Open 250 - Pie E7 Mark II

[curiouskarmadog]

In short, running people up to lynch -1 without being serious about lynching them is scuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummy.

When I put curiouskarmadog at L-1, I was serious. What I had expected was curiouskarmadog answering the questions posed to him,

woah...

what questions were posed to me?

Sorry about that. Time isn't working in my favor right now.

sottyrulez and VP Baltar back-and-forth nearly gave me a headache. I'm getting town vibes from both of them. I probably should go back and read the previous Open 250, though.

vote SaintKerigan

fucking joking..

Why did you feel the need to include the second line? It's not like we haven't seen that particular vote before.

my god...

"...you're like a trained ape"? /shot

Okay, the real question is why you posted this. It contributed nothing to the conversation between SaintKerrigan, sottyrulez, and VP Baltar. You weren't in danger of receiving a prod, so this wasn't a prod dodger. "My God" isn't any form of analysis. So... why?

vi is quite obviously town this game...I got your meta bud

VP Baltar is correct in this regard; you pegged Vi as town on practically nothing. I call buddying.

just getting the game started,

How to kick off Day 1:

1. Ignore the real meat of the game
2. Find an inactive player who has not posted on-site since confirming
3. Vote him/her
4. ???
5.

PROFIT!

GET LYNCHED

VOTE: curiouskarmadog L-1

The game started before it even began. There was no need to try to "get the game started." That reads as an attempt to both distract the town from an informative interaction and to completely ignore contributing your own opinion. There's no excuse to ignore it when you have meta on sottyrulez and VP Baltar from the first game, and you did not hesitate to use meta on Vi on significantly smaller grounds.

Your attempt to buddy up to Vi is so blatant that it's causing some dissonance. On the one hand, we have your Best Mafia Performance Scummy; on the other hand, we have this painfully obvious move. Something's up. I don't like the smell of it, either. Explain your read on Vi.

Need moar from SaintKerrigan and nopointinactingup. Two completely null slots ATM.

the questions you actually posed to me, I did not answer...as a matter of fact, i actually called your other points crap.

[VP Baltar]

@Vi (tempban LOL) - so just for the record, you think that running players up to a claim and then just willy nilly abandoning it is good play? In this setup? I'm as wary of a sottyrulez make up as you are, but they're on the correct side of the issue in this instance and you/Equinox are most definitely not. I will be quite interested to see where your vote does go with your next post.

[Vi]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

I didn't read anything about Equinox L-1ing ckd and demanding a claim (in fact Equinox seemed dismally surprised at the claim). I skimmed like that whole page and posted in five minutes, and don't have the time NOW to reread (maybe; I have to see if I need to leave for school now or not). So etc.

[VP Baltar]

So you are either agreeing with me (and find me scummy for it) or you want to make sure the scum have a fair shot... While I agree that this setup is probably town favoring (waits for Zach to disagree), I don't think we should be helping balance it for the scum.

I'm not saying Equinox demanded the claim from ckd. However, s/he should have considered that was a possibility of putting a player at L-1. If ckd is town, it was certainly a dumb move to claim without being prompted, but it's also dumb to run someone up to that region if you aren't all that serious about it. Add to that the sudden readjustment of ckd from top scum suspect to high on the town list and I have to ask serious questions if the vote was genuine in the first place. Mind you, the change in heart is all over ckd's "tone," which is a completely subjective thing that the rest of the town can't even really evaluate it. If Equinox is town, then s/he is essentially handing the game on a platter to the scum by playing so erratically. I would like you to explain how any of this is good for town.

@Equinox - does ckd's tone nullify your other points that you claim he didn't answer and he claims are so BS he doesn't intend to answer?

[Vi]

All right, I'm here so I can post.

The L-1 attack on Equinox doesn't make sense. I mean, I L-1'd St.K in the previous game and didn't expect a claim (and St.K rightfully didn't give one).
I'm not really so sold on Eek! the Nox's reasons for voting ckd so much though. The meta argument is just another way of saying that he sidestepped VPB vs. STR. Appealing to Scummies is automatic credibility loss, although I didn't consider that ckd could be buddying to me (but then that's the point of buddying).

I don't agree with Equinox that St.K is null at this point; I have a small Town read in that direction.

