Open 258 --- Night Watch --- Game Over

[nameloc1986]

Guys you will realize that Joystick marches to the beat of a different mafia drum.

Anyways, I don't agree with Joystick's theory. If new evidence comes in that they may really be townie, then why lynch them? Not saying we should just believe their claim as a VT, but even PR's might claim VT.

Like Bazz, I'm fairly new here too. I played "real life" mafia COUNTLESS times but only started playing online just recently.

@Everybody: So far shotty and Joystick have been the bandwagons of choice. If you had to lynch one of these two NOW, which one would you choose and why?

[andrew94]

Your trying to hard Andrew

I learned to play on another site where day 1 if we bw a vt, wr lynch and move on

over herei see people let VTs live and a new bw is formed, it seems to happen more often so people here don't follow that theory hence I'm in the minority

er stop with the insults or i shall start.
when i looked at your post 'minority' i thought instantly to 'uninformed minority' aka town, therefore i felt you were trying too hard to be town

[2003041]

I wouldn't choose anyone right now because those votes are from the RVS stage. I would note vote for either one because there are no arguments for them (even there are no arguments agaisnt them either). As long as everyone participates and we don't lynch too early D1, we stand a better chance of catching scum.

Going to Joystick's point, even if we get a VT claim D1, that's not such a bad thing because we would have a better idea of who the scum may be. And, if they're ruly acting scummy (as in their on everyone's list), it wouldn't be the worst lynch possible IMO.

Also, BAZZ!!! YOU'R HERE TOO!!!!!! Here's hoping that you don't get replaced lol.

[nameloc1986]

Yeah but the question was you HAD to. It's not like I'm asking you to lynch one of them right now. It's just hypothetical.

[2003041]

I still wouldn't. There's no evidence. I really don't support a lynch if there's little to no evidence.

[nameloc1986]

*facepalm* You miss my point, but fine.

To answer my own question: ATM I would go for Joystick, not because I think he's scum but because I'm getting a town read on shotty.

Again this question is completely hypothetical.

[Zdenek]

So far I haven't liked the play of antihero. Twice he makes posts that seem to be attempts to discourage people from accusing others of being scum.

Opportunism is the easiest thing for scum to accuse their wagoners of, because it usually involves vague generalities like this.

Scum do act opportunistically.

How is this a scumtell?
It's easy to label someone's behavior (e.g. "overreaction") without really explicitly calling it scummy. It's just sphagetti flinging and it's quite scummy.

This is his reply to Joystick's post where he comments that Shotty is overreacting to the wagon on him. Joystick makes no comment about whether it is scummy or not, but antihero interprets the post as an accusation and uses this interpretation as a way to attack joystick.

Unvote Shotty
Vote antihero

[jasonT1981]

*facepalm* You miss my point, but fine.

To answer my own question: A

TM I would go for Joystick, not because I think he's scum but because I'm getting a town read on shotty.

Again this question is completely hypothetical.

Not liking this at all.... he would go for JS not because he thinks he is scum.. but because he thinks someone else is town? its like your saying Shotty and JS are our only options, maybe I am reading youy wrong but this is how it is coming across.

unvote
vote:nameloc

[jasonT1981]

Actually,

unvote

Just realized your previous question was who to go for between the pair.

[ooBAZZoo]

I get the lynch VT thing now, and I have to say I kind of agree. [To be honest, I've never believed the whole "L-1 claim" thing is as important as some players find it: If you find a player scummy enough to vote them you should be willing to see them lynched regardless of their claim; anybody can lie at L-1]. The only problem with lynching claimed VTs is if a player really is VT, then they many be forced to claim a PR, which surely screws alot of things up.

@nameloc -

@Everybody: So far shotty and Joystick have been the bandwagons of choice. If you had to lynch one of these two NOW, which one would you choose and why?

