Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Erratus Apathos]

Erratus is lying. Before you hammer me, take one second to consider the game. Does EA's play make sense from the perspective of him being a tracker? If he legitimately had a result on me killing Jebus, why the hell would he not claim it yesterday? Instead, he pushed a weak case on me, resulting in a no lynch. Is that pro-town in any sense of the word? Why would Erratus catch the Serial Killer as a tracker, AND THEN LET HIM LIVE?

Can any of you honestly say that you, as a tracker, would catch the Serial Killer and then do nothing about it? Unless that answer is yes (in which case I would ask that you re-examine your playstyle), then Erratus is obviously scum.

I was gunning for Goat early and constantly D2. Apart from a short vote on Huntress, I can't even remember NOT gunning for Goat D2. I don't see how Goat can forget this easily.

One thing I don't get is why he would throw himself away to lynch me, unless he is part of a scum group that wins from doing this. I think it is imperative that we lynch him today, because most assuredly he wouldn't pull a move like this unless he wins otherwise.

How could the scum group win with the serial killer still alive? This only makes sense if you're the serial killer.

I haven't gone through everything yet, but these two posts alone from yesterday should be enough to prove that EA is lying.

Keep in mind this is from the perspective that he's a tracker who caught a serial killer. He first holds back from mass claiming because we ran out of time. That's mistake number 1. If he was telling the truth, he would either push to get a claim out of me, or claim himself to get a lynch yesterday on me.

That's not a mistake, that's being realistic. In 646, it took bloody forever for five players with one lurker to massclaim. Eight players with three lurkers (before xtoxm replaced one) massclaiming in four days is impossible, much less picking out a lynch afterwards.

Secondly, he has powerful evidence to believe that I'm the serial killer...and yet he's willing to swap over to vote Huntress if necessary? Because that makes sense...

Powerful evidence or not, keeping my vote on an implausible lynch close to deadline is stupid. (Gee, this argument sounds familiar )

If you were a pro-town tracker, and you tracked a player who targeted dead scum, wouldn't you assume they were the vigilante? If he's pro-town here, he has no indication that the mafia don't control a kill or that there is even a SK in the game.

Why would you come into the thread and immediately vote for someone you tracked performing the pro-town action of killing scum? That makes absolutely no sense. Erratus continues to push his case on me throughout the day, despite having tracked me shoot scum.

If you were the vig, it would not make sense for you to kill Jebus. You attacked the lurkers (lurkers at the time being humscunter, crywolf, militant, and PlaysWithSquirrels), and later decided to keep your eye on militant, springlullaby, and me. But you never once mentioned Jebus. That is decidedly not how vigs play.

EA, why did you sit on this investigation?

I thought I could get Goat lynched without claiming.

[Goatrevolt]

I was gunning for Goat early and constantly D2. Apart from a short vote on Huntress, I can't even remember NOT gunning for Goat D2. I don't see how Goat can forget this easily.

Forget what? Yes, you were gunning for me, but not in any way that makes sense.

You claimed to see me target Jebus, who was scum and died that night. Despite this, you pushed for me as scum. I've explained already why this does not fit the mentality of a pro-town player. If you are town, there has been only 1 kill per night. The natural assumption is simple: There is a scum group who has been killing every night. When you see a member of that scum group die, and a player target them, you assume it's a vig who shot them. Why would you assume there is a serial killer with only 1 kill per night? That isn't logical.

I'm going to go out of my way here. I'm going to give you the ridiculous benefit of the doubt and assume that you ACTUALLY would believe me to be a serial killer, despite how absurd that actually is. If that were the case, why would you switch votes to Huntress AFTER Clockwork claimed information that would fit your idea of me as a serial killer? No, sir. You've just been given information to fit your idea of me as a serial killer, so you swap votes to someone else? Bullshit.

Your claim doesn't fit your play. Thanks for overextending yourself to try to get me lynched. I appreciate it. Now, could we get some rope, please?

How could the scum group win with the serial killer still alive? This only makes sense if you're the serial killer.