For as much bad as there is in ckd's claimpost, he does raise a good point in Equinox evidently thinking I'm Town. It's not explicitly stated anywhere and I'm sure semantically Equinox could make an argument that ckd buddying to me doesn't imply that I'm necessarily Town if ckd is scum, but I'm preeeeetty sure that was the meaning there.

ckd went to great lengths to WIFOM his claim up, and did a good job of it. I think it's more likely that ckd is Town though, although that was a harder decision to make than it had to be.

The argument that Equinox backed down after a claim is absolutely worthless for the following reasons.
*EQUINOX DIDN'T ASK FOR ONE. I've had a bit of a rush of pointing out obvious things these days and it's bringing me into the SCREAMING DEATH CLUB in spite of me actually hating that style of play, but THIS IS ON THE PAGE.
**Side note: Being at L-1 doesn't mean you need to claim immediately. With a player list like this, you should expect this to be common knowledge. With a player list like this you should be able to put people at L-1 and not have people do amazingly stupid things. Is this wishful thinking from me? Evidently,

yes!

a;sfjksdfklsdf
*If you believe a claim, you should unvote. Why stick with voting Town?
*Equinox didn't actually unvote right after the claim. She stuck with it for a post.

So yes, VPB's vote on Equinox is not up to snuff, although I'm fine with the second reason about the original vote post.

sottyrulez voting Equinox makes me RAGE but everything else after it looks so different from how they posted in the previous game that it's hard for me to call it scummy.

You don't get to tell us to get over ourselves and then say you're unsettled when we actually do. This leaves me thinking that you wanted to play voice of reason and that you actually wanted us to keep fighting to the death for the next 10 pages.

VP is town btw. He's dead on in pointing out the scum benefit to rolefishing in placing a lynch -1 vote in the situation that Equinox did, and it was something he could have easily done himself if he was scum. It's ridiculous that you're trying to make him out to look scummy for this when it's quite clear it's the most pro-town thing he has done all game.

I asked for you to stop a ways before you actually did. Maybe it's because I didn't think either of you were scum in the first place, but the whole argument seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me and the ending doesn't seem organic. All of the stuff you posted afterward is stuff that occurred after you flopped on him.

@Vi (tempban LOL) - so just for the record, you think that running players up to a claim and then just willy nilly abandoning it is good play? In this setup?

This is misrepresenting what I said SO MUCH. THERE IS NOTHING IN EQUIyou know why don't you just read it earlier in my post; it's in all caps there too and I'm fairly positive I've said it before.

So you are either agreeing with me (and find me scummy for it) or you want to make sure the scum have a fair shot... While I agree that this setup is probably town favoring (waits for Zach to disagree), I don't think we should be helping balance it for the scum.

Oh yes I would much rather have a fair figh

are you seriously trying to say I'm sporting here?

--stuff I've already answered--
If Equinox is town, then s/he is essentially handing the game on a platter to the scum by playing so erratically. I would like you to explain how any of this is good for town.

If Equinox is Town, then while prompting a claim wouldn't be good for Town

she's still Town

.

I don't have a problem with clearing based on ckd's tone as a reason, objectively speaking. Subjectively speaking I don't buy it so much myself, but I can see how Equinox could.

----

Conclusion.
I'm not voting Equinox. Get over yourself.
I'm not voting sottyrulez, admittedly based largely on "tone".
I would vote VP Baltar but I have the sneaking suspicion that he's actually being serious.

It's not out of the question that all of the above are Town. The only way that both scum are in this group is if it's sottyrulez+VP Baltar but I don't think that's a possibility worth pursuing at this juncture.

So IMO I have two options.
*Keep my vote on ckd and call for a damage control lynch.
*Vote for someone I think is scum - if it doesn't work, Town is in an even worse position than before; if it does work I think it cancels out the bad of the premature claim (I never finished the analysis but I got far enough to see that scum

really

don't want to get lynched D1).

I'll bet on the second option.

Unvote: curiouskarmadog

Vote: nopointactingup

(L-2)
Yes I know nonparticipant vote blah blah but right now I have Townish vibes from most everyone else.

[sottyrulez]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

It is not town's job to give the scum a fair chance.

Scummy.

