Open Countdown! Mini 487! GAME OVER!

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: MGM

I think his play has been scummy. For little reasons that are beginning to add up.

1.) Both d3sisted and MGM voted for each other off the get go. I see mafia doing this so often as a distancing maneuver. Again, this really doesn’t mean anything alone and by itself is an incredibly weak argument.

2.) Then, he places his vote on me with little explanation. When Mirth and I asks him about..he does provide his random reasoning, which is fine because we were still in that random vote stage at the time. However, he later adds this:

MGM you mentioned the dangers of dogs before the kill was announced. So do you have any after kill explanation for your vote?

I mentioned him as a possible suspect and since the first suspect I mentioned died, I had an unused vote lying around. I might as well place it somewhere and since my hunch on d3sisted was correct, I might as well continue to trust my hunches for the time being.

he “random” voted someone who happened to be mafia on a hunch..what sort of hunch can someone get 3 posts into the game when his hunchie has not even posted yet? So now he has a hunch about me? That is crap logic. I now think that he got lucky when the SK killed d3sisted with MGM’s vote on him. Now he is trying to convince us that his hunches find scum...that I think is scummy.

3.) then this exchange occurs:

We are on page two. None of us have said very much yet, and all the votes up to this point have been random. We are all possible suspects. Why does he merit special attention here? He had a whole two posts when you first mentioned him as a "possible suspect." Your vote on d3sisted seemed to be a joking random vote which just happened to get lucky, as he hadn't posted anything when you voted for him. Then he voted for you. I'm weary of "hunches" that are formed without anything to back them up.

It should be pretty clear that my vote was random/arbitrary too. I didn't say the vote was based on a hunch. My hunch was about whether the SK posted

.

He just contradicted himself.

He just said…

I might as well place it somewhere and

since my hunch on d3sisted was correct, I might as well continue to trust my hunches for the time being.

Seeing his flawed logic on my vote he back tracks and lies (stating his hunch was about the SK not the vote).

4.) Then post 47, he tries to implicate something.

I have noted that HazzelQ has been posting in other threads, not this one yet…so again a pressure vote to get you talking.

So did Raffles. He posted extensively in Carthage mafia on Saturday. He could've posted here.

which I quickly address (without further comment from him on the subject)

since you metagamed I am sure you noted that Raffles has stated he/she will be on vacation until the 15th..

and that HazzelQ actually posted this morning (and posted on Sunday)...

5.) Seems like he is getting antsy. Again, this is not a big thing by itself, but since we are nightless, the mafia really would be antsy and might start trying to push a case.

We should start focussing. If we don't have a lynch target by the deadline, we're losing the town headstart the dead scum got us.

6.) Finally he unvotes me without reason, when asked he states:

... no reason?

Of course there is a reason. But I'm quite happy to hold it under my hat right now.

this seems very anti-town to me. Seems like he has information that he does not want to share with the town. Shouldn’t you provide the information to help the town?

At any rate, I think he has had the scummiest plays and posts thus far.

[Mgm]

this seems very anti-town to me. Seems like he has information that he does not want to share with the town. Shouldn’t you provide the information to help the town?

If I explain myself I help the mafia/SK more than the town.

At any rate, I think he has had the scummiest plays and posts thus far.

That's easy, apart from perhaps yourself, I made the most posts in the game, it's easy to see something scummy in that.

[Mirth]

First, CKD, what prompted your vote on MGM just now? Most of the stuff you pointed out has been around for a bit, and yet you didn't vote for him.

Second, MGM, quantity of posts does not necessarily mean that theres more of a chance to act scummy. Somebody could act very very very scummy with just one or two posts (like an early attempt at a hammer or the like). I don't see how this is a point in your favor.

[Raffles]

But then again, I recieved mine late as well so I'm inclined to believe it...

I find that hard to believe. It's quite unlikely the mod mistyped your name when he sent out roles. When did you receive your role PM?

I actually didn't recieve anything until I was about 3 posts in. Hence why I was posting on Consulmaker without making any posts here. I thought this game was being dragged late, I checked the queue thread, and lo and behold, game is already on the way. So I quickly sent off a PM to Pooky and made my first post here.

MGM, can you explain your contradiction?

[curiouskarmadog]

First, CKD, what prompted your vote on MGM just now? Most of the stuff you pointed out has been around for a bit, and yet you didn't vote for him.

the little things had been adding up...I saw two votes and thought I better analyze MGM more to weigh in either way (honestly though, I figured it would be on the scummy side)...

once a did the reread, he did come out quite scummy...and I posted why in my post.

