Newbie 2039 | Endgame

[Hank Spankems]

Hey Hey, People

Seems the party has started without me.
That said, being on time is so awfully drab.

Whilst I've never played forum mafia, I am familiar with others of the genre.

[Hank Spankems]

The question is, did God take pity on these newbies here?

God's mercy, despite the best efforts of man to understand it, is still largely a mystery. As such, it seems only time will tell.

In other news, this phase of the game doesn't seem all that likely to produce much in the way of leads. But hey, who cares about leads when you can relentlessly overthink every word someone says? (Guilty as charged)

Now, as far as my own ideas go, I've not seen anything out of the usual (as far as the newbie folk go, anyway). Ms Faria is posting without relent and Wivern seems to have a more interesting game to spend his attentions on for the moment. I'll have to do some more reading, but as it stands, nothing stands out as uncharacteristic or unexplainable.

*waves* Hi Hank! Glad you could make it.

Not as glad as I am to see you!

fingerguns.jpg

Anywho, that's all from me. Goodnight, all.

[Hank Spankems]

sorry, don't understand... what do you mean?

Quite simply, my dear Salsabil, you are unapologetically vocal; you post a lot. Which is fine, of course, don't get me wrong. I'm just highlighting the fact that you seem to separate your responses into individual replies as opposed to collating them all into a single post.

I guess I lost like two posts. It was me explaining why I started to lean town on Hank, amongst some other thoughts of my Mafia Philosophy. I'll retype it up later, I guess. =/ Shame, I'll likely be away today and tomorrow.

Well, I appreciate the sentiment.

You know what you're talking about, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Mafia and their philosophical machinations, once you're back. In the meantime I'll see what I can glean from your

shamelessly

plugged guide.

We'll just have to keep talking. Eventually something will happen.

Seems about right.

Wiyvern has a notorious record of not posting/lurking and getting replaced out. He was replaced out of our previous game, and from what I saw before I even joined the newbie queue, that was not the first time it happened. Just keep that in mind.

I'll certainly be keeping it in mind, yes. Either way, i'm sure we'd agree that the lurk is not uncharacteristic of Mr Wiyvern.

[Hank Spankems]

1.

Oh, Hank. Regardless of your alignment, I already like you.

2.

All I can say is, both Faria and Wiyvern acted as they were in our previous game. Faria will definitely respond to any comment about her,
especially if you mention that you read her as scum. She is a real new player and like she said, this is only her second game. So far I'm inclined
to believe that Faria is town but Wiyvern is null.

3.

The only other person I know is Trendall. He behaves a bit differently, in that he RVS last game but didn't RVS this game. Is this AI? I don't know
but I'm just putting it out there.

1.

The feeling is mutual, my good friend.

2.

Faria's behaviour, as you have noted, is identical to that of when she played town. I would expect some form of disparity, were a variable as significant as her alignment to change. I'm in agreeance with you on the lean toward town. This can and should, of course, be tested at some point in the future, but for now we have more neutral characters to define.

Wiyvern, for a start, remains absolute in their ambiguity.

3.

Funnily enough, Trendall seemed to stick out as I read back through the logs. Not that we've gotten all that far yet, but from what I read, I would have expected at least a little more activity from them. While the absence of a RV isn't incriminating in of itself, I would like a little explanation as to why they participated in RVS last game and not this, whilst also saying:

I do it because I get more information as to what people's playstyles are from how they react to it than I would by for some reason placing a vote on somebody that is no pressure and that they're expecting to happen anyway.

It seems like a fairly standard, well thought out practice on their behalf and I'd like to know if there are any extraordinary circumstances that might have lead to such a disparity between the two progressive games.

[Hank Spankems]

Once mentioned, I added in the spirit of clarity. IMO a flustered player would try to posit a excuse or distract. My fault happens to just be ignorance.

My dear Frank, I would love to hear more from you. Is there anyone that you like right now? Anyone that you find suspicious?

I too would like to hear more from our dearest Frank.

[Hank Spankems]

Just checking in, I’m still out of town until late tomorrow, I just wanted to do a quick read through, so I don’t feel super out of the loop. I’ll hopefully have more to say later.

I’m vibing with Hank a lot. I’m really afraid I could get pocketed there because of lines like “i like your thoughts on Mafia Philosophy” or whatever he said, so in addition to already lean towning, I just feel comfortable with Hank? Does this make sense? I almost half hope he’s scum because I’m giddy to see how he keeps this dynamic of ours going. I’ll happily jump in your pocket right now. This is one of those things where if you’re scum, I’m telling you exactly what you want to hear, and that’s specifically part of the play I am choosing to try to get an accurate read on you, and I think it’ll be really interesting to see what happens.

I've been tricked, backstabbed and quite possibly bamboozled! Now... whilst I've always been partial to these kinds of strategies, what exactly differentiates a scum read from a town read in this instance?

2.

All I can say is, both Faria and Wiyvern acted as they were in our previous game. Faria will definitely respond to any comment about her,
especially if you mention that you read her as scum. She is a real new player and like she said, this is only her second game. So far I'm inclined
to believe that Faria is town but Wiyvern is null.

2.