The argument that Equinox backed down after a claim is absolutely worthless for the following reasons.
*EQUINOX DIDN'T ASK FOR ONE. I've had a bit of a rush of pointing out obvious things these days and it's bringing me into the SCREAMING DEATH CLUB in spite of me actually hating that style of play, but THIS IS ON THE PAGE.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer. If Equinox didn't want one, she shouldn't have voted for CKD. End of story.

*If you believe a claim, you should unvote. Why stick with voting Town?

This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason,

NONE

to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.

Equinox votes for CKD, this means she finds things he does scummy.
CKD claims VT
Equinox unvotes because of

tone

? Really? Horrible, horrible, horrible.

*Equinox didn't actually unvote right after the claim. She stuck with it for a post.

…..So?

No, I am not unvoting until you give me what I want. You haven't done that yet.

This is also awful. She unvotes in the very next post. SHE IS ALREADY LOOKING FOR AN EASY OUT ONCE CKD CLAIMS!

Seriously.

[Vi]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

It is not town's job to give the scum a fair chance.

Scummy.

I was going to just say to your whole post that my opinion has already been given on everything you said, but this is so stupid that I have to call you out for being stupid. Sorry*.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer. If Equinox didn't want one, she shouldn't have voted for CKD. End of story.

Wait, so everyone on this site to include a "mouthwatering" elite player list is also stupid? Good to know.

This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.

Without taking the setup into account, I disagree and always have.
In this particular setup, you actually have a point for reasons mentioned before.

Next question. If there is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim, why are we not lynching (more specifically, you not voting) ckd? Suppose you're wrong about Equinox and we lynch her. Now we have a dead Townie of some kind AND a claimed Vanilla lying around, and we're in an even worse situation. At least with lynching ckd we don't have any more claims. With that in mind, face it, you didn't "pretty much HAVE to vote Equinox" at all.

Yes I know this flies completely in the face of my own vote, but then I'm using your premises for this question, not mine.

Actually let's do this.

Unvote: nopointactingup
Vote: sottyrulez

(L-3)

You're reaching for ways to accuse me at this point, especially with that first point.

Equinox unvotes because of tone? Really? Horrible, horrible, horrible.

This is almost ALWAYS the reason people unvote VT claims. Typical, typical, typical.

*this word is not actually meaningful

[Equinox]

I have only 5-10 minutes to say stuff, so... more later.

Add to that the sudden readjustment of ckd from top scum suspect to high on the town list and I have to ask serious questions if the vote was genuine in the first place.

I can see how that looks bad. It's how I constructed the spectrum: nopointinactingup and SaintKerrigan are null slots, Vi is a null-slightly-town slot... and we have CKD. I'm betting my own lynch CKD is town. Wouldn't make sense if I moved him down only a notch or two.

@Equinox - does ckd's tone nullify your other points that you claim he didn't answer and he claims are so BS he doesn't intend to answer?

Apparently, yes, or else I wouldn't have unvoted him.

Vi white-knighting me is O_O. Giving me flashbacks to sottyrulez's accusation of "voice of reason" earlier.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer.

If someone requested a hammer on CKD, would I have unvoted...? Hmm. I don't know. What I do know is I was taught that people don't claim when they're at L-1 until someone asks for it. It's the expected play. Therefore, I expected responses from CKD at L-1, not a claim. Poor expectation? Probably. Does it make me scum?

No.

This is also awful. She unvotes in the very next post. SHE IS ALREADY LOOKING FOR AN EASY OUT ONCE CKD CLAIMS!

Incorrect. curiouskarmadog gave me what I wanted after I posted that, which was an explanation to his read of Vi and why he didn't comment on you and VP Baltar. He did that in post 92 to my satisfaction, so I unvoted. Context, please, not just isolation reading... You'd know that, though.

Shoot. I'm out of time. See you in a few hours.

[Vi]

Vi white-knighting me is O_O. Giving me flashbacks to sottyrulez's accusation of "voice of reason" earlier.

I defend who I believe is right. I think you'll also find that I change my mind quickly and without warning.

[sottyrulez]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

It is not town's job to give the scum a fair chance.

Scummy.

I was going to just say to your whole post that my opinion has already been given on everything you said, but this is so stupid that I have to call you out for being stupid. Sorry*.

Uh no.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer. If Equinox didn't want one, she shouldn't have voted for CKD. End of story.

