Dr Who - Game over

[Hoppster]

So why no vote, Zang?

Why not ask CES the same question?

Vote: Zang

This is pinging my scumdar a little bit. Zang has acknowledged the wagon on him, but then he doesn't pay any attention to who is on it. I would expect town to be looking more carefully at the people on the bandwagon, whereas scum would just look more generally at the number of people on the wagon.

I'm not really sure what your argument with Hoppster is about. I understand how it started but it seems like your just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Did the argument help give you a read on either of us?

The Zang wagon didn't need any help. Counter wagon was Meh. No funny reasons why I should join or incentive. I thought I would make my own with the condemning evidence I had

Only other player I know is rat, but I will have to go back and look at that game to really remember him.

Ohey, your RVS vote is still on me.

What do you want to get out of your RVS vote on me that hasn't already happened?

Why have you said nothing useful or non-RVS related so far at all?

Have you even read the thread?

Anyways, I think all this dialogue between Surye and Hoppster is just a bunch of meaningless noise, and the wagons were not useful at all other than clumsily getting us out of RVS.

Meaningless noise? Did it not help further any reads on either of us?

What about the dialogue between Nexus and I?

Is that why you didn't vote on either of the wagons - they were too 'clumsy' for your liking?

What exactly do you want to get or are you looking to get out of your GMan vote?


My gut is telling me this is a scum-post where pappums-scum has read Nexus' posts about people not commenting on wagons and pappums-scum resultingly felt it necessary to post some comment on the wagons. The opinion of "the wagons were clumsy" just seems really... feigned.

In other news: I'm of two minds about Hoppster, need to see more to judge.

Hoppster and Nexus is probably a townie fight, with an outside chance of Hoppsterscum using questions to confuse the town. That's a very outside shot though.

What helped you to judge?


UNVOTE: Zang
VOTE: Ant

You suck.

FoS: Zang, pappums

[iamausername]

Nexus is super obvious town.
Tar is totally right about Surye.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No PR.

[SnakePlissken]

3 pages already. Hate being late to the party and for the record I would have voted on the Zang wagon. In fact I will

VOTE: Zang

Hello to all I have played with before, special wave to Nexus.

RVS Questions

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

[Hoppster]

Nexus is super obvious town.
Tar is totally right about Surye.

Is he totally right about Zang's reaction being town?

3 pages already. Hate being late to the party and for the record I would have voted on the Zang wagon. In fact I will

VOTE: Zang

Hello to all I have played with before, special wave to Nexus.

RVS Questions

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

Is that vote random or do you think he's scummy?

Have you fully caught up?


1. Since November 26 2010 (when I replaced into my first [Newbie] game). My Wiki page is usually up-to-date.

2. I don't count... but do you mean used as in 'called out' by other people, or used as in 'scum used it'?

3. Winston Churchill.


What have you learnt from my answers?


UNVOTE: Ant
VOTE: SnakePlissken

(FoS: Ant)

You've basically dodged saying anything at all, much like our good friend Ant.

However, you're also jumping on a wagon without any reasoning at all, and we're at a stage where you have plenty to work off.

I'd also say we're out of RVS, and the RVS Questions seem unnecessary, useless, and counter-productive.

[MagnaofIllusion]

CES is being his usual useless self but I find myself agreeing with most of his FOSes.

Hoppster is incredibly annoying to read. He constant refrain of “What reaction did you expect to get” is rather useless when he’s pre-empted the actual reactions from some players (Zang for example) with his questions. He’s peppered Nexus with a number of hypothetical questions that don’t serve any serious scum-hunting (“Would you put Zang at L-2 if he was at L-3?’) but more as a means to produce as “Gotcha, inconsistency” attack.

--

I'm guessing he's a traitor again.

Innocent in-joke regarding a former game or covert attempt to reach out to a suspected traitor disguised as an in-joke?

Let me mull.

--

Oooooh, Counter-wagons are fun.

Then why didn’t you try to start one as opposed to mindlessly wagoning along?

--

This just happened in my other ongoing game...If I find out what it means, I will let you know

How does something going on in a DIFFERENT game have any relevance to the quick wagon on Zang.

--

Me, I think it's null... or, unhelpful perhaps. They're certainly not helping, but I don't believe it's a scum-tell.

It is only a scum-tell if Zang is not scum. Scum have no reason to poke at the ‘beehive’ of a quick L-2 RVS wagon on Town. Town on the other hand (assuming Zang is Town) have every reason to question it.

