Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[Andrius]

Votecount 1.3

"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." - Pete Clemencza

RedCoyote (1): Wingless
StrangerCoug (1): bv310
bv310 (1): pacman281292
pacman281292 (2): Thor665, FakeGod
Thor665 (1): RedCoyote
Exilon (2): Far_Cry, StrangerCoug
Bud Bidderskins (1): Exilon

Not Voting (3): Zajnet, Katsuki, Bub Bidderskins

With 12 alive it takes 7 to gun someone down.
Deadline is set at October 31st, at 5:00pm PST.

In other news, game has been slow. Let's get more active! I'll look into prods tomorrow, but I think everyone's posted at least once since the game began 3 days ago.

[Far_Cry]

I've figured out the standout to the Far_Cry post I quoted last post—the Mr. Big Mouth tone of the post. I'm not fond of it, so I'm going to throw a

minor FoS

at him, but Exilon doesn't look pretty either and has a worse problem with it. The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

Please excuse me, for I know I acted like a jackass that day. I've just had some long days, and was tired. I hope it doesn't happen again.

[RedCoyote]

Unvote

;

vote: bv310

Give us something to work with.

[Zajnet]

Unvote

;

vote: bv310

Give us something to work with.

What's that vote for?

[RedCoyote]

Well, he said he was going to make a new post, and he hasn't.

Just about everyone else has, more or less, given us something to analyze. It's time for bv310 to take a stance on something going on, or, failing that, give us something else to talk about.

[Katsuki]

/should be studying

Vote: RedCoyote

Bad acting is bad acting.
In short, BS pressure vote to look town.


Sorry about my lack of activity, hopefully I will be able to get caught up by tomorrow/friday at the latest.

[Exilon]

*cracks with laughter*

So that means that somebody who says "Yes! Lynch FC & vote vote vote!" is town, while somebody who asks for the reasons behind the accusations is scum.

Nope, that's not what I said. You either agree or don't agree with me; in any case, asking why without any further content doesn't really serve a purpose. I obviously have my reasons for saying that, and actually, I already outed them. Read again.

Assume for a moment that I'm scum, and assume that far-cry is town. I know far-cry is town, so I want him lynched. When some one comes up and says that far cry is scum, I want to support that person, regardless of his reasons. In this case, I would be town according to your trap but in actualitiy I would be scum. /end assumption

Now assume that I'm town and I don't know what far-cry is. Some one (i.e. you) just comes out of the blue and says that far-cry is scum. What do I want as town? More information. I'd ask what his reasons were for saying that

far-cry is town

. /end what actually happened

First part is pure WIFOM, second part shows you admitting to be a bit anti-town. Instead of finding your own reasons to agree or disagree with me, ergo taking the initiative, you prefer to lay back a bit.

Also the bolded part; nice typo.

Of course, the person who does go on a murderous rampage could just be a village idiot, or the person who asks for info could be diplomatic scum, but we're venturing into WIFOM terrirtory here. Looks like I caught the "crap" in your trap

Yes, WIFOM. And yes, that's part of the crap.

Do you actually think those two are scum, or did you just pick them arbitrarily?/

AND YOU'RE STILL TRYING TO GET ME TO STATE REASONS BEFORE YOU DARE COME UP WITH YOUR OWN.
Also, read again. I did not pick them arbitrarily. I stated I didn't, and I stated I had reasons, and I even already stated them, and I EVEN TOLD PEOPLE IN BOLD I DID AND TO DISCUSS. YOU STILL DON'T. WHUT

With things like this, am I supposed to believe you paid real attention to what I wrote? No.

---

In other words you're lecturing everyone on how pro-town you are. This sort of conceit does not strike me as particularly positive.

I'm describing my behaviour and why I believe that sort of approach makes sense. Obviously I believe I'm pro-town. Whether you agree with it or not is not my decision and you more than welcome to show us why.

Don't tell me what I should and shouldn't bring up.

The quote this is adressing asked 'why didn't you do this' and such, it didn't say what you should or should not be doing.