Wait, so everyone on this site to include a "mouthwatering" elite player list is also stupid? Good to know.

Equinox is not stupid. That is the point.

Our position was that she was employing a tactic to

rolefish

, not making a "mistake."

She's played in many games and claiming is the freaking standard after lynch -1 in most mafia games. I'm certain Equinox is aware of that.

This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.

Without taking the setup into account, I disagree and always have.
In this particular setup, you actually have a point for reasons mentioned before.

Yet here we are eh?

Next question. If there is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim, why are we not lynching (more specifically, you not voting) ckd? Suppose you're wrong about Equinox and we lynch her. Now we have a dead Townie of some kind AND a claimed Vanilla lying around, and we're in an even worse situation. At least with lynching ckd we don't have any more claims. With that in mind, face it, you didn't "pretty much HAVE to vote Equinox" at all.

We're not lynching/voting CKD because the wagon died. Equinox played a large role in that, you know this. We had absolutely no intention of unvoting CKD before that. Equinox played a significant role in killing the bandwagon and she's scummy for it.

We are not voting for anyone other that CKD or Equinox. Yes it will be disastrous if both CKD and Equinox turn out to be town, but right now we think Equinox has a higher chance of being scum than CKD.

It comes down to, should we make a strategic move or a move that most likely catches scum? In this situation it is not an easy choice at all. If we all come together and decide to lynch CKD, then we will switch votes and do it.

Yes I know this flies completely in the face of my own vote, but then I'm using your premises for this question, not mine.

Actually let's do this.

Unvote: nopointactingup
Vote: sottyrulez

(L-3)

You're reaching for ways to accuse me at this point, especially with that first point.

This is laughable. You are defending the scummiest player in the thread, of course you are going to look bad as a result. You could try scum hunting, it might help. Instead you are defending Equinox for what exactly? It seems like you agreed her unvote was bad and yet she's town?

Now you OMGUS us over what you seem to be saying is playstyle differences. We would lynch a VT without hesitation and you wouldn't.

How does that make us scum?

Equinox unvotes because of tone? Really? Horrible, horrible, horrible.

This is almost ALWAYS the reason people unvote VT claims. Typical, typical, typical.

The way she said it doesn't ring genuine. At all.

[Equinox]

A quick post to respond and say some stuff that ran through my mind during a meeting. >_>;

Our position was that she was employing a tactic to rolefish, not making a "mistake."

She's played in

many games

and claiming is the freaking standard after lynch -1 in most mafia games. I'm certain Equinox is aware of that.

Funny... the more games I play, the scummier I seem to get. Experience ain't helping me.

That said. Yes, I am aware, as I have stated in 107, that claiming at L-1 is standard...

once someone has called for it

. The better practice is to have someone not on the bandwagon do that, but we've all seen the various L-1 circumstances where people have claimed when they shouldn't have. It doesn't change the fact that I walked in with an expectation that curiouskarmadog was not going to claim until someone asked him to. After all, this isn't a newbie game, and I argue that my expectation was a fair one given the player list.

The way she said it doesn't ring genuine. At all.

Because of my tone, or because of my actions? You pushed this case on what appears to be an isolation read of me -- you missed the fact that I unvoted curiouskarmadog after he gave me what I wanted. So, at best, your case is missing context, which makes this point you made here moot.

---

curiouskarmadog: You went on defensive mode on page 4, which is understandable, but as of post 100, you've gone back to "not ruffling feathers" except to tell me that the case I made on you was full of it. What are your stances? Getting attacked shouldn't preclude you from continuing to hunt scum... but you knew that.

sottyrulez: Would I be correct in assuming that today's posts were made by Sotty7?

Vi: Why mention that you change your mind "quickly and without warning"? Are you setting up 180s? Also... you stated in 104 that you didn't agree with my reason for voting CKD, and evidently you agree with my reason for unvoting CKD; however, your conclusion is that I'm town. Why?

For the record, I agree with sottyrulez that I'm the better lynch if, by the end of the day, it's still between me and CKD (just not for the same reason), but that is a terrible dichotomy they're presenting, mainly because I firmly believe/know that neither of those bandwagons are on mafia.

[VP Baltar]

No, my wall is bigger! Nah-uh, mine is!

(real post coming when I muster the will to read all this)

[SaintKerrigan]

Hopefully short V/LA due to sickness.

