Newbie 35... game over!

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Four were on the bandwagon against Jaguar, three are left. MGIA was the final one to vote... Did you really think she is scum?

Yes I did! I felt that I had properly addressed her "evidence" against me, and yet she continued to insist that I was scum. I honestly thought after the things she'd said that she was mafia trying to sway the votes away from her onto me. So I

thought

the best thing to do would be to lynch her before she was succesful. And I was wrong. That happens (quite often )

[Prince Kael]

One cop, two townies and two scums, 3 are required to lynch...

Rick
Talitha
Zero
MGIA

All four voted against Jaguar...

burninglife
myself

We haven't voted for Jaguar...

It is pretty unreasonable that both burning and myself are scum and we were'nt on the bandwagon.
I believe that one or two scums were on that regretable wagon... Zero is dead so it leaves us with Talitha, Rick and MGIA... The latter was the lyncher but she voted against him a message before..
Rick was against her from the beggining and if he is scum that would explaing why she was a townie.

A roleclaiming cop would surely help us...

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

A roleclaiming cop would surely help us...

You're right, it would be

extremely

helpful if someone claimed cop right now.

[Prince Kael]

If I trust all roleclaims made I sum up that the cop is...

Rick!
Well rick, what do you have to say? Are you a cop or are you not?

[Rick]

Prince Kael,

You really make me smile. It is a pleasure to be in the same game as you, and I promise that I am being sincere.

As for whether I am a cop or not, well I decline to answer that question.

My opinion is that the cop whoever he or she is should not come out (even if they have found scum). Let me explain why, first if the cop comes out s/he is dead tonight. Secondly if they have found scum they should hold back for a while. They can then make an educated guess as to the scum’s partner. Secondly and my favourite, this will make the scum sweat.

OK if the cop found an innocent, well that does help. It means that they have a 2/3 chance to find scum just on odds alone. Again I would suggest that they don’t come out. If they work the odds and we lynch scum today, then the scum only has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting them in the night. Maybe they should just infer who they think is innocent. That way if the scum do hit the cop in the night, then we can reread through the cop’s posts to see who was found out to be innocent.

Your servant,
Rick

[Rick]

Dear Mod,

Please can you prod Burning (if you haven't already), he has gone missing from one game and hasn't posted D2 here yet and may need replacing.

Thanks.

[Dourgrim]

Consider him prodded.

[Prince Kael]

I seriously suspect MGIA, I find his reasons for lynching Jaguar very unsatisfying!

[Talitha]

Well I've read through again and I have to say that my main suspicions are the same as yesterday (apart from Jaguar of course )

Mr G: Has been acting like he hasn't really been paying attention... popping up when called upon, and the quick lynching vote on Jag. I don't consider the quick lynch vote particularly scummy because I have seen townies do it often enough in these newbie games. It's more the vibes that I'm getting from him I guess.

burninglife is my 2nd highest suspect.. mainly beacuse I haven't heard enough from him to get a feeling of townie-ness or otherwise.

I know Rick's a good player so can't discount him either... but I feel that he wouldn't have gone after Jaguar like he did if he were scum.

Prince K is giving me townie feelings right now.

[Dourgrim]

MGIA has posted to the V/LA thread that he will need replacing in all of his games, so I'm going to attempt to do so presently.

And burninglife has not responded to his prod... he has 24 hours before he's replaced as well.

[Prince Kael]

I know Rick's a good player so can't discount him either... but I feel that he wouldn't have gone after Jaguar like he did if he were scum.

How can you know it for sure? I mean, doesn't scums suppose to be as much unexpected as they can?

[Rick]

I seriously suspect MGIA, I find his reasons for lynching Jaguar very unsatisfying!

Me too, but then again

I suspect everyone

.

Lets start

MGIA

- very very scummy – too scummy if you know what I mean? Anyway if you read the thread, Jaguar and I were having a

discussion

(and a very productive one too in my opinion) when out of nowhere MGIA goes and ends it – just great. Well seeing as he is going to be replaced that is all I can say. Shame really.

PK

– Don’t you still think that burning is scum? You were quite convinced on D1. But now you say:

It is pretty unreasonable that

both

burning and myself are scum and we were'nt on the bandwagon.

Which infers that it is reasonable that

one

of you is scum? But which one?

Burning

– well he could have lynched Jag if he had wanted to so he can’t be scum, unless of course, he is a very clever and patient scum. It is a possibility.

Talitha

– first I need to quote something Jaguar said:

Someone do something scummy.

Talitha jumped all over MMCL in another game for saying basically the same thing, but here she hasn't even mentioned it.

