in this setup, especally since if a townie gets quick hammered they get a venge kill.

Scum will sometimes quick hammer anyway, though, to eliminate the risk of the gf being lynched day 1.

Anyway, I don't really think we need an especally "lengthy day"; I tend to think vengeful games should move quite quickly. Just figure out the scum, nail em, bam.

[Hoopla]

Eh...quick hammering isn't really a huge risk in this setup, especally since if a townie gets quick hammered they get a venge kill.

Scum will sometimes quick hammer anyway, though, to eliminate the risk of the gf being lynched day 1.

Anyway, I don't really think we need an especally "lengthy day"; I tend to think vengeful games should move quite quickly. Just figure out the scum, nail em, bam.

We don't want to rely on the venge-kill though. If you offered scum a page 3, 3 player alive scenario with one of them alive, they'd be crazy to not take it. The best chance the town has of winning this set-up is by lynching scum D1.

[Yosarian2]

Obviously lynching a scum is significantly better then venge-killing one, yes.

I'm not sure about a strict "no-voting" rule like you're trying to set up. Obv we have to be careful about putting people at lynch -1, and shouldn't without a good reason; but votes are also where you get most of your information. Also, if town people aren't willing to vote agressivly, we probably won't lynch scum today; town people need to be the ones starting bandwagons and such if we're going to be sucessfull.

[semioldguy]

Voting is the best way to account for your suspicions. I don't like when people suggest alternatives to voting without being under special circumstances such as lylo. I don't consider this setup to be lylo on day one as there is the vengeance kill to negate the threat of that.

Vote: ekiM

FoS: Hoopla

[Far_Cry]

What was your mistake?

I forgot that this was Vengeful game, and random voted as I normal do. My normal strategy in Vengefuls is to not vote for reason.

God I just made a simple scum mistake.

[Yosarian2]

Voting is the best way to account for your suspicions. I don't like when people suggest alternatives to voting without being under special circumstances such as lylo. I don't consider this setup to be lylo on day one as there is the vengeance kill to negate the threat of that.

Vote: ekiM

FoS: Hoopla

Eh? Why, just because of their theory discussion? I thought Hoopla actually sounded rather town-ish from that, even though I didn't entierly agree with her.

[ekiM]

Voting is the best way to account for your suspicions. I don't like when people suggest alternatives to voting without being under special circumstances such as lylo. I don't consider this setup to be lylo on day one as there is the vengeance kill to negate the threat of that.

Vote: ekiM

FoS: Hoopla

You're reaching here. What is scummy about considering whether voting normally is safe or not?

We're not in LYLO, but a very premature lynch would screw us over. I can express my suspicions adequately without allowing scum to quickhammer by voting too freely.

What was your mistake?

I forgot that this was Vengeful game, and random voted as I normal do. My normal strategy in Vengefuls is to not vote for reason.

God I just made a simple scum mistake.

"Scum mistake". . . ?

[Hoopla]

Obviously lynching a scum is significantly better then venge-killing one, yes.

I'm not sure about a strict "no-voting" rule like you're trying to set up. Obv we have to be careful about putting people at lynch -1, and shouldn't without a good reason; but votes are also where you get most of your information. Also, if town people aren't willing to vote agressivly, we probably won't lynch scum today; town people need to be the ones starting bandwagons and such if we're going to be sucessfull.

That's fine, I can settle with careful voting - but if there wasn't some theory discussion or talk of precautions early, there would be more room for excuses by scum to put a player at L-1. Having some semblance of town-understanding is a good thing. When the town attempts to define pro-town motives, it forces scum to heed them, or at least compromise. I doubt anyone will quickly hammer now, or sacrifice themself to gain a venge-kill.

[semioldguy]

That's fine, I can settle with careful voting - but if there wasn't some theory discussion or talk of precautions early, there would be more room for excuses by scum to put a player at L-1. Having some semblance of town-understanding is a good thing. When the town attempts to define pro-town motives, it forces scum to heed them, or at least compromise. I doubt anyone will quickly hammer now, or sacrifice themself to gain a venge-kill.

Scum putting a player at L-1 isn't really as big of an issue, because a town player is not likely to hammer this early knowing they would be the venge-kill and additionally that scum couldn't hammer because his vote is already on the L-1 player.

[Hoopla]

Scum putting a player at L-1 isn't really as big of an issue, because a town player is not likely to hammer this early knowing they would be the venge-kill and additionally that scum couldn't hammer because his vote is already on the L-1 player.

If the first vote is a townie voting a townie, there is another available scum to hammer. Really though, the town should know not to put a player at L-1 without intention to lynch, or a good reason otherwise.

[ekiM]

That's fine, I can settle with careful voting - but if there wasn't some theory discussion or talk of precautions early, there would be more room for excuses by scum to put a player at L-1. Having some semblance of town-understanding is a good thing. When the town attempts to define pro-town motives, it forces scum to heed them, or at least compromise. I doubt anyone will quickly hammer now, or sacrifice themself to gain a venge-kill.

Scum putting a player at L-1 isn't really as big of an issue, because a town player is not likely to hammer this early knowing they would be the venge-kill and additionally that scum couldn't hammer because his vote is already on the L-1 player.

But if a townie puts another townie to L-1 scum can hammer. If they do this early enough then the hammerer gets shot and there isn't enough information to find their partner on D2.

You're being quite blasé about this. This set-up already favors scum I believe, and it'll be worse if they're allowed a quicklynch.

[Yosarian2]

You're being quite blasé about this. This set-up already favors scum I believe, and it'll be worse if they're allowed a quicklynch.

Eh, this setup is almost perfectly balanced, in my opinion, and I've played a LOT of vengeful games (although not on the forum).

Scum quick hammers and then gets venge killed isn't a great outcome, but it's not the worst of all possible outcomes either.

Also...let's not get too deeply into the mindset that a hammer must ALWAYS come from scum. Often when I see a town lose one of these games, it happens when a townie gets lynched and then reflexivly OMGUS kills the guy who lynched him, rather then killing the person who he thinks looks scummiest. Illogical Quickhammers are likely to be scum, of course, but town do lynch people too sometimes.

And they should, too; remember, the only way for a Godfather to ever be lynched day 1 is for all 3 townies to be on the wagon.