Newbie 2039 | Endgame

[Zurel]

Hello everyone.

VOTE: wiyvern

Here is to hoping you will be active this game.

[Zurel]

Hello everyone
Hi wiyvern, Zurel and Trendall.... we meet again

Hello Salsabil. We may well be playing all the five newbie games together, lol.

Say, is it okay if I call you Faria? Salsabil is a tad long but I don't want to call you Salsa.

[Zurel]

Hey, everybody.

I know one of the SE’s, and that is all. I guess I’ll do the stereotypical “what is your experience with Mafia?” Post.

Not much. I used to play many years ago but even then, I was not the most enthusiastic player. I think I couldn't have more than a total of 15 games under my belt.

My game before this was my first game in a long time.

[Zurel]

VOTE: frank
only scum dont have avatars

Hah, what do you know? Now Frank has gotten himself an avatar.

[Zurel]

VOTE: frank
only scum dont have avatars

Hah, what do you know? Now Frank has gotten himself an avatar.

what do you make of him adding an avatar?

Something noteworthy in an otherwise (so far) eventless game. Since we like to overthink stuffs during RVS, could be a newbie scum getting flustered at being called one for apparently no good reason.

[Zurel]

Something noteworthy in an otherwise (so far) eventless game. Since we like to overthink stuffs during RVS, could be a newbie scum getting flustered at being called one for apparently no good reason.

im more inclined to give you scumpoints for a)shading something that is pretty clearly NAI (being new means by default you have no avatar, adding one is pretty standard and if anything cooperative rather than flustered), and b)overexplaining.

I didn't have an avatar the whole last game but it never crossed my mind that not having one was being uncooperative, so I was just saying it as I viewed it.

But fair enough. It was indeed a mountain made out of a molehill.

[Zurel]

Since we like to overthink stuffs during RVS, could be a newbie scum getting flustered at being called one for apparently no good reason.

Why did this come across as Frank being flustered to you?

I didn't say I thought he was flustered. I just said he

could

be flustered.

[Zurel]

I didn't say I thought he was flustered. I just said he

could

be flustered.

But there was clearly some thought process that led you believe that this could be scum-motivated behaviour.

It wasn't a scum-related behaviour. It was obviously NAI. But since you're asking what my flitting thought was, it probably went along this line: 90% probability this was an innocent act; 10% probability it was a newbie scum who realised he stood out and didn't want to stand out. Should I mention this? Eh, why not. Nothing has happened so far.

Please don't ask how I came up with those percentage. I don't know.

[Zurel]

Can you explain what you mean here?

i mean that flavor leaf won the award for best scum player last year, so it would be bad if flavor leaf rolled scum in most newbie games.

One of my only losses in 2019 as scum was in a newbie game. The only newbie game I had ever been scum in too.

You replaced another player in that newbie game, like halfway through. Was that the reason or one of the reasons you lost?

[Zurel]

I've played like 20+ town games in newbies, which is weird because everywhere else on site I used roll scum like constantly for some reason.

The Merciful God took pity on the newbies and decided that they were not ready to handle you.

The question is, did God take pity on these newbies here?

[Zurel]

In other news, this phase of the game doesn't seem all that likely to produce much in the way of leads.

We'll just have to keep talking. Eventually something will happen.

Ms Faria is posting without relent and Wivern seems to have a more interesting game to spend his attentions on for the moment. I'll have to do some more reading, but as it stands, nothing stands out as uncharacteristic or unexplainable.

Wiyvern has a notorious record of not posting/lurking and getting replaced out. He was replaced out of our previous game, and from what I saw before I even joined the newbie queue, that was not the first time it happened. Just keep that in mind.

[Zurel]

@Mod

Birefringence voted Salsabil, not Flavor.

noted.

[Zurel]

I'm a they and not a he

Oh, sorry. I'll try to be more careful.

[Zurel]

sorry, don't understand... what do you mean?

Quite simply, my dear Salsabil, you are unapologetically vocal; you post a lot. Which is fine, of course, don't get me wrong. I'm just highlighting the fact that you seem to separate your responses into individual replies as opposed to collating them all into a single post.

I guess I lost like two posts. It was me explaining why I started to lean town on Hank, amongst some other thoughts of my Mafia Philosophy. I'll retype it up later, I guess. =/ Shame, I'll likely be away today and tomorrow.

Well, I appreciate the sentiment.

You know what you're talking about, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Mafia and their philosophical machinations, once you're back. In the meantime I'll see what I can glean from your

shamelessly

plugged guide.

We'll just have to keep talking. Eventually something will happen.

Seems about right.

Wiyvern has a notorious record of not posting/lurking and getting replaced out. He was replaced out of our previous game, and from what I saw before I even joined the newbie queue, that was not the first time it happened. Just keep that in mind.

I'll certainly be keeping it in mind, yes. Either way, i'm sure we'd agree that the lurk is not uncharacteristic of Mr Wiyvern.

Oh, Hank. Regardless of your alignment, I already like you.