Faria's behaviour, as you have noted, is identical to that of when she played town. I would expect some form of disparity, were a variable as significant as her alignment to change. I'm in agreeance with you on the lean toward town. This can and should, of course, be tested at some point in the future, but for now we have more neutral characters to define.

It's literally my 2nd mafia game, so I don't know what

disparity

you expect from me or why do you even

expect

in the first place?

Well, that's exactly the point. As this is only your second game, it wouldn't be unusual for you to change your demeanour in accordance with your role. All I'm saying is that you seem towny, to me.

@Flavor, it doesn't work. You had been ignored, bro.

Rough life. I didn't even get noticed.

FeelsBadMan

I'm working with a Zurel/Hank town block for now. I could be wrong, but both to me seem like town.

Zurel seems natural, and generally, the conversation we had the other time seemed really natural, and the post they said about them just posting for the sake of talking I think comes from a town perspective.

Where have I heard that before?

At this point, Wiyvern and Frank are just MIA. In any other game I've played, this is lynchable in and of itself, though I'm not sure how you folk like to play this kind of thing out.

Not much else to add. Hopefully everyone is doing well and best of luck to your uncle, Salsabil.

[Hank Spankems]

In the words of Oscar Wilde, "A good friend will always stab you in the front."
I hope to be just that.

VOTE: Birefringence

[Hank Spankems]

hank kind of looks like a bus vote to me, so I'm starting there.

@Hank - Who is scum? You realize your vote looks like a bus vote, right

Naturally, yeah. There are some OOC reasons I voted, but once Taylor made her assertion I spent a while reading over the setups and trying to figure out why she was so certain. I ended up voting on probabilities and Taylor's conviction, more than a Mason setup. Either way, it worked out for town, but less so for me. As for who scum is, I'd level my bet on either Frank, Trendal or you. Namely Trendal, though, frank is just kinda quiet and it seems only wise to pay extra head to yourself.

[Hank Spankems]

Mason shares a private thread, but who is a mason talking to in that private thread??

Another mason.

and what are they talking about (because they have no active abilities)?

Masons know each other are town.

Taylor knew Bife was scum because Bife claimed Doctor, and Taylor was a Mason, and if you look at the setup, there's no possible way there can be a Doctor in a game with a mason.

Why try claiming such a risky role?

[Hank Spankems]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

Good to know I'm not the only one who missed the mason pair.

understood, and for my case, I was the one who voted Birefringence first and didn't change my vote cause she didn't/couldn't prove herself as a townie, so the bus vote point is not applicable for me.

I don't think it works

quite

like that, Salsa, but to be honest, I would never even think to question your towniness

[Hank Spankems]

hank kind of looks like a bus vote to me, so I'm starting there.

@Hank - Who is scum? You realize your vote looks like a bus vote, right

bus vote means?

Bus means someone decided to vote their own partner to make themselves look townie, but in this case, I think it's far more likely that scum is on the wagon, if only because there's more people on it than off of it that are possible.

understood, and for my case, I was the one who voted Birefringence first and didn't change my vote cause she didn't/couldn't prove herself as a townie, so the bus vote point is not applicable for me.

Well, I would say it's still applicable to you, but yeah, I'm not scum reading you at all, I think you're obv town, and Hank not having you in his POE means he's probably town as well.

Why does POE have to be the only wiki item I can't find?

[Hank Spankems]

Hank, if you're scum, you probably win this in lylo against me.

Ahhhh... if only. I appreciate the sentiment, though, I really do.

[Hank Spankems]

poe = process of elimination.

used when people have multiple possibilities of where the scum is and narrow it down into a small pool

Thank you for clarifying. It seems quite self explanatory upon reflection, so do excuse my trog brain.

[Hank Spankems]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

I read it like she forgot she was a mason, probably because Wiyvern was MIA, so she legit forgot, then realized it when you brought Wiyvern up.

What the hell. That's hilarious in its own right.

But this is making me suspicious of you, Flavor. An inexperienced player like me might not have noticed the possibility of Mason just from the exchange between me and Taylor. Wiyvern would have been a more viable NK, at least if I were scum.

I thought this too, but one could argue that they killed taylor because she basically led the killing charge against Bire.

[Hank Spankems]

And let's not forget, Trendal is an SE, too

[Hank Spankems]

And let's not forget, Trendal is an SE, too

Do I need to spell that out? I'm suspicious of you too, Hank. Your vote on Bire looked like bussing and it's possible that you already knew everything that you asked Flavor, id est, you're just an experienced player pretending to be newbie.

I still like you, regardless.

Maybe.. I was never all that great at spelling. Sometimes I forget people can be sus of me, too. As I said, I'm quite familiar with the genre (town of salem, etc.) but this is, legitimately, my first forum game. Much as with Flavor, I appreciate the sentiment, though.

Totally get where you're coming from with flavor, too. That said, I see Trendal as a likelier pick at this point

[Hank Spankems]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

I read it like she forgot she was a mason, probably because Wiyvern was MIA, so she legit forgot, then realized it when you brought Wiyvern up.

What the hell. That's hilarious in its own right.

But this is making me suspicious of you, Flavor. An inexperienced player like me might not have noticed the possibility of Mason just from the exchange between me and Taylor. Wiyvern would have been a more viable NK, at least if I were scum.

