Newbie 04 - Game Over

[Werebear]

oh yes, two more things.

No talking in the thread nights, and the next spring, the first rock climbers down the eastern cliff had a VERY nasty surprise.

[Werebear]

it appears the post count is off. Please go back to the last page to see the day 1 results.

[Werebear]

It was certainly a long night for Sugar. She spent all night waiting in the cold amid the various residences, to make sure the person she decided to protect was safe. At long last, she lifted her tired eyes up to see the first tinge of dawn. A vast stillness had settled over the resort, all sounds muffled by the snow. The pre-dawn light bathed the area in an eerie glow, with sharp shadows sticking out at odd angles. She started heading home.
All of a sudden, a soft voice shattered the silence. "You need some sleep, Sugar." Sugar looked around for the source of the voice, but could not find it. "Let me help you with that problem." the voice intoned, colder than any snowdrift nearby. Sugar started to respond, but the throwing knife that blossomed out of her chest like snowbells in spring stopped her. She had time to wonder at how much blood a body can hold before she fell to the ground. The last thing she saw was a familar face coming to get their property back, so they could kill tomorrow night.

Sugar, Doc, has been found dead. It is DAY 2, 5 alive, 3 to lynch.

Alive:

Phoebus
Someone
Spoon
Just_nigel
Yggdrasil

[Yggdrasil]

Damnit, just my luck. Last night I investigated Sugar, but that gives us no extra information as she was just killed tonight.

Right now, I find Phoebus most suspicious.

Unvote: Just_nigel

Shall we just put this game in the freezer till New Year's?

With a majority of people missing, discussion has all but dried up...
It's so sad to come to Rome every day just to find no or just a couple new posts...

~Phoebus~

With a deadline fast aproaching and no one with the necessary number of votes, unvoting seems like a very scummy thing to do. Especially because just_nigel was 1 vote away from the 3 necessary to lynch at the deadline. At this point the vote count was:

just_nigel - 2 (Phoebus, tehgood)
tehgood - 2 (Spoon, just_nigel)

So, unvoting just_nigel seems like a good way to get tehgood lynched, without explicitly saying so. Perhaps just_nigel and Phoebus are our mafia group.

Hmm.
This is a rather awkward situation.

Do we really want to go into night without a lynch?
People seem to advocate against it on other parts of this board.
On the other hand, it might be useful by potentially adding another day/night cycle to the game...thus giving us more time to find scum?
With a seven player game, if we get a townie today...tomorrow would be do-or-die. Possibly excellent conditions for the mafia to win?

Here he does not recognize that a no lynch will mean that in day 2 we would either have to no lynch or lynch a mafia in order to stay alive. This is no better than the do-or-die position that we are in now. This post could be construed as trying to suggest no lynch, without doing so in a suspicious way.

So, I'll

FOS: Phoebus

and

mini FOS: just_nigel

. Note that we

should not

be voting now because with 3 to lynch and two mafia left, a wrong vote by a townie could cost us the game.

[Phoebus]

I'm sorry...but what?!

My vote for Nigel was random.
No one else voted for him or was going to vote for him apart from tehgood (which eventually led to his downfall) There was no discussion. He was hardly being scummy.

It was hardly fair for my vote to remain there. At that point of time, tehgood's behaviour was the scummiest. I was sure he had a pal out there. Now why would I facilitate the lynching of an innocent by keeping him one vote closer to the deadline-truncated vote requirement?

Now that come to think of it...Spoon and Nigel left their vote on tehgood and left to wander. Atleast I was being responsible about my vote.
Flying below the radar is a very suspicious thing to do.

I'll

FoS Just_nigel and Spoon

for that.

And,

Here he does not recognize that a no lynch will mean that in day 2 we would either have to no lynch or lynch a mafia in order to stay alive.

No lynch is not an option. It's Mafia or bust. Ofcourse I realise that. Everyone who's been following these newbie games does. They are heavily laden in favour of the mafia and I assumed it was a given.

This is no better than the do-or-die position that we are in now.

Agreed. We're on the same wave length here.

This post could be construed as trying to suggest no lynch, without doing so in a suspicious way.

Here...we are not.
I was just thinking out aloud and trying to look at the game from all possible angles. It helps when the thoughts are spelled out in words in front of me to read. I hoped it would help others as well.

I wouldn't suggest no lynch. My first lines should show my attitude...

Do we really want to go into night without a lynch?
People seem to advocate against it on other parts of this board.

Did we really? No!
The problem is...whatever games I've played with tehgood or ones I've followed with him in it...he seems to appear scummy and turn up to be townie too many times. I guess I was afraid of meta gaming too much. It wouldn't be too helpful in a newbie game anyways. And well according to the law of averages...he is up to be scum somewhere. I hesitated because I did not want a scum tag for casting lynching vote on a townie. In the end, I guess I meta-gamed anyways!

~Phoebus~

[Werebear]

(by the way, just fun trivia - last night, Sugar asked if she could protect herself. Normally, this is not the case in mafias, but it never hurts to ask. I asked her what she'd do if she were mod, and she admitted she probably wouldn't let a player do that. Poor Sugar.)