I have no interest in you shooting your mouth off about x and y being scum because

I know it has no substance to it

but if you're going to wave your hands up in the air and say,

"Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!",

then that's something the town should deal with.

Actually, it has LOTS of substance, which I already showed everyone. (as possible in this stage of the game)
Also, this:

Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!",

is not what I said.

then that's something the

town

should deal with.

...Why?

Again, same question posed: Commenting on a role is more important than commenting on a 'x and y is scum' claim?

If you can't keep your mouth shut about your role like the other

11 players

, then that's something the town will have to deal with now. Maybe you're content with assuming the scum don't notice things like that, but I, for one, play as though the scum would be able to at least pick up anything I can and then some.

I can get a quote if you want, but I wasn't the only one in 12 players who said something about their role after confirming,

AND I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS; GOOD TO KNOW YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION.

Also, that part of the quote... it makes no sense. Please explain your last sentence? Again, I ask, 'why does town have to deal with it?'

---

All I'm getting out of Exilon is that he is trying very hard to look town, and seems to know off the bat who scum is. I'm not getting anything that Exilon is saying up to this point. Rather than actually trying to hunt scum, it only looks like he's coming up with vague reasons to vote for other people, and is trying not to look suspicious (which he is not succeeding in doing.) Therefore, I'm keeping my vote where it is.

..Ok, lol. This deserves a bit of breakdown.

All I'm getting out of Exilon is that he is trying very hard to look town

why

and seems to know off the bat who scum is

Why? hint: I don't know who scum is.

I'm not getting anything that Exilon is saying up to this point

Then read again, try again, or ask for clarification instead of whining about it. Better question: if you don't get what I'm saying, why the hell are you making such assessments? How can you call someone scum if you don't know what they're saying or EVEN ASKING ABOUT IT?

Rather than actually trying to hunt scum

How do you know this if you don't understand what I am saying etc.

it only looks like he's coming up with vague reasons to vote for other people

As shown by the immense plethora of votes I have unleashed.

and is trying not to look suspicious (which he is not succeeding in doing.)

lol. Firstly, this makes no sense: Suspicious is pretty subjective, so there is no common criteria for being suspicious. Therefore, for you to say I'm trying to not be suspicious, which criteria are you using? Yours, or mine? If it's mine, then how can you say I'm trying to not be suspicious if you do not know what I classify as being suspicious? If it's yours, then how can I try to not look suspicious if I do not know what you consider suspicious? If this doesn't make any sense to you, then just go with this TL;DR version:

Why? Show us quotes, or in other words, support your accusation: from where do you induce that I am trying to not look suspicious?

Therefore, I'm keeping my vote where it is.

" I AM UNABLE TO READ EXILON OR UNDERSTAND HIM, IT ONLY

SEEMS

THAT HE'S TRYING TO LOOK TOWN AND IT

SEEMS

LIKE HE'S TRYING TO NOT BE SUSPICIOUS. THEREFORE, I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE AN EFFORT AT UNDERSTANDING HIM IN ORDER TO SUPPORT OR DISPROVE MY ACCUSATION AND MY VOTE WILL BE KEPT ON HIM."
No. Try again.

---

The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

That's it? You just vote? What about the rest of the post? My questions to everyone? Why do you think the analysis is crap? Do you agree with me? Yes or no? Why?
If you want to switch gears, where's the rest of iniative?

[Thor665]

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I think Red Coyote is now my #2 and Bub is lurking at #3 and will be clarified more once he answers my question from last page.

@Zajnet - you've asked a lot of questions but all the stances you've taken I would term as "safe" stances insomuch as they're not taking a strong stance and/or are about inconsequential happenings. Who is your current top scum read and why?

[Wingless]

Sorry for not having posted much recently, I am planning the reread of this topic today.

[Wingless]

I'm sorry, this won't work today. I'm travelling tomorrow, maybe then, but i'll be back on saturday.

V/LA until Saturday

[Exilon]

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I disagree with this. A pressure vote has the objective of putting someone closer to a lynch so as to make that person feel pressured to post content. In that sense, I do not think claiming a vote as a pressure vote defeats the purpose- after all, it has the same effects.

