/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[Porochaz]

I've never played with Jack before, I am modding an ongoing with him in it so obv cant talk about it, whilst I can understand where your coming from and I do not support policy lynches of pretty much any kind, I do not feel ignoring or rewarding bad play is a good way to go, even if it is for reactions.

Thank you for the compliment though you have been upgraded to farside:)

[farside22]

I don't think there is any role fishing so I think my vote is a good one. Do I think it is Jack being Jack, sure. Right now I don't have a better place for my vote.

You are one big wall of helpful there aren't you. (sarcasm)

@Charlie: I get your view there about the argument and taking sides but do you think Sando's wrong in his thoughts on what Jack was saying there?

[Sotty7]

I think so. I'm voting for the person I view as the scummiest player at this point. I have some what limit experience with Jack, but I can see him doing this kinda thing as scum or as town. Really what is the big deal with a little pressure on him?

[Porochaz]

I haven't liked a thing sotty has said so far.

unvote vote sotty

[Sotty7]

You must have liked something. We were voting Jack for the same reason

[Porochaz]

Unvote, Vote: Jack

Not a good reason

[Porochaz]

It's not an RVS vote, why would you think that? I clearly asked you a serious question about being serious. You seriously replied and I seriously voted.

...Seriously.

Neither is this.

[Sotty7]

I'd also like to point out that Zach is lurking. Normally with a game only just opening I wouldn't go as far as calling someone on lurking, but he has posted in all this other games today but is avoiding this one. Zach's scum meta is to lurk, he hates playing scum and will only contribute to the thread if called upon. The thing is, he knows that I know this is his scum meta because I poke him about it all the time. SO I am feeling very WIFOM'ed right now.

Zach, where are you?

[Sotty7]

The second quote isn't a reasoning for my Jack vote Poro. It was me responding to Jack saying I would backtrack from my vote when he was lynched by saying it was an RVS vote. My vote clearly wasn't RVS. You got me on the simple vote though, I should have explained my reason why there. But I did later detail that it was because the lack of any rolefishing I saw and the ridiculousness of his statement.

[Zachrulez]

I don't see how either Sando or Jack are scummy from that exchange. Jack's rolefishing accusation doesn't really make sense to me, but I can't see a scum motivation for it either.

Porochaz and Sotty's votes on Jack look opportunistic to me.

[Zachrulez]

I'd also like to point out that Zach is lurking. Normally with a game only just opening I wouldn't go as far as calling someone on lurking, but he has posted in all this other games today but is avoiding this one. Zach's scum meta is to lurk, he hates playing scum and will only contribute to the thread if called upon. The thing is, he knows that I know this is his scum meta because I poke him about it all the time. SO I am feeling very WIFOM'ed right now.

Zach, where are you?

Just coming around to looking at this game, that's where.

[Porochaz]

I don't think there is any role fishing so I think my vote is a good one. Do I think it is Jack being Jack, sure. Right now I don't have a better place for my vote.

Ok so you know the way Jack plays then and you seem fine with it, yet you are still voting for him. By way of this quote, it seems that you have found an easy vote against an easy target and thats why your voting.

Also in the first post, you managed to outWIFOM yourself there. Well done on that.

[Sotty7]

I moved my vote onto Jack for pressure. He is the kinda of player that is a hard read because he plays a gut game. He's a good player that could do with some pressure. Either he'll keep going and explode and we'll find scum, or he'll come back, do some things that look good and I can move else where. Jack is

anything

but an easy vote.

Basically Jack gave me a reason to pressure him and I took it, in the early game I would rather do that than continue RVS banter or keep my RVS vote.

[farside22]

I think so. I'm voting for the person I view as the scummiest player at this point. I have some what limit experience with Jack, but I can see him doing this kinda thing as scum or as town. Really what is the big deal with a little pressure on him?

Your limited experience. So have you been in a game where Jack flipped scum?

Zach your not thrilling me much right now. Can't say why, but it's mostly it's the wash, rinse and repeat of something I already stated this game.

[Zachrulez]

I could care less about who I'm thrilling really.

Anyway, after looking back through the sequence of events, I think Porochaz is more likely scum than Sotty.

Unvote: Vote Porochaz

[Sotty7]

No farside, I have never seen Jack scum. I believe him to be a good player however and good players often control or adapt their meta to suit them. Early pressure on good players are a good thing.

Zach, why is Poro more likely to be scum than me?

