Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[PogoStick]

what the hell is this straw man crap?

I am entitled to change my mind also

[Doombunny9]

I unvoted him before he claimed, he claimed while nor being close to a lynch, right now out of everyone that is the most scummy behavior I have detected so yes I would go back to him because that has cemented enough to be scum, however you purposely trying to twist everything I say and do into a negative way is being noted for future reference

You don't seem as much of an issue with Fur's claim here:

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

First you say that mafia wouldn't be obvious about this and have doubts about him and now its the most scummy thing you've seen and he's now voteworthy for it. WUT? I can't imagine this being something you've just changed your mind about so quickly either.

FoS: HOMJ

[Furcolow]

I have to catchup. I have company, and we are playing poker, but i will put effort into scumhunting within the next 30 hours intensively in all likelihood.

[Empking]

Hop's play especially with the change of mind about the claim and the lack of vote look like poor distancing to me. I'd be happy with either lynch at this point.

[Furcolow]

There isn't anything he could be distancing from with me. He could be feigning that, though. I am town.

[PogoStick]

I unvoted him before he claimed, he claimed while nor being close to a lynch, right now out of everyone that is the most scummy behavior I have detected so yes I would go back to him because that has cemented enough to be scum, however you purposely trying to twist everything I say and do into a negative way is being noted for future reference

You don't seem as much of an issue with Fur's claim here:

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

First you say that mafia wouldn't be obvious about this and have doubts about him and now its the most scummy thing you've seen and he's now voteworthy for it. WUT? I can't imagine this being something you've just changed your mind about so quickly either.

FoS: HOMJ

I said that is the most scummiest thing done so far in the game, do i think mafia would be so stupid to be obvious,

no i don't

Have i seen mafia be obvious like that in the past,

yes I have, cause sometimes mafia can be dumb

If I have nothing else to go on than yeah i will lynch furclow but right now I haven't even been looking deep into other people's posts and I think that is why I am so confused right now.

[PogoStick]

Reading back here are my notes on everyone

Zang needs to be prodded, replaced, or just lynched.

TonyMontana needs to be more involved in the conversation of the game instead of just making useless posts, he has had only one serious game related post and that was his vote

sorasgoof - also needs to start participating, none of his posts have really been useful and just seems like words with no content

Shattered - even before he announced he was V/LA I thought he probabl was cause he hasn't posted anything of value

Nocman - has only one of his 3 posts are game related and that one posts seems awfully political, I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

LordChronos - he seems to lurk into the backround and comes out of nowhere once he finds somebody else to attack, I say that if furc is scum, I would give Lord my look as being his scum buddy. He is trying to direct the attention off of furc and direct it towards me on a very weak case.

GhostWriter - yet another inactive person that needs prodded or replaced

foilist13 - needs to be replaced or prodded, 1st post he claims his role (if he is telling the truth) which is very odd

Empking - has completely avoided any type of scum hunting

Doombunny - At first it looked like he was serious about scum hunting but ruins all credibility when he FOS's inactives. instead of FOS'ing them he shoudl request they get prodded. he does FOS me and I adimit I probably deserve to be FOS'd because I changed my mind, if changing my mind is scummy than yeah FOS me, but I personally don't think changing my mind is scummy.

furclow - now here is something interesting, remember what I said about Lord Chronos? Furc's first REAL vote was for.... Lord Chronos and the rest of his posts are defense posts and attempts to show he is pro-town

The problem with me is I have seen so many VIs get lynched on day one being town and it is just something people on this site like to do. Furclow does look like he is trying hard to seem he is pro town which makes him scummy but I have also read some of his games briefly and he is just a really poor player. After reading through I am pretty sure Andrew and Lord are scum buddies, but I think if furc flipps town, Lord is still a good option being scum.

You guys want to FOS me for flip flopping go ahead, but you if you have an open mind furclow is A. scum trying to act town or B. VI trying to save himself and he is town.

he is very confusing and because of that and because his flip will help me know more about Lord Chronos

Vote furclow

[Doombunny9]

@Mod: Can we get a prod on Foil and Zang?