Is there another reason for you to agree with Katsuki? Do you think RedCoyote is scummy?
Also, why is it dangerous to say, why do you have to dive for cover? Aren't you confident in your opinion?

[Thor665]

1. It's fine that you disagree - I disagree with your disageement.

2. I put him as my #2, so yes, I find him fairly scummy within the options I have presented before me. I'll add that I was not particularly a fan of either of his last two votes (myself and bv) The vote on me was just awful, and the vote on bv was apparently because he couldn't just come up with a question for bv to answer - which was functionally what he was saying "I'm voting you because you haven't provided insight yet" which is another awful vote. Not even sure why he unvoted me yet - his voting pattern is just weak and weak suggests lack of belief which suggests scummy.

3. No, I'm drastically nervous about my opinion at all times and live in eternal fear of anyone questioning it ever. Or I was making a joke. I don't recall which.

[StrangerCoug]

The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

That's it? You just vote? What about the rest of the post? My questions to everyone? Why do you think the analysis is crap? Do you agree with me? Yes or no? Why?

You just mangled two player names together.

I didn't just vote. I said that I thought your claim that RedCoyote was rolefishing is crap. I'm being rushed right now, so the rest when I get home.

If you want to switch gears, where's the rest of iniative?

What do you mean?

[Katsuki]

@Thor: Not exactly why I am voting RC.

Reinactment:

BV: Sorry guys, midterm, am catching up
RC: OH HI THERE, I SEE YOU CATCHING UP, BUT I NEED SOMEWHERE TO PARK MY VOTE SO IMMA PRESSURE VOTE YOU.

[StrangerCoug]

The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

That's it? You just vote? What about the rest of the post? My questions to everyone? Why do you think the analysis is crap? Do you agree with me? Yes or no? Why?

You just mangled two player names together.

I didn't just vote. I said that I thought your claim that RedCoyote was rolefishing is crap. I'm being rushed right now, so the rest when I get home.

And here it is:

RedCoyote is getting on your case for talking about your role. I can see how asking you what you mean by your role

NOT

getting you nightkilled

could

be considered rolefishing (emphasis meant to clearly indicate I was reading), but he's mainly trying to get you to shut up about your role so you do not leak important information to scum. In fact, you've already softclaimed bulletproof—not something you should have done. Best case scenario, the post does exactly what it says on the tin and tells the scum to kill someone else.

I can get a quote if you want, but I wasn't the only one in 12 players who said something about their role after confirming,

AND I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS; GOOD TO KNOW YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION.

Again, not something scum needs to know. I love having lots of information, but gee whiz, this is getting anti-town!

I don't have major problems with any of your other cases that I can think of right now.

[Zajnet]

@Zajnet - you've asked a lot of questions but all the stances you've taken I would term as "safe" stances insomuch as they're not taking a strong stance and/or are about inconsequential happenings. Who is your current top scum read and why?

Red is my #1 scum read right now simply for his vote on bv. That is the single most glaring scum tell so far to me.

[Thor665]

Why did you not decide to mention this or vote him for that action?

[Zajnet]

I inquired as to what his vote was for. I don't typically overtly tell people that I find them scummy. I'd rather inquire why they did something and go from there. His answer didn't convince me, because bv wasn't the only one who hadn't given much to analyze, and he's going through midterm week. I know how that goes; mine was a couple weeks ago.

I also don't throw my vote around oftenly. It's part of my reborn playstyle because I always used to vote hop a lot and not really provide reasons and I got lynched a lot as town. Now I'm trying to be more sure that someone is likely scum and hasn't just made one mistake before I vote them.

[RedCoyote]

Vote: RedCoyote

Bad acting is bad acting.
In short, BS pressure vote to look town.

That's a valid point. It's incorrect, of course, but it's valid nonetheless. I'm not trying to "look" anything. Do you dispute that bv said he was going to post on Wednesday but did not? Do you dispute that bv is the last person to give any substantial analysis? Nothing about what I said is disputable factually, but, then again, you're not coming at me with the claim that my vote isn't rational, you're saying my motivation for it should be in question.

