Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[boberz]

I was called on a contradiction, there was no contradiction I never said the bit in bold, that was hiraki adding stuff into my quote in bold. Why he did this I dont know.

I dot have time to dealwith the larger posts yet 1000 words to go.

[Lateralus22]

Ah nvm, thought it was you not his response. People online should answer my question.

[Dekes]

Picked up prod, just got home, 3 a.m., got snowed in, post tomorrow. Good night everyone.

[LordChronos]

@Lateralus

I think probably the two scummiest players are moose and Beefster. moose mainly for his "excuse the fact that I am scummy" confirm post, Beefster for his response to boberz answer to Beefster's vote.

[Substrike22]

In order of posts read:

@ Antius Maximus (Ant to the max) re: post 85, quoted here:

What don't you like about me calling for an information gathering pressure wagon?

That is not what I meant. I mean I hate the "dude, lynch this guy now" phases.

Now, onto Moose.
After I looked at his past games, I don't think he is scum. Look at his past games and you will see this is just who he is.

Note: in post #75 I am quoted for something I didn't say. Mr Wright's name should be there.

I wasn't calling for his lynch, I was calling for more votes. There is a difference to me. When I say the guy needs rope, I want him dead. If I say I want pressure, I want him at L-2 or somewhere in the vicinity. Gets people talking, imo, and I wanted him talking. Plus Moos was ok with posting content-less posts and being sarcastic when we all had a pile of valid reasons building on him. I am and was hoping this would cause Moos to actually post something decent. It has not, and

now I'm calling for Moos to be lynched.

Bolded so there isn't confusion this time. (not sarcastic, promise) Also I agree with whoever (Hiraki or Boberz) said that Meta is a bad way to go. People can manipulate their playstyles knowing their meta will be looked at. He said he was scum. He needs to die. If they're going to come out and claim scum, that's extremely anti-town and unhelpful in any way. Moos needs rope.

@ Hiraki, in post 89, when you're citing AntB's stuff at the bottom, how did you generate those post numbers? I tried reading the game with both with him in Iso and with everyone viewable and the post numbers weren't lining up. Just trying to follow your argument.

@ Lateralus, I don't generally share anything other than my scum reads anymore, for a variety of reasons. If I had to summarize my standpoints at this point in a few sentences, I want Moos dead and I'm currently watching a few other players. Lord Chronos is striking me as scummy as well, at this point. He's posted 4 times and if anyone Iso's those 4 posts it looks dangerously like active lurking. I have one player who I fully believe is town, and another one that I believe is beginning to be called on scummy traits, but I'll keep those to myself for now. Mariyta is temporarly absconded from this wrath because I believe he/she has just fallen inactive... i.e. there aren't a few scattered posts here and there making it seem like Mariyta is attempting to avoid a prod. Also, I find myself agreeing with your sentiment on Beefster, given his posts thus far.

@ LordChronos, given the above statement, I'd like to see more reads and posts out of you. Don't do town reads, for the reasons boberz' pointed out with the "shopping list". Just your top 2-3 scum reads and concrete reasons other than "I agree" would be nice. Thank you Same goes with Mariyta when he/she gets on.

For the record: I disagree with everyone saying Hiraki needs to share his town reads. I think he does need to throw his top 2-3 scum reads up, past Moos, and reasons for them.

p-edit: Thank you, LordChronos. A little more would be helpful though, if you can manage something.

[Beefster]

Beefster surely if anything I was overattacking? How can I be overdefensive in attacking someone?
Fail accusation.

Fail defense. You make a decent point, yet you kinda missed my point and ended up digging yourself into a hole.

How so? is overattacking a scumtell for me now. In fact you have seen my meta so you know it is not.

Yeah... One game. Not really a valid argument. (not to mention it was a newbie game, and stuff could've changed since then)

You were overdefensive in claiming that you were overattacking rather than overdefending. In that sense you dug your hole deeper. I'm also not liking the way you've reacted to the votes on you. You have something to lose, don't you?

