Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

tbh I think FLeaf has way less idea what's going on than he thinks

this is also a scum slip.

If I were scum in this scenario, I would know absolutely everything.

They know I am not scum here, and it shows in their posts.

Hu Tao also has started to distance themselves, as did Bingle.

I am not confident in Bingle/Celebloki.

However, for Celeb and I be to scum together, you have to believe 1: I HARD pocketed Bingle, and 2: I chose to try and misfade Bingle for the game winning fade, which no, Hu Tao has been my push all game, it would always be Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

I called out Gob and Wiz as both likely to be town ( i did push Gob heavily at one point, but I was actively calling them town, and it was just time to get them)

I was correct on Kyouko when I said they were likely town for the Gob case.

I was correct on Thomith.

I called out that Kyouko/Hu Tao on Animated Wiz likely had scum on it, and makes a lot of sense for Hu TaoScum/Kyouko town.

With Wiz also flipping town, Hu Tao is almost always scum here.



IN ADDITION, they had already lined up the Bingle/Celeb 1v1, then the Maestro/FL 1v1, and yet fence sit for Naerys/Dunnstral DESPITE talking about town reading you.

Well I feel that you had a big part in pushing through a lot of the miseliminations like Roden

Sure, that's why I think they got killed as a main reason, supplementary reason was because they were my town core.

but do you think I choose to kill them? I'm a day play scum player, and you know this. I can easily play around PR's like that, and losing their voice hurt me a lot more.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have someone else I want to put some pressure on, but I think I want to wait a bit for people to come in and react to the current things before I move on.

I’m open to a Dunn/Wiz town/town world.

I also then ended up here, thinking Dunn/Wiz was town town. I then called out RCE as the scum slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you so against Dunn or wiz today?

Why are you so against Dunn or wiz today?

i town read Wiz, and im not feeling DunnScum anymore, Bingle convinced me.

I'm usually pretty good at reading Dunn too.

RCE/Celebloki/Hu Tao. trying this out for size.

orly now.

Hu Tao is always scum here, Dunn.

[Dunnstral]

I want to give other people a chance to respond too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t remember ever thinking Celebloki was fluffy before.

Also really don’t like the idea of Hu Tao town thinking all 3 hard town reading her are town

Cele could be scum sure, but I would prefer Dunn right now.

Hu Tao also protected the 3 people who were hard town reading them thinking there was like no chance of a scum pocketing. They defended the people who were town reading them because she knew they were in her pocket.

[Flavor Leaf]

I want to give other people a chance to respond too.

they're free to.

I'm about to hard case this still, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Then vote me out to break up some of those misconceptions. See my flip and maybe let the game start progressing instead of flaccidly plodding along. Pay attention to who let me egg them onto my wagon and who avoided it with a ten foot pole.

At this point I do think FL is probably scum.

I think Thomith is confused about what I going on about and Naerys let me egg her onto my wagon. Maybe Bingle is town.

idk why people think I'm panicking, I'm pushing my own wagon since it's the only one people seem to care about. I'm not trying to get people off of it lol. I don't consider what I'm doing as throwing btw. I'm pulling a D1 FL that my flip will maybe galvanize the game to start moving forward.

Were we hard bussing each other here to the point of making Celeb claim?

I can see Hu Tao/Celeb heavily from this day phase, but I want Bingle back in here for sure.

Maestro is 100% the safest fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

People playing in the background this day phase: AnimatedWiz, Hu Tao, RCEnigma, SirCakez, Thomith

How am I in the background?

You mostly respond to suspicion on yourself or pop in to say you're "still fine" with your vote:

Spoiler:

Interesting night kill?

lol

VOTE: Hu Tao

Why am I scum again?

They feel manipulative. Going after Gob yesterday and pushing Bingle and I today.

I feel I’m pushing Hu Tao more than Bingle here. Me being alive makes Bingle town more likely after their setup yesterday.

Still not sure why I'm being scum read by you. Can you explain?