*shrugs*

It's your call, Kat. I can make a meta argument if you'd like, but I'm not exactly sure how I can retort that doesn't just amount to, "It's not a BS vote".

---

The quote this is adressing asked 'why didn't you do this' and such, it didn't say what you should or should not be doing.

The implication is clearly there. You're making this into the Exilon show, you know, and we're all little action figures in your cardboard box.

It's fine if you want to be a leader, but you're already rubbing me the wrong way.

Also, this:

Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!"

, is not what I said.

The effect is the same. The point I'm making is that you're softclaiming.

Again, same question posed: Commenting on a role is more important than commenting on a 'x and y is scum' claim?

Because there is no scumtell, no read, and no power, that I know of, that will give you a perfect predicition of every player's alignment some 3 or 4 pages into the game. That's pure arrogance and foolhardy behavior that will just set everyone off course. The only players that know the scum are the scum themselves.

Commenting on the role becomes more important when you softclaim out of the blue.

Also, that part of the quote... it makes no sense. Please explain your last sentence? Again, I ask, 'why does town have to deal with it?'

You don't have to ask the same question multiple times in one post. My last sentence means that if I'm able to pick up on your, "I have a role that will get me nightkilled", then the scum will just as easily be able to.

---

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I don't get why it's "dangerous" to say you agree with Kat, or why you'd feel the need to dive for cover. Because of her age or meta? I mean, I understand this is more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but this rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, Kat is one of the most productive players so far, imo.

Anyways, your argument is slightly different. You're saying I'm being hypocritical. I would counter that FG's vote is significantly different than mine.

FG: Let's see how Bub acts with... two votes on him!
RC: bv said he'd do x, but he didn't. I'm voting him until he does something.

There's a stated purpose for my vote, whereas FG is just voting for voting's sake. I'll admit that my vote is less of a threat because of the purpose I've given it, but my vote is not intended to be working towards a lynch anyways.

Also I agree with your point against Zaj.

---

Red is my #1 scum read right now simply for his vote on bv. That is the single most glaring scum tell so far to me.

Why are you not voting me then? I do not like this. This sounds very forced.

His answer didn't convince me, because bv wasn't the only one who hadn't given much to analyze, and he's going through midterm week.

I'm getting a little sick of this. Kat did this too, but it's worse when you do it because it seems like you're just rewording what she said. I'm a student too, and I have mid-term tests as well. I'm not some anti-education ogre who is punishing precious, innocent bv, okay? Let's keep this in perspective and not use AtE to twist the situation up. bv said he'd post two days ago and he hasn't done so. Period.

Furthermore, I'm not even aiming these big guns at bv like you and Thor are claiming. I mean, I'm not sitting here pushing a lynch. I'm effectively saying, "Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar".

[Zajnet]

Red is my #1 scum read right now simply for his vote on bv. That is the single most glaring scum tell so far to me.

Why are you not voting me then?

I do not like this. This sounds very forced.

His answer didn't convince me, because bv wasn't the only one who hadn't given much to analyze, and he's going through midterm week.

I'm getting a little sick of this. Kat did this too, but it's worse when you do it because it seems like you're just rewording what she said. I'm a student too, and I have mid-term tests as well. I'm not some anti-education ogre who is punishing precious, innocent bv, okay? Let's keep this in perspective and not use AtE to twist the situation up. bv said he'd post two days ago and he hasn't done so. Period.

Furthermore, I'm not even aiming these big guns at bv like you and Thor are claiming. I mean, I'm not sitting here pushing a lynch. I'm effectively saying, "Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar".

I've already answered the bolded part.

I can completely understand bv not posting when he said he would during midterm week. I don't think that that is anywhere near vote-worthy just a day or two after he was supposed to post. When I see a vote, I see that as a stronger statement than what you're saying. If you wanted to say, "Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar," then you should have said, "Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar."

[Thor665]

@Red Coyote - Take your last sentence ("Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar".) and pretend you'd posted that instead of a vote.

