Newbie 35... game over!

[Rick]

Vote:Jaguar

I get a nice fuzzy feeling from my vote on Rick, so I am still going to leave it there.

I'm happy to oblige you.

[burninglife]

And burning life just sounds more like an over frustrated newbie townie than anything else. I say that because I've been in that position before and know what it's like. Although, I'm not going to completely cast off the possibility that he's just scum acting that way.

Not exactly a newbie, just to this site. I'm just extremely frustrated at the moment, for many many reasons, most of them nothing to do with this game.

[Dourgrim]

Vote Count

Jaguar

- 2 (Rick, Zero)

burninglife

- 1 (PK)

Rick

- 1 (Jaguar)

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Dourgrim]

Wow... you have an excellent Monday, and then only 4 posts on Tuesday... perhaps it's time for a deadline after all, just so this game doesn't stagnate.

DEADLINE: Saturday, May 15.

[Talitha]

vote: Jaguar

- She's my best guess for scum.

[Prince Kael]

Three votes on Jaguar.. That will be truely interesting.. (did anyone notice that zero is once again on that bandwagon? )

[Jaguar]

What else can I say? I am a plain townie and nothing you do will change that. Lynch me today and you'll have to lynch right tomorrow. (Yes, I know, most newbie games end up in this situation regardless) At least if you lynch me, you won't lynch the cop or doc, but there is a chance that scum will take one of them out tonight of course.

I had some time to go through the thread this morning and here are my observations:

And just because I'm feeling in a petty mood today,

Vote: Zero

for suggesting the last person be lynched, and

FOS: Jaguar

for agreeing and suggesting I'm scum

I didn't agree with Zero. What was I agreeing on?

He has claimed to be a townie though and I know that there is some other stuff going on that can account for the way he is posting. Even if he does not care much on whether or not he stays alive, if we lynch him and he is a townie, we have to lynch right tomorrow.

True, but what really needs to be looked at is, who stays active. It's quite easy to pop in right away, throw in a "random vote", then go back into hiding.

And then he goes ahead and disappears himself for 3 days and again for 4 days. At least he seems to believe I am not scum. I wonder if that is because he knows who the scum is?

Prince Kael also does not think I am scum... He also put up a strong objection to Zero's suggestion of lynching the last person to vote. At the time that he posted, Rick and burninglife still had to vote. Since Prince Kael put up arguments against burninglife and still seems to think he is suspicious, I can't put PK and burninglife as partners. It is still possible that PK is scum, but right now I don't see it. MGIA is definitely more suspicious.

He also pointed out that Zero has been vote hopping to be on every bandwagon.

Rick. Well, I think he's scum, but who knows. First he thinks that Talitha and Zero are scum together, than he thinks that Zero and I are scum together. Now he just thinks that I am scum. He hasn't really looked at anyone else. He is trying to prove that I am lying with faulty reasoning, I have never random voted for a scum partner. And I didn't lie. He also said that Zero's suggestion wasn't a good one. Why? We'd still have given the last person a chance to claim if need be (and burninglife did claim and the votes on him diappeared). Regardless of what everyone thought of the suggestion, burninglife did end up being targeted by a few of us.

Looking back, she did jump on burninglife for the "Hi I'm posting so no-one thinks I'm lurking" post. We had someone do that in Mini 93 (High School mafia) and that person turned out innocent. (Jag was innocent in that game and gave that person "the benefit of the doubt").

Actually, I thought it was scummy behaviour, but agreed with you that it was better to have someone post than to have someone disappear. So yes, I suppose that I am voting a bit differently than that game. But remember, in the end I had you pegged as scum!

Someone do something scummy.

Talitha jumped all over MMCL in another game for saying basically the same thing, but here she hasn't even mentioned it.

I am not sure what to think of Zero. I'd like to think that if he was scum he would not have suggested to lynch the last person to post because only I had posted when he made that suggestion, leaving his scum buddy still to post, if he is scum. I just don't see Zero being scum.

Personally I think MGIA and Rick are in this together and Talitha is a good alternate in my eyes.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Ok, this is getting annoying. It says I'm watching this thread, but I'm not recieving any notifications for it.

And Jaguar, I just don't find you scummy, because you haven't done anything, I think, that has been scummy, in my view.