So those who dodged commenting on the wagon are more likely to be scum if Zang is Town.

--

Why not ask CES the same question?

When Hoppster asked you why you didn’t vote CES had an active vote – it is on you.

I'm shocked about how many people hate me, I'm angry that I missed RVS and im surprised that i can have such a big effect on the game without even posting but other than that I have no opinion on it.

1. How do you get ‘hate’ out of an RVS wagon? What players specifically hate you?
2. Why are you angry that you ‘missed’ RVS?
3. You have no opinion on the wagon? If I was Town and arrived to find a L-2 wagon on me Page 2 I’d certainly have an opinion of some sort.

--

Seeing a FIVE-vote wagon in a Mini game RVS was a bit of a surprise to me - I think there's got to be scum somewhere on that bandwagon. I'll keep it in mind for later.

That only holds true if Zang is Town. Do you think he is?

1. What do you think of Zang’s “I’ve got no opinion” statement?
2. You were the third vote on said five person wagon. Ostensibly you know you are Town. What was your reasoning for further pushing the wagon?

Hoppster and Nexus is probably a townie fight, with an outside chance of Hoppsterscum using questions to confuse the town. That's a very outside shot though.

Zang tell detected. If Hoppster and Nexus are both Town Tar is possible scum.

--

3 pages already. Hate being late to the party and for the record I would have voted on the Zang wagon. In fact I will

Why? Detailed answers please.

RVS Questions

There is no purpose to RVS questions other than busywork at this stage. You should have been filling your post with observations.

--

TL DR Summary –

Early gut / reaction reads of possible scum on Zang, Snake and Ant.

Tar, Hoppster and Pappums sit as relational possibilities.

Vote will stay with Zang.

[Ant_to_the_max]

First and foremost
ITT:

VOTE: Ant

You suck.

Hey there. I think someone needs to chill out.
It is called work man >__> Also, I think it is best to remember that, from what it looks like, we might be split on which part of the world we all live in.

Have you even read the thread?

Yes. Multiple times. It was really annoying with the part where you were talking...asking some pointless questions. I will give you that some were good, but come on...some were uncalled for

Stupid.

If I thought it was that scummy I would've put a vote down. Considering one of the three who is ignoring the counterwagon on him, I don't need to change my vote.

What's your opinion then?

Wait, so do you think it's scummy or not then? You imply you don't think it's scummy (and would change your vote if you thought it was) but then say that you don't need to change your vote because it's already on one of them (implying that you would have changed your vote, and thus you thought it was scummy).

Me, I think it's null... or, unhelpful perhaps. They're certainly not helping, but I don't believe it's a scum-tell.

Like this one. I thought he was pretty clear when he answered it the first time.

Although, I do have to admit you are getting the game started and creating content. meh.
UNVOTE:

I am also not feeling this wagon on Surye yet either. He seems to passive? Is it because he is just answering questions directed at him and not retorting with questions back?

This just happened in my other ongoing game...If I find out what it means, I will let you know

How does something going on in a DIFFERENT game have any relevance to the quick wagon on Zang.

Because I was trying to make a witty comment. A quick wagon built up on another guy in another ongoing game of mine. It made me think of that.

Me, I think it's null... or, unhelpful perhaps. They're certainly not helping, but I don't believe it's a scum-tell.

It is only a scum-tell if Zang is not scum. Scum have no reason to poke at the ‘beehive’ of a quick L-2 RVS wagon on Town. Town on the other hand (assuming Zang is Town) have every reason to question it.

So those who dodged commenting on the wagon are more likely to be scum if Zang is Town.

Wait...so are you saying "If Zang is town, the people who didn't 'poke the beehive' are scum, and that other townies would have 'poked the beehive'"?

[pappums rat]

Hoppster is incredibly annoying to read. He constant refrain of “What reaction did you expect to get” is rather useless when he’s pre-empted the actual reactions from some players (Zang for example) with his questions. He’s peppered Nexus with a number of hypothetical questions that don’t serve any serious scum-hunting (“Would you put Zang at L-2 if he was at L-3?’) but more as a means to produce as “Gotcha, inconsistency” attack.

I agree with this statement. All Hoppster's questions thus far have been rather unnecessary and/or forced, and IMO it kind of sounds like he is trying to sound like he has a lot to say rather than actually having a lot to say.

