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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:17 pm

Post by Peabody »

Erratus Apathos wrote:
Peabody wrote:I'm still stumped at why Erratus called me 'nervous scum' after my first post. The reasoning behind the accusation is not immediately obvious to me, and I would really like to understand the nature of the accusation. Then, I can answer the accusation accordingly. Pine agreed with Erratus in post 27, so obviously they are seeing something I am not.
Your post about AMP's random vote was rather waffly, which is often an indicator of scum uncertain if it's a safe attack or not.
Thanks for answering my question. I wanted to reserve my judgment while I pointed out something out of the ordinary. I can see how my post looks waffly.
Pine wrote:Oh hey! WIFOM from Peabody!
I suppose it'd be WIFOM from your point of view, but that doesn't answer my question as to why you made it a point to agree to the Lucresia wagon while choosing to keep your 'pressure' vote on me. You just look inconsistent: keeping your single vote on me and calling it a 'pressure vote' while agreeing with another wagon. You acknowledged that you weren't aware you were the only person with a vote on me, but you couldn't have thought that there were more than only three votes on me at the time.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:46 pm

Post by Pine »

Apparently, there's only one scum in the games Peabody plays, because expressing suspicion of two people at once is suspicious.

I miscounted. I thought there were four at maximum, and two when I made the relevant comment. I'm satisfied where I am for now. Why so defensive to a single vote on you?
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:08 pm

Post by Peabody »

I was answering the accusation you and Erratus had on me. In my post asking your reasoning to vote me, I said that it was so 'I can answer the accusation accordingly'.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:33 pm

Post by Pine »

Started here, and has mounted since.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
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, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:06 pm

Post by ICEninja »

Valern wrote: Do you find people who don't post much to be scummy, ICE?
Slightly. I think it benefits scum more to say little and fly under the radar than it does town, and it benefits town more to stir up some waves than it does scum, to an extent. I'm not saying all lurkers are scum, but it is hard to root out scum during day 1 if people are lurking.

It also personally irritates me, as I take each and every game as a commitment, and if people aren't playing then it simply isn't fun.
AMP wrote: Do you subscribe to LaL then? Is there ever a time where a townie lying is justified?
I don't automatically lynch any liar, but I find lies to be huge scum tells. The bigger the lie, obviously, the bigger a scum tell it is. There are exceptions, such as what you stated, and cops might want to lie about their read on someone for a day if they want another night action before revealing etc, but most lies have absolutely no town motivation what-so-ever.

So if you lie, you'd better expect me to be quite suspicious.

Erratus's lie is very minor, so it isn't attracting lynchworthy suspicion from me, but it is still noteworthy in my eyes.
AMP wrote: is one of the most true statements I have seen in a while, large content-less posts are the hallmark of scummy play.
I find commenting on as little as possible an alternative effective scum strategy. I find clear, well thought out logical arguments with transparent thinking to be helpful to town. The better I can understand someone's thought processes, the better I can understand someone's true motives. If someone isn't posting enough thoughts on things, it makes me feel like they could be hiding something.

These are just different mindsets when playing, of course. I'm just a verbose person, and get along well with similarly verbose people. I have no problem playing with people who disagree with me on play style.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:05 pm

Post by Erratus Apathos »

Zodiark13 wrote:DRK, Lucresia, and Trendall have been prooded.
What about lynchking? He hasn't even posted!
ICEninja wrote:Erratus's lie is very minor, so it isn't attracting lynchworthy suspicion from me, but it is still noteworthy in my eyes.
so why you still voting me then
Do you want your possessions identified?
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:33 am

Post by AMP »

ICEninja wrote:
AMP wrote: is one of the most true statements I have seen in a while, large content-less posts are the hallmark of scummy play.
I find commenting on as little as possible an alternative effective scum strategy. I find clear, well thought out logical arguments with transparent thinking to be helpful to town. The better I can understand someone's thought processes, the better I can understand someone's true motives. If someone isn't posting enough thoughts on things, it makes me feel like they could be hiding something.

These are just different mindsets when playing, of course. I'm just a verbose person, and get along well with similarly verbose people. I have no problem playing with people who disagree with me on play style.
Oh, I'm not in anyway saying that large posts are bad, I personally enjoy writing long posts, what I'm saying is that one should be wary of posts that are really long but don't actually say anything or commit to anything. Scum love to write wall posts, where the end conclusion is "I don't know, he could be scum, or not". if you are town, you should commit to an opinion even if you are unsure of whether it is right or wrong. I mean the point of a long post is to explain why you came to a conclusion, not to write for the literary merit of your prose (if thats what you are here for you came to the wrong forum).
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:42 am

Post by Lucresia »

Sorry the weekend got busier than expected and I didn't have enough time to post. I should be able to make a substantial post my break at work tonight or after work (late tonight)
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:20 am

Post by Trendall »

Alright, sorry about that, I'm back. Hello everyone. I'm having a hard time with some stuff irl at the moment, so I may end up V/LA again at some point or another within the coming weeks. Having said that, I love playing this game, and will give it as much attention as I possibly can. If I feel like it's becoming a problem, I'll replace out. Your patience and understanding would be very much appreciated.