Sure, that's fair. I personally think it was out right there and open, and I'm half suspicious of Hank faking not seeing that, but at this point, scum is going to act like they didn't see it no matter what.

Scum might not have even known they were masons, and just thought they were townie who caught scum.

What makes you think I'd see it any quicker than the rest of us? I am but a lowly newb.

[Hank Spankems]

I still like you, regardless.

I like you too bb <3

[Hank Spankems]

Mason shares a private thread, but who is a mason talking to in that private thread??

Another mason.

and what are they talking about (because they have no active abilities)?

Masons know each other are town.

Taylor knew Bife was scum because Bife claimed Doctor, and Taylor was a Mason, and if you look at the setup, there's no possible way there can be a Doctor in a game with a mason.

Why try claiming such a risky role?

This question. It bothers me. Aren't all PRs risky to be claimed? There can be CCs or roles that know that the claimed role can't exist in the setup.

And isn't claiming a PR an effort on the part of scum to oust a PR that can be NKilled? Shouldn't this be obvious?

You're right, yeah. It seemed like an easily counter-able role and I didn't put in the time to think the others might be equally so. I guess the crux of the question is: Was the situation so dire for Bire that she felt that a risky claim was the only solution to get out of being voted?

And yes, I get claiming to oust a power role, but I'd hardly consider a 1 for 1 trade any good. Especially in the first day, might I add.

[Hank Spankems]

Would it help you if I stopped asking questions? That seems to be where a lot of these problems are coming from.

[Hank Spankems]

Would it help you if I stopped asking questions? That seems to be where a lot of these problems are coming from.

Oh, where is the fun in a game where no one is talking. And what if mafia if we don't ask questions?

Excellent. I'll use this as my N-word pass of stupid questions.

You're right, yeah. It seemed like an easily counter-able role and I didn't put in the time to think the others might be equally so. I guess the crux of the question is: Was the situation so dire for Bire that she felt that a risky claim was the only solution to get out of being voted?

And yes, I get claiming to oust a power role, but I'd hardly consider a 1 for 1 trade any good. Especially in the first day, might I add.

What could have a scum done in that situation? It's quite formulaic: you get to E-1, you claim, someone CC, you get lunched. In some cases, the PR refuse to CC because they don't want to oust themselves. But the claim usually happens before that, so whether or not you can talk your way out of it is another story.

The way I see it, it's a last resort. Better try ousting one of the PRs rather than just dying like that, when you obviously know you're going to die.

Naturally it's always best to take a PR with you, but her position seemed recoverable. Regardless of anything, I know you have your eyes on me and flavour, but what's your read on Trendal/Frank?

I still like you, regardless.

I like you too bb <3

But if it's between you and Flavor, as of the current weather, I will lunch you <3

Also @mod, are we getting replacement for Wiyvern? Or should we pretend that the slot doesn't exist?

You can lunch me anyday, baby; I love food.

frfr, fair enough on that. I'd probably lynch me too, if I wasn't so damn handsome.
I mean, just

look

at that pfp

I'm not going to ask why you think I'm town because I think it's because I'm nice to you. But here is an advice: Don't trust someone just because they're nice to you. I'm town this game, but I may not be the next time we meet, and it will be easy for me to pocket you. And pocket here means a scum who gains your absolute trust, you believe they're town and won't vote for them.

This.

[Hank Spankems]

frfr, fair enough on that. I'd probably lynch me too, if I wasn't so damn handsome.
I mean, just

look

at that pfp

Lucky for you, hun. Because I don't care for appearance <3

Then you will

adore

my personality. I'm not like the other Heisenberg's, I assure you.

I mean, sure it looks like I'm bussing, but that could very well be anyone who piled onto the vote. If I were scum, I wouldn't have even voted there. I would have just waited for flavour to hammer it, or something. If I'm scum, I can vote and draw attention to myself, orrr alternatively I can just not vote, blend in with a couple of the others and be in a much better position that where I am now. I might be inexperienced, but I'm not dumb. I know what leaves me better off. Please tell me if there's something more 'towny' I can do to convince you all.

What's your take on Frank, Flavor?

[Hank Spankems]

I'm prejudiced against Flavor, so even when I townread him, the possibility of flipping back to thinking he is scum is bigger than the rest of you. But if I put aside my prejudice and imagine him as any other SEs, his interaction with Bire on Day 1 makes me think he may be more likely town. In particular the flirty part that I pointed out. If it had worked out between the two, I was more likely to think they were scum together. But Bire obstinately ignored him.

As for Frank, I already mentioned why I town leaned him. But his is the weakest case, so for all we know, the best defense he has is to not make an appearance at all and the moment he is around I will see him as scum.

Don't worry Herr Heisenberg. We still have days, you still have the opportunity to make a case for yourself. And while you won't call yourself dumb, I won't hesitate to call myself gullible. So to any scums out there, good luck and Godspeed.

I'd say that prejudice is justifiable. You don't let your guard down around a tiger, even if someone says it's tame. Bire stonewalled him, but she also misattributed the situation to you, so that's adds to what you were saying.

And worry I shan't, my dearest Zurel, I thank you for reminding me how long these things last.

