Mini 210: Secret Ballot Mafia- The Ballotbox is Closed!

[ChocoCid]

The problem is, that information is particularly useful for the mafia, as they know who the second-most-likely candidate for a lynch is and can get a quick and easy runoff, and with tiebreakers in their favor...

We're just going to have to find someone who looks scummy and try to lynch them, it seems, and see what sort of strategy the mafia is using. I'm wondering about how many power roles there are for us- I can only see us winning if the power roles find scum and let the rest of us go after them.

I'm not sure that having them all claim right now wouldn't be such a bad idea, but then again we are already short a doc, and setting the mafia up an easy night 2 kill on a power role can't be a good thing.

[Pariah]

I don't really see how we're going to actually lynch any scum player, while trying to get the whole town agreeing to vote for one player. That's hard enough on it's own...but the town isn't going to be unanimous to lynch anyone because the mafia will be fighting against attacks on their scum buddies...unless we attack a townie.

[ChocoCid]

Exactly. I can't see any lynch today being a good idea unless a power role is willing to step forth with information and someone can confirm said power role. Even so, that allows for mafia hijinks.

I'd call for "no lynch" and let the power roles have another night to get things figured out, as that's probably the best way to get a lynch. The problem is, doing so gives the mafia one more nightkill, which means it'll be that much harder to get the near-unanimous vote we need.

Our best bet is to get a runoff and hit the right person in said runoff. The problem with that strategy is there is literally nothing to base our voting on at this point... unless someone with a power role thinks there's another doc that's around to protect him? Of course, the power roles may not even have any information on scum yet at this point.
I can't see us winning this one when we're already in the hole, because if we have no doc, we're in trouble. If we do have another doc, we might be able to pull this off.

[ChocoCid]

However, if we do have a doc, then that doc claiming would be a boneheaded move.
Unfortunately, without a claim from the doc, nobody else knows if it's safe to claim themselves.

VIZZINI

Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I'm not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

MAN IN BLACK
(And now there's a trace of nervousness beginning)

You've made your decision then7

VIZZINI

Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

MAN IN BLACK

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

VIZZINI

Wait till I get going! Where was I?

MAN IN BLACK

Australia.

VIZZINI

Yes -- Australia, and you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

MAN IN BLACK
(very nervous)

You're just stalling now.

VIZZINI
(cackling)

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you?

(stares at the Man in Black)

You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong. So, you could have put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard which means you must have studied. And in studying, you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

Awesome scene.

Fixed your quote tags. --Jere

[ChocoCid]

Uh... what the heck messed up the quote tags?

[Astronaut]

Choco: You need a couple of "-s around the name of the person you're quoting.

...but the town isn't going to be unanimous to lynch anyone because the mafia will be fighting against attacks on their scum buddies...

Scum defending scum is, apart from cop investigations, the best way to find scum. I agree that we probably have quite a few power roles working for us, but to rely 100% on them is a risk I'm not willing to take. I want all of us to contribute in the search for baddies, and that means we have to know who supports whom.

And ChocoCid: First you suggest a mass claim day 1 and next you start talking about a no lynch? Those are just about the two scummiest things you can do around here, and is probably worth an

FOS: ChocoCid

.

Note that this has nothing to do with your FOS on me, as I can understand how one can disagree with me on that one.

[ChocoCid]

And ChocoCid: First you suggest a mass claim day 1 and next you start talking about a no lynch?

Shall I refer you to the following?

However, if we do have a doc, then that doc claiming would be a boneheaded move.
Unfortunately, without a claim from the doc, nobody else knows if it's safe to claim themselves.

I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying the possibility exists, and the right meta-meta-meta-metagame thinking would imply that it's the correct one.

DEPENDING on the number of power roles we have, a "no lynch" would be correct, but only if you go up one level of metagaming. I'm really just thinking out loud, rather than suggesting it. I honestly don't know how we're supposed to find scum WITHOUT some sort of power role capable of doing so.

[ChocoCid]

Also:

I'd call for "no lynch" and let the power roles have another night to get things figured out *snip* The problem is, doing so gives the mafia one more nightkill

also:

a power role is willing to step forth ... Even so, that allows for mafia hijinks

I'm both suggesting the strategies and shooting them down. How is that scummy?

[JereIC]

Vote Roll Call

Calling for vote (0)

:

Nobody

Not calling for vote (11)

:

Everybody

Six to start voting.

[ChocoCid]

Well, that means we're going to have an insanely long day 1 until we figure something out.

[Someone]

OK, I will repeat my plan, because it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

A) We proceed upon the regular procedures of finding somebody suspicious
B) We get the majority of people to find one person suspicious
C) We get

everyone

to vote this person, whether they think they're suspicious or not.

Pro-town forces have to vote for this person, because if not, the lynch is easily influenced. IMO we should all agree right now to vote to lynch the person who is in the majority position, rather than who we may personally feel the most scummy.

