Newbie 480: Game Over!

[peapod]

Eek.

Alright, I'm going to ask someone to replace for me...I'm really sorry I haven't really been able to get into this.

Hope to play with you guys on another, less busy occasion. ):

[Erg0]

Finally, a response:

The overreaction aspect has been well explored, I didn't see a need to throw my two cents in as well at that point, because CS was already under plenty of pressure and I wasn't going to put him at lynch-1 for it. The appropriate thing to do at that point was look around for other topics of conversation.

But at that point you weren't prepared to defend him either. Surely if you thought that it wasn't scummy all the way through you may have played a bigger part on page 2?

I was happy to allow the pressure on CS to continue, but I wasn't prepared to put a third vote on him. I'm glad you recognise that I wasn't defending him, though.

Quite often the explanation for someone doing something really odd like freaking out on two votes is that they don't know any better. If you're going to freak out at two votes, you'll do it as a townie or as scum. Nobody wants to be lynched, after all. There's no question that it's overly defensive, but can you present a reason why it's

scummy

?

It wasnt just the over defensiveness, it was everything from and after the second request to take my vote down. A couple of people (including yourself?) told him that it was nothing to be worried about and its just to generate discussion. But he asked for a second time and OMGUS me purely on the basis I was voting him thats what made me think he was scummy.

Hmm that's a fair point. As I said, any defence I made for CS was incidental to my discussion of my position on Zeek.

Likewise, I don't necessarily think that Zeek is scummy, just that his page 1 argument wasn't as valid as others took it to be. The OMGUS vote isn't helping that situation, though.

Right time to clear this one up. You do know were talking about the OMGUS vote against me and leetonicon, don't you, because the leet one looked random enough. The only reason I ask is because when you talked about it you quoted post 12 (?) Which was the one he OMGUS leet.

I personally think the OMGUS vote was a big part of this and was a desperate scum trying to find a way out

See my post yesterday in response to this. You are correct that CS's vote on you was OMGUSy.

I'm mildly suspicious of leetonicon, as he's kind of stayed out of the way while keeping his vote on CS. I don't like the way he immediately speculated on a CS/Porochaz pairing on page 1; it's far too early to be forming conspiracy theories. Still looking at everyone else

Whilst were here, he kept his vote on CS because it was random, at the start the only person to go against was CS. However I agree with you that his theory was strange and slightly to early.

Unfortunately he's being replaced, so this probably won't go anywhere.

The Fos then the vote happened purely because I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight before voting, I looked and found my reasoning to be good enough to vote without any further explanation. I mean if your looking for a reason why I voted just look directly above that post.

That's what I figured.

[Erg0]

Unvote

I can't really get a read on Zeek right now because 90% of his posts are about me. I'd probably switch to leetonicon right now if he wasn't on his way out. Waiting for the replacements to arrive for now.

[Porochaz]

Yeah, hope to see you around peapod... I am however interested to hear what leetonicons replacement has to say... and what peapods replacement will now bring to the game...

[pablito]

destructor replaces leetonicon

[destructor]

Hi all. I'm in. I see a few familiar faces. *waves at Erg0 and Ripley* =)

I'll have a read and post my thoughts soon.

I should probably

Unvote

too.

[Ripley]

Hello again destructor. If that rabbit of yours values its life, I advise it to keep a safe distance from mine, at all times.

[Porochaz]

Ok we shouldnt stop posting just because were waiting for a replacement... Zeek, you haven't posted anything beyond your name correction in a while so what are your thoughts on Erg0 since the last time you posted? and destructor, Im sure you would of posted this anyway but what your read on the game just now?

and CS has gone a little quiet since the pressures off...

[ZeekLTK]

"Can you give quotes where Ripley and Porochaz agree with you?

In post 53 I said:

"Or possibly another answer is that he is scum and knows that CS is town, so he is free to defend him because if somehow we do lynch CS then erg0 can be like "hey look, I was never trying to get him lynched, I'm not suspicious"."

