Mini 1073: Autumn Mafia - Game Over!

[Equinox]

Sorry, all. Got unexpectedly busy.

V/LA until November 13

; I don't think I owe a catch-up here.

[Equinox]

...man, I have some awful timing. That was a hammer. This V/LA won't affect this game at all. Let me get some thoughts together.

If Xine's town as she claims, well, we just got boned. Doubtful, though.

If not:

I agree with Llamarble here that the best option for the second MyLo is to No Lynch, but that is one situation where I definitely would advocate for getting some discussion done before ending the day. I'm not in a good position right now to examine Llamarble's points more closely... I hope it's not a huge problem if I say I'll have in-depth stuff once my V/LA is over.

I guess the kissing is done more fiercely now and with tires.

I lol'd at this line.

[AGar]

Mod scene coming in a few hours

[AGar]

The town grew tired of waiting, becoming more impatient by the minute. Things were getting tense, though the woman under suspicion didn't seem moved.

"She's a cold-hearted killer, that's why she's so calm!" one shouted.

"Let's get rid of her, make more progress. Maybe we can finally put an end to this." another softly spoke.

Slowly, four of the remaining six townsfolk gathered around her, a hatred in their eyes unlike any other. They wanted their town clean, and they wanted it to happen now.

A swift blow to the side of the head knocked her unconscious, while they fashioned up a new noose. They tied it up next to the body they hung yesterday, where they had triumphed over one scumbag, preparing to celebrate again.

Just before the chair was kicked out, one of the men looked at her, glaring.

"I hope they show no mercy on your soul," he said.

Swiftly, the ground was pulled out from underneath her feet. Unlike yesterday, there was no struggle, just a quick snap as the rope pulled taut and her body fell limp.

Another woman cautiously stepped up to the body, and began rummaging through her pockets. All she found was a wallet and a shopping list. Just another simple citizen, caught in the madness that went on.

"W-w-what does this mean? What do we-"

A gunshot rang out, cutting her off midsentence, one man's body falling to the ground, an unloaded pistol clattering out of his pocket. Another shot rang out, and another man fell to the dirt, empty pockets and all.

The woman's horror turned to glee as she and the gunman turned on the last standing citizen.

"How... how could you?" he stammered.

"Simple. Like this!" she shouted as she lunged at him with a sharpened shard of glass.

She stabbed him once, piercing his aorta and stood over him as he struggled.

She turned to her partner, and smiled sickly.

"We're done here. It's time to move on."

Xine, Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 3

Llamarble, 1-Shot Town Vigilante, Endgamed

ICEninja, Vanilla Townie, Endgamed

Netopalis, Vanilla Townie, Endgamed

The mafia team of

Equinox

,

Me=Weird

and

Chesskid3

win!

Final Day 3 Votecount

ICEninja (0)

-

Llamarble (0)

-

Me=Weird (0)

-

Netopalis (0)

-

Equinox (0)

-

Xine (4)

- ICEninja, Equinox, Me=Weird, Llamarble

Not Voting (2)

- Netopalis, Xine

[AGar]

Setup & Night Actions

Setup:

The Mafia

2 Mafia Goons - Oso & Me=Weird
1 Mafia Godfather (Investigation Immune) - Equinox (replacing Wingless)

The Town

6 Vanilla Townies - Cruelty, ICEninja, Netlava, PerArdua, Shattered Viewpoint, Xine
1 Cop (Sane) - FeRnAnDo
1 Jailkeeper - Zinive
1 1-shot Vigilante - Llamarble

Role PMs:

Spoiler: Contained

Vanilla Townie PM (x6) - Cruelty, ICEninja, Netlava, PerArdua, Shattered Viewpoint, Xine

Dear XXXX,

You are a

Vanilla Townie

. You only have your voice and your vote this game. The game thread is here, and you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