Believe me, I hate this as much as you do.

[Vi]

sotty's points are all garbage that I've swatted down already. But this is the best part.

We would lynch a VT without hesitation and you wouldn't.

How does that make us scum?

You're not lynching a VT without hesitation

right now

. In fact, it's like you

backed down

from a VT claim instead of pushing it like "welp, end of day right there". HMM.

Oh and I'm clearly not scumhunting because I'm not agreeing with sottyrulez. After all, scumhunting would instead be voting Equinox or ckd because they said so or because lolretardedE7setup respectively. Yeah, perfect sense.

Vi: Why mention that you change your mind "quickly and without warning"? Are you setting up 180s?

It's. How. I. Play. (as Town) And you didn't know that before.

Also... you stated in 104 that you didn't agree with my reason for voting CKD, and evidently you agree with my reason for unvoting CKD; however, your conclusion is that I'm town. Why?

Bad logic != scum. (I would know )

I'm seriously having a cow right now about this game.

[sottyrulez]

sotty's points are all garbage that I've swatted down already. But this is the best part.

We would lynch a VT without hesitation and you wouldn't.

How does that make us scum?

You're not lynching a VT without hesitation

right now

. In fact, it's like you

backed down

from a VT claim instead of pushing it like "welp, end of day right there". HMM.

COMPLETELY IGNORED CRUCIAL PARTS OF POST.

lol... if you want to drop the act Vi, that would just be awesome.

[jasonT1981]

Vote count 3 - Day 1

nopoint 1 - CKD,
curiouskarmadog 1 - , VP Baltar
Equinox 1 - Sotty
Sottyrulez 1 - Vi

Nopoint will be prodded tomorrow morning

[Vi]

COMPLETELY IGNORED CRUCIAL PARTS OF POST.

Would you rather I go down the line and say that your accusation based on funny wording of what happens with claims is still bad the second time around, that I think it's ludicrous to think that Equinox necessarily tried to force a claim from ckd (and if she was, why isn't she voting someone else to repeat the cycle?), and I have to thank you for making me look again at this--

We're not lynching/voting CKD because the wagon died. Equinox played a large role in that, you know this. We had absolutely no intention of unvoting CKD before that. Equinox played a significant role in killing the bandwagon and she's scummy for it.

We are not voting for anyone other that CKD or Equinox. Yes it will be disastrous if both CKD and Equinox turn out to be town,

but right now we think Equinox has a higher chance of being scum than CKD.

It comes down to, should we make a strategic move or a move that most likely catches scum? In this situation it is not an easy choice at all. If we all come together and decide to lynch CKD, then we will switch votes and do it.

Penn and Teller do not approve of the bolded! Lynching ckd isn't a matter of whether he's scum, it's a matter of preventing further claims! I mean really I could see your point if your reason for voting Equinox wasn't trash, but that's not the case.

Or maybe it's how I'm allegedly scummy for defending someone you think is scummy when I know you know I do that rather frequently, or mislabeling my vote for you, or how your attack on Equinox unvoting ckd seems to be based on "tone".

---

NEW PLAN.
I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog. What I have in mind will probably not work unless we all agree that we are Town and are willing to trust each other. You're welcome to refuse and explain why if you're not comfortable with it, but I wouldn't ask you to consider it without some worthwhile reason.

[sottyrulez]

sottyrulez: Would I be correct in assuming that today's posts were made by Sotty7?

Well you are sorta right.

We have been working together on all of todays posts so far in a QT. Zach has been at work and throwing ideas around and I have been editing and composing them into posts that he also edits and so on until we are both happy that the points we want have been inculded. Technically I have been the one pressing submit, but today has been a more of a combined effort.

Why does it matter?

In other news Vi continues to make us

[jasonT1981]

Mod Note: No Point is on emergancy V/LA and should be back within a few days

[Vi]

In other news Vi continues to make us

In the unlikely event that you're Town in this game, I know what my next avvy is going to be.

In unrelated news this thread needs more Druglord Baltar.

[VP Baltar]

The druglord cometh. Had to go grocery shopping for my minions this morning. Please hold for full reply.