Hey look, it says gullible on the ceiling

I don’t remember Frank too much. I feel like scum is either in Frank or Trendall because they’re the 2 I’ve interacted with the least, so it’s almost like they’re hiding.

I'd be inclined to agree. It has been mentioned time and time again that this is a game where the least town stick out as opposed to the most scummy. Frank and Trendal fit the bill for that.

Why did Zurel's post about wiyvern confirm Birefringence? I couldn't make any sense of that at all.

This seems like an odd takeaway from everything that just occurred.

[Hank Spankems]

jeez why ya'll gotta start writing just before I post.

smh my head

[Hank Spankems]

VOTE: Trendal

seems we're in agreeance, then.

[Hank Spankems]

UNVOTE: Trendall

In retrospect, we have nothing to gain from pushing this too quickly. I have no problem pushing Trendall, but I think it would be beneficial to hear from Frank. As you say, Zurel, the best thing for him is to sit back out of the limelight and it seems that's exactly what he's doing.

[Hank Spankems]

SE Smackdown

[Hank Spankems]

Hank Hammerhand strikes again with another outstandingly ambiguous play. Is he scum?

Is he town?

Will this be the final blow needed to land a victory? Find out next time with the role reveal of the century.

I had a thing planned where I'd list quotes and do a reaction like usual, but external factors *cough* laziness *cough* have prevented me from doing as such.

Zurel, you snake, how dare you choose Frank over me. I don't care if you were baiting out a reaction! Come here, boy, if there's one thing you've baited, it's my belt!

VOTE: Trendall

hugs and kisses. See you in the afterlife.

[Hank Spankems]

I was wondering when I typed that, actually. Guess I'll know for the next time I threaten to assault you :shrug:

But in the meantime, you're off the hook.

[Hank Spankems]

Good day, everyone. You're looking well, Zurel and I absolutely adore that jacket, Flavor.

Onto business.

Wiyvern seems like an odd pick, all things considered. Can anyone find reasoning as to why Wiyvern was chosen over say, Zurel?

[Hank Spankems]

I'm by far the easiest to push at this point, so you shouldn't have to worry about Mr Flavor.

Frank, you seem to have quite an itchy trigger finger.

Now, onto business...

If I may, I will now attempt to abscond my name of any perceived wrongdoing.

Ok, so it seems the evidence adduced against me is a suspected bus vote on Bire. Before I go on, I'd like to raise the question of whether or not I had drawn any suspicion up until that point. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe I had. Now, to raise a question for Flavor: would you have hammered at a later point if I first had not? If the answer is yes, as you had earlier indicated, then the psychology behind my vote may become a little clearer. Whether I'm mafia or not, letting the vote pan out seems like the wisest thing, I'm sure you'd all agree. So why did I vote at all? In post 196 I indicated some OOC reasons that I had voted the way I did. Now, I'm unsure as to whether it falls under Rule 2 (outside influences) or if it's allowed through the 'prior knowledge' exception, but to butter both buns with a single knife, the reason I am currently playing this game of Mafia is due to Bire's influence. It's meta info, I know, but the personal value of the vote outweighed the potentially negative outcomes.

Now, for just a minute I humbly ask you to disregard your doubts of me and ask yourself this question: Is there anything else that Hank has done throughout the game that is indicative of him being scum? If so, please bring it to my attention, so that I can clear things up with you.

And now for the riposte. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Frank both conveniently vanished during the push on Trendal (when he still had an equal share of the suspicion) and conveniently reappeared to push me (just as the odds had tipped in his favour). Despite our collective predilection for rapid executions, I humbly ask that you do not rush this vote and allow Frank to explain his seemingly strategic absences.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[Hank Spankems]

Stop-

VOTE: Frank Lucas

Hammertime

[Hank Spankems]

Well fuck. This was... unexpected. We've officially landed the worst case scenario, everyone.

[Hank Spankems]

I'll be out of action for the next 8-9 hours or thereabout. I agree, though, we need to talk real time.

[Hank Spankems]

See you all soon, for the grand finale

[Hank Spankems]

Currently 7:30am from Aus. Ready to begin when you folk are.

I'm looking forward to finishing the game and seeing who did what why and when. In the meantime, I'm guessing we'll have to duke out, you and I

[Hank Spankems]

See that's the thing, I don't think it's Zurel, either.

I went through the Bire thing with you all and you seemed sufficiently pleased with the answer, so I'm unsure of why we're backtracking.

What Frank push? I thought we'd already agreed to go down the list of unfortunates. Only difference between our respective lists was eachother, might I add

Either one of us is lying, or the killer knows what they're doing. Occams Razor, my boy.

I have a series of quotes and questions lined up for you to answer, just let me get onto my desktop

[Hank Spankems]

It's my inquisitional avatar. Don't you weave that kind of implication in there.

Just got a breakup call from my bestie, will get to shit in a minute. Don't line me up as being sus or anything in the meantime.

[Hank Spankems]

Zurel wins this if he's scum and I'm happy to play that. We're just going to compete for his vote at this point.

You mentioned earlier that I win in lylo against you. Do you still see that as being the case?