Mafia Goon PM (x2) - Me=Weird, Oso

Dear XXXX,

You are a

Mafia Goon

with your partners YYYY (who is also a

Mafia Goon

) and ZZZZ (who is the

Mafia Godfather

. Each night, your mafia faction may submit the name of one player to be killed, and who will carry out the kill. You may communicated with your fellow mafia teammates here in this QuickTopic provided for you. You win when the mafia controls the majority of the town, or nothing can prevent the same. The game thread is here

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

Mafia Godfather PM (x1) - Equinox

Dear XXXX,

You are the

Mafia Godfather

with your partners YYYY and ZZZZ (who are

Mafia Goons

). Each night, you and your partners may submit the name of one player to be killed, and who will carry out the kill. Additionally, you will show up as innocent to any checks against your alignment. You may communicated with your fellow mafia teammates here in this QuickTopic provided for you. You win when the mafia controls the majority of the town, or nothing can prevent the same. The game thread is here

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

1-Shot Vigilante PM (x1) - Llamarble

Dear XXXX,

You are a

Town 1-Shot Vigilante

. One night you may submit a player who you would like to shoot. Once you submit your shot, your kill is relinquished and you will be like every other

Vanilla Townie

, and only have your voice and your vote. The game thread is here. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

Jailkeeper PM (x1) - Zivine

Dear XXXX,

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

. Each night you may select a player to jail. That player will be protected from any attempts on his or her life, but the player will not be able to carry out any night actions they may have. You also may post and vote. The game thread is here. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

Cop PM (x1) - FeRnAnDo

Dear XXXX,

You are a

Town Cop

. Each night you may submit one player to investigate, and you will receive a PM in return telling you of their alignment. The game thread is here. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game will begin when 10 of 12 players have confirmed via PM.

Please confirm you have read your PM by PMing your role back to me.

---

Night Actions

Night 1

Zinive

jails

ICEninja

Llamarble

shoots

Shattered Viewpoint

Me=Weird

kills

Zinive

Night 2

Me=Weird

kills

Antihero

[Antihero]

It is actually fortuitous in my eyes that Anti was the one who died.

I too am happy to see Antihero gone.

I have never seen so much hate for a dead townie. And it's not even like I fake claimed or did anything crazy, either.

May we see the QT, please?

Mod ninja about the QT.

Agar, what do you think I did wrong?

[Antihero]

Oh, the QT links don't work. May we still see them, please?

[AGar]

Mod Notes

- Town was severely hurt when both PRs were essentially outted on D1. While I don't think the setup design relied on PRs for town success, the two biggest that I included were killed before they could be used to any benefit and

- I can't honestly say if Fernando ever actually picked up his prod prior to his lynch, unfortunately, because I BCCed him and Shattered Viewpoint on that.

- I told all of my reviewers I was using BaM. For some reason, to me that meant I had posted in the queue that I was using BaM. I apologize for not giving the heads up.

- The town in itself was very apathetic, which was it's downfall after D1. By D3, it seemed as if interest had completely died off, which is usually the opposite of what I see with short deadlines.

- I'm surprised that the town lynched on D2. It's been discussed in the past, especially when it brings D3 to MYLO/LYLO, to actually no lynch and just suffer the modkill on that day.

- Me=Weird and Equinox both played really well. I was seriously impressed by their play here, avoiding any real suspicion on them at all.

[AGar]

I'll let Me=Weird/Equinox/Chesskid decide if they want the QT link posted.

As for what you did wrong, I don't think anything, really. You replaced into a slot that hadn't been clearly pro-town, and I think people had just gained a suspicion of you. When a suspicion dies, it's often a relief.

[Antihero]

As for what you did wrong, I don't think anything, really. You replaced into a slot that hadn't been clearly pro-town, and I think people had just gained a suspicion of you. When a suspicion dies, it's often a relief.

Shouldn't me calling Oso out day 2 have pretty much cleared me?

