Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Incognito]

Eh, I'll give it a little more time. I'm slightly drunk lol.

And yeah, Annachie, you can hold off on the Randal stuff for a bit. It's prolly better that way.

[Ether]

Wait, wait, wait.

Being drunk makes you

less

confident now?

[Annachie]

Having experience with each other would hurt us as scum, not as town. Anything that they know to hide, they'd have to hide anyway. But I know what to look for, and what feels off.

Exactly what I was thinking which is why I'm watching you guys closely. There's a 58% chance that at least one of you is scum, and I suspect a much greater chance with you guys than with any random three players of the other/s spotting it first.

Worthy of an eye? I think so.

Annachie, uh, did give an opinion when asked.

On what? Merely that my gut feel is town for you three but so far I have little to back that up. Too early for definates.

[Ether]

Hey. It's more than what other people have.

Incognito's right; that isn't what people generally mean when they IGMEOY. It means "I'm slightly suspicious of this person." (Personally, I think IGMEOYS and FoSes are a waste of time, but many people disagree.)

[Annachie]

Incog I got told once that newbies reading the howto's is a scum tell. How should I treat being told to read them?

Did the person explain why he or she felt scum would be more likely to look up how-to's in the Wiki than town would? Do you yourself feel that way?

Sorry, forgot to address this.

No the person didn't say. Come to think of it the person who said it might have been scum in that game. I'll have to go check. Actually

(After reading 17 pages or so)

he was.
He must have said it to try and direct suspicion onto someone.

Still that's a fair question for the Se/IC's. Which newbie player is more likely to read the howto's Newbie town or newbie scum?

[Annachie]

re post#52

It's my first IGMEOY ever btw. But I wanted to say that's I'm watching to see what happens.

[Ether]

No worries. I can deal with those two.

I agree with Incognito that it's null and depends on the person. I'm not interested in pursuing this line of thought.

[boberz]

I have some more thoughts. I am not at all happy with ksen's responses and I do not think his presentation of a misunderstanding between us is accurate. But I do not want to push this further because I fear I may begiin to read scum into it when it is not that tell at all.

I notice both Patrick and Ether do not seem interested in my vote. I like this because not all three of you can be scum, so atleast one of you is trying to help me, I respect that.

Incognito, I was trying to explain in the first part of my accusation that your trap seemed extremely obvious, and more like a trap for newbie town to start believing you more (that would make twice I felt you had tried to set up a later possibility for undue influence)

herd: I am worried about your random vote, and the fact you feel the need to do it now. if you had waded in before any of us said anything that would be fair enough, but there has been proper conversation.

My vote for incognito stands but I am also wary of Ether and Patrick. There are slight reasons, but it is more a worry that two of the three of you only have to convince the other and it becomes a large force. Of course this is no evidence but something that makes me very wary.

[starkmoon]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 5

Ether

- 2 - Incognito, Patrick - (L-3)

Incognito

- 1 - boberz - (L-4)

Patrick

- 1 - herd456 - (L-4)

Yarmond

- 1 - ksen - (L-4)

Players not voting: Annachie, DarthRandall1138, Ether, Yarmond

(EDIT: Starky got a new toy..... [the VOTE COUNTER THNGY!])

[Ether]

We

are

a large force, and like I said, we have similar ideas on theory--but if all three of us agree on something, there's probably a reason for that. So...I don't particularly care if you're wary, but don't try putting that into a case.

I'm still not interested in your Incoghate. Having said that, my 51 was a serious question to him: I'm surprised that he put off reacting to my Herdhate.

[ksen]

How would town know it was in that situation? In the games I've played on other sites the Town doesn't normally know how many scum are in the game.

If you're claiming that you knew the number of scum in Newbie Games to be 2, why would you

not

be able to tell when we're in the type of situation mentioned by boberz even if games you've played elsewhere didn't allow you to determine this?

Because as I've said quite a few times now I wasn't talking about this specific game when I tried answering boberz's question about no-lynching.

[Patrick]

It's nice to be in a game where I can actually get some reads.

Unvote

herd pings slightly. His comment on Incognito's aim thing looks rather automatic considering it would apply equally to both me and Incognito and was only put forward as an argument for why we're not scumbuddies. The random vote doesn't particularly bother me considering it didn't come instead of content. My other early suspicion is ksen, who's thought process about the number of scum doesn't seem to make sense (not sure yet if this means much) and who's also posted 10 times but without any curiosity about alignments. I'd like to see more content from some others before deciding what to do though. I'd also like to hear Ether's opinion of ksen.

ksen: why start talking hypothetically if the very situation we're in actually answered your question to boberz?

