Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[Twistedspoon]

Well the reason to lynch him would be the fact that he's acting scummy, just because I'm having doubts that he could be a townie doesn't mean I don't think he's more likely to be scum. Besides I have no one scummier to vote for. How is asking the plague why he didn't vote for someone for whom he made a case against scummy?

1) 'acting scummy' is the sort of thing I'd expect skimreading scum to say. It's vague. I don't like it
2) no one is scummier to vote for doesn't cut it either. 'well the rest of you aren't acting scummy, I'll vote for TS. He must be scum'
I also don't like how you say no-one else has been scummy. What are the 3 scummiest things you've seen so far not from myself? If you say there aren't any I shall be annoyed

I don't like this response at all
I had a third point but I must admit I forgot it

VOTE: Kalofer

[Morthas]

Ouff, hangover... post later

[Hoppster]

Day 1, Votecount 6

theplague42 - 0

[L - 5]

Twistedspoon - 3

[L - 2]

(implosion, Kalofer, theplague42)

Kalofer - 4

[L - 1] (Wickedestjr, don_johnson, Oopidstay, Twistedspoon)

Morthas - 0

[L - 5]

Juls - 0

[L - 5]

implosion - 1

[L - 4]

(Morthas)

Wickedestjr - 1

[L - 4]

(Juls)

don_johnson - 0

[L - 5]

Oopidstay - 0

[L - 5]

No Lynch - 0

[L - 5]

Not Voting - 0

Deadline: Wednesday June 15th at 21:00 BST

Time left:

(expired on 2011-06-15 16:00:00)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Wickedestjr is V/LA Friday-Sunday.

Activity is great, guys!

[theplague42]

Wow that Kalofer wagon built up fast. Back at 2 or so.

[Twistedspoon]

maybe

but I quite like this wagon. I think we may have mafioso here

[Kalofer]

2 scummy things apart from yourself would be Morthas lurking and Wicked still not explaining his vote for me, or suspicion of oopid for that matter (there is no 3rd).

[Juls]

I

seriously

don't like the way the Kalofer wagon formed so quickly and TS/Oopid votes look really really bad. TS more so but I am not ready to put him at L-1 yet so

Unvote

,

FoS: TS

[Juls]

EBWOP: Actually, I don't want to unvote because I still have suspicion of Wicked.

Vote: Wicked

[Twistedspoon]

using speed of a wagon as a scumtell? well I think we may have scum here and it looks like 3 others agree with me.

If I think I've got scum I vote them. Everything else is second place. I don't see why I shouldn't vote for my prime suspect just because their wagon is growing fast

[Juls]

There are lots of reasons not to put someone at L-1 so quickly. For one, they could self-hammer before we had a chance to keep talking. Scum could hammer them before we got a claim. Some bad townie could come along and hammer them before we got a claim. It's page 5, I don't see how any of you could be so dead set on him being scum from two comments that were not lynchable in-of-themselves.

[implosion]

Twistedspoon: is it a coincidence that your main suspects are Kalofer and I (the first two people that voted you) or would you say that you suspect us for having voted you?

[Morthas]

UNVOTE:

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back from V/LA. Catching up now.

[Morthas]

@Wicked: I don't like how you say Kalofer and Oopid are scum, never folow it up, debate/talk with Twisted where you DON'T think he's scum (point being you don't ask Kalofer/Oopid a single question) (FoS doesn't count, since you already stated who you think are scum and are voting for them which says you are convinced)

@implosion- which allignment do you enjoy the most: town or scum?

Strikes me as a way to try and not look like you are focusing on Twisted completely

Come to think of it,

Twisted could be his usual townie self

but I'm not in the mood of letting go of scummy actions which lack justification. I'll keep my vote where it is for now. Plague, you've clearly focused your attention on TS, so why no vote for him?

Is that because of meta or did you mean to say that you have mixed reads on him?

using speed of a wagon as a scumtell? well I think we may have scum here and it looks like 3 others agree with me.

If I think I've got scum I vote them. Everything else is second place. I don't see why I shouldn't vote for my prime suspect just because their wagon is growing fast

I don't like Twisted's attempt to justify the danger of the day ending, it's common sense why ending the day so fast would be bad for town

@Oopid: How do you from being ready to vote implosion to wagonjumping/sheeping to Kalofer?

