Newbie 515-Abandoned = |

[jmar]

It's a difference in playstyle I guess. I don't throw my vote around early, I'll put on a random vote and see what develops. Nobody has a case on anybody yet; it's page 2. So I just see it as pointless to start voting now besides a random to get things going. (Which seems to have been accomplished, so

unvote

. Oftentimes I find that the scum isn't the one who makes the mistake on page 1, but the people who immediately jump on that mistake and start making cases to prove they're town.

I know I'm delving into theory a bit, but here's the way I see it, using an example from this game. Hang em High votes Christ Cutpurse, to gauge his response. After getting it, he says

my real reason for voting was to see how you would react, and your response was reasonable and not overly defensive.

Now, this seems well and good, but it really gives you no information. If he's scum, Chris is going to be more aware of the fact that he shouldn't sound overdefensive, yes? Then again, a newb-town (as I was in my first game) may start butting heads with the first person to call him out on something (thinking that person is scum and trying to lynch him). Or, maybe you are town and you're just a reasonable guy. Maybe you're scum and you're good at sounding reasonable because you're being careful not to be overdefensive. Essentially, we've learned nothing, because it's all a crapshoot, even more so in this game because a lot of you guys are newer players who are more prone to making mistakes. It's a form of WIFOM IMO (although I'm by no means an expert, and some players would probably debate this with me), an important theory that everyone should read up on.

So, I try to be more passive, observing other's posts. When I feel I'm at the point where I want to make a case against somebody (more to convince the rest of the town than anything else), I'll probably become annoyingly verbose, as I am here.

Whew. That took up more than time than I thought. Hope I didn't come off as overdefensive

[Northjayhawk]

A lot of good thought in that post. I'm mostly going to be away for a couple days, but I'll try to get back and see if I can put together anything interesting later this week.

[JDGA]

Heh. Nice. And

Mod, can we have a votecount?

[JDGA]

Hey guys, if this is inactive then I WILL HATE YOU!!!

[Sudo_Nym]

Relax, dude, it's only been a day- and for many it's also finals week. The site may very well slow done, but that doesn't mean the game is dead.

And to supplement Jmar for any who don't want to follow the wiki link, WIFOM means Wine In Front Of Me, and comes from the movie the Princess Bride. Anyone whose seen it should remember the scene where Wesley and the Sicilian have their battle of wits, and the Sicilian's attempts to outsmart Wesley merely lead him in circles to no advantage.

Popular town-tells have gained this, too, e.g. "That's a town-tell, so he must be town. Or he could be a scum who knows that it's a town-tell, so maybe he's scum. But everybody knows that scum sometimes fake this tell, so he's town. But everybody knows that everybody knows that scum sometimes fake it, so he could be scum" and so on. You spend a lot of time and energy going nowhere.

I don't know if this was necessary, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

[Northjayhawk]

Wow, I come back and find that we've become stuck in a ditch. (Sorry, got bad driving analogies whirling in my head, driving at a 15mph crawl in traffic during a horrible blizzard is not fun)

I will

unvote

since we really have very little at this point and the random phase seems to have outlived its possible usefulness. jmar's point got me thinking a bit, Hang 'em High's routine has gained us no extra knowledge, and he seems to imply that Chris Cutpurse is more likely to be innocent. Thats probably the sort of thought I'd keep to myself, since the scum would like to know the least likely lynch targets.

I may be reading way too much into that exchange, but I wanted to throw something new out there so this game doesnt just stall out on us. (ooh, another bad driving analogy! Yes, I do drive a stick, if you are in an automatic you arent really driving)

[JDGA]

heh. But this game is getting a bit inactive.

Good response -- and I actually agree with you. I didn't really have any issue with your vote at all. My real reason for voting was to see how you would react, and your response was reasonable and not overly defensive. Therefore:

Unvote: Chris Cutpurse

I find this post rather scummish, as voting just to get a reaction tends to be scummish behavior. Town often leave scum-tells when trying to self-defend, then the mafia can use those scum-tells to get a mislynch, and then it's lylo.

[Northjayhawk]

I may as well see if a vote will spark some activity, justification already listed in 55.

vote: Hang 'em High

I would like to see an answer to the questions posed by JDGA and myself.

[Chris Cutpurse]

Apologies for not managing to get to this game in the past few days.

jmar: As far as you being a passive player goes, that's fair enough. After seeing how slow this game has gotten however, I did become a bit concerned with the town as a whole becoming passive. Maybe I'm just showing my inexperience by being paranoid about something that never actually happens, but the threat of people not posting because nobody else was posting is a threat that's more intimidating than likely to occur, I would imagine.

With that said I do want to see where the case on Hang 'em High is going before I unvote.

