Least Normal of the Normal
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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Least Normal of the Normal
ITT we discuss and create roles that are technically normal but function as anything but.
To discourage use as a collaborative deck, please do various things to prevent these posts from being used as role cards (for instance, discussing a lot, or doubleposting role ideas).Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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Combined Loud Doctor Vigilante– a visitor that can only kill ascetics.
Backup-Finder-Finder– finds backup finders.Last edited by Cook on Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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congrats for making 2 roles that aren't normal lol
strong-willed ain't a thing
Backup Finder isn't a possibility in the two cases because
- backup is a modifier, and can't be used for finder
Finder isn't a role on it's own, therefore you can't backup anything, just like you can't have a Town Enabler for instanceWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Town Personal Detective
can only find vigilantesWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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The former. A role-finder must have a specific role it finds; generic finders are not to my knowledge normal.
Edit: Technically speaking, backup is a modifier, so like Gypyx points out, that use case isn't normal either.-
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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Does this also mean no Ascetic-Finder, Bulletproof-Finder, and Ninja-Finder? Those are all listed as modifiers too.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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yes, it is specifically [role], putting a modifier is considered as a variation
think it's not that great of a feature tbh, like, why take that awayWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Umlaut Jack of All Trades
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I'm working on a game with this theme... which is why I'm not going to post any of my ideas here“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,and the other kind,’ and those whodon’tsay. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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- Location: France
if you need help with outreageous stuff i'm your man btw !White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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fixedIn post 2, Gypyx wrote:congrats for making 2 roles that aren't normal lol
strong-willed ain't a thing
Backup Finder isn't a possibility in the two cases because
- backup is a modifier, and can't be used for finder
Finder isn't a role on it's own, therefore you can't backup anything, just like you can't have a Town Enabler for instanceYour friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Jake The Wolfie he/theyMafia Scumhe/they
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Loyal Serial Killer.
That's it. That's the tweet.Show"I'm sorry that you put asbestos in your coffee."
"All dictionaries aught to have one typo."
Here's some text to break up all the links in my sig.
Currently my favorite role I've seen in a Normal.
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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Jake The Wolfie he/theyMafia Scumhe/they
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A Loyal Serial Killer basically has to endgame a non-killing townie, or else they lose. Oh, and they essentially don't have a killing ability.Show"I'm sorry that you put asbestos in your coffee."
"All dictionaries aught to have one typo."
Here's some text to break up all the links in my sig.
Currently my favorite role I've seen in a Normal.
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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Disoyal Friendly NeighbourAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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House Survivor
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They do if there are two in the game.In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:A Loyal Serial Killer basically has to endgame a non-killing townie, or else they lose. Oh, and they essentially don't have a killing ability.-
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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ActivatedplusLoyal/Disloyal, andNeighborare a role+modifier combo that interact incredibly strangely.
First of all, we must assume that while Neighbor is a passive ability, by it becoming Activated it is now an Active ability, the choice whether or not to join the Neighborhood. But at the same time,who does Loyal/Disloyal refer to?
My hypotheses are as follows:- Doesn't apply.This seems most likely.
- Disloyal/Loyal refers to the neighborhood.Thus, joining it also vets the current list of neighbors, which could be interesting if a Loyal Activated Neighbor means it can only join a neighborhood with no scum.
Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Jake The Wolfie he/theyMafia Scumhe/they
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I don't think it's considered normal to have multiple SKs in the game.In post 14, House wrote:
They do if there are two in the game.In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:A Loyal Serial Killer basically has to endgame a non-killing townie, or else they lose. Oh, and they essentially don't have a killing ability.Show"I'm sorry that you put asbestos in your coffee."
"All dictionaries aught to have one typo."
Here's some text to break up all the links in my sig.
Currently my favorite role I've seen in a Normal.
Get to know a Wolf-
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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Certainly not in Mini Normal.In post 16, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
I don't think it's considered normal to have multiple SKs in the game.In post 14, House wrote:
They do if there are two in the game.In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:A Loyal Serial Killer basically has to endgame a non-killing townie, or else they lose. Oh, and they essentially don't have a killing ability.Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Cook SheMafia ScumShe
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- Posts: 3015
- Joined: December 5, 2020
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Stapling Internet Together [89.9%]
Certainly not in Mini Normal.In post 16, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
I don't think it's considered normal to have multiple SKs in the game.In post 14, House wrote:
They do if there are two in the game.In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:A Loyal Serial Killer basically has to endgame a non-killing townie, or else they lose. Oh, and they essentially don't have a killing ability.Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae
Inventor of 3d20 //Successful Rebellion Leader//-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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........In post 11, Ircher wrote:Town Backup Neighbor
It's not abnormal per se, but it is a somewhat weird interaction.<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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it doesn't apply yesIn post 15, Cook wrote:ActivatedplusLoyal/Disloyal, andNeighborare a role+modifier combo that interact incredibly strangely.
