Newbie 476: Slow, slow, slow, then FAST and over. Damn.

[havok95]

Well havok95, because my suspect doesn't post, what can I say

Scum hunt. There are two scum; find the other one or try to convince us of why you think stephy is scum (by the way, you shouldn't think she is scum, because it's WIFOM)

And Korlash, that was the impression I got of jmar's OMGUS vote, that it was just pretty random. And I missed the sentence "I'm not ready to seriously vote someone yet" the first time, so I guess that's how he thinks of it too.

[Holy]

Well havok95, because my suspect doesn't post, what can I say

Scum hunt. There are two scum; find the other one or try to convince us of why you think stephy is scum (by the way, you shouldn't think she is scum, because it's WIFOM)

Why I shouldn't suspect Her? That's my opinion, my free rights to suspect someone...
Okay I'll try to give longer explanation of my opinion... This is MAFIA game, in this game we try to find who is the mafia, every little suspicion might lead us to the mafia, even if we end up wrong and lynch a townie, we can learn the progress till why the hell that could happen (BTW, Her example is if we lynch a townie in day 1 --> Why is her example is a townie, I'd like to think we can get a mafia in day 1 --> maybe it's just my positive thinking here...)

And really, beside stephy_nz's lack of post, mith also not contributing about his opinion that much either, he still at FOS stage at the moment.
Mainly his posts are explanations about technical issue of the game, I'll list them:
1. about random votes
2. about No Lynch and the consequences
3. demonstrating how to get responses without a vote
4. about dice roll vote and random votes
5. about town/mafia roles probability
6. about gut issue
Sorry mith, I'm joking...
Well, I'll wait till you get back from Brighton, I want to know more about your thoughts of your suspects too...(whoever is that atm)

[MeMe]

Vote Count

jmar

(1):

Sir Tornado

Sir Tornado

(1):

jmar

No Lynch

(1):

stephy_nz

not voting

(4):

havok95, Holy, Korlash, mith

Four = lynch.

[jmar]

Of course I can see why its WIFOM- that doesn't change the point that I needed to bring it up in order for my theory to make sense. I only mentioned it- I know theres a good possibility there's not even a doc.

I "jumped on" Korlash? I asked him a question. I don't know about you, but if he comes out first page and says he thinks someone is town, I want an explanation as to why because I certainly had no read on stephy at that point. I also think it's pretty suspicious of Holy to suspect stephy no much and not be able to post anything until she does when we've got pages of discussion under our belt now.

On to OMGUS, I really think it's laughable that this has gotten this much attention. I thought OMGUS votes were supposed to be fun and random. If they're such a huge scum tell as you say they are, then why do they even exist? Also I didn't defend Sir Tornado, I used him as an example.

Huge FOS

on havok. I think you're really reaching here and I was willing to forgive at first but now you're just jumping on me without really having an argument. When I defend myself, you say it's exactly how a mafia would react? What was I supposed to do, not respond to your accusations? And your quickness to defend Korlash makes me suspicious too. If I had to vote with my gut right now it'd be havok and Korlash for scum team.

[havok95]

What was I supposed to do, not respond to your accusations?

Defend yourself like Korlash, mith and Sir_Tornado did. Without acting as defensive as you are.

Okay I'll try to give longer explanation of my opinion... This is MAFIA game, in this game we try to find who is the mafia, every little suspicion might lead us to the mafia, even if we end up wrong and lynch a townie, we can learn the progress till why the hell that could happen (BTW, Her example is if we lynch a townie in day 1 --> Why is her example is a townie, I'd like to think we can get a mafia in day 1 --> maybe it's just my positive thinking here...)

The only reason you have given for suspecting her is that you think what she's doing is something a mafioso would do. THAT IS WIFOM. That is why you shouldn't really suspect her.

[jmar]

Defend yourself without acting defensive. Gotcha. /sarcasm

[Korlash]

lolz...

[havok95]

Defending yourself--use logic to answer my questions, the way you did with my accusations about your OMGUS vote, and the way Korlash/mith responded.

Acting defensive--Acting like you have something to hide. (I.E., scumminess)

That's what I meant; I apologize for not being clear. Seriously, your post was exactly what I was looking for as a response to my post in terms of defensiveness. In all fairness, Holy is starting to act the same way, and you also have some "pro-town" points in my book as well, which is why I won't vote for you unless you

really

trip my scumdar.

[Korlash]

You hear that guys... Be careful not to trip his Scumdar.. it could fall and break a hip... ahhh... man it may have been lame but it was so worth it... yeah... Zing...

Also.. no offense.. but you keep using me and Mith as examples and yet you didn't really give me anything to defend... so I keep getting the feeling your trying to gain my trust and what not which is kinda suspicious cause you don't know me and I don't know you... Just a thing I keep seeing as fishy...

[havok95]

My bad. I meant mith and Sir_Tornado. I agreed with your logic about "gut" votes, but you were just agreeing with mith, not responding to me outright.