I agree

[ChocoCid]

Sounds reasonable, but who's suspicious right now?

[Astronaut]

I'm not sure if Someone's plan is bulletproof, but it's a lot better than keeping all votes secret.

[ChocoCid]

I've said it once already that making your vote public is sort of against the spirit of this whole thing, though.
The whole point of the secret ballot is that it's... well, secret.

MOD

, clarification on something.
If the vote goes to a runoff, will there be a discussion period for us to talk about who's going to be lynched?
Also, if it goes to a runoff, will "no lynch" votes be accepted, in case we seem to have 2 townies up for vote?

[JereIC]

MOD

, clarification on something.
If the vote goes to a runoff, will there be a discussion period for us to talk about who's going to be lynched?

No, the thread remains locked through the whole voting process.

Also, if it goes to a runoff, will "no lynch" votes be accepted, in case we seem to have 2 townies up for vote?

No, unless "No lynch" wins first or second place in the first round.

[ChocoCid]

Okay, that makes sense, and yet makes it as hard as possible to get a good scumlynch.

We've got 11 now, and assuming one nightkill that means...
mislynch, nightkill =9
mislynch, nightkill=7

2 mislynches can get us in a situation where either we're one more mislynch away from losing or have already lost, depending on the # of scum.

I honestly don't see how we are supposed to get started here.

[Save The Dragons]

And ChocoCid: First you suggest a mass claim day 1 and next you start talking about a no lynch? Those are just about the two scummiest things you can do around here, and is probably worth an

FOS: ChocoCid

.

Is this a regurgitation, or did you think about each situation in our current context?

[Someone]

I don't see anything wrong about exploring our options. As long as he wasn't pressing for no-lynch/mass claim, I see no reason why he cannot bring it up.

[ChocoCid]

I've already got an FOS on astronaut, and feel the need to reiterate it.
He looks scummier than before just for trying to make me look scummy, and I in fact feel strongly enough about this to call for a

VOTE NOW

.

That's only 1 in 6, so it's really not that much pressure anyway.

[mathcam]

I think ChocoCid is mafia, and I think he's overacting how "hard" he thinks it's going to be for the town to get a good lynch. Post 40, for example, contains information that applies in just about every single mini...

worse

in some because of the presence of a serial killer. So why is he so worried about it this time?

Second, getting a lynch in this game is just about as hard as any other, the only difference being that we have to insist that all townies follow the majority, whether or not they're in agreement. Otherwise, the mafia can take control. A responsible townie should have no qualms with this, so I don't see much of a problem.

Finally, I think we should have some faith in our mod here...the game is probably well-balanced, so let's not go out of our way to circumvent that balancing by coming up with insane plans.

Cam

[ChocoCid]

I'm mafia for saying it looks like it's going to be hard to find scum? The hell?

FOS: mathcam.

the game is probably well-balanced, so let's not go out of our way to circumvent that balancing by coming up with insane plans.

So what would you suggest we do then?

[ChocoCid]

Goddamnit, that's twice now I've managed to screw up tags.

[halfpint]

So what would you suggest we do then?

Well, I think that we get started like we get started in other games ... we talk about who we find suspicious. Then, if we feel strongly about someone, we should call for a vote now. However, seeing as it is imperative for the town's survival to have agreement on who to vote for, we need to make sure that we have the agreement before we have a majority of 'vote nows'.

I find people suspcious that don't want the town to come to an agreement. It seems to me that it is in the mafia's best interest if the town doesn't have an agreement on who to vote for before the day is out. That way, they can make up a majority block on someone and hope the town scatters their votes. You, Choco, I find especially suspicous because you keep saying things like "it's not in the spirit of the game to decide on who to vote for beforehand". That seems very scummy to me.

Where in the heck is King?

[KingEnigma]

if you wanna refer to me as king you have to say The King

so what you should have said is "where is The King?"

I'm still all for my Pariah is the SK theory, but i seem to be the only one, and chococid, i dont think we've played in very many (if any) games together, and i think your trying too hard.

and seriously, everyone tries harder when they are the bad guy, which is bad because then people can tell your the bad guy because you tried to hard.

dont try and argue the logic, my mind is made up. Mr Cid is scum, Pariah is the SK.

Lets do it!! (I will however not vote for the now person because you all need time to digest the information that i have given you. talk amongst yourselves)

[Astronaut]

And ChocoCid: First you suggest a mass claim day 1 and next you start talking about a no lynch? Those are just about the two scummiest things you can do around here, and is probably worth an

FOS: ChocoCid

.

Is this a regurgitation, or did you think about each situation in our current context?

It is a regurgitation, but I think it applies in this game as well.

Also, I don't think we should proceed to voting until we've agreed/disagreed on how we should vote.

I support Someone's plan to find one person and all vote for him/her.