Did you all seriously think that was a bus? If so, you need to learn how bussing works. The scum don't kill off two major power roles and go into MYLO going "OMG GAIZ, WERE GETTING PWNED, WE NEED TO BUUUSSSSSSS!"

[Ythill]

You guys are always mislynching my wife.

Can't blame you this time. I thought Xine was scum too.

[Equinox]

Quick comments:

1. I'm fine with posting the QuickTopic if Me=Weird and Oso are okay with it; chesskid3 didn't post in there.
2. Netopalis, since you're the one who caught me in the end: Do you have any words on how I can improve? (Everyone else, you're welcome to answer this as well.)
   
3. Shattered Viewpoint, was your accusation of procrastination a general scum tell or an Equinox-specific scum tell?
4. I'm interested in hearing the town's side regarding this particular MyLo we were in. Would you have lynched, and would you have called for a mass-claim as I did?

I really have nothing to say that could be convincing, other then to repeat my claim. I would like to see the game not end today, so I would hope to not be lynched.

The single most convincing thing that would back up a vanilla townie claim is scum hunting. You spent almost all of your time defending on Day 3, which hurt your chances of surviving; your case on Day 2 was torn apart when you missed answering my and Antihero's concerns about your vote analysis. You also tended toward posting IoA-type posts on Day 1, which made it look like you weren't contributing. If you can't post analysis, be upfront and say you can't.

[Me=Weird]

Yes!! Good job, Equinox.
Antihero, I don't think it was anything you did. I think it was more that cruelty was bad. And no, calling Oso scum doesn't clear you. I mean, look how me and Equinox bussed him.

Xine, you can't just claim VT and expect to be cleared. You have to actually do town things. lol at Ythill thinking she's scum too.
I'm fine with the QT being posted, but I always seem to do it so Equinox can.

[Antihero]

^You two only said something

after

I said something, though.

[Oso]

Good job Equinox and Me=Weird.

Scum QT

I was keeping my eye on the game as far as I was able. Mildly surprised that it ended today but Equinox and Me=Weird really did the right thing I think, killing Antihero. I figured that Me=Weird was pretty good as the vote focus on ICEninja was on my #2 sheep vote rather than his initial vote. I think he got some backhand town points there when me/chesskid flipped scum. When I replaced out though, I gave Equinox about a 60/40 chance of being lynched today with the odds in her favor.

I'll try and catch up the parts I missed as there are some comments I'd like to make about the game before I left but most of my spare time at the moment is in the middle of the night and it's really easy to choose sleep over making/reading posts.

Disclaimer: Had I known for sure I was the lynch for day 2, I'd not have replaced out. I was honestly surprised that chesskid was lynched. I didn't figure that slot was in THAT bad of shape. It was in trouble for sure but not unrecoverable in my opinion.

[Antihero]

...I think we need to get rid of Antihero. His scumdar is working at max potential for this game, and I can't predict his movements.

lol, you made the right choice. You were my top suspect for bussing when Oso flipped.

But, in fairness, I don't think I would have caught M=W unless he said something really stupid.

[chesskid3]

It was a pretty extreme bus, imo. I think with both scum determined to bus slot was doomed, if not maybe not.
But a misslynch would have ended it on D2 with the modkill, so

[AGar]

Also, Oso, I'd like you to weigh in on posting your claim that you had drafted up. I didn't send it to CK3, only because I wasn't sure what the ideas surrounding that were. Not sure if other mods allow it/whatnot.

My question to the scumteam - why not kill ICEninja? I dunno, I felt he was more of a threat than even Zinive as the JK, but that was just me.

[Equinox]

Oso brought it up. I went through with it because I didn't want to kill off all the obvtown too early, lest this happens:

Equinox and Ice are suspicious for not being dead when they looked the most town coming into today

[ICEninja]

Well town's loss was largely my fault. The fact that I pegged Oso as scum was more luck than anything else, honesty. I never at one point in this game after day 1 went back and read a single post or looked at a single player in ISO, something I usually do in games quite a few times every day. But whatever. Fernando and PerArdua we're scum's best players in this game, hands down without any doubt.