Anyhting else to add beefster, your points have been a little shallow so far. (It neednt have to be about me I just mean in general.)

I'm working on getting focus. I'm in theme and bastard games right now, so I'm trying to get back into the serious mafia mood. It's also a bit nervewracking when 2+ pages appear overnight- as an argument between 3 players. (Although I've seen much worse...)

[LordChronos]

Sub: No reason not to list town reads. The idea that they give scum a shopping list of people to night kill is silly. First, your town reads tend to be fairly obvious from your play. Second, the scum are trying to remove town's power roles as well.

Also, I felt that moose was fairly clearly being sarcastic when he made the "I am scum" comment. What gave you the impression that he wasn't?

Beefster:
Saying someone is overdefensive when they clearly are not is not a case. What didn't you like about his reaction to votes on him?

[Lateralus22]

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was

page 1

, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

You were overdefensive in claiming that you were overattacking rather than overdefending. In that sense you dug your hole deeper. I'm also not liking the way you've reacted to the votes on you. You have something to lose, don't you?

Oh my.

Let's look at this example.

Person A: You are scum because your user name is in bold!

Person B

: What, my username is in italics, there's nothing wrong with that!
Person A: Die Bold demon from the netherlands!

Now how is

boberz

possibly

scum

for being

overdefensive

when he wasn't? Your logic has failed, what you're accusing of boberz of doing is not only false and your justification for him being over defensive isn't really so.

More votes on Beefster-scum please.

Preview Edit

: Chronos is right, Town reads are tech. Though I'd say keep majority to yourself/not post empty claims of having them unless it's good to put them out.

[moose200x]

So substrike- Just to clarify right now. Do you think I am scum or do you think I am just anti-town?

[boberz]

Not really a valid argument. (not to mention it was a newbie game, and stuff could've changed since then)

Is a valid argument anyway. And if you remember correctly I wasnt a newbie in that game. But I am not trying to make a massive meta defence, just accusation is utter bollocks defece.

Also, I felt that moose was fairly clearly being sarcastic when he made the "I am scum" comment.

He was, but why would town (however idiotic) ever make that joke. especially when he is feeling so victimised and such already. That was rather my point. (I know you werent talking to me but I am replying anyway.

---

@Beefster, why is information "nervewracking"? Seems a strange word to pick.

No town reads for more reasons than the shopping list that is just one. We are looking for scum not town. We influence other people's town reads undermining town working together by majority rather than power. And the shopping list is relevant because PRs will not want to look too town which is a stupid situation town should not be creating. (any more on this take it to MD. But do not post town reads here)

You have something to lose, don't you?

I genuinely dont understand this. I have the game to lose, but so does everyone of every allignment. I am confused. The way I reacted to votes was a dismissive but angry. As always. The thicker the accusation the more I kick off. Hence my fuse getting ever shorter with your senselessness.

---

Substrike, why are you calling for moose to be lynched now when you werent earlier. I am fairly certain you have said it but I missed it.

---

You were overdefensive in claiming that you were overattacking rather than overdefending.

Is anyone buying this bollocks. How can he have accused me of being over defensive to an attack he made when he attacked me for overdefensiveness before I (alledgedly) overdefended myself to his attack? (I should be on Yes Minister)

On a serious note the site needs to lose this 'over-defensiveness' stuff. There is no such thing.

[moose200x]

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

[Lateralus22]

Moose, who do you think is scum and why?

[Hiraki]

Mariyta is not due for a prod (even by request) until tomorrow morning.

Yuck.

What??? If you believe in that why would you vote for some random person instead? Why would you vote in all when in our last game you were so adamant against doing so early on?

Btw. this confirms Lateralus scum or Substrike scum. /animepun

First off, I explained it quite clearly in the post. Call it it an FoS if you want. I was not ready to vote either of the two suspects, therefore, I voted randomly.

