DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Screaming Death Clan]

FOR THE BLOOD GOD

VOTE: TOTAL WAR

[HezLucky]

Vote: No Total War

DeathVote:HezLucky

What is this "death vote" you speak of and should I be acquiring a nuke for self-defense? :HUGE GRIN:

[Magua]

Defcon 4 Guide

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Understand things before you make your selections.

1. You get to choose between being able to nuke/defend from a nuke ("missile silo"), and having a PR ("troops").

2. If you choose "Troops", you get to list which PRs you want in the order that you want them. You don't need to include all the items; it can be as little as one. There's a draft, where you're more likely to get things high on the list than low.

If you don't end up with anything on your list, you get a missile silo.

The troop choices are:
Fighter: Rolecop
Espionage: Cop (one faction at a time)
Aircraft Carrier: Roleblocker
Battleship: Doctor
Radar: Tracker (does not track night-kills)
Counterintelligence: Framer/lawyer
Submarine: Anonymous daykill (starting D3)
Eavesdrop: Get PMed 1/6-1/3 of scum QT
Air Base: Immune to night actions
Fallout Shelter: Immune to daykills
Fail Safe: Vengeful

3. Scum get to coordinate their checks. We don't.

4. The SK gets one free pick, outside of the draft.

So, with all that in mind, some advice:

1. Do not choose missile silo. Do not do this.

If all you want is a missile silo, choose Troops and list Submarine as your only choice.

It's critical that we keep this out of scum hands. We may not be able to stop the SK from getting it, but we can make him use his free pick on it, and we can keep scum from getting this altogether.

The more people who do this, the better chance that town gets Submarine instead of scum.

You either get a Submarine, which is awesome, or you get a missile silo, which is what you wanted to begin with.

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base. I'd also advise against going for Submarine -- leave those to the people hopefully following point 1. Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Espionage, and Battleship are all really good powers that deserve top spots on your list -- at best, you'll get one, at worst you'll make it harder for scum to get them.

3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.

4. WIFOM it up in the thread. Town benefits from a certain spread to the selections, but only if scum don't know what it is.

[Magua]

EBWOP: 3. I'd really advise

against

putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.

[AurorusVox]

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base.

Problem is, if scum get their hands on Counter Espionage, then Espionage becomes pretty useless, etc. We could do without a uniformity in this area, really.

Regarding Sub: I say we all take a vow of honour and let RedCoyote get it On a more serious note, has anyone considered explicitly advising town against Subs? It's not like town needs to be secret about who they're nuking. I -KNOW- its a very powerful scum role, and this may sound really silly, but it might be best to let the scum have it. What I mean is, if we KNOW scum have got the sub, then we can eventually confirm who they are by making people launch their nukes; if someone launches and we don't see their name attached to the warhead, we know they're holding the secret daykill powar and they're confirmed scum. It could also be useful for rooting out the SK. Thoughts on this?

Scary moment: realising the implications of five scum (as opposed to the traditional DEFCON triple threats) which is going to make scum drafts a lot harder to overcome.

[Katsuki]

The POINT of town taking sub is to keep it out of scum hands imo.

Those posts last night are an example of why I hate smartphones. = =b

[Katsuki]

I don't support Total War

It's way too confusing on top of being pretty scum-sided, imo.

Explain.

Maybe the recently ending Superhero Mafia will explain what I'm talking about. Look how horribly a few town kills that were in the hands of one player screwed the town over. Emphasizing our "vig" shots and taking away our ability to talk things over is most likely going to confuse people and help the scum.

These shots are not only public, but each player only has one shot each day. PLUS they can be canceled.

Jeez dana it's as if you're trying to pretend you've never played Defcon mafia or something...

[Magua]

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base.

Problem is, if scum get their hands on Counter Espionage, then Espionage becomes pretty useless, etc. We could do without a uniformity in this area, really.

Disagree. Counter-espionage requires you to select a specific person and a specific investigation (cop, rolecop, tracker). Scum having it, even guaranteed, does not make Fighters, Espionage, or Radar useless by any stretch of the imagination.

Or, to put it another way, in every single scenario imaginable, I would prefer town to have Espionage and scum to have Counter-espionage than the reverse.

Regarding Sub: I say we all take a vow of honour and let RedCoyote get it On a more serious note, has anyone considered explicitly advising town against Subs? It's not like town needs to be secret about who they're nuking. I -KNOW- its a very powerful scum role, and this may sound really silly, but it might be best to let the scum have it. What I mean is, if we KNOW scum have got the sub, then we can eventually confirm who they are by making people launch their nukes; if someone launches and we don't see their name attached to the warhead, we know they're holding the secret daykill powar and they're confirmed scum. It could also be useful for rooting out the SK. Thoughts on this?

Er. Submarine owning player will simply claim to not have a missile silo, because they have some other troops deployment. Like Counter-espionage. =P And, in the meantime, they'll be anonymously daykilling.

No. I'd much rather that town gets this.

[Zhero]

Fail Safe doesn't trigger on Terrorist Attacks, only nukes and Stealth Bombers, so it's not useful at all on Night 1.

Good guide though. The first Defcon game had a few noteworthy problems with people not understanding the rules until far too late, if I remember right.

Town not going for Sub is silly, since at worst it's equivalent to a normal nuke, and thus if you're going for a nuke anyway there's no reason not to try for sub.

..except to let RedCoyote have it, of course.