This does read as though you are narrowing down our options. Perhaps you are trying to draw attention to these two so we are more likely to find them scummy at a later date (scum-motive), or perhaps you are trying to get discussion going to bring us out of an RVS (town-motive). In answer, I know you've said its hypothetical, but I really couldn't say who I found scummier at such an early stage. If you pushed me for an answer, I'd only be giving one for a mundane reason, so I may as well role a dice and see.

@Zdenek -
I disagree with your post about Anithero discouraging others from accusing (post #81). I think its important for a town player to be vocal if they think somebody is making unfair, or tenuous, accusations; it helps us avoid mislynches.

@2k3 -

BAZZ!!! YOU'R HERE TOO!!!!!! Here's hoping that you don't get replaced lol.

Nice to play with you again. Unfortunately I'm stone broke at the moment, so even if the opportunity for a random holiday does arise, I wouldn't be able to take it anyway. I'm in this one for the long haul

[Zdenek]

I get the lynch VT thing now, and I have to say I kind of agree. [To be honest, I've never believed the whole "L-1 claim" thing is as important as some players find it: If you find a player scummy enough to vote them you should be willing to see them lynched regardless of their claim; anybody can lie at L-1]. The only problem with lynching claimed VTs is if a player really is VT, then they many be forced to claim a PR, which surely screws alot of things up.

Day one there's not a lot to go on so making a mistake is easy, it's a good idea for people to claim before lynching them. Also VT's probably shouldn't lie to save themselves.

@Zdenek -
I disagree with your post about Anithero discouraging others from accusing (post #81). I think its important for a town player to be vocal if they think somebody is making unfair, or tenuous, accusations; it helps us avoid mislynches.

Are you trying to argue that scum don't act opportunistically or that Joystick said that someone overreacting to a wagon on themselves is scummy?

[nameloc1986]

@nameloc -

@Everybody: So far shotty and Joystick have been the bandwagons of choice. If you had to lynch one of these two NOW, which one would you choose and why?

This does read as though you are narrowing down our options. Perhaps you are trying to draw attention to these two so we are more likely to find them scummy at a later date (scum-motive), or

perhaps you are trying to get discussion going to bring us out of an RVS

(town-motive). In answer, I know you've said its hypothetical, but I really couldn't say who I found scummier at such an early stage. If you pushed me for an answer, I'd only be giving one for a mundane reason, so I may as well role a dice and see.

[the bolded part]: That's pretty much it.

Just to clarify, I do realize that those aren't the ONLY two suspects and that there is a chance that neither could be scum. It's the discussion, that I'm interested in.

[curiouskarmadog]

@andrew.

exactly so know we have gotten no where, and we are right where we started, also now there is a wagon on a town person, with no reasoning, and this sucks.
Also anti hero, your deffending of name is noted

Wagons on town seem to be the way most games start.

When it comes to Shotty he jokes about being mafia and he seems to think that nameloc will later say that his "reason" is a real reason for getting on a bandwagon.

Vote Shotty

as I was quoting this to explain what I thought as a scum slip up, I realized it wasnt....I read it originally that he had some inside knowledge, ie who was town.....

what he was actually doing was just stating that most wagons Day 1 are usually on town (nothing more)...what I thought he said was that most wagons are town (like in this game)...I thought "how does dude know that the current wagon is town"?

unvote

I misread it.

[ooBAZZoo]

@Zdenek -

Are you trying to argue that scum don't act opportunistically or that Joystick said that someone overreacting to a wagon on themselves is scummy?

Neither - I said I disagree because I don't believe that Antihero has been posting in order to "discourage people from accusing others of being scum" (which is your case against Antihero). I'm not corroborating with what Antihero says, only I disagree that what he has said displays a scum-motive.

But if you'd like to know anyway: I think scum do act opportunistically at times, but that its incredibly hard to determine what is 'scum acting opportunistically', and what is 'town trying to lynch scum', so its often (not always) best to avoid the 'opportunistic' line of thought.

