Newbie 838 (Game Over!)

[My Milked Eek]

I understand. What is your opinion on the RVS? I see you've finished one game and I doubt all the ongoings (don't talk too much about it or go into more detail than this) are in the RVS right now, so, any opinion on the RVS?

Also, is that a wig the bird in your avatar is wearing?

[RayFrost]

As I said, this is the ONLY game I've not replaced into. All the other games are ones I HAVE replaced into... including my finished game.

My opinion on the RVS (as uneducated as it is) is that it can be helpful as a source of getting conversation going, but it can be detrimental as a source of no information and halting discussion. In essence, the RVS, like any other method, is not guaranteed to work.

and the big is wearing a wig ether edited the original avatar to have the wig.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: big should be bird >.>

[Crunchi]

Can I just ask everybody, what sort of expeience you have at playing Mafia?

First game.

Vote: purple princess

because I don't like peach >:

[bigmc109]

As far as Mafia experience goes, I'm currently in two games (this and Mini 842), and I was killed Night 1 in Newbie 826 (which is ongoing).

[rustyshark]

Regarding the rvs. If you're not asking for the votes to be truly random, then asking for "randomness" can actually mean asking for

non-randomness

, or else it means asking for people to not know what is/isn't random or to act independantly of such knowledge. For example, someone voting in a way that's actually

not

random (whether or not they thought it was), or by someone assuming that someone else's vote was nonrandom (whether that vote was random or not).

This means there are specific ways the RVS can end (and thus just saying "don't make it too long or too short" is generally useless). Someone could end it accidentally (by presenting nonrandom information), or someone could assume it is already over (because they think someone else's post contains nonrandom information) and act accordingly (present actual nonrandom information, thus ending it for real). The only way to intentionally end the rvs is if someone has information that makes the entire thing unnecessary (from before the beginning of the thread, which presumably none of us have).

So if you have made the same assumptions as me, it means that:
1. It is impossible for a townie to intentionally end the rvs. Ending the rvs requires information that presumably no townie has, unless/until a mafia slips up.
2. The RVS is not guaranteed to produce any useful information. Because the rvs only ends when useful information is known, this means the rvs might never end. Someone else once joked (which I take somewhat more seriously) about how the rvs usually ends in lylo.
3. I've seen people in other games advocate a no lynch to give the power roles time to do something. But if there AREN'T any power roles (which is possible in the current setup), then a no-lynch is just a disaster that accomplishes nothing. Which basically means that there's no choice. Either sit here and do nothing and getting picked off one by one, or continuing and hoping the scum make a mistake.

So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

Vote: Carrick16

for trying to make it look like you're

not

trying too hard.

[hohum]

Official Vote Count

Echo(2): bigmc109, Hulk

RayFrost(2): Carrick16, My Milked Eek
Hulk(2): purple princess, Echo
purple princess(1): RayFrost, Crunchi
Carrick16(1): rustyshark

Not Voting(0):

[Crunchi]

<b>@mod: I voted :O</b>
Up there.
For purple princess.

[RayFrost]

<> is replaced by [] here =/

Other than that...

unvote, vote: rustyshark

for no avatar and typing something in a way that is much longer and could easily be summarized =/

[Crunchi]

Eh, my bad.

@mod: already voted, for purple princess, up there.

Fixed. Sorry for over-looking your vote.

[Echo]

So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

To me, this line is so wifomy I would never say something like this.

@rayfrost: Are you excited about this game?

As for Mafia experience: one completed game and one ongoing game here, and a few games on other forums.

[RayFrost]

I'm excited about every game as it is a chance to get new experience, make new friends, etc. In fact, this is totally the perfect networking opportunity!

I am excited, but, eh =/ no real reason for why. Why do you ask? Also, how is that line in any way WIFOM?

[My Milked Eek]

So if you have made the same assumptions as me, it means that:
1. It is impossible for a townie to intentionally end the rvs. Ending the rvs requires information that presumably no townie has, unless/until a mafia slips up.

Have to disagree with you there. Townies can unintentionally end the RVS, sure. But they can just as well end the RVS, there are some ways to do that. This leads me to the last line of the quoted selection: not every slip up is from a mafia.

2. The RVS is not guaranteed to produce any useful information. Because the rvs only ends when useful information is known, this means the rvs might never end. Someone else once joked (which I take somewhat more seriously) about how the rvs usually ends in lylo.