I'm guessing he's a traitor again.

Innocent in-joke regarding a former game or covert attempt to reach out to a suspected traitor disguised as an in-joke?

Let me mull.

This is a reference to Mini 1120, the last game I played with GMan, where he was the Traitor and I was on the scumteam. Jason also modded that game.

[Hoppster]

Hoppster is incredibly annoying to read.

Do you mean annoying to read as in you just find my posts plain irritating to look at, or that you can't get a read on me?

Hoppster and Nexus is probably a townie fight, with an outside chance of Hoppsterscum using questions to confuse the town. That's a very outside shot though.

Zang tell detected. If Hoppster and Nexus are both Town Tar is possible scum.

I don't get it.


Ant: In your 'multiple' readings of the thread, have you gathered any ideas of who might be scum?


P-Edit:

Hoppster is incredibly annoying to read. He constant refrain of “What reaction did you expect to get” is rather useless when he’s pre-empted the actual reactions from some players (Zang for example) with his questions. He’s peppered Nexus with a number of hypothetical questions that don’t serve any serious scum-hunting (“Would you put Zang at L-2 if he was at L-3?’) but more as a means to produce as “Gotcha, inconsistency” attack.

I agree with this statement. All Hoppster's questions thus far have been rather unnecessary and/or forced, and IMO it kind of sounds like he is trying to sound like he has a lot to say rather than actually having a lot to say.

This sounds pretty damning. Why aren't you voting me?

[pappums rat]

^ Because I'm RVS'ing GMan, and will continue to do so until I am ready to leave RVS.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I was trying to make a witty comment.

I have no issue with being witty in context of a game relevant post.

But here you chose to be witty just for its own sake, which means you were just fluffing. I’m not a big fan of fluff.

Wait...so are you saying "If Zang is town, the people who didn't 'poke the beehive' are scum, and that other townies would have 'poked the beehive'"?

Summary – if Zang is Town (which I am not sold on at all currently) then scum are more likely to be found in those who either jumped on the Zang wagon or made some RVS vote with no comment at all about the Zang wagon (note that this does not include playes who specifically said they were Counterwagoning). That’s my take and thinking on the matter which I am not going to dwell on until we see a Zang flip.

--

This is a reference to Mini 1120, the last game I played with GMan, where he was the Traitor and I was on the scumteam. Jason also modded that game.

Oh I understand the reference. I read along with that game. I’m just noting my immediate gut reaction when I saw it – possible reaching out to Traitor disguised as RVS fluff. I did the something similar when I was replaced into LMP’s KGM Mini Normal when I tried to contact DGB in thread.

^ Because I'm RVS'ing GMan, and will continue to do so until I am ready to leave RVS.

RVS is not some separate part of the game that is independent from the rest. The notion of RVS is just the name we give to that awkward getting things rolling portion of the game.

That you want to cling to a vote that has no game relevant meaning in your eyes and not vote someone you specifically called scummy is very suspect.

--

Do you mean annoying to read as in you just find my posts plain irritating to look at, or that you can't get a read on me?

Annoying as making getting a good read on you difficult. My gut on reading your posts were scummy based on what I followed up with in that quote. That said I am fully congnizent it may be your natural playstyle that I am not familiar with.

I don't get it.

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In this case Tar calling your conflict with Nexus as T v T on page 3 is noteworthy to me. Since it is purely relational I noted it as opposed to developing it further.

--

[pappums rat]

RVS is not some separate part of the game that is independent from the rest. The notion of RVS is just the name we give to that awkward getting things rolling portion of the game.

That you want to cling to a vote that has no game relevant meaning in your eyes and not vote someone you specifically called scummy is very suspect.

Yes, I can understand why you would think that. I let my frustration with another game spill into this one and was pissed that this game took off so fast with the Hoppster/Surye dialogue. I did find Hoppster somewhat suspicious, but I wasnt going to let him detract from my fun in RVS. Once GMan replies in thread, I probably will vote for someone I find scummy, but not until then. :stubborn:

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

1. Played from 2005-2008. Came back early 2010.
2. Uh yeah, I'm not going to tell the scum what behaviour I pay extra attention to.
3. The weeping angels.

[Tarhalindur]

I'll respond to questions/etc. when I have a bit more time, but this needs to be dealt with now:

3 pages already. Hate being late to the party and for the record I would have voted on the Zang wagon. In fact I will

VOTE: Zang

Hello to all I have played with before, special wave to Nexus.

