Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:37 am

Post by Claus »

Wow, no one posted, and I was away for eating AND gym... oh well.

Day 2:

Setael:

302 - Opens with an accusation of Kuribo, D_O, and streeflo as non-participants of the S2 lynch. Don't like this much, specially since D_O is already revealed as mafia, but it is not a terrible post in isolation.

314 - I don't like this post attacking Kuribo. Kuribo is a rash player, and some questions in this posts seem uninformative and tailored to smear dirt on kuribo: "Are you assuming S2 was not a power role?" - not town, not scum can know this. The next question is leading. The last paragraph crowns it: Setael accuses Kuribo of blaming the lurkers, when she did the very same thing in her opening post.

325 - "How do you explain the No Lynch if someone2 is town?" - The intent behind this question is obvious: if S2 is town, scum would take the chance of jumping on the easy "deadline lynch". Well, two of the scum were AFK during the deadline phase (LML/Thok and D_O), and both have already started attacking S2 today.

Because I have this growing feeling that S2 is indeed town, this reads to me like someone who has insider knowledge of why the lynch failed: because their buddies were not around. Setael-scum would distract attention from their buddies AND dirty S2 with this statement.

352 - Don't know what to make of this post.
368 - beastly is called a non-entity by lowell - I disagree - , and setael, who posted a lot, was barely mentioned.
373 - Votes S2 after Kuribo's claim
406 - Likes S2 better, But would vote vaugn per Thesp's comments. Thesp comments also address thok and RW, but these are not mentioned.
417 - Attacks rishi for low content vote on vaugn. Tries to link S2 and rishi.

Streeflo/Ythill:

- 318: Votes Vaugn for his bad posts. I can't find a problem with this post right now.
- 334: Vaugn responds and Streeflo unvotes. Sounds okay.
- 345: Votes Kuribo. I don't like the stated reasons in this post. Could be just OMGUS.
- 346: Justifies previous vote better.
- 368: Is not mentioned at all by lowell.
- 376: Keeps vote on Kuribo post claim.

Someone2:

- 303: DGB (lowell) quickly jumps into the "let's lynch S2 again!"
- 304: complains about a "continuity lynch" - I find this a reasonable objection.
- 312: D_O Supports a someone2 lynch. At least 2 confirmed scum are now supporting the lynch.
- 362: Votes Kuribo for supporting lurker lynch and following setael on the rishi vote. Seems okay.
- 375: Unvote kuribo post claim.
- 407: Makes a player list. This list largely makes sense given the recent postings. The "recent replacements are neutral" sounds newbiesh play, and S2 did plenty of that already.
- 411: There are good cases for Vaugn and Kuribo, and still Thok votes for S2. Hrmmm.
- 424: accuses vaughn for a scummy posts. Says that he saw LML as relatively townie.


Summary of D2:

Streeflo is largely inexistant, and his few posts are okay-looking. S2 is attacked by Thok and S_O, but Vaughn and Kuribo take the spotlight, so we don't see enough of this attack. It sounds legit, though. Setael participates on lots of attacks, and some of her posting is slightly scummy looking.

I'd say that on D2, the order is:
- Seta
- S2
- Streeflo

With Streeflo and S2 near each other, and Seta much more scummy.
(on D1, Seta was more scummy, with Streeflo close behind, and S2 way
behind).

More details:

Setael:
Takes part on the S2, Kuribo AND Vaughn attacks, and throws some mud at rishi.

Ythill
- Thok and RW don't comment at all on Streeflo. Streeflo has some interactions/attacks with vaughn and kuribo. The ones with vaughn are okay. Then dissappears (and gets replaced D3).

S2 - Scum (D_O and DGB) quickly jump to attack him at the start of the day.
Votes kuribo, and then unvotes. Cheers and hammer the Vaughn bandwagon, but Vaughn had it coming.