What would be different in the effect on bv?

The vote is pointless, and you've made it pointless - a simple "hey, bv, stop lurking and post moar!" would be just as effective and allow you to put your vote on someone you're actually willing to call scummy - which you have yet to really do with bv, so it makes me wonder why you'd bother voting him at all.

I don't get why it's "dangerous" to say you agree with Kat, or why you'd feel the need to dive for cover. Because of her age or meta? I mean, I understand this is more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but this rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, Kat is one of the most productive players so far, imo.

...wow, I have a *very* different read on the effectiveness of Katsuki's posts then you do. I think there have effectively been 2.5 out of 9 that had any point to the game at all - maybe I'm just really dumb.

As far as diving for cover, it's because my tongue had to leap into the cheek trench due to the danger all around me. I'm fine if it "rubs you the wrong way" though I surmise you probably have little joy in your life.

Final question - Why do you think bv is worse in breaking his promise of when to post then pacman is?

EBWOPreview - well, great minds think alike, clearly. I was more abrasive in my commentary though, so I'll leave it.

[Katsuki]

@RC: I am quite aware of bv's reputation. That actually adds to the factor of bv being an easy place to park a vote.

Not to mention, this week for me is probably the same for bv, so I can see where he is coming from content wise (conducting 8hrs or so of interviews + midterms sucks).

However, I am not getting the fear that some people seem to have of placing a vote on RC (coughthorcough). If I am not wrong in reading that thor's reasoning behind suspicion of RC is not the same as mine, then I am left to wonder.
I am also not fond of zajnet withholding votes. I see no town motivation for not voting. The "oh I am not voting to avoid wagon-hopping" argument is quite invalid.


I still have yet to read through the thread, have only been able to slightly keep up with more "recent" events. That said, I do beg you guys to stop all these walls of words to make it easier on my eyes. IF I recall past pages properly, these are probably the longest 5 pages I have ever played in (15-20pages in the first day of a game is far better than this).

[RedCoyote]

I've already answered the bolded part.

So you don't like to throw around a vote. Okay, fair enough, but you're not voting anyone. It seems like a cop out answer. There's a thin line between not throwing your vote around and acting too passive.

Anyways, what you and Thor seem to be saying is that I could accomplish the same goal without using a vote at all. I guess that's fair enough; I'll back down.

Unvote

;

vote: FakeGod

For his general lack of passion and willingness to kind of preemptively assign his vote on a theoretical basis I guess is how I would describe it. I've never really heard of this strategy, but it sounds fake at worst and misguided at best.

---

...wow, I have a *very* different read on the effectiveness of Katsuki's posts then you do. I think there have effectively been 2.5 out of 9 that had any point to the game at all - maybe I'm just really dumb.

I don't and wouldn't count anyone's pre-game posts.

As far as diving for cover, it's because my tongue had to leap into the cheek trench due to the danger all around me. I'm fine if it "rubs you the wrong way" though I surmise you probably have little joy in your life.

Look, I get it's a joke. I'm not saying joking rubs me the wrong way. I'm just saying I don't really get it, especially given that I don't see Kat as particularly anti-town, which was, I take it, the implication of the joke.

Why do you think bv is worse in breaking his promise of when to post then pacman is?

pacman has given content, bv hasn't.

[Thor665]

However, I am not getting the fear that some people seem to have of placing a vote on RC (coughthorcough). If I am not wrong in reading that thor's reasoning behind suspicion of RC is not the same as mine, then I am left to wonder.

cough*Because I might still be trying to get something going on a player who currently feels to be lurking for defense*cough

[Bub Bidderskins]

[quoute="Thor665"]Bub is lurking at #3 and will be clarified more once he answers my question from last page.[/quote]

Sorry. Trust me, there at least three times when I was literally half-way done with writing my reply to your question when I had to go. Now I can answer it.

@Bub - you said you read Pacman/Thor as townie vs. townie - why?

Because of the way Pacman and you went out there in such a way as to draw attention to yourself. For a couple of pages, you were the sole attraction of the town. That is not a place scum want to be.