@Patrick: I don't believe starkmoon was updating the "confirmed bolded" thing in regular fashion when she received confirmations. So while I can see where you're getting at with your disagreement, I don't think it would completely apply here.

This I don't know, not having been around for much of that time. I still feel like two scum taking ages over confirming would be poor play, but my reads so far make me care less about pursuing this debate.

[boberz]

Ether as I said, that was not my reason for suspicion, but just a fact that made me amplify anything I get off you three, does that make sense? Because I know you can be dangerous, any slight scum read I get is important, equally if I get a town read on two (or three) of the three of you then I would have to put more weight on that as well. I do not use it as evidence of scumness in itself. The evidence I have is even more sketchy than my stuff on incognito, so there is not point me voicing it really.

My case on incognito is weak, but it is the best one I can muster at the moment, if he was at L-1 or maybe even L-2 I would unvote, dont get the impression I am chasing for his lynch or anything.

Ksen I do not understand what you are chatting about now, you seem to be digging a hole (but not necessarily a scummy one). I think you either do not understand the points some of us have made about the no lynch or are trying to cover up for a previous misunderstanding, it is either a newb town or a clever (pretending to be newb town) scummy (even then only slight) play. I have you at neutral at the moment, I urge you to talk about something other than this discussion. What is your view on Annachie for example?

I agree with Patrick that we should leave the how long did scum take debate, for two reasons. We do not know how long they took although we know it was not that long, we do not really know who they are if we did know (only that if it took a long time experience was probably involved, which it didnt so we cant make this read) I fear this is a red herring discussion, that I realise I have just entered into.

Darth and Annachie I am keen to hear not a direct meta of each other, but perhaps an overview of how you will try to read each other later, or indeed already.

herd, this is more here for my benefit so I do not forget, but I want to know why you random voted, or was there a secret reason in the vote. I accept you have not had time to answer it when I asked earlier this is not me being impatient, just forward thinking. I understand Patrick's view here, but any vote is 1/5 of a lynch so I do not like random votes like that, so I want herd's justification.

I have just re read the recent posts again and I realise that perhaps I am too fearfull of getting misdirected by Ether Patrick and Incog. It is just if I believe two of their reads on the other then they could be scum and the thought will always be in my mind, if I believe the one over the other two (even more idiotic) he could be the scum. If I all three agree then a misread by one undermines brings me back to one of the first two situations (considering all three just read me town i dont know why i said that, but the logic remains). I am hoping me making general musings about how we should be carefull, will make it go away. Just like general musings about ending random voting tend to end it.

I am interested to hear from Yarmond, just because I havent yet.

[Ether]

My main issue with Herd isn't the AIM thing or the random vote.

You've got a point on Ksen, actually. I've been filtering out the no lynch discussion entirely, but it's true that he hasn't...done anything else. Ksen, who's scum?

(Patrick, why did you ask for my read on him instead of his read on other people? What do you hope to gain from continuing to grill him about the no lynch discussion?)

Incognito is correct about Starkmoon never editing the confirmations. (Or at least, not editing the thread until up to an hour before she unlocked it, which is around when I went to bed.) I assumed your point was that scum wouldn't realize this immediately. I sort of think you'd be more likely to keep checking back as scum, and your header felt kinda genuine, so I'm gonna take those as town tells.

[Ether]

Darth and Annachie I am keen to hear not a direct meta of each other, but perhaps an overview of how you will try to read each other later, or indeed already.

I don't think it's likely that they have more than an overview of each other, incidentally. It's just one game. (And I'd still prefer that they wait. Where's Randal?)

[Incognito]

unvote
vote: herd456

I'm not really concerned about herd's random vote on Patrick; I just get the feeling that herd456's #44 and #46 seem like slight appeals to authority.

Being drunk makes you

less

confident now?

No, it just made me way too lazy last night to actually want to look into stuff relevant to this game. Being slightly drunk + being stressed over school + the time of day = tired and lazy Incog last night. It took me way too much energy even to put my 48 together.

Because as I've said quite a few times now I wasn't talking about this specific game when I tried answering boberz's question about no-lynching.

Fair enough, I guess. Any thoughts on stuff related to this game then?

