Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

[Dondero]

Wow, this game moves fast! I went to bed last night thinking that the pace had slowed down a bit yesterday, and log back on today with almost 50 posts to trawl through! This thread has almost doubled overnight! Please note - I’ve got a similar issue to fhqw in that I’m GMT+1 so unfortunately I miss most of the action!

Where to start….. with Pyro of course! This game is fast becoming a one-man event. Almost all of the posts seem to be yours or about you. I appreciate that you’re on here quite a lot and seem to be an enthusiastic newbie, and I’m not criticising you for that or trying to discourage you – please don’t think I am, you’ve generated lots of useful information. However I’m finding it very distracting to formulate an opinion on anybody else.

For me, there are four points of controversy surrounding you:
1) The initial vote no lynch
2) Your 5 point scum-tell
3) Your self-vote
4) Your references to a non-existent bandwagon

I’d initially raised some queries on the first point, which you’ve since addressed. Regarding your 5 point system, I originally misinterpreted this and thought it was merely your own method of rating – ie an alternative to FoS, HoS, etc. Like everybody else I seem to be confused about this, so I need to digest and process yours and others posts subsequent to this.

Next. Is self-voting even allowed? It feels like I’m watching someone in the middle of a melt-down. I’m not at all comfortable with this. I think somebody else mentioned that this seems very anti-town.

Finally,

Well, what do you think of the bandwagon on me Annachie?

Oh, puh-leaze! Enough of playing the deluded victim already! You’ve got no votes on you!

Do I think you’re town or scum? I haven’t got the time to analyse all of your posts or responses, but I’m torn between disbelief that scum would be so brazen versus “the lady doth protest too much” Your posts seem to veer from rational and articulate to retaliatory and almost argumentative at times.

Unvote

FoS: Pyro

God only knows what he’ll make of that. Prepare for World War III boys!

Now, in other news….

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much.

Finally, it’d be good to hear more from the IC and SE’s I think, although I’m not particularly high on the post count myself either.

just me 1 Annachie
DarthRandal1138
Dondero
Annachie
xvart
Pyrogen
hitogoroshi 1 ,
startransmission
fhqwhgads 1 startransmission

No Lynch


Not Voting

hitogoroshi
fhqwhgads
xvart
Pyrogen
just me
DarthRandal1138
Dondero

[Pyrogen]

Of course there is no bandwagon...

I started that to make people talk. And I in particular wanted to hear Annachie talk.

[Annachie]

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much.

Hmm. now that's some wird argueing. My original vote on Just Me and suspicion of you go back to Just Me's first two posts. To me the way his first vote went just strenghtened my opinion. SOmething I explained in my vote post.


I think you should go back and look at my first 4 posts.
#1: Saying Hi. First player post in thread too
#2: Response to StartTransmission random vote
#3: Comment on lynching, explained further in a subsequent post
#4: Questions for Just Me

I like your little Laurel and Hardy bit, and your twisted logic. Both of which could be scumtells of their own.

[just me]

so, pyrogen, you lie to get some ideas? I'd prefer a more truthful player, erm playing

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, that's true. One meta-strategy is "Lynch All Liars" (wiki it) and while I don't follow that extreme, people who lie to save face (Oh no, I didn't REALLY over-react, I was just testing you!) get lynched quickly and rightly. Scum could just do that strategy against any accusation if town didn't lynch for it.

[Pyrogen]

so, pyrogen, you lie to get some ideas? I'd prefer a more truthful player, erm playing

A: When have I lied?

Vote: No lynch

until more discussion occurs on the first day and/or someone reprimands me for being suspicious.

I would vote randomly, but that just seems unfair.

Like I said, I wanted more discussion, and I knew it would lead to suspicion.

B: Who said I lied? I am a very argumentative person.

Not even Hitogoroshi said that very strong word(lie) in his last posts (though he did imply it).

C: Instead of bringing this up just when you are accused, why not answer your accusation like most people have to theirs? Easy enough to do.