[just_nigel]

If I read this right,

Someone

didn't vote to lynch.

Does that proove Someone isn't the maffia?
No because if Someone is the maffia, they didn't need to vote. The townies had already done a good enough job of knocked off one of their own - ooops

hmmm, which is why I am also suspicious of

Spoon

But maybe that is just me feeling the need to blame someone for the death of our innocent Yak-herding townie friend. Let me re-read the posts so far again in the light of my new suspicions.

[Werebear]

And the people were silent, each considering their own fate. This allowed plenty of time for the sun to ZOOM across the horizon.

DEADLINE: Wed., Jan 14th, noon EST

LAST POSTING DATES:
Phoebus 1/7
Someone hasn't posted day 2
Spoon hasn't posted day 2
Just_nigel 1/8
Yggdrasil 1/7

If our two MIA players haven't posted by the deadline, they will be replaced.

[Someone]

If I read this right, Someone didn't vote to lynch.

Does that proove Someone isn't the maffia?
No because if Someone is the maffia, they didn't need to vote. The townies had already done a good enough job of knocked off one of their own - ooops

hmmm, which is why I am also suspicious of Spoon

So you're suspicious of me for not doing something that would be bad for that town. There's always going to be somebody that doesn't vote in a lynch, because there are only a certain number of votes to lynch.

Basically, your argument boils down to, you're doing something good for the town just to make yourself not seem like mafia...isn't it possible to do something good for the town because you want the town to win?


Before anyone votes, I would like to hear something from Spoon, so no votes yet please. (Yes, I know this has already sort of been said, but it's so important that I say it twice.)

[just_nigel]

OK, so I have proven nothing beyond reasonable doubt... but hey, when did anybody who was lynched receive a fair trial

Who do you suspect, Someone?

[Yggdrasil]

Well, it seems Spoon's last post in mafiascum was Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:18 am. He's probably inactive, so I would want to wait for a him to come back/be replacement before going after him.

Werebear

: a clarification please. Will the day end after the deadline, or is the deadline just there to get replacements?

[Phoebus]

Could we get a status update on Spoon please?

*ugh* Now we can't question his replacement (if there is one) about his actions.

*sigh*

[Werebear]

*sigh* Why can't these newbies every post email addresses so I can poke them?

OK, here's the situation. My parents went away for a week's vacation, and-- oops, wrong situation, and I just dated myself (and I was a cheap date too).

The Wed. deadline is now for Spoon to post before he's replaced. Day deadline is now FRIDAY. POST MORE, instead of just waiting for Spoon, and I'll lift the day deadline.

[Yggdrasil]

*attempt to start up more conversation*

Okay, here's my analysis of the game so far:

p.1
Spoon random votes tehgood - this could mean that he is scum since he random voted a confirmed townie, but this doesn't really make a strong case against him.
just_nigel votes tehgood - its understandable as a vote in self-defense, so no real anti-town points there

p.2
in this post:

OK with one day left we basically have to decide if a random lynch or a no lynch is better. With 6 possibilities we have a 2/6 or a 1/3 chance of catching a baddie. If no lynch we'll have 5 people left to choose from. I'm not sure what to do. Sugar?

Someone does not recognize that a no lynch would be very bad for the town. The wording of his post (which looks only at the probabilities of catching a scum) makes no lynch sound like a better idea that random lynching day 1, which defintiely makes him more suspicious to me.

p.3
Phoebus posts this:

The problem is...whatever games I've played with tehgood or ones I've followed with him in it...he seems to appear scummy and turn up to be townie too many times. I guess I was afraid of meta gaming too much. It wouldn't be too helpful in a newbie game anyways. And well according to the law of averages...he is up to be scum somewhere. I hesitated because I did not want a scum tag for casting lynching vote on a townie. In the end, I guess I meta-gamed anyways!

to defend tehgood after-the-fact. This seems like he's trying to cast suspicion away from himself. This post doesn't really add anything to the discussion and it serves only to criticize the others for voting for tehgood.

As for the actual voting for day 1:

tehgood 3 (Spoon, Just_nigel, Yggdrasil)
Just_nigel 1 (tehgood)
Spoon 1 (Sugar)
Not voting 3 (Phoebus, Someone)

I would give some slight pro-town points to those who did not vote for tehgood, because it would have been easy to justify putting the 3rd/4th vote on tehgood. However, those pro-town points turn to suspiciouns if a no lynch would have been better for the mafia (which it might have, any thoughts?).


Anyway, I still find Phoebus most suspicious. What I would have seen as more responsible voting would have been to leave the vote on just_nigel. With an upcomming deadline, getting enough votes is very hard. In those sittuations, the best option is to vote for the person with the most votes. By unvoting, Phoebus made any attempt to lynch just_nigel very hard as it would have required two people to vote for him in just a couple days. If just_nigel and Spoon had been "responsible" with their votes, as Phoebus suggested, it is likely there would have been no lynch day 1.