All I can say is, both Faria and Wiyvern acted as they were in our previous game. Faria will definitely respond to any comment about her, especially if you mention that you read her as scum. She is a real new player and like she said, this is only her second game. So far I'm inclined to believe that Faria is town but Wiyvern is null.

Another person I'm leaning town is Taylor because of the way she questioned me about the avatar thing. Bire questioned me too, but it was a bit different so I'm folding my view on her for now.

The only other person I know is Trendall. He behaves a bit differently, in that he RVS last game but didn't RVS this game. Is this AI? I don't know but I'm just putting it out there.

[Zurel]

Oh, Hank. Regardless of your alignment, I already like you.

All I can say is, both Faria and Wiyvern acted as they were in our previous game. Faria will definitely respond to any comment about her, especially if you mention that you read her as scum. She is a real new player and like she said, this is only her second game. So far I'm inclined to believe that Faria is town but Wiyvern is null.

Were both Town last game? Is there anything in particular that leads you to believe Faria is Town and Wiyvern is null if you feel both are acting the same way as you've seen before?

All of us (Wiyvern, Faria, Trendall, and me) were town. It's just easier to read someone who posts compared to someone who doesn't. So far, Faria doesn't look like she has a scumbuddy who is telling her what to say/do. Thus, even though they both act the same as in our previous game, I know so little about Wiyvern so I can't say I believe they're also town.

I can't say I love the name Bire, but I also can't think off the top of my head of a better way to shorten Birefringence that I hate less so I guess I'll put up with it.

If you have an idea, do let me know. Birefringence is a clever name but it's a handful to spell.

[Zurel]

So far, Faria doesn't look like she has a scumbuddy who is telling her what to say/do.

Unless, of course, if her scumbuddy is also a newbie like her. In which case, how unfortunate for both.

[Zurel]

3.

Funnily enough, Trendall seemed to stick out as I read back through the logs. Not that we've gotten all that far yet, but from what I read, I would have expected at least a little more activity from them. While the absence of a RV isn't incriminating in of itself, I would like a little explanation as to why they participated in RVS last game and not this, whilst also saying:

I do it because I get more information as to what people's playstyles are from how they react to it than I would by for some reason placing a vote on somebody that is no pressure and that they're expecting to happen anyway.

It seems like a fairly standard, well thought out practice on their behalf and I'd like to know if there are any extraordinary circumstances that might have lead to such a disparity between the two progressive games.

I looked through some of his other games (I had free time, don't look at me like that) and it seems that not putting RV is his thing, regardless of his alignment. If anything, what he did last game was out of his normal behaviour.

But ask him, anyway. It doesn't hurt to hear more from someone.

[Zurel]

Hmmm... Zurel mentions in 62 that you did RVS last game. Why the change?

Last game I did exactly the same as this game, which is came into the thread and said hello and didn't place a random vote. Someone voted for me so I voted them back, and then I started voting for someone I had a reason to be voting for. I didn't 'do RVS'.

I did the same thing in Newbies 977, 989, 1024, 1053, 1066, 1084, 1793, 1893, and 2035. Been doing it for ten years. So asking me 'why the change' is not right because nothing changed, and even if it did, so what, why would that help you find my alignment? You reckon my

strategy

is to place a random vote as town but not place one as mafia or something?

VOTE: Birefringence

Ah, yes. Back then you voted Titus only after she voted you. I didn't realise it because it happened very early and I mistook it as RVS instead of OMGUS. I'm guilty of misinformation!

[Zurel]

But yeah, is not RVS-ing is alignment indication? I never RVS-ed back in the old days but when I came here, I noticed that if you don't RVS, someone is bound to ask why you don't RVS.

I mean, someone how doesn't put a random vote may vote later, so it doesn't mean they are against elimination. What am I missing?

[Zurel]

It's tricky because Zurel has an avatar this game and didn't have one last game, so I like, read their posts in a different tone of voice or something like that.

I didn't realise how important an avatar was until I saw TheDuke in the queue and I can't bleeding remember how he played last game.

But yeah, I was a donkey last game, so...

I always feel like voting for players who ask questions they already know the answer to. You know how last game AuroraDash asked 'Salsabill, why do you write in green, is it just to make it look nice?' as if there were any other possible answer to that question, and then turned out to be mafia.

I did say I was folding my view on Birefringence. Both she and Taylor asked me about my avatar statement, but the reason I started to lean town on Taylor was because she asked one question, found it fine (I guess), and let it be. While Birefringence went another step and I wanted to see if she wanted to persist and make a big deal out of it.

Not yet enough to make me think her scum, though.

[Zurel]

Bice straight up called me out for not answering something, and I liked that a lot. I don’t even know if I mean that in an alignment way. She just makes me smile, I don’t know if I would call it a town read or not, but yeah.

You can call it flirting if you want.

2.

All I can say is, both Faria and Wiyvern acted as they were in our previous game. Faria will definitely respond to any comment about her,
especially if you mention that you read her as scum. She is a real new player and like she said, this is only her second game. So far I'm inclined
to believe that Faria is town but Wiyvern is null.