Stupid theory is stupid. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Oddly enough here's a game where moose cracked as scum under pressure. Not the greatest reactions by town, but you know what I mean. Late vote feels weird though. Why exactly now instead of earlier, was it just the spur of the moment. Did you feel boberz pressure you into this?

First off, thank you for proving my point about Meta, since I was too lazy to care about it.

Second off, I just posted my opinions. I don't like pressure. Not my fault. I didn't start the fire. Of course, if I wanted to get rid of it I could, but then I'd be scummy, no? (lolonlyscumcareaboutbeinscummy)

Third, no. It was mostly the last quote that drove me into voting Moose.

Post #51: Yeah, qft. Hiraki should explain his early town reads.

Only on Tuesdays!

Post #89 (Hiraki): Wha???? No. Tell us what town reads you got from the early pages or die.

So this confirms Lateralus22scum and Substrike-town. /animepunpt2

Post #89 (Hiraki): Really confused why Hiraki has a RVS fetish. This never occurred last game when I literally ripped RVS's throat out early on. You even told me then you then you didn't like moving your vote around and considered it anti town! Why is that behavior not present here?

You have to change your tactics someday that you realize they don't work as efficiently anymore. Besides, surprise is the ultimate weapon.

I did not confirm Moose200x as town. I also didn't use meta to form my townread on him. I merely stated that the 'change' post should not be interpreted as a scumtell coming from someone like Moose200x.

...Yes you did.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's town from the way he's been posting.

Same quote with the bold.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I was called on a contradiction, there was no contradiction I never said the bit in bold, that was hiraki adding stuff into my quote in bold. Why he did this I dont know.

Where did I do this?

Picked up prod, just got home, 3 a.m., got snowed in, post tomorrow. Good night everyone.

Le
Soupir

I think probably the two scummiest players are moose and Beefster. moose mainly for his "excuse the fact that I am scummy" confirm post, Beefster for his response to boberz answer to Beefster's vote.

Way to BW. Not like it's bad, but y'know.

Sigh.

@ Hiraki, in post 89, when you're citing AntB's stuff at the bottom, how did you generate those post numbers? I tried reading the game with both with him in Iso and with everyone viewable and the post numbers weren't lining up. Just trying to follow your argument.

Those are his posts numbers for Moose's ISO. It's in order and stuff. >___>

For the record: I disagree with everyone saying Hiraki needs to share his town reads. I think he does need to throw his top 2-3 scum reads up, past Moos, and reasons for them.

Oh. Hmm. Well, AntB I've already covered. I'm not too convinced on the Beefster case, but I'll have to read it up more, it doesn't look that convincing, to be quite honest. Fuck it. I'll do this in a different post, I'm just getting these off the top of my head now.

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was page 1, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

FFS. FINE. TUESDAY ISN'T HERE YET. BUT IT'S GONEEEEEE WITH THE WINNDDDDDDD TO THURSDAY.

VOTE: Mr Wright

Just what are you insinuating?

Note that these reads are old, and became outdated after my analysis on AntB.

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I

really

can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

VOTE: AntB

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4571132
You have the wrong one Mr. Wright! He is clearly impersonating me!

(and sadly, with that, I must be off to work :/ be back in 9ish hours)

Scum don't do this either. That would create a BW on Page 1. The only one at this point that I haven't got a read on, due to only posting an RVS Vote is Mr. Wright.

Yes, I'm aware these are weak Town reads, however, back then they were better than nothing.

So take that peeps that thought I would actually lie about Town Reads. You lose all cookies.

Boberz's post is interesting. I'll need to read it a bit more, per se.

P.E.

Lateralus: He already said it. (b")b

[boberz]

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

Nobody can hide, and if you think I tunnelled you are so mistaken. Have you actually read the thread?

In other news... why are you still talking about yourself?

[moose200x]

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

Nobody can hide, and if you think I tunnelled you are so mistaken. Have you actually read the thread?

