Ok. I'd like to apologize first of all for acting so quickly yesterday. I now realize that the better course of action would have been to lynch SP and then based on that, decide whether or not to lynch Gayle. Now I feel as if we wasted a lynch, and I'm partly to blame. However, I was not expecting Gayle to self hammer, and I had warned against anyone hammering yet. That being said, I would still like that post from HP. He has had the extra time provided by the Night, so there is no excuse.
As far as SP is concerned, here's my take on it. It would be complete idiocy to make such a claim that early on in the game as scum. On the same token, it would but just as stupid to make the claim as cop, especially since we just found out that he was lying if he was either scum or cop. So either he just doesn't care about the game and is screwing us over to give the scum an easy win, or he's being overly scummy on purpose to make us think he's not scum... basically WIFOM.
In any case, I am inclined to go along with the Lynch All Liars idea. However keep in mind that if we don't catch scum today, it's LyLo tomorrow.
Before we start throwing votes around (since it's 3 to lynch now) we should hear from some of the less active players.
SirPent wrote:You are contradicting your statement number 1, the correct option is lynching of IKD,
SirPent wrote:I had just made that based on your overall quick vote yesterday. I think our scum lies within the lurkers. Cough Tracker Cough.....
unvote vote tracker
So as soon as I question your vote, you change your mind? Also, please post some sort of reasoning beyond a one-liner when you vote. Otherwise, it looks like you're just randomly choosing someone.
Anyway...
mod: please prod and/or replace Hercule Point.
He hasn't posted since the 29th of November... MORE than a week ago!
Also, please prod tracker, who hasn't posted since last Wednesday.
Ok, thanks. I didn't realize the prod time reset overnight.
Guys, we need to try and be more active than this. We can't win if we don't scum hunt and we can't scum hunt if we don't post. If you can't find anything to post, just post your thoughts.
Naughty little fly, why does it cry? Caught in a web, Soon you'll be...
sorry guys, i've been buried in homework, if i can't catch up by next Monday, i'll ask to be replaced.
I have a concert tommorow so probably won't get on then, pep-band and possible b-party friday, so no guarntees on anything more until Saturday or Sunday. That being said, I think our only (and probably best anyways) option at this point is to lynch Sirpent, his vote on me seems to me as a desparation vote, but, we have the entire day ahead of us and I'm personally not a fan of quick-lynches, however, I am very inclined to make do with one here,
Sirpent: any reason why we shouldn't lynch your scummy anti-town persona right now?
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I think it's pretty safe to say that Hercule isn't coming back. It's been a week and a half.
@mod:
please check for a replacement for him. there's only 5 people alive in the game right now so we can't afford to have someone AWOL.
@SirPent: how do you explain your actions from yesterday? Are you trying to justify it by saying you lied simply because you didn't like Gayle? Please explain.
The First thing I did was make up that Gayle was scum by just throwing it out there , but then his reaction to my accusation is what made me little iffy about him, so I wasn't too fond of him. In the end, he got lynched cause of the way he took it.
no, i think he got lynched because the idea of a townie claiming cop on another individual on the complete basis of "I don't like you" was ridiculous. I personally didn't even think of that as a possibility. It's complete and utter madness and you know what, I don't think any townie would even try this, so
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is Sunday, 27th December 20:00 UTC, which is 16 days, 6 hours and 26 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.
Looking for a Hercule Poirot replacement.
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
No, if the doctor/cop claims then we have 4 people to choose from. Since, I know that I am vanilla townie, I now have three people to pick from it would easily determine who is the last mafia.
I am tempted to hammer as it is, but given that the day is only just beginning and we need to wait for a HP replacement (and I'd like to hear his/her take on things before we move on), I will not do so.
In any case, Lying = scummy. I personally do not wish to enter LyLo (if we don't nab scum this time) someone who is going to lie to us, since we would not know whether or not he is telling the truth. Only scum have a reason to lie; townspeople should not lie because it only can hurt the town in the long run.
Further more, here is a quote from the Lynch All Liars wiki page:
In order to encourage *good* play, the policy should be: Lynch anyone caught in a lie. They are most likely Scum, and if they aren't, then lynching them might teach them that they should not lie.
You lie and get caught, you die. Enough said.
But like I said, I would like to see some more discussion before the day ends, so I would rather no one hammers yet.
Also,
the real cop or doctor should claim at this point
no. stop rolefishing. Besides, how do you know we have either one? Or how do you know we don't have both? I count this not only as rolefishing but also as setup speculation.
If
we have a cop, don't role claim unless you have a definite guilty on someone. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut or it might lose the game for us.
If
we have a doctor, don't role claim. It can't end good.
No, if the doctor/cop claims then we have 4 people to choose from. Since, I know that I am vanilla townie, I now have three people to pick from it would easily determine who is the last mafia.
And what's your plan of action for when you get down to 3 people? Just guess and hope you're correct? Because so far that is what you've been doing, and from experience, I can tell you that does not work very well.
SirPent wrote:no you lynch one and lynch another the next day,
And if you're wrong both times?