Say there are 3 scum alive. You get a mislynch today, and the serial killer shoots a townie. You win.

Say the serial killer even shoots scum. You still make out fine. You got rid of me, at the cost of yourself, who was probably going to be high on the list of players to lynch after I came up town, anyway.

Either way, doing this creates a mislynch on me, which is beneficial for you even in the worst case scenario.

That's not a mistake, that's being realistic. In 646, it took bloody forever for five players with one lurker to massclaim. Eight players with three lurkers (before xtoxm replaced one) massclaiming in four days is impossible, much less picking out a lynch afterwards.

Nice misdirect. So why didn't you claim your information yourself? Or why didn't you suggest you had role related reasons to extract a claim from me? Lurkers being unable to mass claim completely skirts the question, which is why didn't you personally claim your information?

Powerful evidence or not, keeping my vote on an implausible lynch close to deadline is stupid. (Gee, this argument sounds familiar )

Right. So you think I'm the serial killer, and rather than claim that information to the town, you swap votes to another target because your weak case on me isn't enough to garner support. That makes total sense from a town perspective .

If you were the vig, it would not make sense for you to kill Jebus. You attacked the lurkers (lurkers at the time being humscunter, crywolf, militant, and PlaysWithSquirrels), and later decided to keep your eye on militant, springlullaby, and me. But you never once mentioned Jebus. That is decidedly not how vigs play.

That is exactly how vigs play. Vigs oftentimes shoot under the radar players who they have difficulty getting a read on.

This is quite the nice explanation post facto to cover the gaping holes in your story though.

I mean, I know when I'm town and I track someone shooting scum, my first instinct is this: "Despite no information in the thread to support this, the mafia probably don't control a kill, so this is the work of a serial killer, and he ended up shooting scum this time. I'm going to push him with a weak case, and show willingness to hop to other targets around lynch time. In fact, if someone else were to present information to support my theory, I would follow that information by directly changing my vote to another target, even though my information just was proven correct. In no situation should I claim, because my tracker role is too valuable to expose to get rid of the serial killer. Instead I'm going to wait until someone else claims, and then I'm going to claim afterwards."

I'm not sure about what the rest of you naturally think. Please enlighten me.

EA, why did you sit on this investigation?

I thought I could get Goat lynched without claiming.

Just ignore his vote change to Huntress. He was just doing that to throw me off his track! Even with his vote on Huntress, he was still doing all he could before deadline to get me lynched. Of course, claiming was out of the question, though.

[Xtoxm]

I'm kinda wanting to vote EA.

[Goatrevolt]

Helloooooooooooo???

I shouldn't have to remind everyone that this game does have deadlines.

[Huntress]

I think we're waiting for Springlullaby now. She's the only one who hasn't claimed yet and I'm interested in seeing how her claim will fit in with the others. Also hoping she will finally answer the questions we've been asking her.

[crywolf20084]

I think we're waiting for Springlullaby now.

She's the only one who hasn't claimed yet and I'm interested in seeing how her claim will fit in with the others.

Also hoping she will finally answer the questions we've been asking her.

Bolded for emphasis.

She's had lots of time to come up with something that may fit in with the flavor.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Spring

[Goatrevolt]

I think springlullaby is on vacation. She's posted on these forums recently, but hasn't posted in any of her games, so I'm not ready to burn her at the stake for that alone.

I think she's the SK. I don't think she fits with Erratus as scum, based on some earlier interactions, but much of her play leads me to believe she is scum anyway.

However, because of the way Erratus lied to get me lynched, I think the mafia are close to winning this game, and thus our lynch needs to be Erratus. The nature of EA's claim is such that if you mislynch me, it becomes obvious he is scum. He claimed to track me targeting a player. I've claimed a role that doesn't target anyone. If I get lynched and show up as town, it would have been obvious he was lying and thus he would have been the lynch tomorrow. Because of this, I don't think EA makes that play unless his team is really close to winning. 1-1 trades are usually bad for scum. He has to be the lynch today, otherwise we run the risk of just losing, even if we did lynch the SK.