[VP Baltar]

The argument that Equinox backed down after a claim is absolutely worthless for the following reasons.
*EQUINOX DIDN'T ASK FOR ONE. I've had a bit of a rush of pointing out obvious things these days and it's bringing me into the SCREAMING DEATH CLUB in spite of me actually hating that style of play, but THIS IS ON THE PAGE.

While I agree that ckd really should not have claimed in that situation if he's town, that is a risk of putting someone at L-1. Town and scum players alike freak out at pressure and the perception that they are going to be lynched. Now, the argument could be made that ckd knows better than this and that'd be some amount of support for thinking his claim scummy. However, we've seen that ckd doesn't exactly follow established site meta anyhow, so meh. The fact remains that Equinox felt ckd was scummy enough to push him to the brink even if she didn't ask. If she saw him that scummy that early, I personally don't expect that kind of pressure to whamo disappear so quickly.

*If you believe a claim, you should unvote. Why stick with voting Town?

I agree with you. Lynching town, even in a massclaim centered setup like this one, isn't better than lynching scum. The question is if Equinox is being genuine in her belief of the claim. I'm not entirely sold.

*Equinox didn't actually unvote right after the claim. She stuck with it for a post.

Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points. She said herself her points were trumped by his tone. I'm not saying that's not possible, just not something I'm going to take on scout's honor.

This is misrepresenting what I said SO MUCH. THERE IS NOTHING IN EQUIyou know why don't you just read it earlier in my post; it's in all caps there too and I'm fairly positive I've said it before.

I don't feel it was misrepresenting what you originally said about it. Which was:

Iiiiii'm not buying this actually.

Pretty ambiguous. If you're talking about a different post, you're going to have to quote it for me because that's the line I was referring to.

If Equinox is Town, then while prompting a claim wouldn't be good for Town she's still Town.

That was more of me just ranting that it's really bad play as town in this setup. If I actually get the feeling Equinox is town, I'm not going to want to lynch her today obviously. I hope you aren't implying that I would, as that is seriously reaching

This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.

This actually sounds more weak sauce than what you're arguing for. Yes it improves the scum's chances of stopping PRs tonight, but I don't think there is a net gain by lynching someone you think is town. You should try to lynch scum no matter what the setup is. I mean, look at last game. PRs played essentially no part, but I don't think the town was at an inherent disadvantage on Day 2.

Next question. If there is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim, why are we not lynching (more specifically, you not voting) ckd? Suppose you're wrong about Equinox and we lynch her. Now we have a dead Townie of some kind AND a claimed Vanilla lying around, and we're in an even worse situation. At least with lynching ckd we don't have any more claims. With that in mind, face it, you didn't "pretty much HAVE to vote Equinox" at all.

I actually agree with Vi here. If your stance is never unvote, then you should have never unvoted. Then again, sottyrulez could have been over indulgent in the hyperbole too.

I'm betting my own lynch CKD is town. Wouldn't make sense if I moved him down only a notch or two.

Why would you bet your own lynch? Are you unsure if you're town? And moving beyond the hyperbole of THAT statement, why isn't he even higher if you're that confident in him being town. I really am trying to understand your reasoning here, but it's not coming across as clear to me.

What I do know is I was taught that people don't claim when they're at L-1 until someone asks for it. It's the expected play.

Do you recall who taught you this? That might help me out some here.

We're not lynching/voting CKD because the wagon died. Equinox played a large role in that, you know this. We had absolutely no intention of unvoting CKD before that. Equinox played a significant role in killing the bandwagon and she's scummy for it.

Well, in fairness, I think your unvote was much more crucial to the demise of the wagon. He was still at L-2, yeah? If you felt so passionately about him needing to be lynched, I would think you would have argued for it and explained why it was necessary.

We are not voting for anyone other that CKD or Equinox. Yes it will be disastrous if both CKD and Equinox turn out to be town, but right now we think Equinox has a higher chance of being scum than CKD.

And then this basically sounds in contradiction of always lynch VT in E7. You're either scumhunting or playing strategy. I'm happy to have support for my Equinox wagon, but I don't like your cognitive dissonance at all. You really need to pick a side of your own argument.

curiouskarmadog: You went on defensive mode on page 4, which is understandable, but as of post 100, you've gone back to "not ruffling feathers" except to tell me that the case I made on you was full of it. What are your stances? Getting attacked shouldn't preclude you from continuing to hunt scum... but you knew that.