And if you're looking for an explination for those 3 days, I have a bad memory when it comes to what games I'm in, and if I don't get any e-mail notices for a game (which I haven't been) I forget about it fairly quickly. The only reason I'm remembering right now is because I've just started puting a post-it by the monitor, reminding me of what games I'm in.

[Rick]

Hi Jaguar,

Are you up for some discussion?

I have to say that there are some things in your last post that I have to rectify.

Rick. Well, I think he's scum, but who knows. First he thinks that Talitha and Zero are scum together

Not quite. I just meant that

if

Talitha and Zero were scum, or should I say

if in the event

that Talitha and Zero were scum

then

Talitha and Zero would be directing the lynch. Some notes here -

if

means that it is a possibility, or a supposition. When the word

then

is used it follows that this is true only if the original supposition were correct.

These were my exact words:

It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today.

Unless of course you and Zero are scum.

If

in the event that Talitha and Zero were scum,

then

Talitha and Zero would be directing the lynch. I never said that I thought Talitha and Zero are scum together. And I have already previously mentioned this in post#25:

All I did was make the point that if you and Zero were scum

(and that is a big if)

then you would be directing the lynch. Is that so unwarranted?

Nope, Jaguar you have been twisting my words on this issue. Then you go on to say:

than he thinks that Zero and I are scum together

No, as I have already said in post #26, I was speculating.

Yeah and I think I made the same point earlier in my 'unwarranted post' :

It may also indicate that Jaguar is your [Zero's] partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

But as I said before I was only speculating; anyway it seems that Talitha and I do agree on something.

Townies have to speculate. The only people who don’t speculate are the mafia! The mafia know who they are and they know that everyone else is a townie. The townies on the other hand do not know who the mafia are or who the other townies are. Townies have to make guesses, assumptions and speculate based on what the other players say (or don’t say).

Now he just thinks that I am scum

This is true. I hope that I am not wrong.

He hasn't really looked at anyone else.

This though is not true. In fact I suspect everyone, it is just that you are top of the list, and I don’t think it is wise to list all your suspicions, unless you are hoping that someone will react to them to give themselves away.

He is trying to prove that I am lying with faulty reasoning,

Nope, although perhaps lie was too strong a word. You are top of my suspicious list because you used faulty logic. And someone with your experience should know that it was faulty logic.

I have never random voted for a scum partner.

And I never said you did. Nor have I inferred from your statement that Zero is your partner.

What you said in post #27, was that if you were (Zero’s scum buddy) then you would definitely

not

have voted for him.

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion. I definitely would not have voted for him.

This is false logic

because

scum often vote for their buddies

. If their buddy is lynched they then draw suspicion away from themselves in later days. A newbie might not know this, but you with your experience must know that. And the more you

deny

your logic was false and try and

twist

my words the more convinced I become that you are scum.

And I didn't lie.

Well you certainly

used false logic

and since have been

denying

that and

twisting

what I and you said.

He also said that Zero's suggestion wasn't a good one. Why?

It is true that I said that Zero’s suggestion wasn’t a good one, but

I gave my reasons

. This is what I said:

Personally I don’t think it is a good idea and worse it could be indicate that you are scum. I mean what a better way to lych someone else then to say lets lynch the person who posts x (where x is a greater number than my post). It may also indicate that Jaguar is your partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

Notice the word

'speculating’

, plus I also said

it may not

with reference to Jaguar/Zero being partners.

As far as I was concerned it wasn’t even worth a vote, just a fos. I also said that it has given as a topic for discussion (that was meant to be taken as a positive).

As I have already said, this

twisting

of my words just furthers my suspicions of you.

I could go on but I think that is enough.
~Rick

[Jaguar]

Now he just thinks that I am scum

This is true. I hope that I am not wrong.

Well, you are. I don't know what else to say.

perhaps lie was too strong a word

Thank you. I didn't lie.

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion. I definitely would not have voted for him.

This is false logic

because

scum often vote for their buddies

.

But

I

haven't ever voted for a scum buddy, so why is it false logic in my case?

My apologies if I saw things in the wrong light when you posted about Talitha possibly being Zero's scum buddy. Everyone is allowed to make mistakes. And yes, I admit I made a mistake.

