Newbie 515-Abandoned = |

[Ben Miff]

As well as the preceeding points by other players, another piece of suspiscious activity by JDGA is this:-

(Man, this reminds me of my other game, Newbie 506, where I got suspicion directed at me for a load of BS that they spewed out of my first post. I was town in that game)

I can't quite see why you'd feel it's necessary to point that out, making an implied argument that since you were town last time, it's likely you're town this time, when the roles are randomly generated and thus your role last time this happened having absolutely no effect on what your role is this time. As a result, I'm adding

FOS:JDGA

for that.

Also, given the town is getting suspiscious about JDGA's overly defensive nature, it makes me wonder why Hang 'em High is trying to give JDGA an opening to defend himself against the accusation which could then be taken to defend himself without suspiscious. Hence, a minor

FOS:Hang 'em High

.

[Hang 'em High]

Also, given the town is getting suspiscious about JDGA's overly defensive nature, it makes me wonder why Hang 'em High is trying to give JDGA an opening to defend himself against the accusation which could then be taken to defend himself without suspiscious. Hence, a minor

FOS:Hang 'em High

.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you find suspicious. Could you please clarify what concerns you and I'll be happy to address it.

[Ben Miff]

Sure. Might be a misread, but the way you appear to be defending JDGA by trying to open up the way for a counter-offensive seems suspect to me. (That's pretty much the gist of it.)

[Hang 'em High]

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't trying to defend him at all -- actually to the contrary I find his actions a bit suspicious. His vote of me wasn't the issue -- to me that was no big deal. But

he

obviously thought placing the vote was suspicious and yet he placed it anyway. He anticipated his vote would open him to criticism and yet he still voted. I don't understand why he would do something he thought would appear scummy. To be fair, I don't think his actions are ridiculously scummy -- but they are odd so I'd like to hear his explanation.

[Sudo_Nym]

Overdefensiveness is usually associated with nervousness, not necessarily scuminess. I don't like that he jumps to defend himself before anyone attacked him, but I did the same thing myself in my first few games, so I'm not too worried at the mo'.

[JDGA]

My vote was an OMGUS, simply my omening game strategy. I tend to immediately defend myself because I don't use the preview button ( ^_^' ) and realised something else that could have been used by the mafia against me.

I pointed out the L-2 to do just that, to try and avoid an early mislynch, and also because early L-2's being OK hadn't been brought up yet in this game.

My metagaming was in reference to the fact that suspicion is being put onto me from what seems (to me) to be a load of BS, just like in my other game.

I hope that answers questions without bringing more up.

P.S. In advance, if I say TWBAEIIWABIISTIANPI, then that is my way of saying EBWOP. If you can figure out what it stands for, then good for you.

[IH]

Votecount

JDGA -2- (Hangem, BenMiff)
Sudonym -1- (Chris Cutpurse)
Chris Cutpurse -1- (NorthJayhawk)
NorthJayHawk -1- (Sudonym)
Hangem -1- ( JDGA)

Not voting ( jmar)

With 4 alive, 7 will lynch

[Chris Cutpurse]

As well as the preceeding points by other players, another piece of suspiscious activity by JDGA is this:-

(Man, this reminds me of my other game, Newbie 506, where I got suspicion directed at me for a load of BS that they spewed out of my first post. I was town in that game)

I can't quite see why you'd feel it's necessary to point that out, making an implied argument that since you were town last time, it's likely you're town this time, when the roles are randomly generated and thus your role last time this happened having absolutely no effect on what your role is this time. As a result, I'm adding

FOS:JDGA

for that.

If you're interpreting JDGA's statement as a Gambler's Fallacy, I just don't see it. Could you clarify how you came to that conclusion?

[Sudo_Nym]

TWBAEIIWABIISTIANPI

Now I just have to ask...

[JDGA]

@Sudo_Nym:

This would be an edit, if it were allowed, but it isn't, so this is a new post instead.

[JDGA]

And also

Unvote

, as we are out of the random voting stage.

[Sudo_Nym]

First of all, that acronym is liquified brilliance.

Secondly, are we out of the random vote stage? It's not as though we have anything particularly solid worth standing on now; I don't see that our position from the beginning of the game has improved in any noticeable fashion.

[JDGA]

1. Thanks
2. Despite the fact that all we have at the moment is a load of BS, it's still taken us out of the random voting stage.

[Chris Cutpurse]

jmar's posted to MS today, yesterday, and the day before, but hasn't posted anything to this game since the 28th. Lurkers make it harder to hunt scum, so

Unvote Sudo_Nym; Vote jmar

.

northjayhawk also hasn't posted at all since the 28th. How long does it usually take on MS before prods are given out?

