Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Matt_S]

Matt, I'm having a hard time with a lot of your posts. You seem to have this idea that too many votes on one person this early in the game is bad for any player. The number of votes you classify as being "too many" is a rather low number for this kind of set-up. We have 27 living players in this game and it takes one more than half the total number of living players to reach a lynch. This means that on Day 1 we need

14 votes

on one player in order to have that person lynched. The only time someone is

really

in any danger of reaching a lynch is when he or she begins reaching the L-2 and L-1 levels.

You, Battle Mage, and Rosso Carne each have 3 votes apiece and andersonw received some flak for playing the newbie card. Is there any reason you feel that the two players besides yourself shouldn't have the number of votes they've accumulated? Are they really in any real danger because they've accumulated 3 votes apiece? Further, how do you expect to gain information from players without getting a good, strong bandwagon going on them?

I overreacted.
For the games I played in the past, L-2 and just 2 weren't far apart, maybe off by one vote. It isn't easy getting used to votes just being thrown around. And it's not the bandwagoning I'm against per se: It's the lack of discussion behind it. Battle Mage claimed miller. If he was scum, it seems fairly dumb. If he's town, he's trying to get the most out of whatever cops we may have left. The people who are actually discussing the issues I have no problem with. But there's been some votes that are just "I vote BM because he's scummy". And Rosso Carne is tired of people mentioning the cult recruiter. He's not the only one, but because he (probably) joked about killing people who continue the speculation of what "delayed" means, he got voted. Yeah, I don't think they should have as many votes as they do, but like you said, they aren't in danger, and overreacting again won't do any good.

Things I don't like:

Matt_S's removal of FOS to stop bandwagonning.

Vote: BattleMage Seems suspicious...

Do you find this constructive? I don't, and I didn't want to associate with it. And it isn't like I'm the only one against the bandwagon; curiouskarmadog is against it, too. The only difference is that he didn't have an FoS on BM. I could speculate on what he would do if he had FoS'd BM, but that wouldn't be helpful.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

It is constructive. If we never voted, never said anything about our suspicions, we'd have nothing to go on. For example, my vote stays on you because I dislike your play. Doesn't mean you're scum, but votes are a tool for starting discussion (especially Day 1).

In other news, the rosso carne bandwagon is a stretch, the bm wagon. . . well, in a sense, we have a guaranteed guilty investigation, but I agree, I don't really see why he would claim it so early. Of course, that can all be WIFOMed to death. I would say we could do a lot worse than lynching a claimed miller, but I'm not sold on it yet.

[Tlp]

Well hello, this game suddenly started yay!

Good that we killed the cult recruiter, The better for all of us.

I do think there's some more cop roles.. i mean with 30, if the cop died night 1 it would be pretty silly.

[Matt_S]

It is constructive. If we never voted, never said anything about our suspicions, we'd have nothing to go on. For example, my vote stays on you because I dislike your play. Doesn't mean you're scum, but votes are a tool for starting discussion (especially Day 1).

In other news, the rosso carne bandwagon is a stretch, the bm wagon. . . well, in a sense, we have a guaranteed guilty investigation, but I agree, I don't really see why he would claim it so early. Of course, that can all be WIFOMed to death. I would say we could do a lot worse than lynching a claimed miller, but I'm not sold on it yet.

But for some people it's just "I voted because he's scummy". It's voicing suspicion, but there's no reasoning given. Reasons can be discussed, bus suspicion is entirely subjective. I wouldn't care if everyone who has voted so far had given reasons that could be discussed. I don't have a problem with people being suspicious of me, but when the reason is for me opposing empty votes I get a little edgy. Especially when I'm not the only one opposed to the empty votes.

[Peers]

How about mostly-empty votes? Because we don't have a whole lot to be going on this point, beyond BM's little "No, seriously, I'm a miller" bit.

[Matt_S]

How about mostly-empty votes? Because we don't have a whole lot to be going on this point, beyond BM's little "No, seriously, I'm a miller" bit.

How about random votes again?

[armlx]

Let me respond:

Nemesis, you were pushing it earlier, which was what I was referring to.

Matt_S: The fact you used an FOS to do it was very sketchy. You weren't even really committed to the wagon. And your response about "not wanting to be connected" isn't helping.

Unvote, Vote Matt_S

Normally I don't like to cut established players slack for meta reasons, especially those based on what I deem bad play, but Matt_S is acting far too concerned about his every precise move. It seems kinda sketchy. And the over reacting scum tell rearing it's head.

Actually voting without reason is constructive as it's easy to spot trends. FOSing without reason is a lot more low key and inciting.