I have never seen so much hate for a dead townie. And it's not even like I fake claimed or did anything crazy, either.

It was simply because in gut reads (I pretty much didn't use any logic in anything, and my gut reads usually suck which is why I don't use them in games I care about) we're wrong. I thought one scum HAD to be between you and Xine, but I knew that one of you had to be town. With you dead, I felt much safer in a Xine lynch.

If Xine was scum I was gonna lynch M=W on day 4, but Equinox being scum blindsided me pretty hard. Granted I didn't really read much and I might have picked up on it another time, but you played excellently. M=W was fairly solid too. I claimed to have a town read on M=W because I wanted scum to night kill him just in case I was wrong, to hedge my bets. Probably the only clever thing I did, and it didn't matter anyway.

Xine, if you didn't want to be lynched, you should have told us who else was scum and why. You just kinda sat there and said "oh my only scum suspicion just claimed PR and is almost guaranteed town, so now I don't have any suspicion. Oh well." It didn't work out for you, if you noticed. That post was the one where I was prety much dead set on lynching you. Before that I could have been convinced to change my vote.

My question to the scumteam - why not kill ICEninja? I dunno, I felt he was more of a threat than even Zinive as the JK, but that was just me.

Man wouldn't that have been awesome. I would have been jailed, which would have confirmed me as town after Llama claimed and said he killed Shattered, AND we would have had an extra lynch.

Anyways, this wasn't a game I particularly enjoyed, but not for lack of fun people to play with. It's always a pleasure to play with Equinox, and I was impressed with how hard chess fought for his slot. Llama, while tough to read his posts, was a great asset to the town, and scum played wonderfully. Anti was pretty good too, but was hurt by his predecessor, which is really unfortunate.

Oh well. Not all games go as you want them.

[Oso]

..
My question to the scumteam - why not kill ICEninja? I dunno, I felt he was more of a threat than even Zinive as the JK, but that was just me.

Saw this real quick. My short answer. Risk management. ICEninja was, for me, fairly easy to read and, when compared to Llamarble, easier to predict. I've always had a policy, as scum, to kill off claimed PRs as quickly as possible. I also laid out somewhat, in the scum QT, how I think killing a claimed PR can help find other PRs. Although you do run the risk of losing one of your own when you do that.

I'll post the claim I had cobbled together later on today, AGar. I think it could have saved the slot but it was iffy. Despite what I said in my last post, my sheeping of Me=Weird was pretty damaging for the slot. The main point of the claim was not to keep it from getting lynched but rather to get a mis-lynch on either ICEninja or Antihero. Without the mod-kill of Per, the slot would have definitely been swinging Day 3 even had I pulled it off.

[Oso]

EBWOP:Llamarble should be Zinive.

[Oso]

@AGar

Basically, I was going to claim Gunsmith with a positive on Antihero. But I wasn't going to initially push for his lynch out of hand. That was the backpedal from 2 scum to 1 scum.

The whole premise was constructed around players who had too much information (or that is how I was going to sell it anyway). ICEninja's was scummy knowledge, Antihero's was town knowledge. Despite what folks may say about my sheep vote of M=W, M=W hit it right on the head (even though he was scum) when ICEninja went straight to Vigilante past all other possibilities. The test I used was this: Had I been town in this game, ICEninja would have gotten my vote simply based on the strength of his opening post day 2 and the "phony" (I know, as scum, it wasn't phony but would have belived it was had I been town) demoralization he was showing. It ranks right up there, in my opinion, with expressing (over)disappointment over a PR NK or congratulating the Doc on a successful save. The one side effect that it did have was that it confirmed Netlava/Netoplis as town (remember, I'm pulling myself out of scum's head and going back into town for this). No way his(Netlava's) reaction was faked and it hung a "TOWNIE" sign on that slot permanently.