Patrick's bothering me a little bit. I can't completely explain why at the moment but something about his play has felt off to me so far. 61 looks a little better but the earlier posts, not so much. I guess I just haven't felt that distinctive town feel that I'm used to receiving from him in past games where he's been town.

@boberz: I see.

[Ether]

Heh. Everyone's coming up with all these completely different tells on Herd. I admit that, even though I support the Herdhate, I don't really understand your reason for voting.

I'd like Patrick to post more, yeah. But I would guess that he's town.

[Incognito]

Well, in 44 he mentioned that the AIM thing is pushing me towards the town side of the scale, but I'm not sure why that same logic didn't apply to Patrick. The phrasing of 46 seemed like he was plotting you against Annachie while simultaneously seeming to slightly buddy up to you by making it a point to mention that he agrees with

your

side of the debate as opposed to Annachie's. Maybe 'appeal to authority' isn't the right phrase. Attempting to 'join forces' might be better.

[Ether]

Fair enough. His take on Annachie is what bothers me, too.

[herd456]

I only made the random vote because I like to--it's not like I put him at L-2, and the game was still pretty new. Also, like Patrick said, it's not like I made a post with a random vote and no more.

I guess my posts last night weren't clear. My opinion of Annachie seems pretty accurate, I think? Except for mentioning a gut feeling, all he'd said about the three experienced players seems to be a request for Ether's opinion. I don't have much of a read on him otherwise, but this bothers me a little. So I guess I don't fully understand your unease, Ether.

And I don't actually know why I didn't include both Patrick and Incog as slightly pro-town, because that's what I meant to do. I must have forgotten to finish the thought.

I wasn't trying to buddy up with anyone, either--We shared an opinion about active lurking, and I mentioned this in a paragraph in which I addressed her directly.

My only other read at the moment is a slightly protown one on boberz. He seems like he's genuinely trying to help, and also pointed out how he's perhaps being misguided by the IC and SEs--which could, in theory, have been useful to him down the line as an excuse? I don't know, he just strikes me as pro-town.

[boberz]

I should check on the 'tricky half of Pathetric, though.

Incidentally, I didnt get a word of this, so I typed tricky half of pathetric into google and found the game you are chatting about. It does not seem particularly relevant to me. Can you explain what you meant, or is it just a private joke/irrelevant thing.

[boberz]

I only made the random vote because I like to--it's not like I put him at L-2, and the game was still pretty new. Also, like Patrick said, it's not like I made a post with a random vote and no more.

I can accept that as a reason, but I hate it being done.

My only other read at the moment is a slightly protown one on boberz. He seems like he's genuinely trying to help, and also pointed out how he's perhaps being misguided by the IC and SEs--which could, in theory, have been useful to him down the line as an excuse? I don't know, he just strikes me as pro-town.

The reason I keep mentioning it is so that I am aware of it and dont fool for it. Therefore it is actually removed as an excuse if that makes sense. ie if iever blame that then you can say, 'you were well aware of it'.

Do I insinuate from "trying to help" that I am actually hindering. Why? bad reads, too many posts, crap posts, all of the above.

Sorry for two posts in a row.

[Ether]

Not really sympathetic toward Herd's post.

I don't actually think the AIM stuff specifically would hamper Incognito or Patrick being scum; just them being scum

together

. (However, I've found reasons to write off each of them independently.) Elaborate on your train of thought there?

Boberz, Incognito was talking about Patrick. He just talks funny sometimes.

[boberz]

You think Incognito and Patrick are safe (i understand it is early in the game) is this purely based on meta's and your read based on knowing them. Is there any evidence you can point us to? Equally for either patrick/incog on ether.

[Incognito]

boberz: Pathetric was the name of a hydra account Ether and Patrick used to play in Mini 720 - SPQR (in case you or anyone else didn't know, a hydra account is an account two separate players share with one another in a particular game while having the same role PM). "'tricky" (with the apostrophe) is a shortened form of Patrick's name, which plays off the word "tricky".

tl;dr: I'm corny

sometimes

.

As for my read of Ether, I think she's town. The "hi, herd" thing back in 43 sealed the deal for me (that's her attempt to hunt possible lurkers) along with other things she's done so far like for example how often she's been peeking back at this game (I keep seeing her username in "The Road to Road" forum pretty much everytime I post). I doubt I'd see either of those two things coming from a scum Ether.