/FOS Just Me

[just me]

Of course there is no bandwagon...

I started that to make people talk. And I in particular wanted to hear Annachie talk.

there

[Pyrogen]

How is that a lie? There was a bandwagon on me when I started my defense.

[startransmission]

This has been a hellish week, and I'm falling behind in all my games. I apologize, and I'll be in full from shortly. I'm caught up on reading (I know I know, active lurking) but haven't had the time to focus in on responding. That's soon to change, and again, I apologize.

[xvart]

Pyrogen - if you are not, in fact, mafia, you need to get it under control because you are sucking attention away from actual scum hunting. I think the problem is your action that everyone is calling you out on appear one way to most of us, then you describe it after the fact as planning ahead (and it feels contradictory in same sense), which might be possible but you might just be having a difficult time explaining that; or, you are just trying to save face and protect yourself.

I suggest clearing that up quickly and effectively and then also turn the finger back on those who are keeping these discussions alive and kicking (other than yourself). If you are protown, then it seems that scum might be trying to add fuel to the fire or are trying to get you to appear more scummy; so with that said, and to generate some more discussion, which of those that keep hammering on you do you feel might be the mafia, and why? (and yes, I know you have done this to a small degree, but not enough for me to start looking elsewhere).

That's why I'm voting Anna, and why I will

FOS JustMe

for not mentioning the no-lynch discussion in his first two votes (perhaps waiting to see if other town will go for no-lynch) and then nominating me as supicious for the no-lynch only after everyone vehemetly opposed it.

Are you suggesting that Anna bandwagoned the conversation about the no lynch after seeing how the rest of the town fell? I can see this, and will keep this in consideration.

The point is, and someone already said it, you may not be scum, but you certainly are not protown in my eyes at the moment. You are either scum or you are town with antitown behavior; neither of which I can stand for.

Vote: Pyrogen

I have a feeling that my first reaction was correct; but I will remove my vote from you again if you can point me in better direction.

On another note, does anyone else find Dondero's response here a little odd, or perhaps too defensive. Although humorous, I just feel a little unsettled by this post:

Now, in other news….

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much.

xvart.

[xvart]

This has been a hellish week, and I'm falling behind in all my games. I apologize, and I'll be in full from shortly. I'm caught up on reading (I know I know, active lurking) but haven't had the time to focus in on responding. That's soon to change, and again, I apologize.

Looking forward to hearing from you. I am especially curious why you dodged my first question to you in my first post:

Hello everyone. Let's get hunting! Startrasmission - is that Tim Allen or Joel Osteen in your avatar?

xvart.

Just kidding, of course.

xvart.

[just me]

first you say there was no banwagon, then of course there was one?
hmm, i'm starting to regret my unvote

[fhqwhgads]

I don't support a Pyro wagon. In fact, his high profile makes him a very easy target for scum. It's my opinion that at least one of the scum have voted or FoS'ed him recently.

In fact, probably more likely they FoS'ed to try to start a bandwagon without actually voting.

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!

This is WIFOM and I don't like it one bit. Like I said, Pyro is an easy target due to his high profile in this game. Also, scum could probably avoid being on the same bandwagon too soon for obvious reasons.

Pyrogen - if you are not, in fact, mafia, you need to get it under control because you are sucking attention away from actual scum hunting.

This.

Vote: Pyrogen

Wait... what? You tell him to calm down because he's distracting from scumhunting, even giving him excuses for that and then voting him in the next paragraph?

Vote: Dondero

Your WIFOM filled defense of something I didn't even think was such a big accusation makes me uncomfortable.

[Annachie]

Since my theory is that both of them are scum.

unvote Just Me
vote Dondero

[xvart]

Wait... what? You tell him to calm down because he's distracting from scumhunting, even giving him excuses for that and then voting him in the next paragraph?