[Antithesis]

Matt S

You wrote

And it's not the bandwagoning I'm against per se: It's the lack of discussion behind it. Battle Mage claimed miller. If he was scum, it seems fairly dumb. If he's town, he's trying to get the most out of whatever cops we may have left. The people who are actually discussing the issues I have no problem with. But there's been some votes that are just "I vote BM because he's scummy". And Rosso Carne is tired of people mentioning the cult recruiter. He's not the only one, but because he (probably) joked about killing people who continue the speculation of what "delayed" means, he got voted. Yeah, I don't think they should have as many votes as they do, but like you said, they aren't in danger, and overreacting again won't do any good.

I think this is a well reasoned assessment of the current state of the game, which says to me that you are following the game closely, you take it seriously, and you have adapted from the smaller newbie games to a 30 person game rather well. You seem to be replying often in response to questions from others, so you are also very actively involved in the game so far...

And yet, in the same post you claim

I overreacted.
For the games I played in the past, L-2 and just 2 weren't far apart, maybe off by one vote. It isn't easy getting used to votes just being thrown around.

Is it really that difficult of a transition? It would seem to me that the different number of votes is a most obvious part to adjust to.

[Battle Mage]

alright, issue solved.

stop talking about the cult recruiter. he's dead, and now there is no cult.

the next person who talks about the cult recruiter as if its going to help the town to do so is going to be personally murdered.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Should i ask what your issue with the game was?
Or perhaps more importantly, why you would feel the need to share that information with us?
Oh and not forgetting, an explanation of how you know there is no living members of the cult left.

kthxbai.

[Nemesis]

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

Normally scum dont like to claim early as it means they cannot adapt later on, not to mention that they can be countered.

You think a counterclaim of miller would mean that one person was scum and one person was a miller? You don't think it could be easily dismissed as 2 millers in a 30 player game being possible?

Have you ever tried any risky gambits before? (Especially as scum.)

IMO, claiming miller probably isn't enough to get you lynched, especially as you claimed early. So it may be a fairly safe gambit for scum that are likely to be investigated. So I don't see your early claim as something scum would never do. I think that's WIFOM at best.

And Rosso Carne is tired of people mentioning the cult recruiter. He's not the only one, but because he (probably) joked about killing people who continue the speculation of what "delayed" means, he got voted.

Well the fact that even you arn't sure that it was a joke doesn't help him. And as for the speculation about the recruiter, it's discussion. I way prefer talking about something like that to talking about nothing.

I just hate the threat of "shut up or die"... Rosso contributed to the discussion with that? Plus he hasn't even responded to the post I voted him for, so it's not like the bandwagon has even got to the "worthy of defence" stage yet.

Nemesis, you were pushing it earlier, which was what I was referring to.

That was only to point out the irony of BM's response to my original post. I didn't suggest we lynch him based on his first post. I just wanted to clarify I was actually in the last section of stuff you don't like.

[Nemesis]

EBWOP: I have awesome tag skills. Sorry about that.

[JordanA24]

Prodding SilverConqueror, Fattierob, konehead, Nanosauromo

Also fixed Nemesis' tags

EDIT: konehead has requested replacement

[Battle Mage]

I mean that, yes i claimed Miller, but for gods sake look at HOW.
I claimed it at the earliest opportunity, at the VERY START of the game. You really think if i was scum i would be so forward and claim a role so controversial like that?

How should I know? The most experience I have with the Miller role is on a 9-person game in a chat room. It would seem like a role to call as scum, however. If you'd call it at the very start or not I wouldn't know.

Normally scum dont like to claim early as it means they cannot adapt later on, not to mention that they can be countered.

You think a counterclaim of miller would mean that one person was scum and one person was a miller? You don't think it could be easily dismissed as 2 millers in a 30 player game being possible?

I am virtually certain that a 30 player game would not feature 2 millers, hence i am happy for a counterclaim, as it will reveal a scumbag.

Have you ever tried any risky gambits before? (Especially as scum.)

No, i generally do those as town. The riskiest thing ive ever done as scum that i can recall was claiming a power role in a newbie game. lol
I pride myself on being able to last a fairly decent amount of time as scum. Ill usually try and lurk in the shadows and not draw attention to myself.

BM

[Fattierob]

Hm. I really don't want to vote for anybody without watching this a bit farther.

But, I have an idea.

Vote: Fattierob

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus, we are knee deep in newbies.

[Matt_S]

Matt_S: The fact you used an FOS to do it was very sketchy. You weren't even really committed to the wagon. And your response about "not wanting to be connected" isn't helping.

Unvote, Vote Matt_S

Normally I don't like to cut established players slack for meta reasons, especially those based on what I deem bad play, but Matt_S is acting far too concerned about his every precise move. It seems kinda sketchy. And the over reacting scum tell rearing it's head.

Actually voting without reason is constructive as it's easy to spot trends. FOSing without reason is a lot more low key and inciting.