I did start writing down a big wall as I was reading along with the thread, but then found it wasn't really worth posting because a lot of times, I found something scummy, and then someone else would bring that thing up later on in the thread. So, everyone's being appropriately observant, which is nice. What I'd like to add to the Lucresia argument is this:
Lucresia wrote:You may not agree with a random vote but it doesn't make me scummy.
Nobody said it did. Defending against something that nobody ever accused you of in the first place reeks of paranoia, and does make you scummy. Also...
Lucresia wrote:A town player isn't allowed to be happy that main roles that help the town didn't get thrown out the window basically before the game really starts?
Of course you are allowed to be happy that a PR didn't get killed. However, it's you categorically making the decision to type that out and tell everyone which rings alarm bells. Once again, you're trying to defend against something that nobody actually accused you of.

---

However, I'm not entirely sold on the Lucresia case, I wanna see more from her before I make a decision on that one. I agree that RangeroftheNorth's #44 was an incredibly awkward post. To me it seemed like he was trying to imply that Erratus has made a gigantic scumslip, when he quite obviously hadn't. It's an especially weird post seeing as Ranger acknowledges that there's an alternative way to interpret that sentence which is quite obviously the right one in his post. I also don't like ICENinja voting Erratus for lying, when it was really really painfully obvious that Erratus was just joking. Accusing someone of 'lying' like that, especially when it's a joke and completely irrelevant is just such an easy argument for scum to construct. Same with 'you are acting slightly differently in this game then you are to another game'. People's behaviour changes over games for a multitude of different reasons, and again, pointing out 'contradictions' like this that are totally irrelevant is something that scum like to do from my experience.

I really wish I could add more, but it seems like all my points have already been covered
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:57 pm

Post by Lucresia »

I am unfamiliar with most of your play styles seeing I haven't played on this site since 2007, which also means you are unfamiliar with mine. A lot of your "scum tells" is just me explaining myself or what I am thinking. I do this whether I am town or mafia. Even some of your points may be valid as scum tells in certain players, however it does not depict everyone's playing style.

I know that I am town, and I would like to make some progress towards finding us some scum to lynch. I think we need to take a look at some of the people lurking. Although my lynchking vote was originally random, I am keeping my vote there. He has not even posted yet in this game and perhaps it is that he is busy, but until we get some sort of input from him my vote will stand.


There is a specific response I want to address. There were a few people saying I am "congratulating the doctor" by saying I am happy we didn't lose an important role. If I was mafia I would not say thank you to the doctor that saved the person I was trying to kill. I also do not know why you are assuming the doctor did save someone last night. Are you saying you have knowledge of multiple kill groups? If so, please elaborate. If not, then I am not sure why, if you feel I am mafia, I would be congratulating a doctor.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:17 pm

Post by RangeroftheNorth »

I've been waiting for that post for awhile Lucresia, but it doesn't actually deal with any of the reasons I'm voting for you. Saying that your just explaining what you're thinking doesn't negate scum tells. If it seems like you're trying to avoid annoying anyone, that seems suspicious to me whether that's just what you were thinking or not.

Saying that you know that you're town and that we should be focusing on finding scum is meaningless. We don't know that you're town, and we are trying to find scum. Right now, you seem like the most likely candidate to me. That's why I'm voting for you. I do think that the people lurking aren't helping the town, but that's mostly because they aren't giving us any information to analyze. I definitely think Lynchking should be prodded, and his absence is certainly anti-town, but I think its a null-tell at this point, not a scum-tell.

And no one has said that you were actually congratulating the doctor: what I, and others, have said, is that you expressing happiness that a power role wasn't killed is similar to congratulating the doctor, which is commonly seen as a scum tell. I explained that as clearly as I could in Post #42.

In short, I feel like you're trying to deflect the problems that we have without actually addressing them, by targeting someone who hasn't posted yet. Claiming that we should be focusing our attention on the people lurking is somewhat ironic considering that you went 3 days without posting while people were waiting for you to address their concerns about you.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:44 pm

Post by madenking »

Hey guys, I'm really sorry for the delay. I've had way to much on my plate the past few days. I'll be more active from here on out.

So far, I think the strongest arguments have been made for Lucresia by DRK and Erratus in post #37 & 43. I'm very much in agreement.