There is more information to be gained from the RVS than one would assume from a quick readthrough. Let me see if I can dig an example out of my finished games.

3. I've seen people in other games advocate a no lynch to give the power roles time to do something. But if there AREN'T any power roles (which is possible in the current setup), then a no-lynch is just a disaster that accomplishes nothing. Which basically means that there's no choice. Either sit here and do nothing and getting picked off one by one, or continuing and hoping the scum make a mistake.

First off, I know you're not doing it and I'm just saying as a general advice to everyone, do not speculate about power roles (or the setup for that matter) on D1 or D2 until more is known about the setup.

So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

Not liking this.

To me, this line is so wifomy I would never say something like this.

Yes, tell us why that line is wifom.


Also a mini-v/la announcement. Going camping tonight in the woods. Obviously no Internet connection. Expect me back on Monday. Tuesday the latest.

[Echo]

It's just one of those "oh, scum would never say this sort of thing" lines, and honestly it confuses the heck out of me :/

@rayfrost: Just wondering why you're our most active poster ;P

[RayFrost]

Well, I'm probably the most active poster for the following reasons:

I go to school online.

I usually have ~4-10 hours a day to do whatever.

I'm in quite a few games here on MS, so I need to keep active.

[purple princess]

So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

I have to agree with Echo and My Milked Eek, it does seem a little odd to be saying this, but in Echo's next post he kind of does the same thing.

To me, this line is so wifomy I would never say something like this.

[rustyshark]

*note to self: don't make sarcastic jokes involving death during a game of mafia.*

Anyway that line was meant as a direct continuation of the previous part of my post - I had just got done trying to say that the only way out of RVS is for scum to make a mistake, so then I tell the scum to make a mistake. Maybe it was a silly thing to say but ehh, I don't see it as being any

less

silly for a scum to try to say it.

And my whole argument was in response to My Milked Eek's question on what people thought about the "random voting stage". So does anyone

else

have an opinion on the RVS? It would help to get as much knowledge and experience on the subject as possible, while we're still in that area of the game.

Let me see if I can dig an example out of my finished games.

yes please do; experience from previous games is always a good thing.

I'll hold off on responding to the rest of your RVS argument till then, since getting an actual example of a town ending the RVS would be way more clear than trying to argue about whether it's possible or how it could be done.

[bigmc109]

Sorry I haven't posted. I'm going to do a reread of the topic and post my thoughts in a few hours.

[RayFrost]

Reasons for not posting:

no idea where to go from here

waiting on the MME/shark debate

I've got nothing to add ._."

[Echo]

bigmc: why do you need a few hours to read 2 pages of posts? Surely even a careful read would only take 15 minutes tops.

[bigmc109]

@ Echo: My other game had about 50 new posts and I did other things before reading (including a few responses to those 50 posts).

Rusty, MME, and RF are the most visible posters. Rusty's RVS post reminds me so much of my first game that I want to puke. There's no need to discuss how the RVS works, just let it happen. MME seems like a helpful IC, and RF an overeager newbie. I don't find either one suspicious.

The only thing that really sticks out to me as suspicious is rusty's line about scum making mistakes. I think Echo put it best when he said that's one of those lines that scum would say to make themselves seem increidbly pro-town. But it's also such a small thing that if rusty doesn't give us more scumtells, he won't even be a suspect.

[RayFrost]

bwahahahahaaaa I am an overeager newbie >.> that's why I'm in about... 6 games right now and the most active poster in most of them.

Also, seeing echo's comment that way, it would be a WIFOM argument by echo, which is pointless. Also, the comment itself would not be WIFOM. It

would

be suspicious, though.

Although talking game theory is not necessarily useful for scum hunting directly, I think it can be of use in understanding the logic of other players (which allows viewing of contradictions in the future or understanding of how the person reached a conclusion).

MME: are you happy that the RVS seems to have finished so quickly, and that people are posting?

unvote

not rvs anymore, so yeah.

[Carrick16]

Hey Guys,

Can I just ask everybody, what sort of expeience you have at playing Mafia?

VOTE HULK

for not having an avatar

Ive played a few times on another forum.

[hohum]

startransmission replaces Hulk.

[RayFrost]

Hello startransmission and welcome to the game!

We have an assortment of snacks including but not limited to:

"we are no longer in RVS" pie

"please be an active poster" salad

and, my personal favorite,

"feel free to post something that would promote town discussion" flavored ice cream.