We need to lynch mafia (EA) and then hope night actions work out to our favor (SK gets blocked. Mafia recruitment gets blocked. SK shoots scum, etc.)

[militant]

I just got back from holiday, I will re read in the morning and get up to date.

[Xtoxm]

What is it with people going on holiday at christmas?!

[Ythill]

The Tally

2 ~ Goatrevolt (Erratus Apothos, militant)
2 ~ Springlullaby (Huntress, Xtxom)
1 ~ Erratus Apathos (Goatrevolt)

Not voting: crywolf20084, springlullaby, ClockworkRuse

D4 Prods: Goatrevolt (1); Militant (1); Xtoxm (1).
Overall Prods: Huntress (1); springlullaby (1); militant (2); crywolf20084 (1).
Automatic deadline: Friday, January 9 at 14:00 MST (GMT-7).

[Erratus Apathos]

I was gunning for Goat early and constantly D2. Apart from a short vote on Huntress, I can't even remember NOT gunning for Goat D2. I don't see how Goat can forget this easily.

Forget what? Yes, you were gunning for me, but not in any way that makes sense.

You claimed to see me target Jebus, who was scum and died that night. Despite this, you pushed for me as scum. I've explained already why this does not fit the mentality of a pro-town player. If you are town, there has been only 1 kill per night. The natural assumption is simple: There is a scum group who has been killing every night. When you see a member of that scum group die, and a player target them, you assume it's a vig who shot them. Why would you assume there is a serial killer with only 1 kill per night? That isn't logical.

If you're having any doubts that Goat is scum, just look at this shit. He's trying to argue that it's illogical to assume there's more than one scum group,

after a night when the only killed player was scum

! Can anyone here say, when you read Jebus's deathscene, that you didn't consider the possibility of another scumgroup?

I'm going to go out of my way here. I'm going to give you the ridiculous benefit of the doubt and assume that you ACTUALLY would believe me to be a serial killer, despite how absurd that actually is. If that were the case, why would you switch votes to Huntress AFTER Clockwork claimed information that would fit your idea of me as a serial killer? No, sir. You've just been given information to fit your idea of me as a serial killer, so you swap votes to someone else? Bullshit.

No shit I wanted to lynch you more than Huntress! I made it clear that I was only switching to Huntress out of necessity, with three days to deadline and nobody joining me on your wagon.

Say there are 3 scum alive. You get a mislynch today, and the serial killer shoots a townie. You win.

Say the serial killer even shoots scum. You still make out fine. You got rid of me, at the cost of yourself, who was probably going to be high on the list of players to lynch after I came up town, anyway.

If you turned up town, the SK would keep the game alive by killing me. This is nonsensical fearmongering.

Nice misdirect. So why didn't you claim your information yourself? Or why didn't you suggest you had role related reasons to extract a claim from me? Lurkers being unable to mass claim completely skirts the question, which is why didn't you personally claim your information?

And then I either die or get roleblocked for the rest of the game, great idea! If I thought a 1 for 1 trade was optimal, I would've claimed first thing, not at the last minute.

If you were the vig, it would not make sense for you to kill Jebus. You attacked the lurkers (lurkers at the time being humscunter, crywolf, militant, and PlaysWithSquirrels), and later decided to keep your eye on militant, springlullaby, and me. But you never once mentioned Jebus. That is decidedly not how vigs play.

That is exactly how vigs play. Vigs oftentimes shoot under the radar players who they have difficulty getting a read on.

Sure there are times when you just gotta say "Fuck it, I'm shooting k7" but this wasn't one. Jebus wasn't even under the radar; militant, humscunter, and crywolf were.

But I guess I gotta admit you have a point, I mean, I know when I'm a vig, my first instinct is this: "So there are nine other players alive today. I think what I'll do is I'll accuse seven of them to varying degrees over the course of the day, then I'll use my vig kill on one of the other two."

[springlullaby]

Happy new year everybody, and claim first, thoughts later.

I'm the cook and I look after the galley. I have a oneshot ability (day) that I haven't used yet. Let me look at this more closely before I decide if I want to say or not.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Goat

I believe EA.

