Mini #704: Hunchback of Notre Dame, Game Over

[CarnCarn]

It would be nice if the people voting/FoSing him actually gave some reasons as to why self-voting in the *random* stage of the game suggests one is scum?

I don't think he's scum for self-voting. Remind me to give my reasons for voting later (i.e., after the random stage).

[urielzyx]

It would be nice if the people voting/FoSing him actually gave some reasons as to why self-voting in the *random* stage of the game suggests one is scum?

I don't think he's scum for self-voting. Remind me to give my reasons for voting later (i.e., after the random stage).

The whole point of RV is to create discussion, why don't you want to discuss right now?

[petroleumjelly]

Day One: Vote Count #2

2 Caboose (Mizzy, Battousai)
2 Ramus (Ramus, CarnCarn)
1 Battousai (Caboose)
1 ClockworkRuse (urielzyx)
1 Machiavellian-Mafia (MiteyMouse)
1 MiteyMouse (Machiavellian-Mafia)
1 Puta Puta (ThAdmiral)
1 ThAdmiral (ortolan)
1 urielzyx (ClockworkRuse)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch, and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline hits on December 1 at 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 1 – Puta Puta

Mod Note: I will be away from Nov. 12 – Nov. 14. During that time, MafiaSSK will be assuming mod duties. If there is a lynch, however, I have asked him to simply lock the thread and wait until I return to give the lynch scene. If you have questions about the game, you may ask him those but be forewarned that only my rulings will be authoritative.

[ClockworkRuse]

## Vote: ThAdmiral

because I voted him in another game also and I like to be consistent

There was just an extremely lengthy theory discussion in another game I am playing based on self-voting. It was agreed, as Ramus said, that it's subjective and there's nothing inherently scummy about self-voting. It would be nice if the people voting/FoSing him actually gave some reasons as to why self-voting in the *random* stage of the game suggests one is scum?

Why do you use the ## too?

[Mizzy]

...and your answer to the first question is?

Is subjective.

Unvote. Vote: Ramus.

That was not an answer that, in my opinion, is pro-town. Subjective, or not, it was a valid and useful question that deserved a valid and useful answer, which it did not receive. While I don't think self-voting is a scumtell or scummy at all, I do feel that being intentionally vague IS scummy.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

## Vote: ThAdmiral

because I voted him in another game also and I like to be consistent

There was just an extremely lengthy theory discussion in another game I am playing based on self-voting. It was agreed, as Ramus said, that it's subjective and there's nothing inherently scummy about self-voting. It would be nice if the people voting/FoSing him actually gave some reasons as to why self-voting in the *random* stage of the game suggests one is scum?

I never suggested self-voting to be scummy. I'm just inquiring about it since I rarely see this ploy. It also generates discussion.

[Mizzy]

Oh, and by the way, I took the original question to be "Why did you self-vote?" The answer to that is not "It's subjective." I want an answer to why he decided to self-vote.

[Ramus]

Oh, and by the way, I took the original question to be "Why did you self-vote?" The answer to that is not "It's subjective." I want an answer to why he decided to self-vote.

Because I felt like doing it.

[Mizzy]

Oh, and by the way, I took the original question to be "Why did you self-vote?" The answer to that is not "It's subjective." I want an answer to why he decided to self-vote.

Because I felt like doing it.

So why, exactly, couldn't you have just answered that in the first place? Why did you have to be purposely vague and unhelpful?

[Caboose]

Oh, and by the way, I took the original question to be "Why did you self-vote?" The answer to that is not "It's subjective." I want an answer to why he decided to self-vote.

Because I felt like doing it.

So why, exactly, couldn't you have just answered that in the first place? Why did you have to be purposely vague and unhelpful?

This.

Also, what's the meta on Ramus. Does he have a history of doing this (like Natirasha) or is this a first time thing?

@Ramus: Please forgive me if I use the incorrect pronoun and feel free to correct me.

[Ramus]

Oh, and by the way, I took the original question to be "Why did you self-vote?" The answer to that is not "It's subjective." I want an answer to why he decided to self-vote.

Because I felt like doing it.

So why, exactly, couldn't you have just answered that in the first place? Why did you have to be purposely vague and unhelpful?

This.

Also, what's the meta on Ramus. Does he have a history of doing this (like Natirasha) or is this a first time thing?

@Ramus: Please forgive me if I use the incorrect pronoun and feel free to correct me.

It's a first time.

[CarnCarn]

It's a first time.

That's what she said.

[Ramus]

Talking about nonexistent people is a sign of insanity.

[CarnCarn]

It would be nice if the people voting/FoSing him actually gave some reasons as to why self-voting in the *random* stage of the game suggests one is scum?

I don't think he's scum for self-voting. Remind me to give my reasons for voting later (i.e., after the random stage).

The whole point of RV is to create discussion, why don't you want to discuss right now?

I'm all for discussion, but I think my comments might have a counter-productive effect ATM. That's why I said I'll explain later. I want to see how things start unfolding.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@Ramus you ignored my questions again:

What benefits do you think self-voting provide? Do you think self-voting is a better option than random voting?

[MafiaSSK]

Hello! Do any of you mind if I use a different format for vote counts then PJ did?

[ortolan]

nah go ahead, you only live once.

[urielzyx]

I don't mind, about the self voting, why would it be scummy? RV's are for creating discussion and so RVing your self would be just as good as RVing someone else...

[MiteyMouse]

Self voting at the random stage is not necessarily Scummy to me...self voting later might be.

[Mizzy]

Self-voting in the early stage is definitely not indicative of scum, but allow me to toss out my thoughts on the subject. This is going to serve two purposes, the first being to encourage discussion and the second being to share advice.

Self-voting in the random voting stage is not indicative of role or alignment, however, self-voting in the random stage is also lazy on the part of the voter and also tends to hurt the town later (in my opinion.)

The point of random voting is to give the town links and past connections/trends to look at later when the game is farther along, and also to begin discussion rolling. Now, granted, his self-vote did begin discussion, but I don't feel his vote was cast with that thought in mind, meaning that the discussion that was brought on by it was an unintentional side-effect. The first point of random voting, though, he has completely bypassed by self-voting. We have no connection we can draw on this later, nothing we can glean from it because it is a null-tell. So, whether he meant to or not, his small act (while not scummy in and of itself) has possibly helped scum.

His subsequent lack-of-answer and the dodging of questions was more telling than the self-vote, though, so I am glad he did what he did.

Now, keep in mind that this is opinion of mine, but I am going to keep my vote where I am for two reasons. 1) Because I feel that his question-dodging was scummy and 2) I feel that some pressure here might give us far more information than we could get from his random-vote alone.

[Mizzy]

So why, exactly, couldn't you have just answered that in the first place? Why did you have to be purposely vague and unhelpful?

Also, I am still waiting for an answer to this. Stop dodging and start playing, kthx.

[urielzyx]

Conections from RV are WIFOM anyway, also, they do not help here because SK has no conections to anyone...

[Battousai]

UNVOTE,
Vote: Ramus

Pressure good.

Mizzy: Ramus might have thought those questions were rhetorical, as I did. When you ask someone why they are so stupid, the person usually doesn't tell you he was dropped on his head a lot as a kid. Usually. But Ramus has also not answered questions from Machiavellian-Mafia as well, so Ramus might be intentionally stopped answering certain questions.

[urielzyx]

EBWOP: Ignore the second part, I thought for a moment we were in AITH...

[Mizzy]

Battousai: One should always pretend, in MS, that a question asked is not rhetorical if one wants to live long enough to see night one.