Assuming that Zurel is innocent, do you find it a more likely conclusion that I've been bumbling through the game, perfectly embodying a new player, who knows exactly who to kill when... or would you say, from a neutral perspective, that the best maf player of 2019 is probably a more likely culprit?

It's a fair, if not divisive point to raise.

[Hank Spankems]

In post 381, You also seemed to place special attention on how to bus well, which wasn't previously a topic of conversation. Whilst you could tie this back in with me, what

does

a good bus actually look like? Assumedly, one that draws as little suspicion as possible and what better a way to do it than asking for town consent first. You earlier mentioned that you were a little annoyed you

didn't

get to hammer Bire... why is that? As far as I'm aware you don't have any prior interpersonal dynamic, so why did it matter to you who hammered her in the first place?

[Hank Spankems]

Zurel wins this if he's scum and I'm happy to play that. We're just going to compete for his vote at this point.

You mentioned earlier that I win in lylo against you. Do you still see that as being the case?

Assuming that Zurel is innocent, do you find it a more likely conclusion that I've been bumbling through the game, perfectly embodying a new player, who knows exactly who to kill when... or would you say, from a neutral perspective, that the best maf player of 2019 is probably a more likely culprit?

It's a fair, if not divisive point to raise.

No, I think there’s a few things you could have done differently. But at the same time, if you expected it to get down to the 3 of us, then you didn’t need to convince me you aren’t scum, you needed to convince Zurel.

I think you fully expected me to come in today knowing you are scum.

I think your case on why ScumYou wouldn’t hammer Bire is exactly a reason why you chose to hammer Bire. Like you said, I was going to come in and hammer her anyways, it would look good for you to make a vote like that to stop more discussion.

Newer players as scum are more than capable of seeing where the correct kills should be than town, so I did note some fairness within you, however, Frank was making similar posts at the same time as you.

I quoted yesterday about how I believed one of you guy were faking like you were newer than you were, especially considering I laid out exactly why the mason kills were the right ones.

Everyone had an equal chance of being scum this game, just because I am good at playing scum doesn’t mean I’m going to be scum.

The same works in reverse here. Difference is, it seems far less likely for you to even still be alive than the inverse. The whole reason burden of proficiency exists is because people make assumptions and of all the people to be threatened by you, it's going to be newbies.

Of course I expected you to call me scum. Similarly to my calling you out. This point is moot.

Your thoughts are convoluted to say the absolute least. You're getting into WIFOM territory there and it speaks to the fact that your case against me is built on a tower of cards.

Oh, and do I need to remind you that Taylor, someone who has veritable experience with you, called you out on acting strange. It seems like you started becoming less openly transparent after this moment, too, might I add.

I have no doubt that newbies can see the right kills, however ScumMe would be having it a lot easier in the top 3 without you alive. Both Trendal and Frank are far more beneficial to top 3 as scum than you are.

You did quote in yesterday, didn't you. Almost like this was a planned occasion. You misunderstand, though. The reason we, or particularly

I

was asking about the Wiyvern kill, is because you would have been my shot that night. To put it simply, I would have pushed Frank over Trendall, killed you and then gone from there. Whether or not it's optimal is irrelevant to the fact that the decision to kill Wiyvern is not one I would have made. You on the otherhand....

Sure, but equal opportunity =/= equal outcome. I have a 2/3 chance of being right, seeing that I can already account for myself being innocent.

In post 381, You also seemed to place special attention on how to bus well, which wasn't previously a topic of conversation. Whilst you could tie this back in with me, what

does

a good bus actually look like? Assumedly, one that draws as little suspicion as possible and what better a way to do it than asking for town consent first. You earlier mentioned that you were a little annoyed you

didn't

get to hammer Bire... why is that? As far as I'm aware you don't have any prior interpersonal dynamic, so why did it matter to you who hammered her in the first place?

Would I have looked better or worse if I hammered Brie?

The scum guide I wrote linked on my SIg breaks down a game where I bussed well.

It didn’t matter to me who hammered, I never said it did. All I said was yes, I would have hammered.

Taylor made it obvious they knew they were scum, and I saw that Taylor was town.

You also say I’ve been trying to get as little suspicion as possible, but I feel like I’ve been putting myself front and center.

It seems to me that you have nothing to lose from the act and everything to gain.

Yes, I've read your (still shamelessly plugged) scum guide several times over.

If it didn't matter who hammered, then why do I stand out as so very suspicious for hammering?

If it didn't matter who hammered, then why is your whole case on me built up around the hammering Bire?

You should know full well that visibility =/= suspiciousness. Playing as a strong, scumhunting persona has worked out quite well for you over this game, let's not forget.

And finally, if it didn't matter who hammered, then why are you annoyed by the fact that you didn't get to do it?

That is a good point. I completely planned on hammering, and was a little upset I didn’t get to.

[Hank Spankems]

post 43 also has an interesting twist to it. You speak in the past tense. If you are currently town, then it's still the only newbie game you

have

ever been scum in. Seems you might have made a Freudian Slip on this one.

[Hank Spankems]

Oh, and do I need to remind you that Taylor, someone who has veritable experience with you, called you out on acting strange. It seems like you started becoming less openly transparent after this moment, too, might I add.