In other news... why are you still talking about yourself?

Narcissist complex. I will re-read the thread here in a bit, but so far Nothing! Has caught my eye realy. Like I said I don't really make anything of the hirka case cept for pressure and substrike seems scummy to me and boberz seems to be trying to look pro-town instead of being protown. Those might just be hidden OMGUS thoughts tho.

[Lateralus22]

Btw. this confirms Lateralus scum or Substrike scum. /animepun

Elaborate. Is this a serious point? I can't tell.

You have to change your tactics someday that you realize they don't work as efficiently anymore. Besides, surprise is the ultimate weapon.

Voting for a random person instead of someone you have suspicions on = More effective play?

First off, thank you for proving my point about Meta, since I was too lazy to care about it.

Prove what? That scum don't crack under pressure? Cuz yeah know… the link…

Second off, I just posted my opinions. I don't like pressure. Not my fault. I didn't start the fire. Of course, if I wanted to get rid of it I could, but then I'd be scummy, no? (lolonlyscumcareaboutbeinscummy)

Why are you getting so sarcastic and nasty with your replies to me? This didn't happen before, does your personality change on a game-to-game basis?

[boberz]

Hiraki's still scum, too tired to explain.

where did I do this bolding stuff inside boberz' quote ocmpletely confusing people so they wrongly think boberz is contradicting himself..

Your iso post 3 and 4.

You are also clearly no reading as I said this earlier

Hiraki, please dont bold in my quotes, it is impossible to answer them in kind.

---

boberz seems to be trying to look pro-town instead of being protown.

Work with this for a sec. Explain why trying to look protown is scummy.

The fact you dont understand how trying to look protown is necessary for protown players explains why you always get wagonned.

[AntB]

@MrWright
[quote="AntB"A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.
He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.[/quote]
the ISO read after that was to reinforce the BS claim if anything.

@Hiraki

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I really can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

Actually MrWright voted for Ant_to_the_Max...

[AntB]

EBWODP so people dont get lost in the bad tagging
@MrWright

A simple "this is how I play" would have been adequate, instead he takes an over-defensive stance using all caps and using offensive language, this shows further crumbling under pressure IMO and shows me either this player is scum or a liability which could potentially work in the scums favour; either that or we have a clever Jester.
He has made no attempt to scumhunt and as others have said, seems to be focused on self-preservation. A defence would be nice instead of what I can only call random BS.

the ISO read after that was to reinforce the BS claim if anything.

@Hiraki

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I really can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

Actually MrWright voted for Ant_to_the_Max...[/quote]

[Hiraki]

Elaborate. Is this a serious point? I can't tell.

FFS. I put /animepun for a reason. You have a Ryuk Avatar, he has L.

LAUGH DAMNIT.

Voting for a random person instead of someone you have suspicions on = More effective play?

More effective RVS.

Why are you getting so sarcastic and nasty with your replies to me? This didn't happen before, does your personality change on a game-to-game basis?

I don't believe I was that nasty. I did increase the sarcasm in that post though a little, I won't lie.

Boberz, I have absolutely no clue what you're saying. I might be getting a bit tired, but honestly, what I just saw you write makes no sense to me.

@AntB: Touche. I did not even realize that. You and your Ant usernames screwin' up my town reads.

[boberz]

Boberz, I have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

reread it, it say what it was meant to say I missed one close bracket admittedly, and forgot to accredit the final quote to moose but apart from that the stuff at you is still at you.

Ie you caused massive confusion by bolding your own words in my posts. I asked you not to do it. You then claim no knowledge of having done it, and apparently have no knowledge of my response to it. So I concluded that you had not been reading.

[Hiraki]

Oh, okay. I see what you mean. I meant that I didn't do it after you asked me to, which I didn't. If I did I apologize, I made that wall specifically that way because of your request. I usually do bold in quotes. You can check my previous games for that.