In post 61 Ripley said (talking to CS):

"Scum buddying up to a townie is the oldest trick in the book. If you're town, you can see by your own reaction here how well it has worked. Erg0 has gained your support, which will be valuable if you survive. If you don't survive he looks good for sticking his neck out to support a townie who was under pressure. I'm not saying Erg0 is scum; he could perfectly well be genuine. But you should be aware of the dangers of assuming anyone is town for this reason."

In post 70 Porochaz said (quoting my post, #53):

"I think this post sums up what I am thinking currently, he's trying to be both sides of the fence and it's not working very well. His latter posts whilst having substance don't sit right, in post 54 he is sorta defending CS and then says what both me and CS have been saying about leet. Whilst you suggested CS was a bit panicky early on (according to Zeek, Im going to go back and check this) and were unsure about him, you've defended him to quite an extent but there is nowhere in this thread showing why you changed your mind... It doesn't sit right with me at all and I'm going to go and look at the thread again to look at some of the content in your posts but I am already thinking your scum. Major Fos: Erg0 whilst I read over and then will probably vote right afterwards"

----------

Ok we shouldnt stop posting just because were waiting for a replacement... Zeek, you haven't posted anything beyond your name correction in a while so what are your thoughts on Erg0 since the last time you posted? and destructor, Im sure you would of posted this anyway but what your read on the game just now?

and CS has gone a little quiet since the pressures off...

Odd that you say this... it hasn't been that long since I've posted (late Sunday night... it's only Tuesday afternoon now)

And what have you contributed in the meantime?


Post 91: "K Thanks, thats fair enough I guess"

Post 94: "Tis ok, your going through it the right way and I hope your problems are resolved soon"

Post 97: "Sorry I keep doing that... I usually realise before I press the post button and change it, I dont really know why I do it, so Im sorry Ill try and post Zeek from now on... "

Post 103: "Yeah, hope to see you around peapod... I am however interested to hear what leetonicons replacement has to say... and what peapods replacement will now bring to the game..."

And then your most recent post which I quoted.

I guess you are posting, but you are not providing anything worthwhile to the game. Now your randomly trying to make it seem like I am lurking by calling me out for "not posting" (even though it has barely been a full day since my last content related post), while your last 5 posts have contributed absolutely nothing to the game.

And you completely ignored my post (83) which was mostly questioning your vote against erg0...

[Porochaz]

Ok I was trying to get the convo back up and running... when I said you hadnt posted for a while I was meaning in term of the posts you hadnt posted anything (whether chatty or not) in 22 posts. You also missed my big post 87 and my post 89 where I ask a question relating to the game and in what way did Erg0 mean it.

In the last 15 posts you'll notice that only Erg0 has provided a substantial post due to our drop outs, I think its fair to say we can say goodbye to folk who are retiring... so counting 2 of those posts were to say goodbye, 1 of those posts was apologising for getting your name wrong, 1 was saying to Erg0 "ok I can understand where your coming from with that" (post 91) and the last one trying to get the game back on track (what I thought could be called a substantial post, correct me if Im wrong...)

Now before I posted 107 when was your last substantial post? I think 83 or is there something there that I'm missing?

[destructor]

Hello again destructor. If that rabbit of yours values its life, I advise it to keep a safe distance from mine, at all times.

Oh, it's cool. My bunny and Max go way back. They shared a cage when they were kittens. =D

... and destructor, Im sure you would of posted this anyway but what your read on the game just now?

I've just finished my read, and to be honest, I feel I need to do it again before I can say anything meaningful. Part of this may have something to do with it being around 1am when I started reading! =/

My first impression is that the game started off with quite a few reactionary comment, which in turn caused some confusion, which makes things a bit hard to read right now, but at least it sparked some decent discussion. I'll go over the thread once more, consolidate my notes and maybe do something like a PBPA.

[Civil Scum]

I've been pretty much waiting on the two replacements. My vote is nearing confirmation on Leet, but I'd still like to hear from the replacements. I don't understand this bickering about who's been posting and who hasn't. This doesn't seem very productive.

Vote: Civil Scum to beat anyone else from making the obvious vote.

Justification for a random vote?