End of day

gob

(7): Roden,

ssbm_kyouko

, AnimatedWiz, Naerys, Flavor Leaf, RCEnigma, Dunnstral
SirCakez (2): Thomith, Hu Tao
RCEnigma (1): SirCakez
ssbm_kyouko (1): Celebloki
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Roden (1): Bingle


Who was the counterwagon? Cakez? I think Wiz was the main counterwagon of Day 1.

1.05

gob

(4): SirCakez, Bingle, Roden, Flavor Leaf
AnimatedWiz (3):

ssbm_kyouko

, Hu Tao, Dunnstral
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Hu Tao (1): Naerys
RCEnigma (1): RCEnigma
Dunnstral (1): Thomith

ssbm_kyouko

(1): AnimatedWiz

Not voting (1): Celebloki

Roden and I being on Gob for both of these, Roden never leaving, is pretty townie for them, imo. Like, I just don't see the purpose of going for Gob that way as scum. I won't use that defense for me, but there were much better pushes. It's confirmed to have been a lhf fade. The AnimatedWiz wagon looks bad here. It's a 'there's scum on the wagon, or Wiz is scum' kinda thing.

Gob wagon can have scum or not, i think Gob's the type that scum would for sure just let town try to misfade, which is why I think it's not impossible for either 1.05 or end of day to be all town.

That being said, I think there's only 1 max scum on Gob in 1.05. If there are 2, it doesn't make a lot of sense here that Gob wagon stayed as the main one, even after Bingle/Cakez moved away. And I already explained why it's kinda weird for Roden (and myself, but I digress) to stay on Gob that way.

Also, why is Cakez on RCEnigma over me?

End of day wagon has 1 scum in Dunnstral or Naerys, or no scum at all. I'm already town reading Naerys, but for completionist's sake. RCEnigma, idk, i just dont see this as scum.

Thomith and Hu Tao on SirCakez means there's likely at least a scum in that section, and the fact that overlaps with the Wiz one, I really do think we're living in a Hu Tao Scum world.

Hu Tao, Dunnstral, Cakez is my solve right now.

Sure. Let's vote cakez or Dunn. I'm fine with either you want

I'm okay with voting there VOTE: Dunn

I think we go Dunn still. Bingley I'm not sure om yet. FL I'm leaning town but not sure

I still agree with Dunn gone

Why are you so against Dunn or wiz today?

I don’t remember ever thinking Celebloki was fluffy before.

Also really don’t like the idea of Hu Tao town thinking all 3 hard town reading her are town

Cele could be scum sure, but I would prefer Dunn right now.

You are not saying anything new, have not commented on Celebloki, or really explored other options.

I think I said celebloki could be scum, but right now I'm fine with you or wiz.

If Dunn town, Hu tao pushing for Wiz/Dunn and protecting Celeb while still saying they could be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, Celeb, you’re wrong on a chunk of your town reads.

Your energy is just different this game, and I’ve never had to wonder about your reads before, so that’s why I feel you are scum here.

Even when I was scum against you, I felt everything you were saying made sense, and that you had reasons for everyone.

I’ve never seen you go ‘I’m trusting my read on Kyouko so I’m trusting their reads’

Seems super lazy, and i don’t see you as a lazy player. That being said, i also don’t get why you wouldn’t try to expand more as scum, so when I think deeper into that, it looks like you’re avoiding saying certain things about players to not draw more associatives.

I’m very willing to change wagons and my view on a gamestate on a whim.

But you are trusting blindly in Hu Tao, Wiz, and Thomith, and trusting Kyouko who was already shown to have incorrect reads this game with their Gob push.

I get NKA, and I’ve been looking into that too, but Kyouku was just obv town for that push on Gob, the how they did it.

This is a decent case for why I believe pushing Celeb/FL as a team is silly because of how much we were pushing each other. I can see the possibility of scum team 'fake clearing me', and that Celeb was potentially following Hu Tao the leader.