Sudo_Nym is rather eager to kill the JDGA wagon. In post 29, Sudo answers accusations that were specifically directed at JDGA, and in post 36 he implies that the JDGA wagon doesn't even qualify as "out of the random vote stage". Ben Miff nonrandomly voted for JDGA, Northjay and I FOSed him, and Hang 'em High stated he was suspicious of him.

That's not random at all.

In any case, I don't see why you wouldn't want the town to find out more about him unless you're scumbuddies.

FOS: Sudo_Nym

[Sudo_Nym]

I tell you what I think; that is all. My point is only that I believed the wagon on JDGA (and my feelings would have been the same for anyone) was moving decidedly quickly for having almost nothing to work with. It's page 2; you can say want you will, but there's no way that anybody can get a good read on anyone, save someone literally jump up and shout "I'm Scum!"

When a wagon gets momentum this early, I get suspicious; there's a good chance that a scum might be pushing it, even if not voting themselves. The difference between a pressure wagon and a real one can be razor-thin.

Also, just because a vote doesn't say random on it, doesn't mean it has any merit.

[Northjayhawk]

After reading again following a break, I'll partially agree with what others said, JDGA's vote itself is not too suspicious. However, if this action is so innocent, then the fact that he felt the need to explain further that no one would likely risk voting on top of him is interesting.

[jmar]

I haven't posted because I don't really have anything to say. I don't find JDGA's move too scummy. It's good to generate discussion I guess, but I don't want to make any rash decisions right now. It's very unlikely that something minor on the first page is going to factor into anything in the long run.

[JDGA]

Page 1

might

(don't quote me on this) give out some useful information, but it's not likely as it is generally random votes and the start of a bandwagon brought out of BS to get the ball rolling. The BS bandwagon isn't mandatory, and I'm not necessarily saying that it happens all the time, but without it, the game generally drops off the radar.

[jmar]

...yes. Were you responding to me? I don't know what to make of that post, aside from everything you just said being rather obvious (no offense).

[Ben Miff]

If you're interpreting JDGA's statement as a Gambler's Fallacy, I just don't see it. Could you clarify how you came to that conclusion?

In essence, it's implied that since last time that this happened, he was town, so if it happens again it's likely he's town again.

(Can't see much else to say at the moment. Nothing that's more suspiscious has happened yet, at least not that I can notice.)

[JDGA]

In my 'This reminds me...' statement, I simply meant that the BS bandwagon normally produced in page 1 has been against me in both of my games. It has nothing to do with my aglinment.

In that other game, there was a metagame idea like that where a certain person had done the exact same thing to someone else in a different game (where he was mafia) as he did to me in my other game and decided that that meant he was mafia in my other game too. He was wrong.

And that last paragraph is incredibly hard to interpret (I barely can myself) and it adds almost nothing to the game, so you might as well ignore it

[Hang 'em High]

The case against JDGA is minor (at best) and since my vote was random, I'm going to:

Unvote: JDGA

Unfortunately, there really isn't much of a case against anyone at the moment. However, this quote stuck out at me:

jmar's posted to MS today, yesterday, and the day before, but hasn't posted anything to this game since the 28th. Lurkers make it harder to hunt scum, so

Unvote Sudo_Nym; Vote jmar

.

This isn't much of a case either, but trying to start a lurker wagon this soon is a bit much. Therefore:

Vote: Chris Cutpurse

[Chris Cutpurse]

Ben Miff: I see what you're getting at now, thanks.

JDGA: I think you mean "that meant I was mafia in my other game too"?

Hang 'em High: In a larger game I'd agree. Even with just 12 players, if there's one unreadable lurker among three mafia and an SK, that still leaves three good lynches among the active players, and if the scum lurks long enough it can get him lynched or vigged later on. In 5v2, it's different: One mafioso keeping himself unreadable leaves each townie with only one good lynch to pursue out of five suspects, versus two out of six. A mislynch in this situation is all too likely, and then lynching someone just for lurking is preposterous in lylo. That's why I pressured jmar into posting early.

I haven't posted because I don't really have anything to say. I don't find JDGA's move too scummy. It's good to generate discussion I guess, but I don't want to make any rash decisions right now. It's very unlikely that something minor on the first page is going to factor into anything in the long run.

This post is giving me scummy vibes. Rash decisions aren't something to worry about on page 2; abandoning early FOSes, votes and wagons that don't lead anywhere is an expected part of the game. Like you said, minor early mistakes don't generally lead to a lynch... so why do you seem so afraid to make them?

[Hang 'em High]

Good response -- and I actually agree with you. I didn't really have any issue with your vote at all. My real reason for voting was to see how you would react, and your response was reasonable and not overly defensive. Therefore:

Unvote: Chris Cutpurse

[JDGA]

@Chris Cutpurse: I meant 'he'. I knew that someone would misread it. Because I probably would myself.