@HOMJ- For the purposes of this question let's assume you're right and you did change your mind about it. When exactly did you change your mind?

I am town.

You keep saying this and yet it doesn't work. Do you think repitition will convince everyone that you're right? Instead of saying that you're town why don't you prove it to us?

I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

Hmmm...You're probably right. I think that its very weak and there are some flaws in there:

1. It was my first post of the game (other than my confirm post) so it seems obvious to me that it was just awkward timing.
2. If it was a scum BW vote did I really expect to see a lynch carried out right after the RVS?
3. As I mentioned it was a weak vote since it was still early and at the time I didn't want to see fur lynched.

At first it looked like he was serious about scum hunting but ruins all credibility when he FOS's inactives.

Can you explain to me how FoSing inactives is scummy? I should have asked for a prod (Note to self: Always look at timestamps when talking about inactives). However, I do still slightly FoS them (I'm against LAL just for policy reasons however, I do think its scummy).

he does FOS me and I adimit I probably deserve to be FOS'd because I changed my mind, if changing my mind is scummy than yeah FOS me, but I personally don't think changing my mind is scummy.

Except that I'm not sold on that you changed your mind. To me it looks more like you trying to back out of your Nocman vote (because you weren't really getting anywhere with it other than attacked by LC and Noc) while trying to join in on the Fur wagon.

[Empking]

Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

[PogoStick]

Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

well it is hard to get a positive read on anyone when they don't post but right now, nope I don't any positive reads on anyone.

[Zang]

Sorry, I had an unexpected V/LA this weekend and could not get to a computer. But here's what I think of the game so far.

unvote. Vote: Furcolow

No Lynch is anti-town

Why did you vote furcolow? It was the RVS, every vote is anti-town and just because he voted for it in the RVS does not mean he supports it.

And why I say no lynch is anti town, now I don't have figures for the entire site, in newbie games when NL happens, mafia wins > 80% of the time

1. No lynch is not anti town, that data only supports no lynch in day 1.
2. That is newbie game data. This is a theme game, it has a different amount of players, different roles, different alignments and sometimes different mechanics. Why are you relying on data that has no relation to this game at all?
3. This is like saying "Don't lynch me because I have a 75% chance of being town." It does not matter what the chances are, you have no way of predicting what the outcome would be in this game.

1. Doesn't matter you voted it
2. How would I know, I can't read minds
3. Yes I read but you directed a comment about NL to me so that was me responding, I'm on my iPhone so I didnt quote the entire post

He explained that he did not expect a no lynch in his previous post. And even if he didn't explain it, why would you assume that? I voted for TM, does that mean I want him to be lynched?

do you all want me to claim? L-3

Why do you want to claim at L-3? And why did you only claim your flavor when you did claim?

Why I will vote furcolow:

1. Repeatedly asking whether scum has fakeclaims, even tho it says in the rules that they do.
2. Way to eager to use said fakeclaim.

Then why did you encourage him to claim?

@ Doom - cause I just think he isn't a very good player, I could see his NL suggestion being town motivated, I used to be a fan of NLs until recently, than seeing that data just sealed it

But he did not suggest a no lynch.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

Which of his games did you read? 

You also say that his wagon seems to go away too early but actually nobody has removed them from his wagon but me, and when I unvoted, somebody else joined it so that is a misrepresentation of facts.

You were the only person pushing the wagon. Lord Chronos and Empking joined for the same reason you did. Doombunny and TM votes on him are very weak. So his wagon is going away,

and if you are town and somebody suggested something anti-town like a no lynch, why would you not vote them just for that? NL is anti town, it removes the need to scum hunt and anyone pushing for a no lynch should be voted.

 

Once again, he never suggested a no lynch. And even If someone did suggest something anti-town, I wouldn't vote for them because there is a difference between anti town and scummy. No lynch is just as bad for mafia if not worse.

Furc has done some scummy moves this game so I will probably vote him again if I don't pick up on something else

So why did you unvote him?