[jmar]

It's not a ridiculous thought. I hope my post hasn't discouraged everyone into remaining silent, because we'll definitely get nowhere this way. The town does need a couple people pushing and pressuring so that we can get information. If everyone remains silent, it essentially becomes a guessing game. But I'll be interested to see what Hang 'em High has to say; he seems to have disappeared.

[jmar]

errr... we'll definitely get nowhere *that* way. We're not complete mutes yet.

[JDGA]

Great. We are getting nowhere, and everyone except 3 players have vanished. Hang 'em High is one of them, especially after those questions were asked against him, and that just makes him look more scummish to me. So, because i didn't do this in my last post (I forgot the FoS but that was probably implied),

Vote: Hang 'em High

[jmar]

5 players have posted on this page. However, if Hang Em doesn't show up within the next RL day or two, we should prolly ask for a prod, and if it comes to it, a replacement.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sorry, I was on an unexpected absence; my mother had an emergency, and I had to rush over.

as voting just to get a reaction tends to be scummish behavior.

Key word being "tends". Voting to get a reaction can also be very pro-town, when done correctly.

[Ben Miff]

H'okay. Given the general arguments against Hang 'em High (and given how JDGA seems to have defended himself against most of the arguments against him) I figure it's worth switching my vote over.

Therefore,

Unvote : JDGA

and

Vote : Hang 'em High

[IH]

Vote count coming soon.

TO repay your patience, heres some lolanimals

[IH]

Votecount

NorthJayHawk -1- (Sudonym)
Jmar -1- (Chris Cutpurse)
Hangem -3- (NorthJayHawk, JDGA, Ben Miff)


Not voting ( jmar, Hangem)

With 4 alive, 7 will lynch

[Northjayhawk]

Checking in, looks like nothing much happened since last time except Ben Miff decided to put Hang em at L-1. Hopefully he will be back soon to answer the questions that were posed.

[Sudo_Nym]

With 4 alive, 7 will lynch

Now that's just weird.

Nobody has quicklynched, though it's only been 12 hours or so since L-1 has been hit. I have some questions to ask, but I think they'll be more effective if I wait for a little while, just to draw it out a little further.

[JDGA]

@ the lolanimalz: In true manga style, I "..."

@ IH: That's the second time you've said "With 4 alive it's 7 to lynch". Stop modkilling people.

@ The Mafia Game: We've got a L-1, and Hang 'em still hasn't shown up. I say that someone ought to hammer him if he doesn't defend himself within 2-3 days. That said, I don't want to be hypocritical, because I am having some VERY sparodic access recently.

Also, by some ridiculous luck, my first game was with IH, being K5 Town. This is with IH, being K5 Town 2.

[jmar]

What? Hammer him? We're on page 3! In fact, I'm very suspicious of anyone on the Hang 'em High wagon right now. There's no reason for him to be at L-1. I was interested to hear what he had to say about what he's been asked, but just because he hasn't responded doesn't make him scum. It's very likely that he just needs to be replaced/prodded.

Mod, can we prod/replace Hang 'em High?

Unvote, Vote JDGA

for suggesting we lynch somebody who's not here, on page 3, when he hasn't done anything.

[JDGA]

Oh. Sorry. I didn't realise that we were only on page 3, but he isn't responding. As for that, a mafia quicklynch on page 3 would be very good for the town, but that hasn't happened, indicating that Hang 'em is prob scum. But because we

are

on page 3 and we don't have enough information, then I'll

Unvote

.

P.S. I got really annoyed in my other game (which is interconnected with this in more ways than one) at someone who tried to lynch on page 2. I wasn't much better in this game, but (unlike the other game) I'm stopping now that I realised.

Even though Hang 'em is looking scummish, we are too early for a lynch at this point. I would still like a defense from him...

[jmar]

My vote's staying. I'll admit it's a little unfair to you, because you're in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. If you stuck to your guns I'd still find it scummy (though I might be more inclined to chalk it up to newbishness). But it's also scummy now that you're backtracking after you were called out on it. I also don't think you can safely say at this point that Hang 'em is probably scum because he wasn't lynched. It's very possible both scum are on his wagon right now, or the 1 or 2 remaining scum know enough not to hammer because it would surely mean their lynch tomorrow. Also, your second paragraph confuses me, at first you say you got annoyed when someone tried to lynch on page 2, but then you say unlike the other game, you're stopping now that you've realized. So were you trying to lynch, or were you pushing a lynch on the person who tried to lynch?

[JDGA]

They were trying to lynch me and was using nothing but BS, and ignored everything said until I roleclaimed. He was an IC. That was seriously annoying, and I unvoted partially because of that (also because I know that a page 1-early4 can be very detrimental to the town.).

But Hang 'em still hasn't posted on this page, so

IH, we

might

need a replacement.

[jmar]

Okay.

Where is everybody?