First of all, we must assume that while Neighbor is a passive ability, by it becoming Activated it is now an Active ability, the choice whether or not to join the Neighborhood. But at the same time,who does Loyal/Disloyal refer to?
My hypotheses are as follows:- Doesn't apply.This seems most likely.
- Disloyal/Loyal refers to the neighborhood.Thus, joining it also vets the current list of neighbors, which could be interesting if a Loyal Activated Neighbor means it can only join a neighborhood with no scum.
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
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Datisi he/him, it/itsDrawn from Memoryhe/him, it/its
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In post 19, Gamma Emerald wrote:
........In post 11, Ircher wrote:Town Backup Neighbor
It's not abnormal per se, but it is a somewhat weird interaction.I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
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Kerset he/sheMafia Scumhe/she
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hey look impo did this for us!In post 670, implosion wrote:I don't think something like x-shot townie is normal; there area lotof implied semantics that exist in normal roles and modifiers. The point of this post will be to argue just that; that there are many semantics that people generally don't think about when designing roles because we usually don't need to, but that we have to respect those semantics. You can think of them like a programming language; the modifier "x-shot" expects to be modifying an active role, so something like 2-shot townie or 2-shot ascetic (without the word "activated" between them) would be like a syntax error. The semantics of a normal role are not "any number of modifiers, then either an active role or vanilla"; they have to fit together.
There are a lot of things like this that at minimum I would never pass as a reviewer and at most should never exist in a normal game. I think backup traitor also fits somewhere in there. Some other examples:
-Novice Macho Townie, Loyal Innocent Child, 3-shot Vengeful, etc. These modifiers are all supposed to modify roles that have an active ability; they're not allowed to modify a passive. There can be exceptions; a modifier like night 2 can apply to a passive role like innocent child or informed, for which there is a clear meaning and useful design space. This has precedent. But you can't just slap a modifier like loyal on a role that it has no meaning on.
-Combined cop. Combined is supposed to have two or more roles. I could probably make like a dozen different extremely specific ways to misuse combined. Like, combined even-night cop odd-night doctor. Good luck trying to figure out what that role is supposed to do. One example of a semantic at play here is that a role that is put into a "combined" clause cannot have targeting-specific modifiers attached (e.g. night-specific modifiers, indecisive, roaming, etc). It wouldn't make sense for you to have a targeting restriction on two different abilities that differ if the abilities are combined. But those abilities could have other modifiers! Combined Loyal Doctor Disloyal Roleblocker, for example, is a perfectly valid role that protects allies and blocks enemies, though probably pretty strong in the hands of town for various reasons.
-Serial killer enabler. What would it even mean for a serial killer to not be enabled? That's their alignment, not their role; their kill is essentially factional.
-Jack of all trades (Watcher, Bodyguard, Bulletproof Doctor). Jack of all trades is supposed to have active roles as its shots; it doesn't make sense for it to have a 1-shot "bulletproof doctor". Though you could do this by changing Bulletproof Doctor to Combined Doctor Activated Bulletproof (it's just that the complexity cost here would only rarely justify including so much verbiage).
I could rattle off a list of things that are ambiguously valid as well. Can you have a night 1-2 universal backup? What happens if a role dies during the day? Can you have a compulsive vengeful? Compulsive is supposed to modify activated roles, but it's obvious what is meant here, and while it's probably valid i can't think of a good reason to take that choice away from the vengeful. Even like, novice macho townie that I mentioned earlier could be considered valid. The point here isn't whether any of these is valid, the point is that there's such a combinatorially large number of ways to combine these words that we can't possibly decide all of them in advance. And also that I disagree with Umlaut's 666, and I think it gets at the heart of it: not all modifiers are the same in terms of how they can be used semantically, and one modifier being valid to attach to a vanilla townie doesn't mean all modifiers are. This ambiguity is also why there's reviewer discretion.giv me pagetop :(
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