[springlullaby]

Say there are 3 scum alive. You get a mislynch today, and the serial killer shoots a townie. You win.

Say the serial killer even shoots scum. You still make out fine. You got rid of me, at the cost of yourself, who was probably going to be high on the list of players to lynch after I came up town, anyway.

If you turned up town, the SK would keep the game alive by killing me. This is nonsensical fearmongering.

EA, please answer this, something seems unclear here, do you think Goat is cult or SK? And please you describe what you were thinking when you pushed for his lynch yesterday.

Also, looking things over I see no benefit in my keeping my power secret. I can prevent one mislynch in twilight by giving rum to everyone on board, basically I'm a governor.

[Ythill]

"Aaaaarrrrrggh! The holidays be over mateys. I 'xpect ye ta be singin' wit' yer mates. I'll be bustin' out me nine tails soon enough. Don't make me throw a body ta the deep."

The Tally

3 ~ Goatrevolt (Erratus Apothos, militant, Xtoxm)
1 ~ Springlullaby (Huntress)
1 ~ Erratus Apathos (Goatrevolt)

Not voting: crywolf20084, springlullaby, ClockworkRuse

D4 Prods: Goatrevolt (1); Militant (1); Xtoxm (1).
Overall Prods: Huntress (1); springlullaby (1); militant (2); crywolf20084 (1).
Automatic deadline: Friday, January 9 at 14:00 MST (GMT-7).

[Huntress]

Springlullaby's claim looks plausible but I'll be happier once I've had some reasonable responses from her to my earlier posts.

There's something that doesn't quite add up between Clockwork, EA and Goat but I'm going to have to re-read to work out just what it is.

[Goatrevolt]

If you're having any doubts that Goat is scum, just look at this shit. He's trying to argue that it's illogical to assume there's more than one scum group,

after a night when the only killed player was scum

! Can anyone here say, when you read Jebus's deathscene, that you didn't consider the possibility of another scumgroup?

I didn't. I'm not in the habit of randomly assuming multiple scum groups when there is only 1 kill per night. If I track someone shooting scum, my natural thought process is that they are probably the vig unless information in the thread would prove otherwise.

It seems your "natural thought process" was to assume Serial Killer despite the absurdity of it, but then swap targets after given information to suggest that actually being correct. Seems backwards.

No shit I wanted to lynch you more than Huntress! I made it clear that I was only switching to Huntress out of necessity, with three days to deadline and nobody joining me on your wagon.

You continue to dodge the heart of the matter. Quite simply, you claimed to track me kill Jebus, but didn't do anything about it. Your actions to me before clockwork's claim don't make sense with the information available to a town tracker. Your actions make even less sense after clockwork's claim. If you were legitimately a town tracker who tracked me shoot Jebus, you would have claimed and gotten me lynched after Clockwork's claim. You wouldn't have jumped to Huntress because nobody was buying your weak case.

If you can provide any kind of a legitimate reason why you wouldn't claim your role to get me lynched yesterday, be my guest. Instead you waited to claim your role until after Militant claimed, which was a completely useless time to claim. You didn't claim yesterday when it was important to do so. You did claim today when it was completely irrelevant. That doesn't make sense from the perspective of a town player. It makes a hell of a lot of sense from scum.

And then I either die or get roleblocked for the rest of the game, great idea! If I thought a 1 for 1 trade was optimal, I would've claimed first thing, not at the last minute.

Wow, seriously? This is your reason?

How many kills have we seen a night? 1. According to your claim you caught the person making those kills. If you claim, and get me lynched, then you don't have to worry about dying. In other words, your logic makes zero sense.

In addition, you were the one who was pushing for a mass claim. But here you say you didn't want to claim because you were worried about being roleblocked? Do I even need to say more about how his claim makes no sense?

People, it should be glaringly obvious that EA is scum by this point. He claimed to be a tracker, but only claimed this after militant made his claim. EA was pushing for mass claim yesterday, but today he says he didn't want to claim his role because he was worried about getting roleblocked. That right there is obvious proof he's lying. He claimed to track me killing Jebus, but then was willing to swap to Huntress AFTER clockwork makes his claim. More obvious proof. None of these actions make sense.