Well, you are on your way to lynch a townie. And no, I am not claiming anything else, because this is all I am. There is nothing more, nothing less. If you are so determined to lynch me, go ahead, but you better lynch right tomorrow.

I still think that MGIA and either Rick or Talitha are scum.

[Rick]

Nice Post.

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion. I definitely would not have voted for him.

This is false logic

because

scum often vote for their buddies

.

But

I

haven't ever voted for a scum buddy, so why is it false logic in my case?

OK to answer you question, “But I haven't ever voted for a scum buddy, so why is it false logic in my case?”

It is irrelevant that 'you haven’t ever voted for a scum buddy' in my opinion. That has nothing to do with what I said, nor did I ever say that you ever voted for your scum buddy.

What is relevant is that

you made the case that you couldn’t be Zero’s scum buddy based on the fact you voted for him

.

Fact

– three people said you

could

be Zero’s scum buddy. Emphasis on

could

not are.

Fact

– you stated that if you were Zero's scum buddy, you would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion.

OK – that is possible.

Fact

– you stated and I quote, “I

definitely

would

not

have voted for him”.

Well that is incorrect

. Scum do and often vote for their buddies. When you said, “I definitely would not have voted for him”, you were using false logic.

= = =

Now I must add in your favour that I don’t think that alone should be justification to lynch you

.

And if you had posted your latest reply first I would probably have removed my vote. But your immediate reaction was panicky in my opinion, and you seemed insistent on changing/

twisting

what I said.

This was my original statement:

finally the real crunch. I checked Jaguar’s newbie games. Jaguar has been in two newbie games where she has been scum and on both occasions her scum partner has voted against her. I don’t think that you could forget that. So when Jaguar said that she definitely would not have voted for him [Zero – if she was his partner] she made an outright lie.

Now I thought I had been clear. I said that your scum partner had voted against you. And the reason I mentioned this was I can’t believe that you could have forgotten this. If this hadn’t happened you could have claimed ignorance and said that you didn’t realise that scum will vote for each other. However you have tried to

twist

what I said, for example

Norinel voted for me and Morpheus voted for me, but in neither game did I put a day 1 vote on my buddy.

vote: Rick for insinuating that I am scum with faulty reasoning.

I mentioned these two games because I can’t believe you could have forgotten them. I didn’t mention them because you had voted for your scum partners and I never said anything of the sought. But you tried to

twist

things to make it sound I had said that.

That is why I am keeping my vote.

[Jaguar]

Fair enough I suppose, but nevertheless you'll be lynching town.

I have to say that I am surprised that I am still alive. I've had three votes on me for a decent amount of time. What I surmise from that is that either a scum is already on the wagon and his or her partner doesn't want to also vote for me, or scum isn't on the wagon and doesn't want to attract attention by being the lynching vote on an innocent.

To me that means that if one of Rick and Talitha is scum, the other isn't. At this time I will

unvote: Rick

as nobody is going to be following my vote any time soon , so it's not doing any good over there. Additionally, I am starting to think that he could be on the town's side. He is certainly putting up well thought out responses and is not afraid of some backlash.

MGIA voted me randomly, then Rick voted me (we all should know why now ), followed by Zero (number three on the wagon). Rick unvoted because he didn't want to put me that close to a lynch at the time with a random vote on me and asked MGIA to either confirm the vote or unvote. MGIA chose to unvote and Rick put his vote back on (expectedly). Talitha also voted for me once the random vote was off.

Zero random voted MGIA to start the day, Talitha picked on Rick, I voted Zero, MGIA voted me, PK chose burninglife and burninglife was the only one with a non-random vote, putting a second vote on Zero.

I put a second vote on burninglife after he put his OMGUS vote (2nd one) on Zero and posted just to post. Zero promptly followed with a third vote on burninglife.

Once again, after burninglife claimed we did not see a fourth vote, even though there was enough time for someone to put a lynching vote on.

Then we got into the whole business of me, and the voting is outlined above.

Who was on both bandwagons? Zero. PK and I voted burninglife and Rick and Talitha are voting me. Conspicously absent is MGIA in that his vote for me was still the random vote.

Makes me wonder if Zero is indeed scum after all. And I am still suspicious of MGIA.