She had played exactly 1 game with me, I replaced in during Night 1 of the game, and I vig shot her Night 3. I did play differently this game because I'm in a newbie SE mode.

The same works in reverse here. Difference is, it seems far less likely for you to even still be alive than the inverse

I had to live. I explained this early. If scum killed me, they would have lost the game because of the Mason pair having to be killed.

Last night was the first night I was able to be killed off without scum throwing the game. If you had killed me, you'd be in a Hank-Zurel-Salsa situation, where you would lose every single time. At least in this scenario, you have the "Flavor is good" play to possibly get Zurel to paranoia vote me.

You're getting into WIFOM territory there and it speaks to the fact that your case against me is built on a tower of cards.

Where is this happening? And WIFOM is just a thing in the game to analyze. I don't believe I am throwing WIFOM around, and if I am, it's in the manner of me making sure not to just give Zurel a free pass, but I'm going to state right now, I'm not gonna vote Zurel. If that clears things up for you.

I have no doubt that newbies can see the right kills, however ScumMe would be having it a lot easier in the top 3 without you alive. Both Trendal and Frank are far more beneficial to top 3 as scum than you are.

This right here is coming from a scum perspective by you. You didn't get to choose. I pushed Trendall first because they were the only one off the wagon, and you were actively engaging me, so I figured that the more I let you talk, if you were scum, it would come out. I also don't think you were fully trying to convince me you were town, you expected and knew you were going to have to face me in final 3.

I pushed Trendall, who then piggybacked onto me. I looked bad after that. I wasn't even on the Frank wagon. You were unable to fade me before this day phase because it would make you look bad if you pushed me to be faded when I pushed Trendall, and yesterday, Frank was town reading me, so you cut off discussion early.

If it didn't matter who hammered, then why do I stand out as so very suspicious for hammering?

you're hung up on this. it didn't matter who hammered, you could have picked either one. You took an action. That is a scum move. Scum are forced to make actions in the game, and that's how townies figure it out. They figure out what actions scum choose to make and why. You chose to hammer Bire because you knew I was going to come in and hammer, so the fact you are using that to such a degree makes me believe the reason you did that was so you could specifically use the defense of "why would I hammerbus here as scum if you were going to do it anyways".

post 43 also has an interesting twist to it. You speak in the past tense. If you are currently town, then it's still the only newbie game you

have

ever been scum in. Seems you might have made a Freudian Slip on this one.

I will speak of every game in the past as in the past. This game will not change the sentiment of that being the only newbie I rolled scum in.

You're right about living, actually. I hadn't calculated it properly, but after running things through, I see why you had to survive. Zurel is actually the kill I would take n2. You are good at the game, that's undeniable. I won't rely on a paranoia vote, though. I'll try my best to play this game of attrition... but needless to say I'm frankly outmatched.

I likely mistook your comments on a possible gambit for WIFOM, my bad.

...The whole point of this paragraph was to examine things through a scum lense. How else are you supposed to catch a killer? Is this what you're referring to when you say "If

were scum, it would come out"?

I was expecting this game to end with Frank.

The only discussion I cut too early was that of the first day's. I should have let Taylor go into her thoughts and reads more before her inevitable death. Like I said, I expected the game to end at Frank. The reason I was up so late last night was because I was shocked out of my wits that it hadn't. I like your theory, though.

I'm putting emphasis on it, because this is the only concrete item you have on me. I took an action because I was personally invested in the subject of the wagon. You're right, though. I chose to hammer Bire because you were going to do it and I couldn't have that. Anything else game related is secondary to that. As for your actual theory, why would I create a problem for an excuse when I could just avoid the problem in the first place? It's just risk for the sake of risk at that point.

The game itself might is in the past, yes, but if you're town here, the "only ever been scum once in newbie queue" should still be a present statement.

[Hank Spankems]

VOTE: Hank

Respectful duel, respectful game. I'll be happy for you if you end up winning this, but I don't see any reason to wait to cross vote each other.

Zurel will make the decision, and hammer when they are ready.

I very much enjoyed this game, yes. I think I'll continue playing on the site. I don't see us winning this, but you're right. We've each said our piece and it's time for judgment day.

I really, really hope Zurel is scum here. Would make the past few hours very comedic

VOTE: Mr Leaf

Either way, I hope to play with you all again <3

[Hank Spankems]

Fuck it's good to see you. Excuse the french, but the anticipation is killing me.

What were they questions you wanted to ask?

[Hank Spankems]

Hey now, don't look at me. I'm still here.

[Hank Spankems]

But don't let us hold you up. Get some rest if you need it.

[Hank Spankems]

It's a good thing I subsist solely on a diet of Fanta and Gözleme, or you might have scared me with the water threat.

Well, like I said, I would have already killed you. You've been leaning town of Flavor for a while now and I'd much rather take my chances with Faria. It's actually a really nice surprise to see you taking your time with this. Thank you.

[Hank Spankems]

You're right about living, actually. I hadn't calculated it properly, but after running things through, I see why you had to survive. Zurel is actually the kill I would take n2.

This is what I was implying here.

[Hank Spankems]

Didn't you already know my trust for Flavor was riddled with paranoia?

Why didn't you raise that point about me over Faria while you two were cross-examining each other?