I've read a few games where people have been accused of being scum because they FoSed somebody who was being bandwagoned. Scum or town, looking scummy is bad. I've tried and failed at that I guess. And I don't know if the FoSing without reason comment is directed towards me or not, but I did have a reason: him voting Khelvaster yet not wanting OMGUS votes. And I had a reason to withdraw my FoS, too: BM explained his history, plus the bandwagon. I didn't see the bandwagon as constructive anymore.

I think this is a well reasoned assessment of the current state of the game, which says to me that you are following the game closely, you take it seriously, and you have adapted from the smaller newbie games to a 30 person game rather well. You seem to be replying often in response to questions from others, so you are also very actively involved in the game so far...
.
.
.

Is it really that difficult of a transition? It would seem to me that the different number of votes is a most obvious part to adjust to.

Actually, I haven't played newbie games here. A few years ago I played on another site. I try to stay active and respond because otherwise I wouldn't be playing.

I adjusted pretty quickly, actually. I just screwed up in my very first post, before I adjusted. From there it started to click, especially once more people voted andersonw and when people started voting for me.

Well the fact that even you arn't sure that it was a joke doesn't help him. And as for the speculation about the recruiter, it's discussion. I way prefer talking about something like that to talking about nothing.

I just hate the threat of "shut up or die"... Rosso contributed to the discussion with that? Plus he hasn't even responded to the post I voted him for, so it's not like the bandwagon has even got to the "worthy of defence" stage yet.

I don't do humor on the internet very well. I assume it's a joke because it's a dumb claim to make. Though that could just be what he wants us to think... Yeah, it's discussion, but it's about a dead guy. He could have recruits, but there could also be a second cult for all we know. I suppose there isn't much to discuss yet.

Yeah, he didn't contribute, but he's not the only one to not contribute. There's lots of lurkers. I think lurking is more suspicious that being angry. He may not need defense, but it doesn't hurt to discuss it.

[armlx]

jesus, we are knee deep in newbies.

[VanDamien]

Well the fact that even you arn't sure that it was a joke doesn't help him. And as for the speculation about the recruiter, it's discussion. I way prefer talking about something like that to talking about nothing.

I just hate the threat of "shut up or die"... Rosso contributed to the discussion with that? Plus he hasn't even responded to the post I voted him for, so it's not like the bandwagon has even got to the "worthy of defence" stage yet.

I, for one, hope Rosso did not mean it as a joke. The existence or non-exsistence of ONE potential recruit appearing is moot, and much more likely than not poses no threat to us whatsoever. So, at this point, continuing to discuss what the possibilities are there reeks of scum trying to misdirect attention and distract from the buisness at hand. Therefore, a very strong tell.

Yeah, it's discussion, but it's about a dead guy. He could have recruits, but there could also be a second cult for all we know.

Vote:Matt_S

[Matt_S]

... And my point goes right on by.

[Matt_S]

Since I'm too impatient to wait for someone to ask me to clarify my point...

There could be a cult recruit. There could be a second cult. There could be jesters. The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

It's the same thing you said, VanDamien, yet I used a hypothetical example to prove that the speculation is worthless. It seems you think I'm actually trying to get people to believe the possibility of a second cult when I have stated before that the cult recruit speculation is a waste. You seem to enjoy trying to finger me by looking at a single one of my sentences instead of the entirety of my posts.

[Rosso Carne]

hey assholes, i meant personally murder as in like bombs and stuff (no fbi, not serious)

i feel it will be better being confirmed town later though, so if youre going to vote me, make it at a later date.

[Khelvaster]

Since I'm too impatient to wait for someone to ask me to clarify my point...

There could be a cult recruit. There could be a second cult. There could be jesters. The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

It's the same thing you said, VanDamien, yet I used a hypothetical example to prove that the speculation is worthless. It seems you think I'm actually trying to get people to believe the possibility of a second cult when I have stated before that the cult recruit speculation is a waste. You seem to enjoy trying to finger me by looking at a single one of my sentences instead of the entirety of my posts.

I highly, highly doubt that we have two cults. That would be degenerate in this kind of game.

[Battle Mage]

hey assholes, i meant personally murder as in like bombs and stuff (no fbi, not serious)

i feel it will be better being confirmed town later though, so if youre going to vote me, make it at a later date.

Kid, answer my questions or my vote stays on permanently.

BM

[Rosso Carne]

hey assholes, i meant personally murder as in like bombs and stuff (no fbi, not serious)

i feel it will be better being confirmed town later though, so if youre going to vote me, make it at a later date.

Kid, answer my questions or my vote stays on permanently.

BM

>_>

i thought you were about 12.

[Matt_S]

Just fixing some of my info: It was my second post where I voted VanDamien, not the first. I thought my FoS came before my vote.