I'm not sure who to vote..

P-Edit: Wicked is back so im giving him a chance to explain,
There is too much WIFOM on Twisted for now so
VOTE: Oopid

[Twistedspoon]

There are lots of reasons not to put someone at L-1 so quickly. For one, they could self-hammer before we had a chance to keep talking. Scum could hammer them before we got a claim. Some bad townie could come along and hammer them before we got a claim. It's page 5, I don't see how any of you could be so dead set on him being scum from two comments that were not lynchable in-of-themselves.

self-hammering

I won't even consider it. If a townie in this game self hammers then I'll make them play newbie games for life. If a mafioso self hammers then what's the problem (aside from a shorter day)

if anyone hammered it would also make them look very scummy and I don't think scum would take that risk

I like my vote on kalofer and the growth of his wagon won't make me find him any less scummy today.
I do see that ending the day this early is bad though

Twistedspoon: is it a coincidence that your main suspects are Kalofer and I (the first two people that voted you) or would you say that you suspect us for having voted you?

I suspect you a lot less when I realised my vote on you was completely wrong and I had my chronology mixed up. kalofer is still scummy though.

I don't like Twisted's attempt to justify the danger of the day ending, it's common sense why ending the day so fast would be bad for town

I was trying to justify my vote on kalofer, not the day ending.
I realise that an early night is the last thing we want

[Wickedestjr]

[1: This reads as if you are going to piggyback someone elses argument.]

[2:If you have evidence, present it. I can think of no reason to keep this information to yourself.]

1:

Setting up to piggyback an argument that hadn't been made yet? How could I know that someone would attack Kalofer or Oopidstay after I did? This point doesn't make any sense and for that reason I don't know how to defend against it.

2:

I can think of several reasons:
A. Not giving my reasons means that I get to see who will actually agree with my suspicion without piggybacking my reasoning.
B. I believe that not giving any reasons increases the amount of pressure: the person that has been voted doesn't know how strongly I suspect them or why. All they do know is that I suspect them.

I.

I'm curious about this comment. According to your join date, you have been playing mafia longer than I have. I find it hard to believe that you haven't encountered reasonless suspicions from town before.

Wait, I thought Kaloofer and Oopid were scum? Surely you don't think its 3 scum in a 9 player game?

unvote, vote wicked

Somethings not jiving here....

I don't think there are three scum in this game (my guess would be that there are two), but I also never said Twistedspoon was scum. In addition, there's no way I could know for certain that Kalofer and Oopidstay are scum at this stage, so of course I could be wrong. Just because I say I believe two players are scum doesn't mean I can't find another player's actions strange.

II.

I think this is a really weak point.

Also, good posting by plague.

III.

This seems like a strange comment to make coming from you. I'm not saying I disagree with the comment, but considering you had

just

been voting implosion for buddying, this seems a bit hypocritical. Especially since you seem to disagree with him on a few reads.

IV.

Now that Juls has answered my question directed at her, I think that her previous vote for Oopidstay seems a bit suspicious. Voting somebody because they self voted isn't suspicious alone, but considering that she kept her vote on him even after she acknowledged that he hadn't encountered any self votes in his previous games, I find it a bit strange.

FoS: Juls

for

I, II, III,

&

IV

.

More later.

[Juls]

Seriously Wicked? You are going to

leave Kaloofer at L-1 without ANY REASON

?!?!?!?! You have a VOTE on someone with no reason and said someone else is scum and Fos'd another person. That's 4 people you suspect ON PAGE 5 and the one person you have your vote is one that you don't have any evidence against (that you have presented). Your post above is a bunch of B.S. None of the reasons you list says I am scum but I will address all of them nonetheless.

I.) I have encountered reasonless suspicion from town, sure, but what I dislike here is that you are calling two people scum WITH NO REASON and then FoSing someone else WITH reason. Now, you have done it again in this post. I have also seen scum vote one person and express suspicion on the other. The person who gets the suspicion but not the vote then turns out to be his scumbuddy.

II.) See above.