[qoute="leet"]
Hmmm.... I've been wine-in-front-of-me-ing for a while trying to determine what to make of what's been done so far. The fact that Porachaz voted for CS to put him at L-2 slightly early in the game suggested to me that they might be connected. (And actually, CS's first request struck me as the reaction of someone new who didn't want to be the first day lynch which indicates nothing of scumminess or not; the second request (as was pointed out by others) is a little bit stranger) The fact the we now have two L-2 bandwagons appears to be a good thing for the town, but the fact that both wagons (Noob question: is wagon the appropriate term at L-2 on day 1 or does it have to be L-1 to be considered a wagon?) are unstable in the sense that each wagon contains a vote from the person being threatened by the other wagon and that makes me wonder whether CS's action was designed to look like he's helping the town while not actually helping as much as it would seem. So, I'm keeping my vote on Civil Scum for now, FOS'ing Porochaz and hoping one of the other uncommitted people either starts a 3rd bandwagon or pushes one of these two to L-1.
[/quote]

This was post 22. Ahead of himself to say the least.
I ask some questions, tell him he's off-his rocker a bit, and Porochaz agrees a bit in his next post.....then this one

I'll have to keep this short, which will hopefully as a side benefit keep it readable:

1) I may have made a mistake by FOS'ing Porochaz; I still think there's the possibility that Porochaz and Civil Scum are working together under the premise of Porochaz throwing Civil Scum under the bus, but the more I thought about it, the more it got into them having to have decided to try it right off that bat under the theory that it wouldn't look suspicious by looking suspicious... in other words, like I think I put it, it's more likely that i had a serious case of Wine-In-Front-Of-Me-ness and in hindsight, I should have tried probing someone else.

I made a mistake? I should have tried probing someone else, because...it attracted attention and wasn't real or made any sense. "...but the more I thought about it" (as in after Porochaz and I posted) "...the more it got into them having to have decided to try it off the bat.....wouldn't look suspicious by looking suspicious...like I think I put it, it's more likely that I had a serious case of WIFOM..." -->This has uncertainity (or a desire to seem uncertain->a total 180 in two consecutive posts) There is also a time sense past tense issue here with when his WIFOM ruminations took place. And he suddenly chose the other wine becuase of pressure.

Responding to Ripley's comments:
I agree that I'm probably being a bit impatient (reading through other games prior to playing this one really doesn't get across the time delay between postings). By stepping in, I just mean I expected one of the IC's to act as the voice of reason and point out that having only 3 people talking in a circle isn't getting us very far and maybe this was an unreasonable expectation on my part.

In response to Civil Scum's questions:
I was under the impression that having two competing bandwagons is normally how day 1 normally proceeds; looking at who joins which one and who switches between them gives more potential information to work from.

Except that just before this he was not thinking or reasoning along these lines. He wanted two bandwagons, an L-1, and IC discussion for D-2. He was not trying to generate more discussion or more potential information. Although that's what he says he was doing.

The issue being that with the two bandwagons being mutually exclusive means less information is available than if the two bandwagons were separated. This is why I'd want a 3rd wagon that was independent from these two (which would hopefully lead to one or more people leaving one of these wagons).

As far as the putting someone to L-1, I'm not sure I was right there. I was thinking that being at L-1 at day one was pretty safe but am now realizing I'm not sure on the tradeoffs for setting up a 1 for 1 trade. I'm also not sure what you mean about wanting you or Porochaz to be be at L-1 before hearing from them... I was assuming that being at L-1 would still leave you plenty of time to respond and also having someone at L-1 would hopefully stimulate conversation (see above bit of me being impatient).

Retraction of desire for either Porochaz or myself to be L-1'd. If he was so sure I was Scum #1, then why would he absolutely fold after I brought this up? He was of course ASSUMING that I would still have plenty of time to defend myself (even though he wanted me stone cold dead) and was hoping that the L-1 would STIMULATE conversation. His pointing to his impatience is even more troubling. Justifying irrational thoughts and overly-agressive behavior. It just seems odd...like hey it's okay that I'm overzealous and inventing reasoning after the fact, but it's just my self-proclaimed impatience.

I alread sort of posted my two cents on this next one, but here it is again.