So, ICEninja is scum. Antihero is town. Why? My fake investigation and he has a gun. He's the Vig (I know he isn't now, but I had a decent feeling he might have been despite being a replacement. We did have one PR flake so for this game, having a second Town PR replaced didn't seem a stretch). Hence the back off from two scum on a platter to one. I don't want to out the Vig. Timing would have been fairly critical because in order to sell this (at least in my opinion) my claim had to be VERY reluctant. I had to not only wait for L-1 but also get a person who said they were willing to drop the hammer. Then I could 'out' myself as the Gunsmith and Anti as the Vig and have a decent chance (I think) of being belived as the gunsmith. Even though Llama turned out to be the Vig, had Anti or Llama either one said my deductions were wrong, I think I could sold the 'not wanting to out the vig' thinking long enough to get the positive gun on Antihero explored. Perhaps to lynch. Had he been the Vig, Anti would have been in a minor problem of thinking me scum but having to decide if I figured out he was the Vig from my Night Result and then looking at the thread OR constructing a fake-claim by first figuring out his role from the thread.

From a town standpoint, again in my opinion, the ONLY reason not to go after ICEninja after his first Day 2 post is because you are looking for a partner (yes partner) bussing a mate that just made a big mistake, especially if you are the Vig and plan on shooting the obvscum with too much knowledge tonight.

That was the bare bones of it anyway. I think I could have made it work but like any lie, it had a decent chance of not doing what I wanted. But I would have enjoyed trying it.

The nice thing about it, again in my opinion, if I was believed, then either ICEninja or Antihero were getting lynched instead of me. ICEninja, if Antihero was the Vig. Antihero, if he wasn't. The only roadblock was selling my fake claim just long enough to get to the end of the day. Had Paruda not been on the mod-kill block, I would still have been swinging after an Antihero flip. ICEninja, not so much. Had I tagged Anti correctly as the Vig, I could have gave a false negative on Netopolis , or better yet, claim being blocked (to show town some of the scum power we didn't have) and stood a poor to fair (again, depending on how the day ended) chance of having it belived for one more day even with a Town ICEninja flip.

(Taking a break today so I'll be posting again later, I have some things I want to say and don't want to be overly harsh doing so but I want to say them.)

[Oso]

First off.

Thanks AGar, for taking the time to setup and run the game. I was having fun playing in it and the BaM ruleset wasn't detracting from it at all. Not a slam on you, AGar, but I doubt I will be playing in a BaM ruleset again. You did do a good job of getting replacements despite the ruleset though so you'd probably be the only Mod whose BaM game I would consider playing in again. Rules are rules but I am gratified that you voluntarily went outside the rigid interpretation of them where it was possible for you to do so.

Me=Wierd and Equinox. I'd team up with either of you again and hope that feeling is returned. As to my replacing out, I could have done that better. Personal considerations aside, when I felt the need to pretty much cut all ties to MafiaScum (and other online commitments I had) in order to concentrate on thing in other areas, this is one I should have held on to. The Mod commitment I had wasn't a big deal (I was still pretty far down the queue) and the other was a Large Theme in Day 1 so wasn't a big deal there either. But in my excitement over some good news in my personal life, work ramping for the holidays and the holidays themselves, I think I cut back too severely and this game was one I shouldn't have bushed out on. I could have made time for this. You guys (and AGar and the rest of the players) have my apologies.

To the rest of the players, I had fun playing with you. Although when I come back to playing, I suspect it will take a lot of convincing towards Xine that I'm not scum should we be in a game together again. I've played 2 consecutive games with her and been scum in both of them.

Meta Alert:

..

I don't see how town would be having loads of fun with this game considering what has happened so far. I believe his reasons for replacing out, but I really think this guy is scum.

Deadline is in 2 days, let's not bother with a replacement. I don't even think there's much need of a claim, due to how many dead town PRs there already are. I've been suspicious of Oso from the get go of this day, and all the points made against him have been increasingly convincing.