I unvoted him before he claimed, he claimed while nor being close to a lynch, right now out of everyone that is the most scummy behavior I have detected so yes I would go back to him because that has cemented enough to be scum, however you purposely trying to twist everything I say and do into a negative way is being noted for future reference

But you did unvote after he asked if he could claim while at L-3.

what the hell is this straw man crap?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Straw_Man

I am entitled to change my mind also

Not when you contradict what you previously said in order to appear more pro-town. 

foilist13 - needs to be replaced or prodded, 1st post he claims his role (if he is telling the truth) which is very odd

He wasn't serious

Doombunny - At first it looked like he was serious about scum hunting but ruins all credibility when he FOS's inactives. instead of FOS'ing them he shoudl request they get prodded. he does FOS me and I adimit I probably deserve to be FOS'd because I changed my mind, if changing my mind is scummy than yeah FOS me, but I personally don't think changing my mind is scummy.

You did the same thing by saying that we needed to be "prodded, replaced or lynched". But you didn't ask the mod to prod us.

furclow - now here is something interesting, remember what I said about Lord Chronos? Furc's first REAL vote was for.... Lord Chronos and the rest of his posts are defense posts and attempts to show he is pro-town

This only works if Lord Chronos is scum so why aren't you voting for him?

Unvote
Vote: HopOnMyJoystick

[PogoStick]

Holy wall of text batman, I'll read up on this when not on my phone

not voting for lc cause I think Its more if furc is maf than lc is, not sure what lc is if furc flipps town

[Empking]

I voted Fur for defending himself using WIFOM.

[LordChronos]

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

[PogoStick]

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

1. Did not really defend him
2. Straw man is new to me but doubt it is anti town
3. Change of opinion =/= back tracking
4. Pushing me now after I linked you to furc and not commenting on my link of you to is classic deflection
5. Not sure what pbpa is but I'm assuming you mean giving my reads on people in the game, had nothing to do with paranoia.

I have no reason to be paranoid and these votes on me are just silly.

[LordChronos]

1.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but

I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

(of course I could be wrong)

That sure sounds like defending Furc to me. Especially the bold.
2. Straw man is very scummy.
3. But Furc did nothing to change your opinion. The only thing that happened between your first opinion and your second was you coming under pressure.
4. I pushed you before you tried to link me to Furc, so I am not deflecting. I am pursuing my case against you. And your attack against me comes off as being completely OMGUS.
5. PBPA is player-by-player analysis. I wasn't saying that it was paranoid to make the PBPA, I meant your opinions you gave were paranoid. See your read of me for and example.

[esuriospiritus]

Oops, I'm like 15 hours overdue on prod checks. My bad. I fell asleep way early last night.

foilist13 will be prodded.

GhostWriter is dangerously close to receiving a prod (9:37 PM today, EST -- that's four and a half hours from now).

Everyone else is in the clear for now.

Vote count when we get to page six,

because I'm lazy like that

so I can hopefully get it closer to the top of the page.

[PogoStick]

1.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but

I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

(of course I could be wrong)

That sure sounds like defending Furc to me. Especially the bold.
2. Straw man is very scummy.
3. But Furc did nothing to change your opinion. The only thing that happened between your first opinion and your second was you coming under pressure.
4. I pushed you before you tried to link me to Furc, so I am not deflecting. I am pursuing my case against you. And your attack against me comes off as being completely OMGUS.
5. PBPA is player-by-player analysis. I wasn't saying that it was paranoid to make the PBPA, I meant your opinions you gave were paranoid. See your read of me for and example.

my read on you is pretty damn spot on and I proved it when I got down to furc and saw he voted you. this was classic mafia voting mafia imo.

as for wifom defense, I guess you have a point but it was just coincidental.

Basically this is me on furc

1. I voted him cause NL was scummy, I didn't think his NL was RVS voting, but now hindsight I guess it could be.
2. This site has made me more cautious with lynching people like furc, because he belongs to the same group of people like Andrew, Shotty, David Parker, and some would say I belong in that group (I disagree with myself cause I have never and will never fake claim a power role if I am vanilla townie, and the others in that group including furc have) that being said these guys are almost always lynched day 1 because they are just crappy players and come off scummy almost every game.