[Mgm]

Second, MGM, quantity of posts does not necessarily mean that theres more of a chance to act scummy. Somebody could act very very very scummy with just one or two posts (like an early attempt at a hammer or the like). I don't see how this is a point in your favor.

You'd better read my post again, because that's not what I said. I said:

At any rate, I think he has had the scummiest plays and posts thus far.

That's easy, apart from perhaps yourself, I made the most posts in the game, it's easy to see something scummy in that.

More posts mean someone has more material to work with and naturally will see more things they consider scummy. That said, more posts DOES lead to more chances to act scummy which is why lurkers are so often pushed to contribute; if they don't say anything there's no chance of them slipping up. How that works in my favor? It probably doesn't, but it wasn't supposed to. It was supposed to make CKD think.

Suppose for a moment that I wasn't in the game. Would you have enough evidence to vote someone non-randomly by now? If not, that's clearly due to the lack of posts.

P.S. Yes Raffles, I can explain and I will in my next post.

[Kinetic]

I'll admit I'm not posting as much here as I am posting in my other games, but I'm reading this and more and more some things MGM is saying are rubbing me the wrong way.

Anyway, I just wanted to post a little more here so you guys don't forget about me.

[Mgm]

In CKD's post, I feel point 3 is the only valid one.
1) As you say, a weak argument. When was the last time you saw this distancing tactic (random vote each other day one) work? If it does anything it draws attention rather than create distance. For HazzelQ who considered me the SK: the first thing people do after someone dies is check who they voted and who voted them. How could that possibly work as a cover up if I'm top of both lists?

2)

he “random” voted someone who happened to be mafia on a hunch..what sort of hunch can someone get 3 posts into the game when his hunchie has not even posted yet?

A random hunch, which you obviously think can't exist.

So now he has a hunch about me? That is crap logic.

It's only crap logic if you try to make out it's more than luck.

I now think that he got lucky when the SK killed d3sisted with MGM’s vote on him. Now he is trying to convince us that his hunches find scum...that I think is scummy.

I only remember saying that since my first vote was right, I might as well go with my instinct for the next; the only one I'm trying to convince is myself. Trying to convince people I'm trying to convince them when I'm not is scummier.
3) Yes, I contradicted myself. That was due to the fact I didn't reread on what I said earlier before I posted. It proves I have the memory of a dodo.
4)CKD said that his reason to vote HQ was "I have noted that HazzelQ has been posting in other threads, not this one yet…so again a pressure vote to get you talking." I certainly did imply something there; you didn't vote Raffles for some reason even though the same rule applied to him. He too posted in another thread and not here. The fact he was on holiday to the 15th means HazzelQ was around more often and is more guilty of it, but that shouldn't give Raffles a free pass.
5) I'm antsy all right! We're on a deadline and if nothing happens and the SK doesn't stay on target in killing mafia, we're toast after a mere 4 death townies. Don't you think a townie would get restless with an impending deadline?
6) Already explained in post 101.

[Mgm]

I'm of the opinion that the SK has posted already.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Again, more of just a hunch. Pooky isn't able to check the thread very much which makes me believe that the SK sent in his kill a little while ago but he just got it. Just a hunch, I admit, but a good one I think.

In post 66 Mirth shows around half the people posted before and half the people posted after the kill. If you believe it took Pooky time to process the kill, it does nothing to improve the odds of the killer posting. Those odds remained the same.

[Mirth]

Don't you think a townie would get restless with an impending deadline?

Maybe. Should we consider this a claim? (I don't like unneccessary claims or what could be construed as breadcrumbed claims. Sometimes they're true, sometimes they aren't, I just don't see a point in them.) I don't really see how not having a lynch before the SK's deadline is a bad thing (as long as when we do decide to lynch it falls on a deadline) in a nightless game. Please explain it to me? Why hurry?

Also, I understood your point just fine, but probably didn't do a good job of voicing my objection to it. Sure you posted more and theres more for us to dig through, but quantity and quality are two different things. As in I get that more material = more fodder, but maybe there is something innately suspicious in the material that has nothing to do with how much you posted, but rather with a specific post and its contents.

What I don't like: Kinetic also voicing his suspicion of MGM. I called MGM out on the hunch thing 2 pages back. Nobody else commented. Then Hazel voted. And CKD and Kinetic seem to take this as a cue that its okay to voice their suspicions. MGM hasn't done anything particularly earth shattering (or worthy of note even) in the last page. Granted, I still think he is the most suspicious person here, of people whove actually said something. But that can obviously change.