Please, if you are town and actually care whatsoever about winning this game listen to what I'm saying here. I've pointed out numerous inconsistencies in EA's story. Townies never have inconsistencies like this. You know why? Because they are town and they play to better the town. When you look through their actions, you see that they all make sense from the perspective of someone out to win for the town. Look at EA's actions. I've pointed out reasons why they don't make sense from someone actually playing a town tracker role.

Read through all my posts this game. If you can legitimately find a place where you don't think my play makes sense based on my claimed role then point it out. Can you legitimately find somewhere this game where you think I've been trying to push a scum agenda, or doing something anti-town? You won't find anything. It's because I'm town.

You have EA, whose play doesn't make sense based on his claim, and who has done pretty much nothing the entire game, except weakly push me and hop to targets at deadlines. On the other hand, I have been legitimately scum hunting, and I have a claimed role that fits with the way I've played this game.

@Xtoxm: You're jumping around a lot, and you are completely unwilling to vote EA and have been all game. Mind giving us actual reasons why you think he's town or are you his scum buddy? I've played 2 games with EA, one where he was scum and one where he was town. This looks nothing like his town play (the game I was scum, the game you were in as well. Don't you remember).

@Clockwork: I want to hear what you have to say about all this. Take a stand.

@Springlullaby: Claim is plausible, I'm thinking about it. What happens if you use your ability and stop a mislynch? Does it still go to night?

@Everyone else: Read. Think about it logically. Re-read through day 3 again and think about how you would have played the game if you were EA and a tracker. Pretend you didn't know about clockwork's claim until he makes the claim. Go back and play that out from a town perspective and you'll see how ridiculous his claim looks in light of his play.

[springlullaby]

Yes, it still goes to night.

First I want a

deadline extension please

, and everybody should be voting for it right now.

Second here is the thing, on one hand I don't think EA's action makes sense atm, on the other I think Goat and Huntress shows up as linked which most probably indicates mafia given their claims.

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

Right now I have her at defo scum though but I'm not sure I want to lynch her because if anything her action indicates that Goat is most probable cult leader than she is, because i don't figure a cult leader would out themselves so easily in the interest of defending a cultee. Here, I'd like to see what Goat's has to say to that and his take on Huntress' action.

2) Now all this is working on the assumption that a cult exists, and this assumption needs to be examined: it is only Clockworkruse's word that made us aware of it.

Right now I trust his words, because I think his push for massclaim yesterday is very much town an makes sense in light of his claim, and him lying on this seems too much of a stretch.

The con against that is that he has apparently been offered the possibility of choosing against being culted which doesn't seem to make sense. But you see, a possible explanation for this is that it is flavor, and this is what I'm thinking because it makes no sense for Clock to reveal that bit of information if he were cult aligned.

I also very much doubt that he is 'normal' mafia fakeclaiming cult in the interest of spreading paranoia because of his officer rank.

The last alternative is that he is SK, which is not very likely because of his confirming people's role.

--->My conclusion on this is that cult is trustable assumption and that Clock is very probably town, and still is.

Next I'm going to examine the SK assumption and Xtoxm.

[springlullaby]

Forgot to say:

Huntress asked me to answer her questions. I think her question sucksn are loaded and faulty, and fail in every way to show genuine assertiveness or scumhunting merit.

BUT I'm ok to answer them if she agrees to present her case on me properly in one tidy post. Something she is not going begrudge me if she is town and genuinely interested in finding out whether I'm scum, I'm sure.

[Goatrevolt]

Second here is the thing, on one hand I don't think EA's action makes sense atm, on the other I think Goat and Huntress shows up as linked which most probably indicates mafia given their claims.