Interesting on the prodding... I've been less online lately and haven't actually seen the email telling me I have a prod yet, but I see pablito's post (and now need to reread and see if anyone asked for me to be prodded or if Pabilito is actually being more proactive than most of the mods I had seen (i.e. I thought usually mods didn't prod until requested) Anyways:

I came in with certain assumptions which may or may not have had any validity to them. These are below and hopefully justify why I've said/done what I've done so far. More importantly, my original intention was to then lay out why I'm still most suspicous of CS, by laying out places where he appears to be strategically twisting what I've been saying, the problem being that when I went back to cite places where he did, if I look at them objectively, he's making certain assumptions which are opposite certain assumptions I was making so I don't agree with him, but I can't say it's as scummy as I was thinking.

Obviously this is all wrong. He mentions strategic twisting and a host of objective observations he made after looking at my assumptions and behavior. That is he MENTIONS them, but doesn't decribe or detail the content or actual process. He is only implying that there is a pro-town method behind everything he's done. But the actual substance is lacking, and I am not convinced that he was ever actively scum-hunting.

Assumptions below

1) Looking towards day 2 is essential. Basically: day 1 vote is a crapshoot but odds slightly favor lynching a townie even if the mafia don't obviousily attempt to influence the vote; this puts us at lylo (barring doc save) on day 2 and so we better have some insight into who's most likely to be scum to maximize the odds of getting to day 3

A slightly different defense of his post than he made earlier. Again, pro-town words, no pro-town feel.

2) 2 band wagons good. Assuming I did the math right, there are slightly better than even odds that with two bandwagons on day 1, one of them is scum; who jumps on and off a bandwagon may suggest who the other scum is.

Hate to be an ass, but the math is wrong.

2a) Having 2 incestous bandwagons is less good, especially if the only half the group was involved in discussing them. I was overlooking the fact that to get from L-2 to Lynch does require two more votes and unless the lynched is scum, at least that last vote is likely to be scum without a good justification for voting without much discussion (i.e. deadline), but if a deadline came up, I could see scum or town casting the 4th vote to avoid a no-lynch (which I'm assuming is always worse for the town on day 1 for newbie games)

So, now I need to go back everyone else's postings and figure out who I think the most suspicious person is. In the meantime,
Unvote

In this first portion, it sounds as if he knows I'm town. Don't know about that, but at any rate he doesn't really supply any concrete reasoning (here, or anywhere along the way) behind his unvote. Pretty much just happens becuase the heat was coming off.

eta weird... when I previewed my post, Porochaz's comments weren't there... believe me or not, but it looks like CS is completely off the hot seat.

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong, but why make this post unless you're scum? He's obviously aware of accusations around his wishy-washy logic and patterns. Why else make this post? To explain why it looked like he was following the flow and retracting, even though it was before porochaz unvoted? Why does it even matter? Only someone with something to hide would be concerned that their post's timing could be viewed as suspicious, right? Worried about attracting very specific suspicion before those suspicions are even brought up-> This doesn't seem town.

Well, there's my bit. Sorry about the essay.

Destructor-> I know this is sort of a weighted and unfair question, but what do you make of your predecesor's play thus far?


I'll go back through and look at the "missing turning point/reasoning" in/behind Ergo's stance on my behavior, this was a good point (can't remember who brought it up now-Porochaz maybe). But I really feel like it would have been a much more sensible scum move to poke and prod without voting, or keep slightly distant from me rather than be my attorney.

Perhaps Ergo is the type of person who would prefer that a newbie game run a better course than a D-1 lynch on noob-foul-ups... If I knew anything about his personality I could make a judgment call there.

I can't see myself retracting my vote for Leetonicon. There is something too insincere and FISHY about his logic and reasoning patterns.

[Erg0]

Let's try to keep things moving at least a little bit while we wait.

Vote: destructor

leeton's early conspiracy theories are the kind of thing that I've seen from newbie scum before, hoping to misdirect everyone early and keep the spotlight off themselves. This often results from not knowing the pace of the game on MS and thinking that the first wagon on Day 1 might lead to a lynch.