Because he is either A.) mafia; or B.) anti-town; and like I said, both of which I won't stand for. You'll notice that I clearly stated that I would remove the vote once he was able to overcome this, as I do not necessarily think he is mafia, but he is behaving in a way that if kept around could become increasingly detrimental to the town.

Essentially, what I said was:
Pyro - this is my problem with you.
This is why I perceive it as a problem.
A few reasons how I think this might (possibly) be an error.
This is why it is problematic for the town.
This is what I will do if you don't clear this up (vote).
And this is what I will do once those problems are cleared (unvote).

fhqwhgads - I thought what I said was pretty clear earlier, so I ask you: are you intentionally twisting my words and quoting out of context?

xvart.

[fhqwhgads]

A few reasons how I think this might (possibly) be an error.

This is called coaching. How can he possibly now give a wrong answer?

[Pyrogen]

first you say there was no banwagon, then of course there was one?
hmm, i'm starting to regret my unvote

Yes. There was a bandwagon. No. There was not a bandwagon. The quotes you refer to refer to different points in "time". Bandwagon comes, Bandwagon goes. Such is life. Your argument is like saying that the two statements "George Bush is president" and "Barack Obama is president", refering to two different points in time, must be contradictory?

Pyrogen - if you are not, in fact, mafia, you need to get it under control because you are sucking attention away from actual scum hunting. I think the problem is your action that everyone is calling you out on appear one way to most of us, then you describe it after the fact as planning ahead (and it feels contradictory in same sense), which might be possible but you might just be having a difficult time explaining that; or, you are just trying to save face and protect yourself.

Arg, I only said the no-lynch thing was planned ahead, and that not really. I don't see how people keep saying I'm trying to trap them.

I suggest clearing that up quickly and effectively and then also turn the finger back on those who are keeping these discussions alive and kicking (other than yourself). If you are protown, then it seems that scum might be trying to add fuel to the fire or are trying to get you to appear more scummy; so with that said, and to generate some more discussion, which of those that keep hammering on you do you feel might be the mafia, and why? (and yes, I know you have done this to a small degree, but not enough for me to start looking elsewhere).

I don't know. Most people seem town enough.

That's why I'm voting Anna, and why I will

FOS JustMe

for not mentioning the no-lynch discussion in his first two votes (perhaps waiting to see if other town will go for no-lynch) and then nominating me as supicious for the no-lynch only after everyone vehemetly opposed it.

Are you suggesting that Anna bandwagoned the conversation about the no lynch after seeing how the rest of the town fell? I can see this, and will keep this in consideration.

This was way back, on page 2 (I think). Anna now seems less scummy to me, since (s)he has posted more. Still here posts seem small and devoid of information, so I find that suspicious.

[Pyrogen]

Do I think you’re town or scum? I haven’t got the time to analyse all of your posts or responses, but I’m torn between disbelief that scum would be so brazen versus “the lady doth protest too much” Your posts seem to veer from rational and articulate to retaliatory and almost argumentative at times.

I'll address this issue. I read posts that accuse me very carefully (moreso than others), and I find hints of scum more often then not in those posts for some reason. If the post seems scummy to me, twisting my words for example, I'll probably overreact, though it maybe the author simply misunderstood me or I misunderstood the author.

Also I have a bit of a temper, and I'm not used to being accused so much. I suppose playing more mafia will give me more poise in the future. I didn't find anything particularly scummy in your post, for example, so I haven't replied until now.

[Annachie]

Wow, only 3 posts in the last 24 hours. Pyro, I think you must have stunned us lol

[starkmoon]

just me
DarthRandal1138
Dondero 2 fhqwhgads, Annachie
Annachie
xvart
Pyrogen xvart
hitogoroshi
startransmission
fhqwhgads 1 startransmission

No Lynch


Not Voting

hitogoroshi
Pyrogen
just me
DarthRandal1138
Dondero

[DarthRandal1138]

I don't see how people keep saying I'm trying to trap them.

So I set a little conversation trap, if you will(...)