Oh, and the only way to offend me is to keep making awful puns. Seriously, that could get you lynched.

[Holy]

Okay I'll try to give longer explanation of my opinion... This is MAFIA game, in this game we try to find who is the mafia, every little suspicion might lead us to the mafia, even if we end up wrong and lynch a townie, we can learn the progress till why the hell that could happen (BTW, Her example is if we lynch a townie in day 1 --> Why is her example is a townie, I'd like to think we can get a mafia in day 1 --> maybe it's just my positive thinking here...)

The only reason you have given for suspecting her is that you think what she's doing is something a mafioso would do. THAT IS WIFOM. That is why you shouldn't really suspect her.

Oh, and the only way to offend me is to keep making awful puns. Seriously, that could get you lynched.

I think she's doing something a mafioso would do, and that's why I shouldn't really suspect her... Really I'm a little confuse here...
And I understand your meaning about WIFOM, I've read them. But I thought WIFOM although confusing true/false results, might end up correct...

Anyway if you're really going to lynch someone just because you can't accept the puns, well... this is worse than the WIFOM thing...

I'm still waiting more words from mith here...

Overall for right now: Korlash, jmar, Sir Tornado, havok95 posts are still acceptable for me (their reasons and their answers). Accept for havok95's last post about will lynching someone for their bad puns... IGMEOY for this.

[Holy]

Sorry I mean *Except not Accept (correcting last post)

[Korlash]

Whats wrong with awful puns? ;_;

...

Thats like... half my act... What are your feelings on oximorons?

[mith]

Holy, I gave my "list" (as far as I have one right now) two posts ago. However, I'll update it now with the new developments.

Suspects

Holy - Something doesn't sit right with me in her last few posts. I'll have to look more closely on reread, but my "gut" is saying she's scum.
Korlash - The thing with Sir Tornado bothers me. He's posting a lot though, and he hasn't made any major slip-ups as far as scumminess goes (his lack of math skillz are a null tell as far as I'm concerned).
stephy_nz - I have very little read on her at the moment. She's here in the list because of the FOS earlier in the game, and because the other three are lower.

Not so much

jmar - My gut has its eye on him (that sounds painful), but I've been happy with his posts overall.
havok95 - I disagree with his OMGUS stance (unannounced OMGUS votes

can

be a scum tell (though closer to null) - announced OMGUS votes at the very beginning of the game are no different than random votes), but I'm happy with his posts as well. He seems to be trying to hunt scum.
Sir Tornado - I don't think he would've backed down on the dice voting so quickly as scum. Scum tend to have trouble backing down from things, even irrelevant ones.

Beacon of innocent goodness and love

mith

More detailed post later/tomorrow, lots to do today.

[Holy]

Holy, I gave my "list" (as far as I have one right now) two posts ago. However, I'll update it now with the new developments.

Your two posts ago...? post #59...? And thank you for your new developments post, that's what I meant about more words of your opinion (in this case post #59?).

Actually

what I want to confirm is where were you right now, and can I see that your FOS still unchanged and you add one more i.e. me.

I have a question for mith: If I'm not asking a bit too much for more explanation about 'Newbie 476' players from you, would I stay at your 'Not so much' list?

[Holy]

Edit last post: *"and I can see..." not "can I see..."

But it could be read both ways if you want to...(still have same essence).

[jmar]

Correct me if I misinterpreted this, but did Holy just ask if doing something would get her off Mith's scum list? I think I read that right. Could be wrong. If so that sounds a little scummy to me... just something that caught my eye. Thoughts? Explanations?

[Korlash]

Yay for lack of math skills not meaning anything! Boo for Sir Torny thing...

And I really can't seem to make sense of what Holy just asked... something about if she hadn't been asking for more info would she have stayed on the not so much list...

The only reason I could see asking this would be to judge what Mith says... But I don't know.. this is one of those things where I actually have no clue whats going on....

[Holy]

Correct me if I misinterpreted this, but did Holy just ask if doing something would get her off Mith's scum list? I think I read that right. Could be wrong. If so that sounds a little scummy to me... just something that caught my eye. Thoughts? Explanations?

And I really can't seem to make sense of what Holy just asked... something about if she hadn't been asking for more info would she have stayed on the not so much list...

jmar and Korlash, Nope! What I want to know is, is He FOS me because of my asking for more of his developed thoughts or because of my lately posts in answering to havok95 about my FOS on stephy_nz? (Actually, where is She actually, sigh...). Or even because of any different reasons at all, that's what I want to know...

[Sir Tornado]

unvote

I have a question for mith: If I'm not asking a bit too much for more explanation about 'Newbie 476' players from you, would I stay at your 'Not so much' list?

I don't like this part.

[jmar]

Me either, although I'm having trouble understanding anything she says.

[mith]

Yeah, Holy, I got what you were saying, but the way you worded it was pretty scummy. If you want to ask "Why are you FOSing me??", ask "Why are you FOSing me??". The way you worded it suggests you are more concerned with staying on my good side.