The wording on the Sub description ("you

may

launch") indicates that it's not compulsory, so we wouldn't catch scum that way anyway.

[AurorusVox]

Disagree. Counter-espionage requires you to select a specific person and a specific investigation (cop, rolecop, tracker). Scum having it, even guaranteed, does not make Fighters, Espionage, or Radar useless by any stretch of the imagination.

Ah, yes, you're right there. I thought you could just put something like "Guilty" and be done with it.

Er. Submarine owning player will simply claim to not have a missile silo, because they have some other troops deployment.

Yes, but that only works up to a point. Most of the power owners in the last game were claimed or killed off quite early. If someone lies about their deployment they're GOING to get caught out. But it was a pipe-dream anyway, so yeah, just gogoTown and get the sub.

The wording on the Sub description ("you

may

launch") indicates that it's not compulsory, so we wouldn't catch scum that way anyway.

Of course you don't

have

to launch but what I'm saying is that it is foreseeable that we'll end up in a situation where people will be launching and scum will get backed into a corner and be caught out by not being able to launch but not having a troop deployment either. See above for why I doubt scum can get away with fakeclaiming for long. But anyway, there are plenty of bloodthirsty players who will want anonymity with their mushroom clouds so vOv

[Gammagooey]

Hez a deathvote iz a vote for death.

And pretty much everything Magua's saying is right except the the air base since it can stop scum+terrorist kills and maybe the WIFOM but that may just be me not wanting to see "Guys I might have this ability you should lynch someone else" or "hey I have a cool ability OR DO I?!?!?!" instead of words that are actually Useful. It's probably alright in small doses though.

[Toogeloo]

They could claim to have Silo in Defense as well, just fyi.

[Katsuki]

They could claim to have Silo in Defense as well, just fyi.

That's pretty much a scumclaim.

[Toogeloo]

Or hell... Scum sub could just declare themselves a Silo. It says they "may" declare in silence. Nothing really stopping them from declaring openly as a Sub "Nuke: Target," and then claiming to be in defense the next day or something.

Seriously, if you don't want a power, pick Sub regardless.

[Gammagooey]

Unless you're the towniest person ever and think that scum will nuke you as they're going down Defensive mode nukes is ewwwww. I guess you could do it if you're Really not confident in your reads too but very very largely a town-driven nuke is going to be more helpful than blocking a nuke that may or may not occur.

also stop ninjaing me.

[Katsuki]

COUNTERINTELLEGENCE IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO KEEP OUT OF SCUM HANDS BY THE WAY.

The one-day of QT communication it offers will be vital and something scum definately wants. My team last game was terribad, and not having the freedom to communicate freely in the QT definately drove our team into the ground (on top of 2 of us having quit the game, but meh).

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm in agreement with Magua's general thinking on Troop deployment claims and very much like the Sub idea. Any Townie wanting to go Silo should follow that 100%.

Now that SDC has checked in we only have to wait for our illustrius Mod to check in to move us to Defcon 4.

@Kats - Do you mean Eavesdrop (listen in better on QTs) as opposed to Counterintelligence (Framer / Lawyer)?

@MOD - I'll be V/LA from more or less right now until Monday for my usual Weekend family duties.

[Gammagooey]

Magna counterintelligence also allows a one-shot unobservable QT for a night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna counterintelligence also allows a one-shot unobservable QT for a night.

Aha, I missed that bit tacked on at the end. My attention wandered when I reached the example portion above that and I moved on to other abilities.

[gorilla]

Counterintelligence is scary in the hands of scum imo, most likely will be used to fuck with cop results since messing with rolecop stuff doesn't make much sense. A combined framer/mobile godfather worries me though. The possibility for multiple scumteam members to get cleared doesn't sit well with me. Definitely worth having a few people try to steal it.

gamma: why the deathvote on hez?

[Gammagooey]

Boring+unconfrontational first post plus trying to show he's useful by saying he's going to go reread earlier games instead of actually Being useful.

[Swift Justice]

Anyone with a nuke in defensive mode will be lynched on site. No questions asked. It's a scumclaim. We're not fucking around with 'teehee if you're not confident in your reads' garbage.

[Gammagooey]

: ?
I get that defensive mode can cover for scum that don't want to claim something else but defensive mode can be useful for not getting nuked by scum on their way out or for not getting dead if someone's super-tunneling on you but you think they're more likely town than not, plus if they need to prove it they can just change to offensive the next day and nuke the otherwise lynched target, am I missing something with why it's so terrible?

[Katsuki]

I'm in agreement with Magua's general thinking on Troop deployment claims and very much like the Sub idea. Any Townie wanting to go Silo should follow that 100%.

Now that SDC has checked in we only have to wait for our illustrius Mod to check in to move us to Defcon 4.

@Kats - Do you mean Eavesdrop (listen in better on QTs) as opposed to Counterintelligence (Framer / Lawyer)?

@MOD - I'll be V/LA from more or less right now until Monday for my usual Weekend family duties.

Both.

ALSO I JUST NOTICED, WHY IS PERCY NOT IN THIS GAME??

[Katsuki]

: ?
I get that defensive mode can cover for scum that don't want to claim something else but defensive mode can be useful for not getting nuked by scum on their way out or for not getting dead if someone's super-tunneling on you but you think they're more likely town than not, plus if they need to prove it they can just change to offensive the next day and nuke the otherwise lynched target, am I missing something with why it's so terrible?

Nukes can be canceled.