=============================

Okay. I think I won't have time to re-read the next days right now, but
that is definitely coming. On sunday or maybe monday. I want to re-read
some of Ythill before deciding on my vote. But It's getting harder
to unconvince me of S2's townhood, in spite of initially finding his claim strange (changing your mind FTW).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:12 am

Post by Setael »

Claus, a lot of your reasons for suspecting me are based on WIFOM. I can't argue with them, but I can point out that part of it is based on broken logic.
claus wrote:It helps that I can see Seta trying to target Thesp, who led two wagons on her scumbuddies, but not me, who had a "good feeling about her", and then S2, who was getting low in the charts in regards to scummyness.
You are arguing that if I was scum I would target Thesp over you because you had a "good feeling" about me, and yet Thesp said this not long before day ended:
Thesp wrote:Here's the thing - I don't think Setael is scum, largely because of how he went after someone2. I don't think Setael would attack someone2 like he did while Thok was doing the same (though less vehemently), it's not consistent with my experience of how scum go after town.
Basically, it feels like you're rereading with me as your chosen scum and just looking for ways to force my play into the mold.

Regardless, I think this game is in the bag, even if I'm mislynched today. I find it extremely unlikely TheStranger was targeted twice, so the 2 no kills clear Thesp. Claus is cleared as doc - considering how nothing seemed to add up, I don't see scum fake claiming doc in his situation. Plus he comes off as town to me, even though his read of me is wrong. I also think it's unlikely that scum would target Thesp twice in a row, which means TheStranger is likely telling the truth about his role. It doesn't make sense to me that he would come up with a gambit to no kill immediately after replacing in, while planning to later claim BPT. So to me anyway, it's between me and Ythill.

vote: Ythill


Ythill is obviously better at presenting his thoughts/arguments than I am, but even if I am mislynched today, he can only kill off one of what I see as 3 confirmed townies and he can be lynched tomorrow and the town will still win.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:41 am

Post by Claus »

See sig. I have to be away from MS. It may be some days, or who knows.

Really sorry about that. Please replace me.

Gr. I hate myself right now.
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:48 am

Post by The Fonz »

Claus wrote:See sig. I have to be away from MS. It may be some days, or who knows.

Really sorry about that. Please replace me.

Gr. I hate myself right now.
Don't worry about it. And I'll do my best for the rest of you to get a replacement ASAP.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:00 am

Post by Claus »

Wait Fonz. If possible, wait for two days. I may be able to sort things out. I will let you know if I don't. I will not post in the meanwhile, but I think my last few posts were enough for the town to chew on.

Thanks for the comprehension, btw.
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:34 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

You can have it back any time, Claus. I'll fill in meanwhile.
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:34 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Re-read time!
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:40 am

Post by The Fonz »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:You can have it back any time, Claus. I'll fill in meanwhile.
What he said- ABR replaces Claus, with the proviso that he is willing to step aside should Claus wish to return to the game upon sorting out of his RL issues.

Which, let's face it, is awesome.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:41 am

Post by Ythill »

That was quite an explosion from Claus: lengthy analysis, a sprung trap, and even a claim. Too bad he had to bail, I had some questions for him.

@ Seta: I don't agree with your reliance on disbelieving a player could be targeted twice in a row. I think that it's reasonable play for scum who believes there to be a doc in the game. I also don't agree with your complete acceptance of Claus' claim. The logic that finds me definitively scum as the end result of this process of elimination is only as good as the reasons for elimination and they are far from airtight.

That said, I do agree with your process of elimination when concerning
today’s vote
.

The following scenarios, in order of likelihood, make sense to me: Seta targeting Thesp twice, Claus targeting S2/S3 twice and fake claiming, Thesp targeting S2/S3 twice. I am no longer willing to believe that Stranger is scum, simply because now that we have other possible explanations of why things happened the way they did, I can no longer dismiss the anomaly of S2 somehow submitting a kill before deadline while absent to the point of being replaced.

I believe it is imperative to keep pressure on scum tonight, regardless of whether that person is Seta, myself, Claus, or Thesp. This is best accomplished by a simple statement from our claimed doc.
ABR, please explicitly agree to the following: if I am lynched and come up town, you will randomly select between Thesp and Seta as your target for protection. If Seta is lynched and comes up town you will randomly select between Thesp and myself as your target for protection. Flip a coin or something.