Yes Talitha did jump all over MMCL in another game for saying basically the same thing! But in the other game Jaguar also agreed with Talitha. Now in this game we know for certain that Jaguar is innocent, so it makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game. Of course we

now

know Zero is innocent, but we didn’t know that on day 1. Well apart from the scum; the scum know who are innocent. Perhaps Talitha didn’t want to be seen leading a bandwagon against Zero who she knew would turn out to be innocent?

Anyway, enough rambling from me.

[Talitha]

makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game

I hardly "jumped all over" anyone. You have to consider the contexts of each game. In the other game it was the best thing that stood out to me at the time and I wanted to make a note of it before it disappeared into an oblivion of posts and pages. In this game I felt there was a lot better things to go on. And you're right, I didn't want to lead a bandwagon against zero, when I felt there were better candidates.

How can you know it for sure? I mean, doesn't scums suppose to be as much unexpected as they can?

I certainly don't know for sure that Rick is innocent. I was just saying that his behaviour yesterday has put him below some others on my list of suspects. You're right, it could be clever play.

[Rick]

makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game

I hardly "jumped all over" anyone. You have to consider the contexts of each game. In the other game it was the best thing that stood out to me at the time and I wanted to make a note of it before it disappeared into an oblivion of posts and pages. In this game I felt there was a lot better things to go on. And you're right, I didn't want to lead a bandwagon against zero, when I felt there were better candidates.

Nice answer. Thanks for responding so quickly.

[Prince Kael]

Burning – well he could have lynched Jag if he had wanted to so he can’t be scum, unless of course, he is a very clever and patient scum. It is a possibility.

Or otherwise an idifferent scum.. It seems like he just don't care, he is now being prodded. In my first game the scum was even replaced in the middle...

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

I'm Back! I'm Back! I don't need to be replaced! I had no idea how long it was going to take to regain my access at home, so I figured I didn't want to inconvenience any games if I ended up being gone a long time. But I got back much sooner than I thought I would.

And yes, I admit I killed Jaguar quite prematurely. I've also admited many times that I suck at this game. I already said that Jaguar's constant baseless accusations made me overly suspicious of her. If you want to kill me and throw the game away because of that, feel free to vote for me.

[Dourgrim]

burninglife has failed to respond to his Mod Prod, so Norinel will be replacing him, effective immediately.

[Talitha]

Yay - Mr G is back! Yay - Norinel is here! Game on!

[Norinel]

Actually, that's more like "effective as soon as I get a role."

[Dourgrim]

Hehe... oops. Role sent. There, ya happy?!

[Norinel]

Hmm, on a read I find everyone that's still alive suspicious for different reasons. Suppose I'll need to narrow it down a little. The first thing I think I should note is that in a newbie game, anyone who is bandwagoned to a claim and claims townie should be lynched, so

FOS: Rick

for being the most instrumental in moving the bandwagon from burninglife to Talitha.

I feel like the discussion on whether or not the cop should come out has all but exposed the cop, unless the cop's said the cop should come out without actually doing it.

[Prince Kael]

anyone who is bandwagoned to a claim and claims townie should be lynched

Unfortunately I don't understand what it means...

Your previous has roleclaimed to be a townie... Do you keep this claim?

[Norinel]

Unfortunately I don't understand what it means...

Your previous has roleclaimed to be a townie... Do you keep this claim?

Yes, but I believe that the situation around the claim was poor town strategy. Claiming for defense should only be a last resort, and when you think you'll be lynched if you don't claim. But claiming townie provides no helpful defensive information (As there are other ways of explaining apathetic behavior). In the case of a townie defensive claim, it's either premature or an unuseful last resort.

In this case, since the town moved from burninglife to another townie, a townie got lynched anyway while the mafia had one less potential role to figure out.

[Talitha]

I don't necessarily think it was poor town strategy to ask burninglife for a claim and then not lynch him... burninglife was on 3 votes and could very easily have been lynched. That in itself is useful information. If we had lynched burninglife at that point we would've lost out on a whole heap of conversation and information. Rules like the one Norinel is suggesting can make for a very quick DAy 1.. which is not good for the town at all.

And I don't want to play a purely mechanical game of mafia where you have to follow certain rules. (Like following through on a lynch, because someone claimed townie). I'd rather follow my instincts at the time. I don't think newbie games should be about learning the optimal strategy that is associated with a certain kind of setup. If I did I would suggested the whole cop-claim-day-1 strategy.

However, I'm tending to believe Norinel when he implies we would've been better off lynching burninglife yesterday.

FOS: Norinel

[Rick]

Welcome back Mr Gnome, and thanks for joining us Norinel.

First I must apologise for not posting sooner. Don’t know were the last few days have gone to.

Norinel I must say I found your analysis, errm how can I say it, yes enlightening. I wonder perhaps could you give an analysis of say how Mr Gnome has played so far? I’ve got my views but I would love to hear yours first if you don’t mind.

Thanks.