But I will point out that Spoon hasn't really posted much with any substance yet. This could mean he's a scum reluctant to say anything that might incriminate him. But, as he is inactive, there's not much we can do about that.

[Spoon]

I am back. I'm sorry for my absence. I have very little to post right now, since I have no idea what is going on. I will have a vote ready soon.

[Yggdrasil]

Please don't vote, Spoon. As there are two mafia left and a lynch requires only three votes, if a townie votes an innocent, the two mafia can easily vote for that person and win.

However, that's assuming you're innocent

[just_nigel]

Yggdrasil our trusty cop suspects - Phoebus and either just_nigel (me) or Someone.
Phoebus suspects - just-nigel and Spoon.
just-nigel suspects - Someone and Spoon.

And so far it is those two Someone and Spoon who haven't indicated any suspicion.

Townies definitely don't want to join a voting block with the scum so here is my reasoning:
I want to vote with our trusty cop Yggdrasil.
I'd rather not vote with Phoebus' incase Yggdrasil is right.
Phoebus has fingered me first off anyway, which I already know is wrong so why trust the allegation against Spoon.
I did have some questions about spoon, but if I dismiss them I am still left with my number one suspicion of 'Someone'.
AND that coincides with one of Yggdrasil's suspicions.

So if Yggdrasil will vote for 'Someone' I will follow that lead and vote for 'Someone' too.

[Yggdrasil]

What are your thoughts about Phoebus, just_nigel? In my mind, I find it somewhat unlikely that Someone is mafia despite some of the scummy actions he's made, but I'd like to hear why you think he is your "number one" suspicion.

Also, it would be helpful for Someone and Spoon to post their suspicions.

[Someone]

OK with one day left we basically have to decide if a random lynch or a no lynch is better. With 6 possibilities we have a 2/6 or a 1/3 chance of catching a baddie. If no lynch we'll have 5 people left to choose from. I'm not sure what to do. Sugar?

Someone does not recognize that a no lynch would be very bad for the town. The wording of his post (which looks only at the probabilities of catching a scum) makes no lynch sound like a better idea that random lynching day 1, which defintiely makes him more suspicious to me.

I don't see that as slanting the facts any, make of it what you may. I was just stating the facts.

Now, the town is asking me who I find suspicious. Frankly, I don't really find many people suspicious right now. At the top of my list would be just_nigel, but none of them has posted nearly enough to pick out anything of substance to denounce him. I'm also inclined to vote spoon because if he was mafia, no one would know, because he hasn't been posting. Just_nigel is most suspicious right now to me, if you want something concrete, but I would struggle to say why.

[just_nigel]

My thoughts on Phoebus?

Just becasue Phoebus named me, I didn't want to automatically vote for Phoebus in retaliation, becasue a wrong vote this round would be disasterous.

Until Yggdrasil pointed it out I did not realise that Phoebus did not have a vote first time round. That leaves the two who did not vote as Phoebus and Someone. (maybe working together ??)

Now with five people and one of them confirmed as the cop, the two maffia will need to cast suspicions on the two townines that are left.
Lo and behold Phoebus and Someone have now posted the same suspicions. (maybe working together ??)

AND those suspcions both point to me who I already know is a townie (OK I admit it I am a vanilla townie ) and the very quiet spoon (maybe the other townie and an easy target ??)

OK, earlier I voiced my own minor doubts about Spoon, but I now think the lack of invovlement here is not the 'lie low approach' of a scum eager to avoid attention, but the minor interest of someone who (like me) is only a minor player in this resorts tragic events.

So, if you will confirm we are voting as a block yggdrasil, I will vote for Phoebus or Someone with you. I would prefer to take out Someone first, but I am prepared to take the risk eitherway.

[Werebear]

Deadline retracted. Thanks for starting the posting back up.

[Werebear]

...and a day and a half later, I regret rescinding the deadline. What's going on?!

[Yggdrasil]

We have yet to hear anything significant from Spoon. I would like to hear something more than "I have no idea what is going on" from him before proceeding.

[just_nigel]

Is it just my paranoia (I mean my fellow winter holiday makers have been dropping like flies so they probably are after me), or does the lul in conversation come only after I post something???

Werebear, I am not sure what else you expect me to say.

We could always decide to give Spoon a short ride over a long drop becasue he is annoying us and lynch him whether he is mafia or not. Maybe the threat of violence will ellicit some response.

[Phoebus]

Please prod Spoon already!

His inactivity is rating high on my scumdar.
Atleast everyone has said what they think about the game.

As far as just_nigel is concerned,
We just have your word for that you are a townie.

Ofcourse everyone is allowed to put forward their thoughts and suspicions but you've been harping on the fact that I considered you scum.
As I said above, everyone is allowed to put forward their thoughts and suspicions. So I did. Chill out! It's not the end of the world.

It's been twice now that you've been going "ooh..Phoebus fingered me as evil. I'm not! Therefore he must be."
Cool it! Still waiting to hear from Spoon.

Don't get so uber defensive. That just sets the bells ringing.

~Phoebus~