Your entire argument is based on Huntress' unwillingness to lynch me. How does that make me scum? A fairly fundamental rule of mafia I've learned is to not link players until one of them is dead. Basing a lynch off of a supposed link between players is pretty meaningless. I could make up a link between two players in the game and use it as a basis to suggest we should lynch one of them. However, I haven't shown at all why that makes one of them more likely to be scum. For example, I can say something like: Militant doesn't want to lynch Crywolf, thus I think they are mafia together. That doesn't mean anything unless Crywolf dies and shows up as mafia. Then we can say "oh, Militant didn't want to lynch Crywolf, maybe he's her scum buddy", etc.

In essence, your argument is that you believe me to be mafia entirely from the perspective that you think Huntress is scum and Huntress didn't want to lynch me. What if Huntress is town? What if Huntress is scum and simply didn't want to dirty her hands with my mislynch? What if Huntress is scum and thought no lynch was better than a townie lynch? These are all perfectly plausible explanations.

Don't lynch me because you think Huntress is scum. That's bad logic. You think Huntress is scum: A. If Huntress is scum, then you think I'm scum: B. You can't do B before A, when B is reliant on the results from A.

Furthermore, EA's claim is that he tracked me targeting Jebus the night Jebus died. EA's "claim" paints me as the Serial Killer, not mafia. If you think EA is telling the truth with his claim, then I'm the SK, which makes any tie between me and Huntress meaningless. On the other hand, if you think EA is lying, then the only thing that makes sense is that he's part of the mafia, in which case it becomes obvious that I'm not also mafia. The only possible way I could be mafia is if I happened to be a mafioso with an ability, who also targeted Jebus the night he died, and EA is telling the truth about his claim despite the large number of inconsistencies. This is a very unlikely scenario.

Here, I'd like to see what Goat's has to say to that and his take on Huntress' action.

I'll have to review Huntress' actions, but I didn't find them scummy at the time. She waited for me to claim and then backed off when I claimed to be a power role. That seems fully normal play for town. I don't see how you could possibly consider this any scummier than EA's claim that he had information basically proving me to be a serial killer, but didn't claim it and even unvoted me to move to Huntress. If you think EA is town, then he is entirely to blame for the no lynch yesterday. He should have claimed his role and information when it became clear that he wasn't going to lynch me through conventional means. Instead he hopped to Huntress, hopped back to me later on, and then completely disappeared for a while until the no lynch happened.

He didn't claim information on me because he didn't have information on me, because he is lying. If EA is town he allowed no lynch to happen by not claiming his role. His response is that he didn't want to make himself a night kill target. This makes no sense. His role information was that I was the serial killer. He makes himself a night kill target by letting me live (especially because if I was actually the serial killer, who would I shoot? I'd shoot the guy trying to get me lynched). He alleviates himself as a night kill target by claiming so I die, thus preventing me from killing him. How would he be a night kill target if he gets us to lynch the person making the night kills? Can I make it any clearer than this that he is scum? There is no defensible stance he can take to explain the way he acted. Unless you believe EA to be an extraordinarily bad mafia player, there is simply no way he can be town and make these plays.

I seriously don't know why EA is still alive at this point. There are so many inconsistencies in his story. If you are a town aligned player, I don't see how you could be voting for anyone other than EA. Also, this lynch has to be either me or EA. One of us is lying and is scum. I think it's quite obvious who that is, but I've explained that in far more words than I thought it was going to have to take.

To answer your questions succinctly, springlullaby, I think your case pairing Huntress and myself is very circumstantial. What if Huntress is town? Your entire theory that I'm scum with her falls apart. There are also plenty of explanations where Huntress could be scum and I could still be town. I think this would be a very weak reason to lynch me (essentially lynching me because you think someone else is scum), especially in the face of the overwhelming evidence of EA lying. Once EA is dead and shows up as scum, it will then be clear that your pairing of Huntress and myself is not right, because I no longer make sense as mafia.

Yes, it still goes to night.

Unfortunate. If the scum manage to con enough people into lynching me today, I would ask that you use it on me. This will confirm you have your role and it is what you claim it to be. Actually, you should use it on the first town player that would get lynched from here on out. If you do not do this, the rest of the town should immediately lynch you the following day.