[Zachrulez]

I don't really like the way he attacked your reasoning for your Jack vote as your reasoning was clearly the same as his.

He misreps you here.

Unvote, Vote: Jack

Not a good reason

Which is a good way to make you look bad except for the fact that right before the vote you posted this.

Jack, are you being serious?

And Poro's stated reason.

This is a ridiculous argument, Im not even sure Jack is being serious but

vote Jack

anyway, I do not see any rolefishing.

[Porochaz]

Its a good point.

[Porochaz]

I do feel my vote however was a way of pushing out the RVS, it was never a lynching vote. Sotty's question and Jacks response don't yield much into sotty's reasoning. It's just a question. If we go to

It's not an RVS vote, why would you think that? I clearly asked you a serious question about being serious. You seriously replied and I seriously voted.

...Seriously.

Its not clear that it wasn't an RVS vote, as he just voted with no initial reasoning but ignoring that, Jack didn't really answer the question and Sotty "seriously voted". Without ever gleaming an answer to his question. He states the reasoning is the same as mine but my reasoning is that I don't reward stupid play and the lack of rolefishing in that comment was the reason why Im voting. Sotty states his reasoning I guess in 35 and then starts speculating about it, (which does give me off vibes). But fair enough its a reason. However in post 49 he states that he knows that this is how Jack plays, therefore is his vote on Jack warranted, if this is how Jack plays? Personally I don't think so and increasing pressure around me suggests that this is a null tell having not played with Jack before. So I should unvote, sotty obviously sees this as well as stated in 52 but doesn't unvote and I don't understand how still voting him for what is essentially a null tell is helping, especially when sotty knows it. Hence why it looks like an easy target vote, hence why Im voting for him.

[Porochaz]

That post was done in bad engrish, I hope you can decipher it okay.

[Sotty7]

My issue with Poro at the moment is how long it took for him to vote me. He mentions a couple of times that he doesn't like me but it takes awhile for him to shift his vote over. Almost as if he was testing the waters.

However, the reason I'm not voting for him right now is because his view of events is plausible, in that he could have genuinely not understood my reasoning surrounding my Jack Vote. He could have been confused.

[Porochaz]

Was still happy with my vote on Jack at that time, the only reason I brought you up before because farside asked. I would prefer you to vote me actually. I mean yes it would add credence to my theory that you are just bandwagoning the easier targets but at least you would be doing something worthwhile with your vote and not voting someone for something that you cant get a tell either way from.

[Jack]

UNVOTE, VOTE:SOTTY

"right now I don't have a better place for my vote" <--SCUM BEING DEFENSIVE
"what's the big deal with a little pressure" <-- Look at all of sotty's excuses for her vote and how it isn't a big deal, and then see how they apply 10x better to the people pressuring her. But scum take things personal like that.
"I'd like to point out that zach is lurking" <-- AKA "LET'S SHIFT ATTENTION OFF OF ME PLEASE, HOW ABOUT SOME PRESSURE ON THE PAGE 3 LURKERS"
"rest of sotty's posts"<-- SCUM TIPTOEING

5 more votes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Any reason you felt the need to not bother reading the thread? Indecisive as to whether to attempt to mislead the town?

I’ve read the thread. I appreciate the attempt at humor. What I find interesting is that you are the only one who bothered to attack my ‘mistake’. Add your ‘random’ start of game vote and I have to wonder - Holding a grudge from the Newbie game for some reason?

First to accuse of rolefishing is scum.

And yes I'm serious, rolefishing is one of those accusations that is incredibly easy and safe to make as scum because it is seen as one of the most anti-town thing you can do and it is very easy to make a fairly innocuous statement look like rolefishing.

Have any links that support your assertion?

You obviously never played with Jack. I dubbed him the person to always do something scummy for reaction purposes. It's why I like playing with him. He gets the game going that way.

I’m going to agree. My experience with Jack shows exactly this behaviour.

I'd also like to point out that Zach is lurking. Normally with a game only just opening I wouldn't go as far as calling someone on lurking, but he has posted in all this other games today but is avoiding this one. Zach's scum meta is to lurk, he hates playing scum and will only contribute to the thread if called upon. The thing is, he knows that I know this is his scum meta because I poke him about it all the time. SO I am feeling very WIFOM'ed right now.

So you call out Zach for lurking as Scum Meta and then undercut your own argument?

[Jack]

magna that post lacks a shotty vote. Why do you still have your vote parked on zajnet?