[Mgm]

You can consider it a claim if you want - it's true. It was actually meant to show that restlessness wasn't as scummy as CKD implied.

I was hoping pushing forward would get us past the random voting stage quickly and get at least some info to base a lynch on. The quicker that happens the better. The longer we wait, the longer the SK can keep killing and the longer the mafia can guide us into faulty lynches. It's better to stop that sooner than later.

Not having a lynch actually starts to sound like a good option. We don't have enough information to make well thought out decision despite my efforts which has too much chance of resulting in a mislynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

What I don't like: Kinetic also voicing his suspicion of MGM. I called MGM out on the hunch thing 2 pages back. Nobody else commented. Then Hazel voted. And CKD and Kinetic seem to take this as a cue that its okay to voice their suspicions. MGM hasn't done anything particularly earth shattering (or worthy of note even) in the last page. Granted, I still think he is the most suspicious person here, of people whove actually said something. But that can obviously change.

I can see that it looks scummy, or at least suspicious. I guess I am not in that mind set “should I post (or vote) because it might look scummy?” As I said before, I went back and read MGM’s post and thought it warranted a vote.


Here is the current problem with this game. We a.) don’t have enough active posters and b.) don’t have a Mod that can check the internet regularly. In a game set up like this one where we have a deadline, we need a Mod who is on top of this game. WE NEED PRODS! What should we do? Is there a back up Mod? DO we just grin and bear it?


We need the thoughts, votes, and feed back of every person in this game. If not, this game is heavily slanted in favor of the the SK and mafia.

[HazzelQ]

In CKD's post, I feel point 3 is the only valid one.
1) As you say, a weak argument. When was the last time you saw this distancing tactic (random vote each other day one) work? If it does anything it draws attention rather than create distance.

For HazzelQ who considered me the SK: the first thing people do after someone dies is check who they voted and who voted them. How could that possibly work as a cover up if I'm top of both lists?

I can't believe how transparent you are! I c-l-e-a-r-l-y said this is what led me to believe you are the SK! You've done this twice if I remember correctly: I say something, and you answer it as if I said something else. No one buys it dude. Yes, this is a newbie game (right ?) but people do know how to read. I say it one more time just to make you understand:

You killed whoever, and voted for him, just so that you would seem less suspicious of being the SK.

(Is that a hard sentence, is my English that bad?) That's what I think happened. I'm not saying it is true, but I am saying it's what I think.

[HazzelQ]

4)CKD said that his reason to vote HQ was "I have noted that HazzelQ has been posting in other threads, not this one yet…so again a pressure vote to get you talking." I certainly did imply something there; you didn't vote Raffles for some reason even though the same rule applied to him. He too posted in another thread and not here. The fact he was on holiday to the 15th means HazzelQ was around more often and is more guilty of it, but that shouldn't give Raffles a free pass.

What's your point here?? Gosh you expect him to vote for two people at the same time? hahaha

[HazzelQ]

I'm of the opinion that the SK has posted already.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Again, more of just a hunch. Pooky isn't able to check the thread very much which makes me believe that the SK sent in his kill a little while ago but he just got it. Just a hunch, I admit, but a good one I think.

In post 66 Mirth shows around half the people posted before and half the people posted after the kill. If you believe it took Pooky time to process the kill, it does nothing to improve the odds of the killer posting. Those odds remained the same.

I call

meaningless discussion

[HazzelQ]

You can consider it a claim if you want - it's true. It was actually meant to show that restlessness wasn't as scummy as CKD implied.

I was hoping pushing forward would get us past the random voting stage quickly and get at least some info to base a lynch on. The quicker that happens the better. The longer we wait, the longer the SK can keep killing and the longer the mafia can guide us into faulty lynches. It's better to stop that sooner than later.

Not having a lynch actually starts to sound like a good option. We don't have enough information to make well thought out decision despite my efforts which has too much chance of resulting in a mislynch.

So now you claim vanilla townie and decide to abandon your plan to come to a quick lynch? Why- because the focus is on you! please.

[HazzelQ]

Here is the current problem with this game. We a.) don’t have enough active posters and b.) don’t have a Mod that can check the internet regularly. In a game set up like this one where we have a deadline, we need a Mod who is on top of this game. WE NEED PRODS! What should we do? Is there a back up Mod? DO we just grin and bear it?


We need the thoughts, votes, and feed back of every person in this game. If not, this game is heavily slanted in favor of the the SK and mafia.