Moving on, in the interest of avoiding tunneling on Pyro, I'm going to put together a post with my thoughts on everyone else in the game. Back soon.

[hitogoroshi]

I aware I'm going back in time a bit, but bear with me, I only just formed a coherent opinion on this.

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much.

Hmm. now that's some wird argueing. My original vote on Just Me and suspicion of you go back to Just Me's first two posts. To me the way his first vote went just strenghtened my opinion. SOmething I explained in my vote post.


I think you should go back and look at my first 4 posts.
#1: Saying Hi. First player post in thread too
#2: Response to StartTransmission random vote
#3: Comment on lynching, explained further in a subsequent post
#4: Questions for Just Me

I like your little Laurel and Hardy bit, and your twisted logic. Both of which could be scumtells of their own.

How the hell is the "Laurel and Hardy" bit possibly a scumtell? And how is this -

Since my theory is that both of them are scum.

unvote Just Me
vote Dondero

Justified in any way? It's five pages in. Are you really thinking you've found a scumpair? You said your 'main suspicions' were laid out in post five, the relevant part re:Dondero being

To me it sounds like you're one of the scum and that you knew that the replacement was going to be the other.
Then you voted for the fist person that Dondero (The eventual replacement) pointed a finger at while appearing to be random about it. Trying too hard to appear random in my opinion.

Vote just me

Is that seriously - SERROUSLY - why you're voting Dondero? Because Justme voted someone that Dondero was skeptical about, ergo, they are both scum? Please tell me there's some other part to this whole mess I'm missing.

[DarthRandal1138]

Annachie

Decent posting frequency, but a lot of his posts are lacking in content.

DarthRandal1138

Obvtown. This is a man we can trust.

Dondero

Would like to see more posting. I know he replaced in, but only a day after the rest of us started.
Also not a big fan of this:

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!

This is a little too "aw, shucks" for my taste. "Yep, I could be mafia alright, but if I were, I'd be really bad at it, yup."

Pretty high on my scumdar right now, but I'll hold off throwing a third vote on him until after he posts some more.

fhqwhgads

While he hasn't posted much yet, his posts are chock-full of content.
Solid townie read.

hitogoroshi

Of his 6 posts, only half contain any content, but he did get to the party two days late.
No real read yet; would like to see more posting.

just me

Fairly frequent poster, but not much real content.
No real read right now, but:

also, we should be aware for any major twisting, I think there has been one instance of this but can't be bothered checking right now(…)

Please, bother…

Pyrogen

Ah, Pyro…

At this point, I'm leaning more over-enthusiastic newbtown than scum, but IGMEOY.

Neither the no-lynch thing nor your self-voting shenanigans seem to have endeared you to the rest of the posters, so, please, if your town, chill out a bit. Trying to provoke reactions is a good thing, but when the reactions all involve the rest of us questioning your motives, not so good.

Unless, of course, you're scum, in which case please keep digging.

startransmission

Hasn't said much, but has promised content soon. Very soon, I hope.

xvart

Fairly solid town read.
Not sure what to make of the accusations of coaching from fhqwhgads, particularly as he is my other reasonably firm townie.

In summation:

FOS: Dondero

IGMEOY: Pyrogen

post moar, plz: hitogoroshi, startransmission

[DarthRandal1138]

How the hell is the "Laurel and Hardy" bit possibly a scumtell?

You really don't see it as very WIFOM-y? "I couldn't possibly be scum, because if I was, I'd be pretty inept, wouldn't I?"

[hitogoroshi]

No, because the entire bit he's referring to isn't a scumtell! Donderro is saying "You're referring to me FOSing but not voting pyro, and justme voting pyro. That's not any sort of scumtell, thus, we'd have to be a pretty inept scumpair to do that!" The crucial difference is that the initial thing that's being 'attacked' actually has no bearing on alignment. Unless you think the random vote WAS actually a calculated response to Don's FOS, in which case, uh, what? that doesn't make sense.