If you legitimately have this role, then I think it's quite likely that you are town. You should use it first opportunity to both confirm this and keep another townie alive.

First I want a deadline extension please, and everybody should be voting for it right now.

I'll second this call.

Deadline extension please

. Quite frankly, though, we shouldn't need a deadline. This lynch is between me and EA. One of us should have been lynched days ago, but the lurking this game is absolutely ridiculous, and most of the people guilty are those I consider town, which is sad. If you are lurking and are town, you are seriously costing us the game. Get in here. Read the game. Do something useful. Or get replaced. If you're not willing to actually read the game or put any effort in to it, please just get replaced, so someone else who actually cares can take your spot.

---

About Clockwork Ruse: Him claiming the information about the cult seems pro-town, but there are two issues that I can't get past. The first is that he was given the option to accept, which is kind of fishy. The second is his push on EA early in the day, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense since clockwork inspected EA and saw him to be an officer. Honestly, I'm leaning towards CR being the cult leader. His role of checking for officers/non officers means he is essentially a role cop (a role generally found on scum, not town). His role only weakly benefits town, but would largely benefit a scum group who is trying to recruit players. There is also the issue of this mysterious other roleblocker who nobody else has any confirmation of. When you add all of this together, I'm highly skeptical that he's town.

I think it's safe to assume that there is a serial killer and a mafia group, though. Based on both Clockwork and Xtoxm's claims and Jebus getting shot I don't think there is any chance of there not being a SK and mafia.

[Xtoxm]

Hi Goat.

tl;dr

I've played with EA several times now, i've only seen him town, his plays looked similar in all imo.

I've seen you scum twice Goat and you talked lots pretty much as you are now.

EA did seem certain you were scum yesterday, and that gives credence to his claim. I could very well see Huntress as scum, however it looks like Goat is SK.

[Goatrevolt]

Finally, in regards to clockwork, I found these series of posts to be very suspicious:

Vote: Goatrevolt

I'm a tracker (boatswain). Goat targeted Jebus night 2.

Huntress targeted nobody last night, and I investigated her predecessor on the first night but did not get a result.

Vote: Goatrevolt

I can confirm EA's role name and it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker.

EA makes his claim and Clockwork immediately follows it up with confirmation and a vote on me. I'll also note that EA's claim provides no real new information on Huntress, considering Huntress just claimed vanilla above this point.

The "and it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker" part rubs me the wrong way, as he gives no justification to this point at all. Why doesn't it benefit scum to claim tracker? Tracker is actually a common scum fake claim, because it's easy to fake (Huntress didn't target anyone last night right after she claims vanilla, for instance).

All in all, after we lynch EA and he's scum, Clockwork is then on the top of my list. If Springlullaby is town, then Xtoxm is my pick for Serial Killer. Xtoxm also makes sense as a player who would have tried to shoot me last night, considering I was the one shedding doubt on his claim.

----

So we have:

Cult/Mafia - EA and Clockwork.
Serial Killer - Xtoxm

The rest are then by nature town. Huntress's vanilla claim makes sense based on her play (she pushed against Crywolf based on the vanilla flavor). Crywolf's vanilla claim makes sense based on her play. I can confirm that Militant is a jailkeeper, which seems pro-town in this setup. I think he's pro-town based on his play anyway. Springlullaby would then also be town based on her role (which I don't see on scum unless she was recruited). If springlullaby can't confirm her role, then she would be scum, but for now I'm going to assume she probably can.

[Goatrevolt]

Hi Xtoxm:

You've never seen me as town. You've never seen EA as scum, so where are your meta arguments coming from again?

[Goatrevolt]

EA did seem certain you were scum yesterday, and that gives credence to his claim.

He was "certain" about me being scum yesterday before there was any information in the thread to even suggest there was a serial killer. Once that information became available EA moved his vote to Huntress. Explain how this makes sense again.

Also, you saying tl;dr to my posts, ignoring what I say, then pushing for my lynch based on a completely horrible meta read (you haven't seen me as town, or EA as scum, so you have no basis) at a critical moment in this game isn't upping my opinion of your townieness.