I agree on the last part. But since we do have some people posting, we should focus on them. I see no reason not to lynch mgn, if he is vanilla we have not lost the most important player, and if he is mafia it's a big step forward.

About the other part- well, we can do a vote count ourselves I guess..

[curiouskarmadog]

[quote="HazzelQ']I agree on the last part. But since we do have some people posting, we should focus on them. I see no reason not to lynch mgn, if he is vanilla we have not lost the most important player, and if he is mafia it's a big step forward.

About the other part- well, we can do a vote count ourselves I guess..[/quote]

whoa wait a minute...I do not want to lynch anyone who might be townie. who is our most important player? Do you think MGM might be townie?

Hazzle this post has come off quite scummy, almost seems like you are covering your butt if he comes up town..please address..

[curiouskarmadog]

stupid quotes

[HazzelQ]

[quote="HazzelQ']I agree on the last part. But since we do have some people posting, we should focus on them. I see no reason not to lynch mgn, if he is vanilla we have not lost the most important player, and if he is mafia it's a big step forward.

About the other part- well, we can do a vote count ourselves I guess..

whoa wait a minute...I do not want to lynch anyone who might be townie. who is our most important player? Do you think MGM might be townie?

Hazzle this post has come off quite scummy, almost seems like you are covering your butt if he comes up town..please address..[/quote][/quote]

Of course he MIGHT be townie. I don't see your point? How could I know he is scum for sure? I can't cover up something as I do not know more than you. Please explain?

[HazzelQ]

agreed- damn quotes!
this is what I wanted to write except for quoting your post:

"Of course he MIGHT be townie. I don't see your point? How could I know he is scum for sure? I can't cover up something as I do not know more than you. Please explain?"

[HazzelQ]

oh, and about the "most important player" - I mixed up what setting this was, sorry. All townies are just as important, of course.

[Mgm]

So now you claim vanilla townie and decide to abandon your plan to come to a quick lynch? Why- because the focus is on you! please.

I didn't plan to come to a "quick lynch" - that's usually a synonym for rush job. I wanted the town to come to a lynch before the deadline hit. As CKD said, we don't have enough active players and I don't see that improving in the next two days, that's why I'm abandoning the idea. Unless something major happens (like someone claiming scum), we're not going to get a well-informed lynch.

As for the claim, someone asked me if it was a claim. So I just agreed to spill the beans. It's not likely someone is going to claim something else, so it has absolutely no weight at all - one way or the other.

[Stewie]

Here is the current problem with this game. We a.) don’t have enough active posters and b.) don’t have a Mod that can check the internet regularly. In a game set up like this one where we have a deadline, we need a Mod who is on top of this game. WE NEED PRODS! What should we do? Is there a back up Mod? DO we just grin and bear it?


We need the thoughts, votes, and feed back of every person in this game. If not, this game is heavily slanted in favor of the the SK and mafia.

I agree on the last part. But since we do have some people posting, we should focus on them. I see no reason not to lynch mgn, if he is vanilla we have not lost the most important player, and if he is mafia it's a big step forward.

unvote, vote: HazzelQ

He says that if he is town, we have not lost the most important player, which is a crappy argument on a game where every town role is vanilla. If he is town, he would see how this argument would also apply towards his lynch, and would therefore not use it.

Also, try to condense your posts into one. You could have said what you said in five posts in just one.

[Mirth]

Things I don't like:

Not having a lynch actually starts to sound like a good option. We don't have enough information to make well thought out decision despite my efforts which has too much chance of resulting in a mislynch.

I mentioned that we dont necessarily need a lynch to go with every kill multiple times before this. I guess I'm feeling frustrated that all of my points have to be repeated multiple times before anyone comments on them. Or maybe I'm not too happy with your sudden unprescedented change of opinion. I'll decide this once I've heard more.

I agree on the last part. But since we do have some people posting, we should focus on them. I see no reason not to lynch mgn, if he is vanilla we have not lost the most important player, and if he is mafia it's a big step forward.

Contrary to chess games, townies are not expendible. I understand that you may have this confused with a newbie game (as you seem to say in Post 112, though why on earth you'd think a newbie game is nightless and has a serial killer, is beyond me), but still, townies are not expendible. Not even in newbie games. There, one mislynched townie = LYLO, especially since power roles are not guarenteed to exist. So I sort of fail to see why its okay to lynch townies in any game. I might be willing to let this comment slide, and I understand you already answered, but I still don't like it.