Let's think this through. If we don't lynch scum today, assuming no doctor, the next day is Lylo (lynch or lose). If we don't lynch scum that day, we lose.
So I don't really think that guessing twice based on a role claim is a good idea. We've already seen one person lie about a role claim and it didn't help us, so I can't see another one helping.
I agree with you IKD that extended days are beneficial to the town, but the discussion here is dragging, so after qax42 catches up we need to make a desicion.
However, I disagree about cop roleclaiming, if there is a cop out there, a real cop, if you are a vanilla townie don't claim cop, it never works out. I think now would be a good time to step forward, and actually it's probably the only time to step forward. Cops claiming in lylo are highly suspicious and must be taken with a grain of salt. However, a cop claiming now will have 2 investigation results that will be highly beneficial and even if a scum does claim cop his partner is dead so whoever he claims to have investigated will be a true townie. Therefore if there is a cop out there I am under the opinion that he should claim now.
more coming on this tommorow, I feel the need now to think over every possibility before action arrises.
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Hello! Analysis is ready—I was almost through reading before I got the confirmation PM because the game was really interesting.
@
Town
:
Vote: imkingdavid
Someone please unvote SirPent because imkingdavid will hammer and SirPent will flip town.
Long WoT approaching. There's a TL;DR at the bottom for the uninterested.To clarify, when I say "town" I mean the general populace of the proverbial town, with no allusions to role or alignment.
I claim Cop. I get one investigation a night, am sane and can be roleblocked. I'm not 100% sure if that ensures a mafia roleblocker or not. Mod-confirmed sanity check.
N1 Canada investigated tracker, who is confirmed town, but nothing on his role. N2 Hercule Poirot never submitted an action, so the Mod randomly picked imkingdavid and returned a positive result.
I don't necessarily expect anyone to believe me after the shit storm that was SirPent's behavior since replacing in, so it's a good thing that imkingdavid was my number one scum candidate since the early pages. Here is a breakdown of his scummiest posts:
Post numbers in this format: (actual)/(isolation)
#53/11: Votes RPG based on some very questionable meta. Self-proclaimed weak and unnecessary vote—FoS would have sufficed on such a weak argument.
#83/19: Votes Toon Fighter for lurking. Another weak vote.
#84/20:
imkingdavid, #20 iso wrote:So are you admitting to talking to your scum buddy this time around?
That is
extremely
scummy. Holy crap. The line of logic is absolutely flawed, and as it stands that is just putting words in RPG's mouth. Furthermore, any experienced played should know this.
This is later followed by:
Neo-con John wrote:This is an interesting piece of evidence here. I understand that this could have been an innocent unintentional use of words but it also could be a Freudian slip. If so it suggests that
(1)RPG is scum;
(2)RPG's scumpartner is one of the people he has not interacted with yet.
This is one confirmed scum riding on the back of a weak argument by his partner and giving it apparent merit.
#98/21: Unvote the wrong person. More evidence of throwing the vote around in an anti-town way.
#103/22:
imkingdavid, #22 iso wrote:
CommieX wrote:
IKD wrote:To be entirely truthful, it is mostly instinctual gut feelings based on what I remember from your meta. like I said above, I'll take some time to actually compare the two games. Sorry if it's a null tell. But it did get some discussion, did it not?
So you admit to making a hasty vote, but then it almost seems like you try to justify it by saying it got discussion?
Yep.
Speaks for itself.
#104/23: Re-votes TF. More voting confusion.
#125/28: More misunderstandings. This one in particular is not scummy by itself, but together with the general play, it is more scummy than not.
#142/31, 156/32: Begins to distance himself from Neo-con John after strong arguments put forth primarily by PaltryExcuse and tracker. Note how #142/31 just piggy-backs on existing arguments, and #156/32 seems to be an expansion on the "NCJ is not there anymore"-argument. The post is filled primarily with speculative observation.
There is this:
imkingdavid, #156/32 wrote:But we still have a good amount of time until deadline and discussion is still going.
Pressuring people to avoid the hammer until he can mount a defense, or buying time to let NCJ do so? Or it could be that he's working on trying to push someone else, probably tracker, back into the limelight and save his scumbuddy.
It worked (though, with a different lynchee):
Gayle, #163 wrote:Honestly, I don't think much of it at all. I was ready to hammer tracker until 1, I though I was being replaced and then 2, IKD posted. I'll have to look over Neo-Con John's posts and the case against him again.
Gayle, #172 wrote: I'm just saying it didn't seem like a good idea to hammer immediately after someone points out we still have plenty of time.
This read to me like newbie taking the word of an IC who, it seems, used his experience to influence people.
It ends with:
imkingdavid, #156/32 wrote:As a side note, I, by policy, do not like to try and look for scum partners and links between people until we know who one of the scum is. In order to not detract from the current discussion, I will refrain from posting why, unless someone doesn't understand how it can be a bad thing.
Reads a bit like an IC using his experience to try further distancing himself from the target, again.