[Porochaz]

Ill be away from tomorrow afternoon till Monday morning

[peapod]

Nevermind. So I won't be replaced. >>

I'll

really

do my best to be an active member. Going for another read through of the thread...

[destructor]

I've just finished my reread. It's late, so I'm going to bed now, but I'll try to get something posted up within the next few days. I think I've got enough in my notes to do a PBPA.

[peapod]

Because it helps me (and probably others) think, list of all votes (and FoSes) that have been made so far:

Erg0 votes Zeek
Leet votes Civil Scum
Ripley votes Peapod
Porochaz votes Civil Scum
Zeek votes Ripley
Peapod votes Porochaz
Civil Scum votes leet
Civil Scum unvotes, votes Porochaz
Leet FoS Porochaz
Civil Scum unvotes, votes leet
Porochaz FoS leet
Leet unFoS Porochaz
Peapod unvotes.
Civil Scum suspects leet
Zeek votes erg0
Porochaz unvotes
Leet unvotes
Porochaz majorFoS erg0
Porochaz votes Erg0
Erg0 unvotes Zeek
Destructor unvotes
Erg0 votes destructor

Replaced by Garnasha

[Ripley]

Hoping peapod and destructor will be able to start playing soon. I can't see much point in trying to push on without them.

[destructor]

Sincerely sorry for the delay. PBPA follows. I'll try not to repeat too much of what has already been said.

Civil Scum

I realise CS's first post has been discussed a lot. In brief, regardless of what followed, this post is notable because he only asks one of the two players voting for him to unvote. I saw his vote for leet as an OMGUS random vote, but it is odd that he would do that after refering specifically to Porochaz. Post 20 was scummy. I don't know what his intention was exactly here, but it did come across as an attempt to share some pressure with Porochaz. He unvotes a few posts later (Post 25) without really elaborating on his intentions, which is confusing and makes his vote for Porochaz even more questionable. The one thing from this I feel fairly confident about is that CS and Porochaz probably aren't scum together.

Without meaning to be defensive, I though CS went a bit far with Post 32. He clearly either misunderstands or misrepresents leet's post, coming across as a little opportunistic, though asks some fair questions. In this post, he also downplays the significance of his reaction to being at L-2, which is dodgy.

Post 51 has a few things to note. First is this:

I'm admittedly glad that Ergo is sticking up for me so readily, I doubt a scum would come to my aid in explaining what I have tried to. It is coordinated, but for me this makes me lean town in his direction.

WIFOM. It's not particularly revealing on its own, but certainly worth noting.
He also continues to flesh out his suspicions of leet, making some decent points, but others that aren't so great and kind of reachy, particularly his points about leet and Day 2. His focus on leet continues in Post 80. In this as well, he clearly misinterprets or misrepresents leet's posts. There is also evidence of possible distancing from Erg0, which is worth noting if either of them turn up scum, especially in light of his WIFOM comment I quoted.

His latest post (a few posts above) is more on leet. To answer your question, CS, I think that leet's posts weren't inherently pro-town (that's not to say they were necessarily anti-town either), but it looks to me like you're jumping at them and trying to see them as only scummy, speculating a lot in the process. I can't speak on behalf of leet's actions, so unfortunately there isn't that much I can say

in defense

to your analysis. Despite this, I'm not suggesting that leet's posts shouldn't be used to judge me to a degree. But I am saying that I, personally, can't be held accountable for everything that he did, anti-town or pro-town.

Overall, after a questionable start, CS seems to be scum-hunting, though he's been focusing his hunt on my predecessor. I think this has been a significant part of his play this game and I wonder if

my

play will change this.

Erg0

In Post 38 I didn't like the way Erg0 makes blatant assumptions about CS's motives. This comes across as a defense of CS, but one I think no one but CS himself was in a place to make, assuming he's town. He uses this as the basis of his attack on Zeek. Later, in Posts 49 and 101 he suggests the opposite, claiming that his defense of CS was a result of his attack on Zeek. This doesn't ring true:

Zeek's points seem like a bit of a reach -

I assumed the reason that CS asked Porochaz in particular to unvote was that he was the one that had just put on the second vote.