Right on the scum part, obviously, wrong in one of your reasons (more than one actually but I'll get into that later). Playing Mafia is FUN Winning is generally more fun than losing but it's all good. Win, lose, draw doesn't matter (Reminds me of Mr. Miyagi in the Karate Kid - "Win, lose, no matter. Make good fight. Earn respect."). I still have a blast. If you get confronted with this same situation where I'm concerned (hopefully it won't happen again) using the fact I have said I am 'having loads of fun' to make an alignment call will probably end up biting you in the ass.

As did me going after ICEninja in the first place on Day 2. Another apology is due to everyone there as well most especially to AGar, Me=Weird and Equinox. Even though I was trying to get a townie lynched when ICEninja said this:

Well, wow.

I really just don't even want to play this game anymore

.

To whoever the vig is, sure I don't mind Shattered dying on the account that he was an ass, but did you even look at the vote count? He was one of the few people NOT on the mislynch wagon. Terrible shot choice.

But whatever. I really just don't even care at all at this point.

I voted, not playing to scum's wincon, but rather to get him lynched as quickly as possible (by scum) using his defeatism as the primary reason to do so. He managed to hit on only one of three areas that make mafia NOT FUN for me to play. Those being a Player who is so spastic of a VI that I want to lynch him just to shut him up, but can't because he's a Town VI and not a Scum VI, lethargic town and a player who infects other players with an 'I no longer care' attitude that leads to a lethargic town. This alignment null also. Just my bad luck that it happened in this case when I was scum. I'd have pushed just as hard for it had I been town (unfortunately, to the exclusion of my wincon there as well. Something I need to work on).

Town didn't lose here:

FeRnAnDo, Town Cop - Lynched, Day 1
Zinive, Town Jailkeeper - Killed, Night 1

Shattered Viewpoint, Vanilla Townie - Killed, Night 1
Chesskid3 Oso, Mafia Goon - Lynched, Day 2

PerArdua, Vanilla Townie Neutral Survivor - Modkilled, Day 2 for Violating Rule 12

Or for the the BaM ruleset.

Town lost the second you(ICEninja) admitted defeat. With all that had gone wrong for town in this game, that was the tipping point. Up until that post, and the attitude you carried on after that post to an extent, town still had a chance. A slim one to be sure but still a chance. When 1 of the town's major players that had been strong up to that point, tanks like that, it's almost an unrecoverable situation for town especially since the one person I could see (Antihero) who might have been able to pull you back from that died during the night. That is why I fully support M=W and Equinox's choice for the Night 2 kill. It got rid of the only support town might have had for a comeback.

My apologies if that sounds too harsh. I did my best to tone it down from what I've wanted to say to you since that post. I almost wished I was town for this game so I could have taken a (better) shot at trying to shock you out of your funk.

That being said, I do look forward to playing with each and every one of you again at some point

[Llamarble]

@Antihero: My being happy about your death wasn't because I thought you were bad but more because I expected to lose one of my town reads. After you died I thought the next deaths would be Ice and Equinox, leaving me in position to make my claim with 3 players left. That would turn a 1/4 chance for town (two townies have to make a 50/50 guess correctly) into a 1/2 chance, since after the scum either CCed or didn't one town player would know who the scum was. The massclaim negated that plan, which was my reason for disliking it. Eventually I felt like I would have to give my role away to prevent a massclaim anyway, accomplishing nothing, so I gave in.

Reading the scum QT was interesting and gave me a bit more of an idea what kind of strategies scum are using.

How does one play one shot vig well?
Should the shot actually be saved for later on or used early?
Were there any other aspects of my play I should improve on?
I'll probably stay away from early scumlists and giving away town reads in the future and write them down somewhere.
I'm also going to try to be very clear and concise with my logic.


I plan to play in another mini normal right away, so maybe I'll see some of you there.