RVS Questions

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

Yeah, let's just go for an RVS tactic that tends to favor scum, and include a question that helps scum both avoid being caught and frame scummy townies, I DON'T THINK.

Surye can wait for a bit.

Unvote, Vote: SnakePlissken

You have approximately one post to explain why the hell you would make this kind of post as town, let alone after the end of RVS as evidenced by the game posts last page. Go.

[Zang]

People hating you? Can't speak for the rest of the people voting you, but I wanted a large early bandwagon to force people to take sides early, and you happened to be a convenient target.

1. How do you get ‘hate’ out of an RVS wagon? What players specifically hate you?

The "people hating me" part was sort of a joke.

This is pinging my scumdar a little bit. Zang has acknowledged the wagon on him, but then he doesn't pay any attention to who is on it. I would expect town to be looking more carefully at the people on the bandwagon, whereas scum would just look more generally at the number of people on the wagon.

Ok, I forgot CES was on my wagon. But why should I pay attention to it? Even more so, how am I supposed to pay attention to it? It's just an RVS wagon. I don't even see how I'm paying attention to the number of people on it. As long as it doesn't get up to L-1 and everybody unvotes then I have no opinion on it.

Did the argument help give you a read on either of us?

No, why should it have?

Why have you said nothing useful or non-RVS related so far at all?

I'm not ant but it may be because it was only on page 2.

No PR.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

Also

FoS: iamusername

1. How long have people been playing MS here?
2. What is the most commonly used scum tell that you have seen?
3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

Minor FoS: SnakePlissken

Did you just miss the past 2 pages of scumhunting. Either way-

1. A year and a half although I recently took about a two month break.
2. Active lurking
3. The ood are my favorite but the daleks have the best episodes. The weeping angels scared me the most. The silence are also very interesting.

Innocent in-joke regarding a former game or covert attempt to reach out to a suspected traitor disguised as an in-joke?

Do you find everything scummy?

2. Why are you angry that you ‘missed’ RVS?

I like RVS.

3. You have no opinion on the wagon? If I was Town and arrived to find a L-2 wagon on me Page 2 I’d certainly have an opinion of some sort.

Why should I have an opinion on it? What sort of opinion am I supposed to have on it? IT WAS JUST RVS! It was reasonless, it gives me no insight on who is scum and who isn't and it was completely random.

ITT:

I completely agree.

RVS is not some separate part of the game that is independent from the rest. The notion of RVS is just the name we give to that awkward getting things rolling portion of the game.

I disagree. RVS is a separate part of the game. The point of it though is to get the real game started.

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

You have no way of knowing that. Things always look more obvious if you know what's going on. This is "informed minority" at its most basic.

[Zang]

It’s a throwback to ooba’s Smalltown Stardust Mafia. Jack and I got into a heated battle regarding some non-sense attack by him very early. Zang cruised in and called it a Town versus Town conflict. I very much see people calling early game interactions T v T without significant play to base it on as fairly effective scum-tell. I call it my Zang Tell because he’s the one who made it stand out in my mind.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

You have no way of knowing that. Things always look more obvious if you know what's going on. This is "informed minority" at its most basic.

I knew it was town vs town because I was scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

That's the point?

[Zang]

My point was more this.-

my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I disagree. RVS is a separate part of the game. The point of it though is to get the real game started.

Feel free to disagree. You are still dead wrong. RVS is as valid a part of the game as any other. Scum have and will continue to be caught during RVS.

Why should I have an opinion on it? What sort of opinion am I supposed to have on it? IT WAS JUST RVS! It was reasonless, it gives me no insight on who is scum and who isn't and it was completely random

1. You are saying that the first five people to post and vote in this game just happen to randomly select you? Tar’s post alone where he RVS voted you and prompted discussion of that fact should clearly indicate there was more to it than complete randomness … Tar had clear intent to drive discussion.
2. You should, if Town, have some opinion about who might be the scum on that wagon. Because if you are Town that means odds are good that at least 1 scum is there.

In that game, it was a town vs town battle though and my alignment had very little to do with me calling it town vs town.

Are you seriously writing this? It had EVERYTHING to do with you calling it a Town v Town battle. YOU KNEW IT WAS. Please don’t pretend that had you not been scum your opinion would have been exactly the same. Every uniformed majority player in that game had an opinion about who was or was not scum between Jack and I.