If he'd asked leetonicon to unvote, that would be a different story.

Also, it seemed fairly obvious to me that CS did not literally mean that he was obligated by the rules to vote for Porochaz.

Erg0's accusation that Zeek was reaching were based on his defense of CS, which I've underlined, not the other way around. I agree that Zeek's post seemed very eager, which may be what Erg0 was refering to by 'reach', but he raised valid points.

Post 45 came across to me as insincere. Erg0 says he dislikes theory based discussion over game discussion, which seems hypocritical since he was the one that started said discussion. This coupled with more speculation/defense about CS's motives didn't sit well with me.

In Post 47 he continues his defense of CS. In reference to the CS/Porochaz issue, he said this:

I really think this specific point has been seriously blown out of proportion, and is receiving far more attention than it should. The reason this came into focus was that Porochaz responded to CS's post with a comment about reconsidering his vote, while leetonicon didn't.

I didn't like this conclusion, because it's misleading. The truth is that leet was never asked to reconsider his vote, so Erg0's point is moot. It was the fact that leet was not mentioned besides an OMGUS vote that made it noteworthy.

Post 54 was not too hot either. I can appreciate his point about looking for other topics of discussion, but to do so while dismissing the current topic in the way Erg0 did is suspicious. Calling Zeek's vote on him OMGUS was innapropriate and notable, maybe even more OMGUSy than Zeeks posts, heh. His comment about leet was fair enough and one I'd have made too.

In Post 82 Erg0 seems to implies that he is sure that CS is town. CS commented that Erg0 was either perceptive or scum. Erg0 suggests that his interpretation of CS "proves" that he is perceptive, when, even if he is so perceptive, is untrue. It proves very little, but does suggest a few things.

His last post was a vote on me, based on my leet's actions. Given that I can't repond directly to his vote, I don't know if this is opportunism or, as he says, a genuine attempt to keep the game moving. Based on my read though, I'm leaning towards the former.

Erg0's play has been chracterised by what looks like buddying up to CS. My read reveals him as the most suspect player thus far based mostly around his defense of CS, which was uncalled for and, I may even argue, anti-Town.

Peapod

Yeah, not much to say about her so far but here are the few things I noted:
It seems to have been missed that peapod was actually the first person to make an overstated reference to L-2 in Post 8. In Post 14 she kind of echo's what Porochaz has already said before jokingly suggesting that CS may be scum. I noted something about Post 60:

I really have nothing significant to add

to the CS conversation because

the issues have already been throughly explored.

Over-explored, if you ask me.

The overreaction aspect has been well explored

,

I didn't see a need to throw my two cents

in as well at that point...

Very similar wording and sentiment, six posts apart. I'm not sure if this says more about peapod or Erg0, if anything at all.

I'm not sure what her latest post was about. peapod, you say that the list of votes/FOS's helps you. How?


I'll post on Porochaz, Ripley and Zeek either later tonight or at some point tomorrow.

[pablito]

Vote Count

Erg0 (2): ZeekLTK, Porochaz
destructor (2): Civil Scum, Erg0
peapod (1): Ripley

Not Voting: peapod, destructor

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Let me know if you need any specific prods.

[Civil Scum]

Alright, I'd better think about this. Post after work.

unvote

[Civil Scum]

I may have jumped the gun on voting for Leet on page two, but I don't think Post 32 goes too far. It is not so much Leet's odd reasoning that has/had me convinced, it's more his reactions to having his ideas and reasoning questioned.

With destructor leaning slightly in Ergo's direction (who is currently at L-2) and Ripley being suspicious of destructor (L-2), we appear to have two non-incestuous BW's. I'd like to examine Leet's posts under the assumption of innocence and see how they read.

Ergo has stated that his defense of me was incidental. He never came out and said this is why CS's actions are not scummy. He has simply been explaining my intentions, while agreeing that I overreacted, etc. At any rate it did draw attention away from me. Aciidental or otherwise.
I can't see him sticking up for me (what's a good term for an incidental defense?) and then voting for scum (leet). If destructor is town, Ergo becomes very suspicious indeed, unfortunately there's no sure way to know.