[boberz]

I can completely believe you do normally bold inside quotes, but I am suggesting you should never do it. Because it causes confusion such like it did in this game, even after you had stopped doing it. But tbh I dont really care any more, it is not in any way scummy. I am nearly done my essay then I can go to bed. I cant wait.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I wasn't calling for his lynch, I was calling for more votes. There is a difference to me. When I say the guy needs rope, I want him dead. If I say I want pressure, I want him at L-2 or somewhere in the vicinity. Gets people talking, imo, and I wanted him talking. Plus Moos was ok with posting content-less posts and being sarcastic when we all had a pile of valid reasons building on him. I am and was hoping this would cause Moos to actually post something decent. It has not, and

now I'm calling for Moos to be lynched.

Bolded so there isn't confusion this time. (not sarcastic, promise) Also I agree with whoever (Hiraki or Boberz) said that Meta is a bad way to go. People can manipulate their playstyles knowing their meta will be looked at. He said he was scum. He needs to die. If they're going to come out and claim scum, that's extremely anti-town and unhelpful in any way. Moos needs rope.

I understand what you mean. Let's just call this a moot issue due to semantics. I just felt like saying those phrases

irritate

me.

Boberz, can you explain why we would need a 'distraction'? What's wrong with discussing Moose200x's behaviour? I agree his play is terrible, but we're getting a lot of nice responses from the other players about it. Like your own post 78. Why do you suddenly make a 180 turn? Do you consider sarcastic claims a scumtell?

So the town doesn't tunnel from the get go, or things don't get stale. And as other's mentioned, METAreasoning is not the most solid, but for me, it is enough to let him live now, but keep him were I can see him.

ANNNNDD yes, the joke claim makes me squirm in my seat too. I'm unsure how to treat that. (AClockworkMelon, if you are reading this, I want you to know you have really messed with my mind...hats off to you >_> *claps*)

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

Ooorrrrrr we could flush them out by watching your wagon.....just saying....
be mad after the game, not during.

And thank you Hiraki. I just wanted to know your thought process behind things.

Overall thoughts right now; Beefster is looking bad. Moose is in a "handle with care" area. Everyone else I am still working out, but thankfully some are leaning towards town.

[Substrike22]

Sub: No reason not to list town reads. The idea that they give scum a shopping list of people to night kill is silly. First, your town reads tend to be fairly obvious from your play. Second, the scum are trying to remove town's power roles as well.

Also, I felt that moose was fairly clearly being sarcastic when he made the "I am scum" comment. What gave you the impression that he wasn't?...

I disagree with this. I used to be a fan of the shopping lists, but I've seen what damage they can do in a few of my games, and I also view them as a bit of a scum tell depending on how they're presented. Agree to disagree? I'd be willing to concede to the Ryuk and ask Hiraki to share some of his reasoning for the D1 declaration of town reads, mainly due to the fact that I'd imagine that Hiraki's reads have shifted in some way by now.

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was

page 1

, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

Preview Edit

: Chronos is right, Town reads are tech. Though I'd say keep majority to yourself/not post empty claims of having them unless it's good to put them out.

Can you elaborate on "Town reads are tech"? Rest of post quoted as reasoning for agreeing with the push for Hiraki's information.

So substrike- Just to clarify right now. Do you think I am scum or do you think I am just anti-town?

Both. If I had to choose, severely anti-town. But, your OMGUS accusations aimed at Boberz and I are scummy at worst, a bad idea at best.

@ Boberz's, re post 109: (couldn't quote your block correctly for some reason):
1. I agree with your sentiment about the moose claiming scum thing
2. I'm calling for his lynch now, because before I just wanted pressure. Now he's in lynch territory. In terms of what turned me, I wasn't 100% sure with that first /confirm post. He's assumed an extremely poor position since then and it's time to get some rope.

@ Hiraki, I lol'd at the Death Note reference. I think this is made even funnier by the fact that we both have 22 at the end of our names, thus making my usual method of scanning for posts aimed at me rather confusing.