This should reveal our remaining scum by tomorrow, regardless of who it is. I feel strongly enough about this plan that I would rather be mislynched with agreement from ABR than live without that agreement and I really can’t see any reason for townie ABR to disagree so long as I am the one lynched. Here’s to hoping I’m right.

vote: Ythill
I'm @ L-1. If anyone hammers me before ABR responds, hang them tomorrow!
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:50 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

All right folks. I'm the doctor. Here's the plan:

Lynch Setael today, lynch someone2 tomorrow, celebrate the day after.

Vote Setael


The reason Setael is so sure that there's a doc is because she targeted someone else than the bulletproof townie and her kill was blocked. Considering that there is no role-blocker, she is right in assuming that there is a doc.

If she isn't mafia, than someone2 lied about being bulletproof, and we lynch him and win.
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:53 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

You fucking idiot Ythill. I'm not agreeing to SHIT. Unvote yourself immediately.
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:55 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I SWEAR that anyone who hammers that bastard will suffer a quick and unmourned death tomorrow. Especially Setael or someone2.

Here's how its going to go: we kill Set, and then we kill someone2.
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:57 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

By someone2, I mean thestranger of course.
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Post by Ythill »

Unvote.
Okay, I guess I was wrong. I'll explain...
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:17 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Seeing Setael fishing for a role-blocker to determine whether she has to deal with a RB or a doc just reeks of scumminess. Ythill, why is your vote not on Set ?
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:24 pm

Post by Ythill »

Claus wrote:Bang. I'm town.
I wrote:That was quite an explosion from Claus...
As a bomb, you would have agreed with me immediately and hammered, been targeted as the NK, and won us the game. It was a risk but I think it was worth it. The question is, why would Claus, as the doc, have bread-crumbed like that? If Seta is town, it will not be Stranger hanging tomorrow.

vote: Setael
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:26 pm

Post by Ythill »

Cross-posted. Does the above answer your question?
Record:
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Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:30 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

The only answer I needed was that vote.
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:34 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Enough talk guys, we need a hammer.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:59 pm

Post by TheStranger »

I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I think Claus is scum. His claim was misleading, and if scum did target me twice, they could easily claim doctor without any sort of verification.



Recent posts have me suspecting 2 scum remain, namely Ythill and Claus. I think the number of protown powerroles suggest that scum would need extra for balance.

Ythill chose me to claim over claus, allowing claus to go last. If I had been targeted twice, they could expect a claim of bulletproof. After all, why would S2 be doc protected? Docs tend to protect the most protown players. I was a good target because there was little suspicion of me, and it's hard to make a good case on a replacement.

Additionally, Claus's abscence is way too convenient. And I don't like Ythill's response to the situation. It seems fake. ABR is rushing the lynch and Ythill is playing along. Ythill plans with ABR, but when ABR refuses he immediately drops his opinion on what should be done. ABR threatens us with DEATH if we hammer Ythill. Seems awfully interested in keeping him alive?

Their play looks like planning. If they are scum it makes perfect sense for ABR to suggest me as the alternative lynch. Their play makes perfect sense if we look at it as scum trying to communicate with his new partner. Claus's claim and absence is a ploy, and Ythill's play is a ruse.

I think we should lynch one of them.
Unvote, Vote:Ythill
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:01 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Wake up. There's only one scum left.
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:02 pm

Post by TheStranger »

It looks like thesp must decide what to believe.
He stated that I had no place in a society whose most fundamental rules I ignored and that I could not appeal to the same human heart whose elementary response I knew nothing of
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:02 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

TheStranger wrote:It looks like thesp must decide what to believe.
There's one scum left. Hellooo
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:06 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Look, you're a noob, and I respect that. I shouldn't have said we would lynch you tomorrow. My bad.

But you see, it is imperative that we lynch Setael today. Does this register at all ?
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:13 pm

Post by TheStranger »

I don't like ABR's preassuring. He gives no reasoning to his haste, and no argument to debate my opinion. He's rushing because Claus hasn't asked to be replaced in any other threads. Because he think's they can get a mislynch before he has to post again in his other games. I say we wait for claus to ask to be replaced in all his games, before we can be sure he really did have to leave.

If Setael or myself are the only scum as ABR believes, then there shouldn't have to be any fear a quicklynch of Ythill. Thesp is the most widely regarded as protown, I'm sure he'll judge fairly.

If I'm wrong than someone should be able to explain to me why.
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