[Zang]

Feel free to disagree. You are still dead wrong. RVS is as valid a part of the game as any other. Scum have and will continue to be caught during RVS.

Any scum lynched because of the RVS is either because of chance or their stupidity.

1. You are saying that the first five people to post and vote in this game just happen to randomly select you? Tar’s post alone where he RVS voted you and prompted discussion of that fact should clearly indicate there was more to it than complete randomness … Tar had clear intent to drive discussion.

No, some did it to start discussion which I do consider to be a random vote because it could just as easily have been you or anybody else.

2. You should, if Town, have some opinion about who might be the scum on that wagon. Because if you are Town that means odds are good that at least 1 scum is there.

You could randomly pick any 5 people in this game and odds are good that at least 1  scum is on there and that is pretty much what you are doing. You are right, I could analyze and study those who voted for me but anything can be made to seem scummy. I would just be randomly choosing one of those. If there was anything obviously scummy then yes I would have pointed it out but there isn't. No matter how much I kid myself with elaborate and complex reasons, that one scum tell could just as well be town. I could say things like "he voted him as a RVS bus so he's scum" and I could say things like "he voted him and he's town so that makes him scum." or I could say that "He voted for him because it's a wagon and he wanted to gain town points so he is scum. All of those, I have seen as reasons to vote people. Meanwhile though scum is probably doing this "I'm going to vote him because I don't like him/played games with him before/other random reason". I really think that scum and town are more alike than you think.

Are you seriously writing this? It had EVERYTHING to do with you calling it a Town v Town battle. YOU KNEW IT WAS. Please don’t pretend that had you not been scum your opinion would have been exactly the same. Every uniformed majority player in that game had an opinion about who was or was not scum between Jack and I.

Yes, all the uniformed players but the lurkers didn't. At that point I was lurking pretty hard. The lurking as well as me calling it town vs town was actually because I was uninterested in the game and to lazy to properly analyze your posts because they were so boring. It had absolutely no relation to me being scum and anything I do rarely does except when claiming and possibly when only three players are left.

[pappums rat]

All this talk about inspecting the wagons for scum is bullshit. It's RVS, people can claim any reason they want for voting someone in RVS, and no one would be any the wiser as to who is who unless someone makes a big dumb mistake, which probably isnt going to happen when the people in question are experienced players. That kind of scumhunting technique is better suited for looking into newer players.

Since GMan isnt here, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote
Vote: Hoppster

for making more out of this bullshit than what is reasonably concievable, and because his dialogue with Surye on his end rang hollow to me.

Minor FOS

on MoI for reading too damn far into RVS votes.

[iamausername]

Nexus is super obvious town.
Tar is totally right about Surye.

Is he totally right about Zang's reaction being town?

On the whole, I'm getting town vibes from Zang, but I wouldn't say that his reaction to his wagon was a particularly great source of them. So, kinda.

I am also not feeling this wagon on Surye yet either. He seems to passive? Is it because he is just answering questions directed at him and not retorting with questions back?

No, it's because he is answering them with "meh, I'll do something later"

3. Favoroite Doctor Who Monster?

fuck the haters, the 80s was the best time for Who.

P.S.

I am also not feeling this wagon on Surye

yet

either.

Unvote

VOTE: Ant_to_the_max

[Hoppster]

Why have you [Ant] said nothing useful or non-RVS related so far at all?

I'm not ant but it may be because it was only on page 2.

[...]

Did you [SnakePlissken] just miss the past 2 pages of scumhunting

Say whaaaa?

Ant's post #46
SP's post #53

Why are you defending Ant's lack of content and then attacking SP's lack of content?

Anyways, I think all this dialogue between Surye and Hoppster is just a bunch of meaningless noise

Unvote
Vote: Hoppster

for making more out of this bullshit than what is reasonably concievable, and because his dialogue with Surye on his end rang hollow to me.

Umm.

1) What "bullshit" exactly?
2) Uhh, you said that the "dialogue between Surye and Hoppster is just a bunch of meaningless noise". Now I was being hollow?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It had absolutely no relation to me being scum and anything I do rarely does except when claiming and possibly when only three players are left.

This claim is laughable. No matter how good you are at being scum, there is always going to be a difference and you're deluding yourself if you think you're an exception.

We should totally lynch Zang.