And yes, of course it's riddled with paranoia. Your paranoia is 100% justified, but we'll get to that in due course.

[Hank Spankems]

Didn't you already know my trust for Flavor was riddled with paranoia?

Why didn't you raise that point about me over Faria while you two were cross-examining each other?

And yes, of course it's riddled with paranoia. Your paranoia is 100% justified, but we'll get to that in due course.

What do you mean in due course?

Once you vote ofc.

[Hank Spankems]

Speaking of, what's got you hung up? Are there are any other questions you have?

[Hank Spankems]

Sounds kinky. Don't neglect me for too long, though.

Seems like Flavor is back, anyway.

[Hank Spankems]

No, I'm Queen Victoria of England. You can be Mary Queen of Scots.

[Hank Spankems]

And yet she voted you for wagoning trendal

[Hank Spankems]

I'm not done asking questions, children. Don't presume I have made up my mind.

naturally. I want to enjoy this.

[Hank Spankems]

And yet she voted you for wagoning trendal

Yeah, but that makes sense. Trendall and I were in a 1v1, that doesn’t make me scum.

I'm not at all saying that makes you scum, I already know that part. Dearest Salsa was leaning scum on you over anything that I had done. Justified or not, I would have capitalised on it.

[Hank Spankems]

Ugh, the two of you are such pests. I still like you two, but what pests!

Brb in 10 mins.

Don't get hit by a car

That would be quite the anticlimax.

[Hank Spankems]

I would have been able to capitalize it as well.

Bringing this final 3 to the game automatically would bring in forth Zurel’s comment on fading you over me which brings extra paranoia to Zurel slot. While I can’t say for sure that I wouldn’t have made that Salsa slot, I know you killed Salsa specifically for some reason, and it looks like you have stuff ready to debate against me completely.

I am reacting to everything, and you came in here completely ready to push me.

That is why you are scum here, and hopefully will be your downfall.

I think you were having a fun time and wanted this 3 in the game anyways.

Salsa is also much more unpredictable and throws her vote around, I wasn’t thinking about that until now, but that could be another reason you killed Salsa.

Look, I'm flattered that you think I prepared this part, I really am. Perhaps they'll make a barrister of me yet.

Believe it or not, I'm reacting too. Difference is, I still have my footing whilst you're slowly devolving into emotional appeals and accusations without substance.

I mean, you've given me the perfect example here:

"This is why you are scum and hopefully will be your downfall"... erm... excuse me? The reason I'm supposedly scum is because I told you that Faria was pushing you earlier? Because you can't explain it away? I understand your desparation, but surely you could give me something, *anything* more than that.

In all seriousness, though, I am having fun. I appreciate you both for being so likeable and entertaining.

No, no, no. You've got this argument all wrong. The point still stands as to why Salsa lives: Zurel was leaning town on you, Faria was leaning scum on you. Take a wild guess at which one I'm going to choose.

[Hank Spankems]

Here is a question for you, Hank.

The reason we, or particularly I was asking about the Wiyvern kill, is because you would have been my shot that night. To put it simply, I would have pushed Frank over Trendall, killed you and then gone from there. Whether or not it's optimal is irrelevant to the fact that the decision to kill Wiyvern is not one I would have made.

What Frank push? I thought we'd already agreed to go down the list of unfortunates. Only difference between our respective lists was eachother, might I add

I feel like these two are a contradiction.

The first statement is both a hypothetical and also referring to a different day than the other.

My point in the second is to highlight that I didn't push Frank in any way other than what we had originally planned.

[Hank Spankems]

It was quite strange for me at least, considering I and Flavor were the ones making more decision on whom to kill. So for me those are kinda moot point, because you had always been careful following our decisions, and maybe mine particularly.

Do not mistake agreeance with compliance. I agreed with the kills we were making.

[Hank Spankems]

Also, you made a mistake saying you were surprised Wiyvern was killed and why not, say, Zurel. But today you told Flavor you would have killed him instead of Wiyvern. Before backtracking to saying actually you would have killed me.

Was this a scumslip?

My obvious answer will be no, it was not.

I'm just generally surprised (at least I was) that someone so inactive would be killed off in place of A. an active conf. town or B. a highly experienced player. I genuinely fucked up with my calculations, though.

I hadn't actually thought through the process of what killing either of you would look like, hence the discrepancy now (because I'm having to consider it)

[Hank Spankems]

Sucks to be you.

I might have to argue, but you have to decide.

[Hank Spankems]

So let's mix it up. I have a question for you, Zurel

[Hank Spankems]

Have you written down any votes and decided not to send them? How close have you come to deciding, so far?

[Hank Spankems]

That's terrifyingly close to 100%

[Hank Spankems]

hahahahaha, no, I most enjoy your questions.

[Hank Spankems]

Care for some small talk while we wait?

[Hank Spankems]

So what go you into this game, anyway? Why Forum Mafia over all of the other options?

[Hank Spankems]

So what go you into this game, anyway? Why Forum Mafia over all of the other options?

Because I used to play Forum Mafia elsewhere a long time ago. I think it was my ex who introduced me to it. I didn't play much but it was fun enough.

Right now though, it's just plain suffering.