Vote: Lucresia
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:59 pm

Post by Lucresia »

Most of the cases against me are opinions on how I am speaking. I am not trying to deflect, I just don't really know what it is that you want me to address really. The only point I think anyone has had so far on me even seeming scummy has been ice's post concerning my reasoning for replying to his questions although I think they are pointless. I can see a few others have the same opinion as well, and as day 1, I see that it could have been the beginning to a lead on someone. I do sound after re-reading my post like I am trying too hard to not offend anyone. It isn't that I am doing that though, I just really don't mind answering the questions. On the other hand I also want to state my point that I do not think it helps us find scum. Ice though admittedly said that wasn't his purpose for it, that it was for his own knowledge, so end of discussion really.

I hadn't posted in three days due to overtime at work on Friday and an unexpected busy weekend with family. I have more overtime tomorrow and probably won't get much time to post tomorrow but will try to post on my lunch break.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:01 pm

Post by Lucresia »

Also,
Unvote
since lynchking appears to have arrived now.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:42 pm

Post by Fenhl »

Vote Count 1.3
Lucresia5DeathRowKittyErratus ApathosRangeroftheNorthValernlynchking
Erratus Apathos2AMPICEninja
Peabody1Pine
Pine1Romanus
Spoiler: more info
Not voting: Trendall, Peabody, Lucresia
With 12 living players, a majority consists of 7 votes.
The current deadline is Apr 8 17:30.
Last edited by Fenhl on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:13 pm

Post by Pine »

UNVOTE: Peabody

Vote isn't being useful, case is stale, and Peabody hasn't said anything incriminating (or much of anything at all) in a while.

I'll re-read the thread in the morning and assess whether the Lucresia wagon merits an L-1 vote or whether I want to pressure someone else.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

I think I said I'd catch up on this game yesterday, but obviously I didn't. Will catch up this game later today. /sailor's promise
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:03 pm

Post by Trendall »

Lucresia wrote:Most of the cases against me are opinions on how I am speaking.
You realise that's like, the entire objective of the game, right? Observe how people are speaking and form an opinion on which alignment they are.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Post by Trendall »

Lucresia wrote:I know that I am town
I swear that experienced players don't say this.
Lucresia wrote: I think we need to take a look at some of the people lurking.
"Hey guys. Stop looking at me, there's nothing to see here. Go look at those guys instead. They're really easy targets."
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:10 am

Post by Lucresia »

Trendall wrote:
Lucresia wrote:Most of the cases against me are opinions on how I am speaking.
You realise that's like, the entire objective of the game, right? Observe how people are speaking and form an opinion on which alignment they are.
Well, heh, yes I do. I apologize, and please allow me to be more clear (I think my lack of sleep is starting to get to me). When I type, I tend to type the way I am thinking, kind of like someone rambling. So it seems like I maybe being over wordy or perhaps thinking about something you think I might not say if I were town, but really I am thinking it so I say it. So when you come at me nitpicking a way I talk such as sounding paranoid, unfortunately I kind of sound that way as scum or town. At any point I do not expect to live through the day so I want to clarify further my direct claim that I am town and do not have any special abilities other than my lynch vote. I recommend that if I do die, today you take a look at the people who end up hammering this bandwagon.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:57 am

Post by Valern »

If you're town, prove it. Start scumhunting. So far, you saying "hey guys, we should be looking for scum" followed by you not doing anything of the sort is just adding to your scumminess.

In the meantime, moar Lucresia votes please.

(Side note: I actually think lynchking might be a possible partner for Lucresia. He comes in, says nothing about anything except (hypothetically) bussing his buddy, and Lucresia decides he's not worth pursuing because, oops, he's said something. I would think if either of them were town Lucresia would be more inclined to push him harder for saying almost nothing. This obviously isn't a very strong case at all yet and I wouldn't be willing to vote lynchking based on this and nothing else even if Lucresia flips scum, but I'll be keeping an eye on him.)
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:27 am

Post by ICEninja »

Goodness, this is a mess. It is page 4, Lucresia has fallen apart and claimed at L-2, Valern is asking for more votes on her, and more than 1 would be a lynch.

Lucresia is indeed making a lot of posts and saying absolutely zero relevant things in them. I don't like this. That being said, I don't want to put someone at L-1 on page 4. We've got a player who has a grand total of 1 in his post count, and several players who have contributed little or nothing to the game so far.

I actually don't like lynchking's vote at all. He shows up, and the
only
thing he comments on is agreeing with the leading bandwagon. Sounds pretty opportunistic to me.

Unvote, vote lynchking
.

Lucresia, stop this...whatever it is you're doing, and find scum. If you are scum, go ahead and continue to post zero content posts.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:35 am

Post by Trendall »

Lucresia, why on earth did you claim?
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:23 am

Post by Romanus »

I've never liked this Lucresia wagon, still don't. I believe she claimed due to frustration.

Unvote

I have found someone I believe to be more scummy
Vote: ICEninja


Seems to support the Lucresia wagon but is keeping a bad vote on Erratus.
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:37 am

Post by Trendall »

Yep

VOTE: ICENinja

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