Maybe Celeb is scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

It looks like Hu Tao has done basically nothing today I'd be down for that wagon

You are going off the assumption that mafia are scrambling to try to save me and piling onto you. I'm not mafia so likely mafia are instead sitting back doing nothing, if you are town. I find Thomith's current position suspect, they apparently want to vote me out but are voting for you instead. AnimatedWiz's iso is 85% about me and 10% defending themself. I mean look at this:

Spoiler:

Hu Tao pops in every so often to say we should eliminate someone but gives no reasoning and then makes a filler post and leaves, and then 24 hours later comes back in and says we should eliminate the same person again with no new reasoning. SirCakez seems to be busy but is angling for you in their latest post - it's a bit of a mystery what they think about me. RCEnigma's last post is saying we need votes for pressure and they're the only player not voting. They have offered some talk of the wagon but not much else, including not giving a clear stance - they just call it 'interesting'.

I don't know if this makes him town but this post makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think I'd be interested in a Dunn elim today at least.

I also got really, REALLY, bored with this game yesterday and decided to start playing more unhinged and try to get reactions out of people. I'm still figuring out how this is working out for me. If you guys do vote me off, I almost suspect the people off my wagon look worse. With the way I've been playing I think scum would want to avoid my wagon rather that get behind it.

This kind of stuff reads like flailing scum to me, like Cele doesn't know what to do to get out of the situation and is just flinging out posts
I'd join the wagon but don't want to put to E-1 so I'll go here instead

VOTE: hu tao

Like I'm looking at Hu's iso rn and they are just so vague about so much. They'll declare reads but give no explanation why and their vote movements seem to be driven more by the way the thread seems to be going then by their own scumhunting

It is NOT a coincidence that Cakez started taking a lot more heat after sussing Hu Tao.

Bingle, Cakez, and I came together later this day phase and pushed Hu Tao too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

False

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

Scratch that, they’re probs a Scum Neap here lying about their target

I’m down to move to Hu Tao, though, if we wanna let Celeb go further.

I think they’re blatantly scum claiming Neap here, but Hu Tao is also scum.

Look at this entire progression here.

I was actively calling out Celeb as lying scum

They targeted me to ease my push on Celeb that night.

I am not this type of harsh to my teammates like this.


Hu Tao went from hard hard defending Celebloki to flipping it like they have to be scum.

scum team are bussing Celeb this game, 90% sure of this.

100% sure on Maestro scum, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko is just such a weird target when we had an actual VT claim that no one really disputed should be investigated

Not true, i soft as town.

But they also claimed that they were town reading Kyouko.

It also doesn’t line up they wanted ‘lower profile’ slots.

Kyouko was one of the leads in pushing Gob and was the only obv town.

This is a scum claim.

RODEN AND I WERE RIGHT


RODEN IM SORRY BUDDY PLEASE FORGIVE ME I WILL NEVER DOUBT US SYNCING UP THAT WAY EVER AGAIN IT JUST FELT TOO MUCH

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Celeb or Hu Tao for me today. Hu Tao’s either TMI’ing Celeb town or is scum. Or they’re both scum. This isn’t town Tao.

It’s Celeb or Hu Tao for me today. Hu Tao’s either TMI’ing Celeb town or is scum. Or they’re both scum. This isn’t town Tao.

This is you just setting up for when Cele flips town

VOTE: Flavor

No more games

Hu Tao’s also trying to get me to convince

her

that she is scum, whereas if she were town, why would I ever need to do that?

On top of that, it benefits Hu Tao as scum here to defend a town Celeb because Celeb was one of the people here who put Hu Tao at the top.

Hu Tao even said they didn’t think any of the people who put them at the top of their town reads was scummy, or didn’t concern her at all, when the day prior, end of day, by her own admission she was ‘literally doing nothing’ deliberately, and yet she thinks she warrants that strong of town reads and by

only

town?

Then Celeb started getting more heat, and they began to say they could see it, and then the claim stuff happened and Hu Tao flips the other way.

On top of this, was also shouting yesterday for INVESTIGATIVE TO BE ON HU TAO.

Hu Tao’s standing in the game is in a good spot because she had townies defending and pocketing.