Ah, so you were previously acquainted.

Suffering can be fun under the right circumstances, though something tells me you're really struggling with this decision (Or lack thereof).

[Hank Spankems]

You can call it flirting if you want.

Oh sweetie, if I was flirting with you, you'd know.

No comments from you, Hank

Also, look at this post, Zurel.

Not only did she not realize it was me trying to flirt, she also made a comment towards Hank.

Read the context. She got the names confused similarly to how she got the flirting confused.

[Hank Spankems]

In other news, calling all of my posts scummy in hindsight is just... could you be any more obvious??

[Hank Spankems]

You can call it flirting if you want.

Oh sweetie, if I was flirting with you, you'd know.

No comments from you, Hank

Also, look at this post, Zurel.

Not only did she not realize it was me trying to flirt, she also made a comment towards Hank.

Read the context. She got the names confused similarly to how she got the flirting confused.

I wonder why you know that

All I know is pain.

[Hank Spankems]

It was quite strange for me at least, considering I and Flavor were the ones making more decision on whom to kill. So for me those are kinda moot point, because you had always been careful following our decisions, and maybe mine particularly.

Do not mistake agreeance with compliance. I agreed with the kills we were making.

Doesn't this also mean you were compliant?

uhhhh no, it's because I agreed with you.

Bringing Frank into Final 3 would have been the best play for me if I were scum, especially considering he said he town read me.

Hank just made sure to end the day before it came out.

I wouldn't have hammered Frank at the end of the day until we had more discussion. Maybe I would have, I'm not sure what or what I wouldn't have done if I showed up and saw him at E-1.

I didn't expect that day to end that fast.

Like I said, I expected that to be game set and match.

[Hank Spankems]

I don't know why Bire made the decisions that she did, but neither of us would have encouraged her to claim doc. Let's not be insulting here. It was likely a case of Flavor being away due to differing timezones and then she had already committed by the time he reached her.

[Hank Spankems]

I don't know why Bire made the decisions that she did, but neither of us would have encouraged her to claim doc. Let's not be insulting here. It was likely a case of Flavor being away due to differing timezones and then she had already committed by the time he reached her.

[Hank Spankems]

It doesn't necessarily matter to me what the context was regarding you, moreso the fact she knew to mention you.

I'm also coming from a biased position because I know Hank is scum, so I might be reaching a little and not realizing it.

This is yet another non-existent point.

[Hank Spankems]

I don't know why Bire made the decisions that she did, but neither of us would have encouraged her to claim doc. Let's not be insulting here. It was likely a case of Flavor being away due to differing timezones and then she had already committed by the time he reached her.

You were not there for a long time, either Hank. When Bire got to L-1, you were not there and you were not there when I put my vote and said I wanted to pressure her.

my bad, my bad. It could have been the either of us. I got there on the tail end of it too, yeah.

[Hank Spankems]

Oh shit

[Hank Spankems]

Wrong choice, my friend.

[Hank Spankems]

Masterchef: Rage and Fury

[Hank Spankems]

quick, scuttle the vote!!

[Hank Spankems]

I mean, as I said. Your paranoia is justified

[Hank Spankems]

Good game, everyone. Quite the finale.

[Hank Spankems]

Never heard that saying before, but I can't say I disagree

[Hank Spankems]

What turned it over for you, Zurel?

[Hank Spankems]

Yeah, I can see that coming together nicely for you, Flavor. I wanted to take a similar approach, but I did get impatient

[Hank Spankems]

You both are equally compelling debaters.

For a last and one final time... I appreciate the sentiment.
and I mean that.

Yeah, I can see that coming together nicely for you, Flavor. I wanted to take a similar approach, but I did get impatient

I was trying to actively poke at you a little bit to get your posts to look a little more chaotic. I did the same thing to Trendall.

It worked. I could actively see myself doing it, too, which annoys me more now. Either way, congratulations.

The paranoia people have against me when I'm town frustrates me, so my town game looks scummier. But the Flavor Fever is real.

I can imagine this gets

very

annoying

I should ask to be replaced out of my current game. I am so tired.

As soon as your vote came a wave of exhaustion hit me, too. I think a well earned break is in order.

[Hank Spankems]

Ok, Im back. I had to take a walk.

[Hank Spankems]

Damn, Zurel, look at you go. Moving up in the world already!

[Hank Spankems]

:') god bless

Now all I have to do is become witty

[Hank Spankems]

I prepared this earlier but the thread kept moving without me:

That was incredibly close, yes. I can't say I don't feel a great deal of satisfaction for holding the line for that long, but I really really wish I had pushed harder with that line. It's actually what sold you as scum to me when I was considering Zurel as a candidate. You seemed to have an answer for everything, Flavor and I almost gave up at one point. I knew I was getting too defensive toward the end and I wish it had occurred to me to bring that back up. Welp, at least I'll know for next time. I also really appreciate the help you gave throughout the game and I look forward to actually being the bad guy in future.

In any regard, I'm glad to have made some new friends. Keep an eye out for a message in future.

[Hank Spankems]

Guess I can take these laser eyes off now

[Hank Spankems]

Gonna grab some dinner, play some chess and have a bath. Good morning, good evening and good night.