III.) What implosion did was take a guy that was getting pressured and start defending him and saying he was town. If implosion is scum he was taking the opportunity to 1) buddy someone who has pressure and thus win over his confidence in him as town and 2) Get to say "told you so" when the flip happens. It looked like buddying. What I am doing here is pointing out a good post by someone. That's not buddying. If it had been someone I suspected as scum that posted that I would probably say "shit...that's good posting, now I have to reconsider my read". It's not a strange comment. You can look in 90% of the games on this site and see that comment. What I see here from you is reaching.

IV.) I kept my vote on Oopid BECAUSE he hadn't encountered self votes in another game. It removes the argument that he was doing it for reaction testing (which I still don't buy). He would only have done that if he had seen that done before. Otherwise it looked like scum who didn't know that it was bad to self vote.

I am

VERY HAPPY

with my vote and encourage others to join in.

[Twistedspoon]

on the one hand

I.) I have encountered reasonless suspicion from town, sure, but what I dislike here is that you are calling two people scum WITH NO REASON and then FoSing someone else WITH reason. Now, you have done it again in this post. I have also seen scum vote one person and express suspicion on the other. The person who gets the suspicion but not the vote then turns out to be his scumbuddy.

makes a lot of sense

on the other hand I just can't see wicked scum naming a scumteam on what was like his first post. Making 2 enemies from post 1 would not be a smart move at all for wickedscum, especially without giving reasons.

I think Wicked is town

[Juls]

And I think you two are scum together.

[Twistedspoon]

All I'm saying is that if wicked's scum he's playing very bold

[Twistedspoon]

I thought I'd get criticised for having a town read on him

[Twistedspoon]

what do you think of Kalofer, Juls? (wagon speed aside)

[Juls]

He is null-leaning town. Null because I don't see what he said as being all that scummy and leaning town based on the speed of his wagon.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked: I don't like how you say Kalofer and Oopid are scum, never folow it up, debate/talk with Twisted where you DON'T think he's scum (point being you don't ask Kalofer/Oopid a single question) (FoS doesn't count, since you already stated who you think are scum and are voting for them which says you are convinced)

I didn't follow up the Kalofer and Oopidstay suspicions because I was waiting to see how people reacted (this is also the reason for me not asking them any questions), and then I was V/LA.

Strikes me as a way to try and not look like you are focusing on Twisted completely

Why would I want to do that as scum?

Now I'm going to explain my Kalofer and Oopidstay suspicions.

[Wickedestjr]

Kalofer:

Firstly, on page 1 when everybody was talking about Oopidstay's selfvote, Kalofer, rather than comment on the selfvote, made two jokey posts which both completely ignored the serious discussion. It wasn't until after nearly everyone had commented on it (and it was clear what most of the town was thinking) that he actually started posting seriously.

Secondly, his first serious post wasn't that fantastic either. He votes Twistedspoon but

completely

piggybacks Oopidstay's reasoning. He doesn't even state the reasons and his only justification for the vote is that Oopidstay has a good enough reason to vote for TS. It looks like a bandwagon vote from scum. He also accuses Morthas of sitting back and not doing anything when Kalofer, himself, isn't any better. Finally, his stance on Oopidstay isn't very clear. In the same post he says that it is most likely that Oopidstay was a townie gauging reactions

and

that the selfvote was WIFOM. Which is it?

That was all that I had noticed at the time I called him scum, but he's continued acting suspiciously since then. Post 81 looks like he's giving himself room to backpedal and change his stance on TS when he needs to later. The last thing I noticed was that he originally ignored my reasonless suspicions, which is suspicious on its own because it lacks the interest that a townie would have in discerning my allignment. However, my main issue is how he

does

indicate that he is suspicious of me for the reasonless suspicions once another player (Juls) had done so.

Oopidstay:

I suspect him mostly because I don't believe that he actually selfvoted to generate reactions that he could work with. It looks like he might have stolen the reason from implosion and his posting in the first 1.5 pages didn't look like it had serious motivation behind it. Finally, he eventually expressed suspicion of Twistedspoon despite not showing any concern for his vote originally.


To be honest, I'm starting to doubt that Kalofer and Oopidstay are scumbuddies after rereading the thread, but I think they are both suspicious individually.

I have to go now.