I have a large problem with the WIFOM portion of destructor's post revolving around ergo and me. My vote can very easily go back on destructor, although I would like to hear from peapod.

[ZeekLTK]

It seems to have been missed that peapod was actually the first person to make an overstated reference to L-2 in Post 8. In Post 14 she kind of echo's what Porochaz has already said before jokingly suggesting that CS may be scum.

Interesting that you bring up Porochaz and peapod, I was wondering if anyone else noticed this (post 70):

Right Im going to try and keep this short but knowing me its going to get quite long...

Start with the easiest:
peapod: has had few posts and the one she made latterly in the game explained her absence which, I believe , she also thinks she doesn't have much to contribute to the "over-explored" Civil talk, which is fair enough I guess. Town but not 100% until we have a few more posts.

A little bit of discussion occurred afterwards, mostly concerning the "100%" that he said, but it basically got swept under the rug. I want to know if I am the only one who found it odd that Porochaz would list peapod, who had been extremely inactive and not really contributed anything, as his person who is "most likely to be town"?

He says "start with the easiest", so that would imply that peapod is the "easiest" to identify as town. Meanwhile the play in the game would make that completely opposite, peapod had hardly done anything so she would be the hardest to put a finger on as to which side she was on.

So I'm wondering what motive Porochaz had for doing this and listing a questionable player like peapod as town, especially considering peapod's activity (or lack thereof) at the point he made the post...

[Porochaz]

I notice you miss post 109 completely and bring up some totally random point, however I will not ignore your post...

It seems to have been missed that peapod was actually the first person to make an overstated reference to L-2 in Post 8. In Post 14 she kind of echo's what Porochaz has already said before jokingly suggesting that CS may be scum.

Interesting that you bring up Porochaz and peapod, I was wondering if anyone else noticed this (post 70):

So post 70, it seems to me as Ive had a bit of a go at you, you have tried to find some random point to get me back, which came kinda randomly from a destructor post which really is

only

relevant because it mentions both of us.

Right Im going to try and keep this short but knowing me its going to get quite long...

Start with the easiest:
peapod: has had few posts and the one she made latterly in the game explained her absence which, I believe , she also thinks she doesn't have much to contribute to the "over-explored" Civil talk, which is fair enough I guess. Town but not 100% until we have a few more posts.

A little bit of discussion occurred afterwards, mostly concerning the "100%" that he said, but it basically got swept under the rug. I want to know if I am the only one who found it odd that Porochaz would list peapod, who had been extremely inactive and not really contributed anything, as his person who is "most likely to be town"?[/quote]

Please quote where I said that. Cause I think you won't find it...

He says "start with the easiest", so that would imply that peapod is the "easiest" to identify as town. Meanwhile the play in the game would make that completely opposite, peapod had hardly done anything so she would be the hardest to put a finger on as to which side she was on.

Start with the easiest as in for me to type about, you seem to use some crap logic to work out that because Im typing the easiest to begin with they

must

be town in my eyes? Wrong. I started with peapod because A. she had nothing much to do with the game, B. I didn't have much to type about her and C. I had already come to my conclusion that her few responses had been what I think has been pro town but because of her lack of posting you cant say one way or another.

So I'm wondering what motive Porochaz had for doing this and listing a questionable player like peapod as town, especially considering peapod's activity (or lack thereof) at the point he made the post...

I didn't list her as town, full stop, I listed her as probable town but we wont fully know until she posts more. Just because you suspect peapod doesn't mean everyone else has to take your opinion for granted.

Apologies for anything badly bolded or unquoted I tried typing them as the buttons cause me problems...[/quote]

[Porochaz]

Don't worry Zeek Ill find the quote for you!

the most likely to be town

So I found it, in the same post you quoted... but lets expand that quote further, shall we...

Zeek: Has had more or less the same thinking I had with Civil. I think he's

the most likely to be town

(Porochaz's note: There it is!!!). In my eyes he hasn't done anything scummy. (there was an accusation earlier on but I can't find it in my posts below this reply... so if someone wants to highlight that I would be interested...)

Well... I think you may of mis-quoted me there...