As a matter of fact, I think I will

vote: MGIA

. At this point he could potentially be scum with everyone. If MGIA is scum, I am thinking that Zero would be a potential partner in crime. He did random vote for MGIA to start the game off and we all know by now that this is a common strategy . MGIA hasn't picked a fight with anyone, classicly staying below the radar. Whereas we know Rick and I are not afraid to pick a fight (no hard feelings here, It's all part of the game . Just a bit frustrating sometimes.)

OK, I am done rambling now. Off to see what others have to say.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

You want a fight? How's this for a fight

Vote Jaguar

[Rick]

Whereas we know Rick and I are not afraid to pick a fight (no hard feelings here, It's all part of the game

I was just in the middle of posting a message and up popped a notification – and lo and behold, Jaguar’s got a fourth vote. Which means I will have to change the post I am currently writing (this one). I presume I am allowed to post as we are in twilight.

I am quite sorry to see you go from this game Jaguar. I only hope that you are scum (in this game) otherwise I will feel quite foolish. Anyway it seems you were up for the discussion and yes I do like a bit of a scrap, and no hard feelings here either.

[Rick]

Ok, this is getting annoying. It says I'm watching this thread, but I'm not recieving any notifications for it.

Well Mr Gnome, my notifications are certainly working, so if you are still not receiving yours, I would post something about it in the

help

forum. Just a suggestion.

[Jaguar]

Bah. Go Town!!

[Rick]

S***.

Hmm as far as I know in Twilight, anyone can post including you Jaguar. Once your death scene is posted then you can't post. I assume you know this as you are a mod. Anyway is this correct?

[Prince Kael]

So we have a lyncher, MGIA is the first to actually put a lynching vote... We also have Zero, being on every bandwagon so far.. Very suspicious...
I will not write much since the day is about to be over and there isn't anything to do anyway but here this, no every role claim is just and no scum will ever role claim as a scum... That means that saying that a person who role claims is probabely an innocent is very foolish.

A good day I must say, the best one I'd ever have (well, it is also the second game I played but whatever). Keep up the good work

[Talitha]

Different mods seem to have different opinions on whether posting in twilight is allowed or not... We haven't been told otherwise, so I guess it's OK to post.

Not a lot of point in me replying to some of the things I was about to reply to, however.

[Dourgrim]

Final Vote Count

Jaguar

- 4 (Rick, Zero, Talitha, MGIA)

burninglife

- 1 (PK)

MGIA

- 1 (Jaguar)

Jaguar is led off to the Hangin' Tree, her protests ringing loudly into the afternoon air the whole while. Moments later she's swinging lifelessly, her protests but a mere memory.

Jaguar was a

Townie

.

It is now

NIGHT TWO.

Choices due by Monday.

[Dourgrim]

Noob-erry's first light reveals a gruesome sight: the Town's Doctor lying dead in the street, apparently a victim of a single gunshot would to the back of the head.

Apparently, this Mafia nonsense is for real. Who woulda thought?

Zero

(Doctor) - killed Night Two.

It is now

DAY TWO

. With 5 alive, it'll take 3 to lynch. Lynch or lose, kids.

[Prince Kael]

Four were on the bandwagon against Jaguar, three are left. MGIA was the final one to vote... Did you really think she is scum?

[Talitha]

Ugh.. doctor down.

For those who haven't played before, this is what is referred to as a lynch-wrong-and-lose situation for the town. Therefore we need to be very cautious today with our votes, and I'd go as far as saying that no-one should vote until we have had a whole heap of discussion. All it would take is a townie voting for another townie and the scum can win the game with their two votes.

We have to discuss whether we think the cop should claim... they definitely should if they found a scum.. if they found an innocent that would clear two people and make our odds better for lynching.

I'm gonna go through the thread again now that I know Jag & Zero are innocent, and give you my thoughts (probably tomorrow).

[Zero]

Bah

[Rick]

For those who haven't played before, this is what is referred to as a lynch-wrong-and-lose situation for the town. Therefore we need to be very cautious today with our votes, and I'd go as far as saying that no-one should vote until we have had a whole heap of discussion. All it would take is a townie voting for another townie and the scum can win the game with their two votes.

Well I second that. No votes people, please. If you want to vote give an intention to vote.