I support this motion. I still believe ckd is town, but playing the mute on current events is starting to grind my gears.

For the record, I agree with sottyrulez that I'm the better lynch if, by the end of the day, it's still between me and CKD (just not for the same reason), but that is a terrible dichotomy they're presenting, mainly because I firmly believe/know that neither of those bandwagons are on mafia.

Speaking of gear grinding...I ask again why in the heck you would want to be lynched over someone else if you know you're town? I thought you were just being dramatic before, but apparently you believe this? Unless you have insight into who has what role (in which case you could just tell us who the scum are and save us the time), you should never want yourself lynched. Even if you're 99% sure on ckd (which I doubt your read is that strong over tone) there is still a 1% difference between that and your confidence in your own role. Correct? Then again AtE and all that.

I'm seriously having a cow right now about this game.

Would you say you're moo-derately enraged?

I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.

I feel so betrayed. But seriously, AwesomeTownBloc's work much better when you have solid reads. Are you quite confident in your reads already? If not, your eagerness to chain yourself to people kinda bugs me.


Npau and SK being gone kind of puts a wrench in things. This thread is getting a little incestuous and I would like some other opinions floating around. Ckd, you're going to be the next best thing. Please get in here and comment with some decent thoughts.

tl;dr

My wall is bigger than yours. And it brings all the boys to the yard.............wait....

[Vi]

My wallpost brings all the boys to the yard

but my wallpost is better than yours.
On a related note, I really

didn't

need the mental picture of us being incestuous. >_>

Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points. She said herself her points were trumped by his tone. I'm not saying that's not possible, just not something I'm going to take on scout's honor.

It's the sort of thing I would do. Granted, I act psychotic, but still.

Would you say you're moo-derately enraged?

Yes actually. Luckily (or unluckily) moo-derately is the highest setting I get to on the RAGE meter, or at least it's the highest one I know of.

I feel so betrayed. But seriously, AwesomeTownBloc's work much better when you have solid reads. Are you quite confident in your reads already? If not, your eagerness to chain yourself to people kinda bugs me.

In a sense, yes, I'm quite confident in my reads. I'm fairly positive Equinox is Town, and right now I'm willing to buy that ckd is the same kind of Townie he was last game.

I know I've seen ckd around recently though.

[Equinox]

Get well soon, SaintKerrigan!

I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.

A semi-repeat of VP Baltar's question but going in a different direction: Are you more confident in your reads of CKD and me than, say, VP Baltar? Why?

And moving beyond the hyperbole of THAT statement, why isn't he even higher if you're that confident in him being town.

Because I was even more confident in my read of you and sottyrulez. The "betting my own lynch" statement ties to the below point.

Speaking of gear grinding...I ask again why in the heck you would want to be lynched over someone else if you know you're town?

Good question. My thought process at the time was if we lynched CKD as sottyrulez suggested previously, then we'd be handing over the game to scum as we've just set up their two mislynches. (This, of course, is based on my belief that CKD is town.) I figured that if, after arguing back and forth we were still on the CKD-or-Equinox dichotomy, it'd be better if we didn't save me for Day 2.

But then you bring up the point where I'm not as confident of CKD as I am of me... which makes me wonder if I was rational. Eh. >_> I guess we'll see at the end of the day. Definitely should hear from CKD first.

Do you recall who taught you this? That might help me out some here.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was in one of my earlier newbie games. I'll go track it down.

Why does it matter?

Curiosity. Sounded like Sotty7 posting, rather than Zachrulez.

Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points.

Actually, he did. I wanted to know why he didn't comment on sottyrulez-VP Baltar, and he said he didn't comment because he felt it was noise. (Now that I think about it, that's... a pretty odd thing to say. I'm gonna go do this other thing first and go back to that post.) I then wanted to know why he buddied up to Vi, and he explained that it was a gambit. I thought that + tone was satisfactory enough.

[Vi]

I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.

A semi-repeat of VP Baltar's question but going in a different direction: Are you more confident in your reads of CKD and me than, say, VP Baltar? Why?

Given where VPB and sottyrulez were at the time I asked that question, yes. After VPB's last post... probably. I didn't expect VP Baltar to disagree with sottyrulez given that they were previously on the same ridiculous stance.

What are your reads on your incestuous brothers and sisters so far?