(Also, I didn't FOS you - I put you at the top of my list. Personal preference, but I tend to reserve the FOS for specific scummy things, or to get a reaction. Being at the top of my list is a bit more serious; unless for some reason I'm not voting - like here, as I wanted to reread - I will almost always be voting for whoever is at the top of my list. Watch:

Vote: Holy

.)

As for why I put you at the top of my list, I gave my reason at the time in that post. Something didn't feel right in your posts. After rereading, what bothers me is that:

1. You started off the game not posting much of substance, aside from your FOS on stephy_nz.
2. When I called you in this, you claimed to be waiting on stephy_nz and havok95 as well (even though there was plenty else to talk about).
3. When questioned about stephy_nz by havok95, you gave them impression of not actually caring whether she's scum or not.
4. You then tried to compare your posting history to mine (?) and said you were waiting for more from me - fair enough on that last bit, but this seems like an attempt to shift focus to me or even buddy up to me (with the joking)... I can't even tell which, but it bothers me either way.

FOS: havok95

for the comment "by the way, you shouldn't think she is scum, because it's WIFOM".

(Aside/Rant: I highly recommend the recently bumped WIFOM thread in Mafia Discussion. WIFOM is a badly overused term. The origin is a specific type of argument: "I wouldn't _____ if I were scum." This is a WIFOM argument - the player in question could have done _____ with the intention of making this argument to "prove" his/her innocence. An argument being WIFOM doesn't even make it invalid; it's just a shortcut way of saying "You

might

_____."

What havok95 is calling WIFOM isn't, at all. And his usage is dangerous. Essentially what he's saying is "You find something scummy. That's WIFOM. Scum wouldn't do something scummy or they would get caught. So it's not really scummy." Which is silly. A scummy act is not

proof

of guilt, but it is

evidence

. Without such evidence, we would have very little to go on.)

[Korlash]

What he said...

[havok95]

My argument about Holy's argument being WIFOM is sort of the opposite of the traditional WIFOM argument, I think. Holy said she wanted to find/lynch scum, even though it was her first game, so since stephy_nz wanted to no-lynch in her first game, she must be scum. That entire argument rests on the assumption that Holy is town.

Simply turn this:

origin is a specific type of argument: "I wouldn't _____ if I were scum."

into this:

I wouldn't NOT __________ if I were NOT scum

And you'll see what I mean. By the way, I hope it's obvious that I was joking when I said I'd lynch Korlash for bad puns. Also, mith, I realize my logic about jmar's OMGUS vote is faulty. I've also considered the possibility that I'm only following the jmar FOS based on my gut, not really on evidence, so I'm not prepared to vote just yet.

[Holy]

Yeah, Holy, I got what you were saying, but the way you worded it was pretty scummy. If you want to ask "Why are you FOSing me??", ask "Why are you FOSing me??". The way you worded it suggests you are more concerned with staying on my good side.

Hm, that's the way I'm asking, what can I say... I'm a person that when I read someone words and I understand/can accept it, It's okay for me no matter how the way they sound it (vice versa with my words). And about that concerned thing, nope, that's not how I play.

(Also, I didn't FOS you - I put you at the top of my list. Personal preference, but I tend to reserve the FOS for specific scummy things, or to get a reaction. Being at the top of my list is a bit more serious; unless for some reason I'm not voting - like here, as I wanted to reread - I will almost always be voting for whoever is at the top of my list. Watch:

Vote: Holy

.)

Hmm, FOS stands for Finger of Suspicion, and I'm at your Suspects list atm, I thought that's just the same here... Well s-o-r-r-y for my miss interpretation then... Just change that FOS word with 'suspects' then, then read over...

1. You started off the game not posting much of substance, aside from your FOS on stephy_nz.
2. When I called you in this, you claimed to be waiting on stephy_nz and havok95 as well (even though there was plenty else to talk about).
3. When questioned about stephy_nz by havok95, you gave them impression of not actually caring whether she's scum or not.
4. You then tried to compare your posting history to mine (?) and said you were waiting for more from me - fair enough on that last bit, but this seems like an attempt to shift focus to me or even buddy up to me (with the joking)... I can't even tell which, but it bothers me either way.

As I mention before, I've read everyone posts, and at that time, their words is still acceptable for me (except one at that time), and about point #3: true, I want to gave that impression, there's a probability she might be...so.., but I'll leave it for now, because the person is not even here.
For point #4: true it was an attempt to shift focus to you, you have scum probability too, I want everyone doesn't forget about this probability.
Please note this, I'm not trying to shifting anyone to think that someone is scum, I'll

test

everyone equally if necessary, and if you notice my first start is stephy (I still think her word suspicious) but because no further explanation from her, my start became like point #1 mith saying, not much of substance. Actually I don't want to inform you this, but: okay, my 2nd test was on havok95(still no reply, and his WIFOM thing for words from some players a bit doesn't make sense for me, just a bit suspicion for now...), my 3rd test is on you, mith.
For others, patient..., you're still on my queue...