#162/33: Finally votes NCJ when it looks clear that there's no alternative.
#175/35:
imkingdavid, #175/35 wrote:This post sounds like a lot of "I don't really care much about who gets lynched, I just want the day to end, but I don't want to draw attention to myself by ending after someone points out that it might not be beneficial to do so." Which is definitely NOT pro-town.
I don't think it reads like that at all. It reads like someone who, with a combination of advice from an IC, a mod mistake and general inexperience got confused. Not that hammering tracker is a good idea in hindsight, but he did play quite a scummy game if you remove imkingdavid and Neo-con John from the game.
Post ends with a FoS on Gayle. I guess now that the town is committed to voting Neo-con John, it's too late to throw the vote around like earlier.
#192/36:
imkingdavid, #192/36 wrote:Ok, at this point it looks like it's down to tracker or NCJ for a lynch unless we have a last minute wagon in the next few days. Or if we don't come to an agreement, it's No Lynch. So everyone needs to make a decision before deadline or we'll basically waste a day.
Yet some more pushing of other options. Still pushing tracker, brings up the no-lynch idea again and is trying to create confusion.
#200/38:
imkingdavid, #200/38 wrote:Having 3 different votes and 2 different FoS's by page 8 is hardly a reason for suspicion. It shows that I'm looking around and weighing possible options. If I had, say, 5 or 6 different baseless votes by now and was throwing suspicion at every person without much consistency, then there might be a cause of concern.
Actually, this is a cause for concern. There have been 5 people you've thrown suspicion on, almost all of which was done via very little analysis or others' analyis. Cause Of Concern.
OK, we're at the point where the shit hits the fan.
#268: SirPent just fakeclaimed cop and voted Gayle. In my reading I assumed this was a joke vote for quite a few posts. I can't believe anybody took this seriously. Every single one of his posts after that until the most recent has been of a troll (Gayle caught that one: #283). One that ruined the game, I'm afraid.
#284: tracker voted Gayle, which, as a semi-experienced player, blows my mind. I can't believe that anyone would fall from that. If there were three guaranteed scum, I didn't have a guaranteed town confirmation and tomorrow wasn't LyLo, I'd be pushing hard for back-to-back imkingdavid and tracker lynches.
#285/45: One hour after tracker, imkingdavid swoops in to vote Gayle. Looks like less of a muppet now that he's followed tracker. No IC should ever put a vote on such a terrible claim.
#288: Gayle self-votes. Terrible idea, though I understand the frustration. Never self-vote unless it guarantees town win.
#289/290: Both Toon Fighter and PaltryExcuse pick up on tracker and imkingdavid's ridiculous votes.
#291:
SirPent, #291 wrote:I just didn't like gayle. :p I really Didn't excpect that to pick up so much steam and a quick lynch, the real scum if I didn't guess correctly on gayle, lies between ikd and tracker.
I probably wouldn't have joined the game if I had read this far before I got my confirmation PM. Or, well, if I knew that I was going to be a cop with a confirmed hit on the last mafia member already. Too easy.
#300/47: imkingdavid tries to explain his actions. Very scummy explanation with a lot of apologies because of poor judgement, a recurring theme. Especially with:
imkingdavid, #300/47 wrote:s far as SP is concerned, here's my take on it. It would be complete idiocy to make such a claim that early on in the game as scum. On the same token, it would but just as stupid to make the claim as cop, especially since we just found out that he was lying if he was either scum or cop. So either he just doesn't care about the game and is screwing us over to give the scum an easy win, or he's being overly scummy on purpose to make us think he's not scum
Why is this being presented now, after you were responsible for getting Gayle lynched?
#315/51:
imkingdavid, #315/51 wrote:I am tempted to hammer as it is, but given that the day is only just beginning and we need to wait for a HP replacement (and I'd like to hear his/her take on things before we move on), I will not do so.
"Tempted to hammer"? Another quicklynch? No, this time there's an explanation that there will be some forethought, probably to avoid Toon Fighter jumping on him again.
@
imkingdavid
:
I assume you realize the statements about you throwing your IC weight around aren't personal—I'd do the exact same thing in your situation, probably. Though maybe a little subtler!
TL;DR
:
I'm a sane cop, confirmed imkingdavid as scum N2, and have shown he's played a scummy game anyway and has buddied with Neo-con John while he was alive. Tracker confirmed innocent N1. SirPent is basically a troll, and I'll actively avoid games with him in future.
Since I don't expect everyone in the town to believe me after SirPent's actions, I have presented a PBPA of imkingdavid highlighting a lot of scummy behavior.
Someone unvote SirPent to take him off L-1 before imkingdavid can make good on his hammer threat, at least until my case can be discussed.
to answer: would you guys have, in my position, claimed the cop or gone with (what I believe is) the strong evidence against imkingdavid
first
, then pushed the cop second. Or the other way around; not bothered with the WoT and just gone with the role. I'm wondering whether the WoT was worth it in essentially a won game.
Feel free to wait to answer this till after the game—this is purely for my curiosity.