With regards to Joystick's post about Shotty overreacting ("overreaction much" is the exact phrase Joystick uses I believe), I think that this could be a minor scum-tell. Joystick highlights Shotty's overreaction (which is often used as a scumtell) but doesn't explicitly say he finds it scummy. Joystick is drawing attention to Shotty's behaviour without getting his hands dirty. This is my view, which I believe is what Antihero is trying to highlight too. Its still early days though, and I wouldn't say my read of Joystick is scum just because of this post.

[curiouskarmadog]

can someone show me the post where joystick says that shotty is overreacting...I think i am missing it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

policy lynching = epic fail

So, jason, how about a shotty or joystick wagon?

Did you really just do this sir???
God not only did you just epicly sheep, but what am I at L-1 now? or is it L-2?

my vote count shows only 3 votes for you, overreaction much?

[curiouskarmadog]

joystick, do you feel that overreaction is scummy? why or why not..

[PogoStick]

No I don't think it is scummy, just unneccessary. It's just a game

[nameloc1986]

@shotty: Why is loc's vote "opportunistic"?

Because that was a really easy shot for scum to slip onto a wagon with a "reason", and push a mislynch

...
Opportunism is the easiest thing for scum to accuse their wagoners of, because it usually involves vague generalities like this.

Antihero makes a post about opportunism, saying it's something scum would accuse someone else of (referencing shotty) but doesn't admit that scum would use opportunism either.

policy lynching = epic fail

So, jason, how about a shotty or joystick wagon?

Asks Jason to hop on a BW then....

That said, Jason why did you vote shotty?

meh, i was asking for opinions. The fact that jason didn't give any looks kind of bad. BTW, wouldn't jason be sheeping me?

...places suspicion on Jason after he answered his question???

How is this a scumtell?
It's easy to label someone's behavior (e.g. "overreaction") without really explicitly calling it scummy. It's just sphagetti flinging and it's quite scummy.

ditto what Zdenek said

UNVOTE: Joystick

VOTE: Antihero

[nameloc1986]

^^^BTW post #81 that I ditto

[curiouskarmadog]

nameloc brings up decent points....

you feel like antihero is scummier than joystick and shotty?

[nameloc1986]

nameloc brings up decent points....

you feel like antihero is scummier than joystick and shotty?

ATM yes

[ooBAZZoo]

@everyone - Just to throw a question into the mix:
Do you think your read of a player should take into account their experience?

[andrew94]

nameloc jumps all over the place. ckd apparently misreads and leavs his vote there for the whole day.


@oobazzoo what do u mean

[Dry-fit]

Another RQ: Since I feel this may be an issue this game, what is everybody's stance on policy lynching?

I'm not for it. If there's a player you have even the tiniest bit of suspicion of that 's better than a policy lynch. And a situation where it's impossible to get any kind of read at all is hard to imagine. Which player(s) do you suspect might be likely to be policy lynched?

@Everybody: So far shotty and Joystick have been the bandwagons of choice. If you had to lynch one of these two NOW, which one would you choose and why?

Maybe shotty. He's done a couple things that are slightly scummy. Pretty much all of joystick's posts have been theoretical up to this point.

Anywho, I really don't want to get carried away with mindless squabbles during RVS. I'm gonna wait for others to post.

Why not? Isn't that how we get out of rvs?

I still wouldn't. There's no evidence. I really don't support a lynch if there's little to no evidence.

Would you prefer no lynch to a random lynch?

@everyone - Just to throw a question into the mix:
Do you think your read of a player should take into account their experience?

Definitely.

when i looked at your post 'minority' i thought instantly to 'uninformed minority' aka town, therefore i felt you were trying too hard to be town

I find this hard to believe. If scum made such an obvious blunder as that, I would carefully read what they said to confirm that it was a slip, which it clearly wasn't. This seems like scum lazily pretending to scumhunt.

Unvote. Vote: andrew94