That was the reason I unvoted him, I just don't want to be part of a furc wagon so early in the game

3. looking through the game mostly due to inactivity, there really hasn't been anyone else standing out as scum. I am cautious of these people who have been inactive and than come back in and vote for somebody (even if it is for me, if they voted for someone else I would be cautious) The reason why I find these people odd because in my mind they can be

a. townies who have not really followed the game and based on their limited catching up think they have seen something scummy
b. mafia like a shark, somebody has found a new person slightly scummy so they come in and attack and throw in a vote

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

[Doombunny9]

@HOMJ- I asked you two questions in my last post. Feel like answering?

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

Is everyone going to do this when they have enough pressure on them? XD It didn't work for Fur and its not going to work for you

[Nocmen]

Nocman - has only one of his 3 posts are game related and that one posts seems awfully political, I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

My posts have been infrequent because as I've said, my internet access is extremely limited during the weekends. This game started on Thursday, and to me, the weekends start on Friday. I'm sorry that I can't be here constantly to post immediately after every post to reply. Additionally, you move your vote from me because I didn't get a reply from emp and bunny? Or is it because fur looked more suspicious. If he looks more suspicious, then why did you even vote for me? The posts from furc between the vote on me and the vote on him are little to go with, I can't see much why you would change your mind other than you were called out by LordChronos for the vote on me. On top of that, as Emp mentioned, you seem to keep your options open. Not that I'm forcing you to say whether you think someone is town or scum now and hold you to it for the whole game, but your votes seem to say that you'll take any small reason to change your votes.

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

Why do you say HOMJ's WIFOM is more scummy than Fur's WIFOM?

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

1. Did not really defend him
2. Straw man is new to me but doubt it is anti town
3. Change of opinion =/= back tracking
4. Pushing me now after I linked you to furc and not commenting on my link of you to is classic deflection
5. Not sure what pbpa is but I'm assuming you mean giving my reads on people in the game, had nothing to do with paranoia.

I have no reason to be paranoid and these votes on me are just silly.

I do feel that straw man arguments are anti-town, they are twisting words to get a personal agenda.

And no, I don't feel that these votes on you are silly at all. Look at the reply I had to your previous post above.

Additionally, you don't want to be part of a furc wagon, so you unvote him and almost immedaitely turn around and vote him again. How is this different from the same early wagon you didn't want to be on? It's the same wagon.
VOTE: HopOnMyJoystick

[PogoStick]

@HOMJ- I asked you two questions in my last post. Feel like answering?

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

Is everyone going to do this when they have enough pressure on them? XD It didn't work for Fur and its not going to work for you

I missed your questions, will look for them now

[PogoStick]

1. I can't remember when exactly I changed my mind
2. FOS'ing inactives serves no purpose, because they are inactive and can't tell they are being FOS'd

[PogoStick]

@HOMJ- I asked you two questions in my last post. Feel like answering?

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

Is everyone going to do this when they have enough pressure on them? XD It didn't work for Fur and its not going to work for you

oh and this 2nd part, you realize that people who are pro-town will do this also, are you always going to assume anyone who says that is scum?

[foilist13]

Right, I'm back. Give me a minute to catch up. I'll have my first epic to semi-epic post tomorrow.

[Doombunny9]

1. I can't remember when exactly I changed my mind

All I really want is the general area. Even just telling me if it happened before, during, or after you had your vote on Noc would be helpful although I would prefer it to be more precise.

2. FOS'ing inactives serves no purpose, because they are inactive and can't tell they are being FOS'd

Except for when they come back, reread, and see they were FoSed...

oh and this 2nd part, you realize that people who are pro-town will do this also, are you always going to assume anyone who says that is scum?

What I was getting at was that it doesn't work so there's no point in trying. It only really becomes a problem if you're like Fur and somehow manage to make it a major part of your defence that for some reason he needs to remind us of in every other post XD