And she’s targeting players that disrupt that.


In addition, if I were ever scum here, I have no reason to not play along and then just start killing off the support system, so Hu Tao voting me here is also completely opportunistic of the new energy.

She doesn’t scum read me, she’s trying to prevent the threat to her support system and use the hectic energy to aid the momentum

Just read it.

I'm sold.

The team is Hu Tao/Celeb/Maestro exactly, honestly I'm locking that in, and I'll bet the game on that.

It is safest for the 2 of them to lean Celebloki because they can get bus cred, and then go for me afterwards. If Bingle dies, im conf town, I absolutely never in a million years kill a Bingle who town reads me that hard.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bingle, you sly dog, you successfully slingshotted me again.

The rest is up to you, my friend. I feel if you town read me, you gotta see I'm probably on the solve, and it's on you to convince Dunnstral.

You town read defending Dunnstral is a big reason I started to see Dunnstral as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Check it out. Hu Tao and Celeb are always aligned here, and we had it right Day 2.

Celebloki is not mafia, they are telling the truth, and no mod error has occured. Explanation coming.

That's enough effort for me not to want to vote you today Dunn.

How would everyone feel about a Naerys vote?

I’m of the mentality that Dunnstral’s defense is solid enough for me to not use that reasoning.

However,

i do think that take the out, and all the other reasons that I’ve been stating look strong.

In addition to that, the fact that this push got minimized to being about that front and center, one that has a damn good reason to stand as a good defense, it makes it feel like there’s a solid defense for Celebloki, and that seems like it was put on the stage, when I even thought the other reasons were better to begin with.

Celebloki felt solid in that post. But when I take out tone reading as well, it leans back to them being scum, which is generally a good sign.

@Roden - the similarities to the Yessiree wagon, down to it being on Day 2 both times, are too similar for me to ignore here.

I also hate the defense of “let the night resolve itself” because i know how much i love hearing that when im scum in danger. A clever scum can work around that and craft a mech puzzle narrative that works in their favor.

And in the scenario I am correct about Hu Tao/Celebloki, I am always fake guiltied tomorrow, at the cost of Celebloki, in a situation where they wiggled out a Flavor take down, not the other way around, and Hu Tao gets to brush it off.

It’s just too similar to Yessiree.

In ADDITION, Dunnstral was the other wagon, and I think Dunnstral was town being wagoned.

Oh, convenient that when Dunn started defending Celeb that Hu Tao decided to flip their read on Dunnstral.


Notice how I said Celebloki would guilty me. They specifically went against that so that I wouldn't be right, and it hard connected me with Celeb and got me to flip my read on Celebloki.

Now we're in ELO and people are pairing me up with Celebloki, the exact situation that caused this came from this set of posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

okay. im gonna take a risk here.

If you are TOWN, DO NOT VOTE.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Bingle]

Not voting outside of Celebloki, still.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not voting outside of Celebloki, still.

I’m probably not gonna

I wanna force scum to bus.

[Bingle]

I'd appreciate you unvoting Hu, FL.

I'm not convinced she's scum 100% right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'd appreciate you unvoting Hu, FL.

I'm not convinced she's scum 100% right now.

I am.

And I’m willing to bet the game on it

[Flavor Leaf]

If you aren’t voting outside of Celeb, then I have to solve this game today.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Hu Tao isn’t quick hammered, then Celebloki is the only one who isn’t 100% scum for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Hu Tao is town this game, then this game is lost anyways because it would make Hu Tao/FL Town/Town.

And association wise, this game ends eventually from the previous day associations.

So i am willing to treat this like an end game scenario and Vote Test, and force drawing lines.

I am shooting the shot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Naerys and Dunnstral are lock town for me.

If any of them pulled the wool over my eye, they did well. Good for them. Gonna feel good that they finally get me back.

Naerys for the game I was traitor in.

And frankly, Dunnstral for Animals Upick way back when I was on April Ludgate, the game from my scum guide.

I don’t think they’ve gotten me back for that ones

I don’t think they will here either.

I’m taking the leap.