2.

Faria's behaviour, as you have noted, is identical to that of when she played town. I would expect some form of disparity, were a variable as significant as her alignment to change. I'm in agreeance with you on the lean toward town. This can and should, of course, be tested at some point in the future, but for now we have more neutral characters to define.

It's literally my 2nd mafia game, so I don't know what

disparity

you expect from me or why do you even

expect

in the first place?

Faria, just for clarity's sake, do you think that Hank is reading you as scum right now?

[Zurel]

You can call it flirting if you want.

I’m still working my way up to that, I haven’t built up the confidence quite yet.

You would flirt your way to winning, if you could, wouldn't you?

[Zurel]

You can call it flirting if you want.

I’m still working my way up to that, I haven’t built up the confidence quite yet.

You would flirt your way to winning, if you could, wouldn't you?

What do you mean, if I could? That’s exactly what I’m doing now

I’m hoping to flirt so well, the scum team just goes “he’s so charming, we should tell him we’re scum. I think he’d like that.”

If that ever happens, tell me. I would like to proselytise at your altar.

[Zurel]

You can call it flirting if you want.

Oh sweetie, if I was flirting with you, you'd know.

Lol, why are quoting me as if I was the one trying to flirt with you?

@Flavor, it doesn't work. You had been ignored, bro.

[Zurel]

Didn't expect to see Taylor, of all people, needing prod.

This has been one slow game. And I'm still trying to relearn mafia, so I'm not good enough to try scumhunt on my own.

[Zurel]

@

Birefringence

, do you think every question that other players ask you, no matter how insignificant you think it is, should be answered? Or do you think it's fine to ignore some questions?

[Zurel]

@

Birefringence

, do you think every question that other players ask you, no matter how insignificant you think it is, should be answered? Or do you think it's fine to ignore some questions?

For me, personally, I will try to answer everything. I can't say that I won't occasionally forget, or miss things, or answer a question directed at one person and assume that a similar question that is pending will be answered concurrently. But just because a question doesn't seem important to me doesn't mean it isn't important in some way to the other person, so I will give the benefit of the doubt even if I don't understand the reasoning for asking. As long as I don't feel the question is in obviously bad faith, I'll do my best to answer. In a lot of cases, the substance of the answer isn't important anyway... the person may be more interested in tone or how I respond to pressure, or just how I respond to something completely unexpected and random. People have very different approaches to generating reads, and I try not to prejudice myself against certain ways of playing just because it might not make sense to me, so I usually try to be as universally helpful as I can.

Could I presume that you just missed this question?

Spoiler:

What is anyone's reason for voting anyone in this stage?

My vote wasn't random. I don't think Taylor's was either. I'm not saying that either of us had particularly good reasons for voting, but there were reasons.

yeah, voting someone for triple posting is not a

particularly good reason

but

a reason!

so, what are your actual reasons to vote me?

[Zurel]

I... think I may have misinterpreted something in this sequence and am just going to pretend this never happened

[Zurel]

Flavor is probably not scum this game. I mean, if he was, would he have let this many days pass without doing anything?

Scums are probably among the less active slots.

I'm just talking for the sake of talking, right now.

[Zurel]

I have some bad news One of my maternal uncles had brain stroke, he is in life support now and one of my paternal aunts also in ICU due to covid please keep them in your prayers If anything goes south, I may not be able to post tomorrow, I'll let mod know the updates. Sorry for the inconvenience

Don't worry about inconveniencing us. This is just a game and your family is more important. Take care.

[Zurel]

I don't remember anything anyone else has done besides like some NAI things like just chatting.

Salsa for me is one of the people I remember stuff from, but none of it is really AI, unless she's trying to pocket me by trying to charm me. A counter charm. She laughs a lot at my posts, and she talked about my avatar, but that's me jumping to that as a possibility moreso than me think that's actually happening, so I guess I could see Salsa as town too.

You're saying that Hank and Faria might well be trying to pocket you. It could work the other way, too.

is this 9p?

Where is Trendall? I wonder if to Trendall this question is too obvious, it counts as scummy.

[Zurel]

Taylor
Bife
Frank Lucas
Wiveryn
Trendall

I'm fine with the top 2, so I'm gonna look into the other 3 to pressure.

this doesnt feel like town!you

It's obvious that Taylor wouldn't trust Flavor as far as she could throw him. But yeah, why do you feel this if off, Taylor?

[Zurel]

im largely a tone reader, and flavor's tone feels different than previously. ive only seen town flavor though, so not sure that it makes flavor scum.

Then how about other people's tones? What do you make of them so far? Since this is obviously not a game of only you and Flavor.

[Zurel]

Don't have a lot of time right now, but I think I'm at L-1. Will claim and

post some other thoughts/reads when I get home

.

Geez, not used to people being so keen to lolhammer. Fine, I'm the doctor.

More later

.

Either Bire's house is very far or the promised "more" isn't going to happen. And as the more active participant in an admittedly very slow game, this is quite strange.

VOTE: Birefringence

Until we're clear there is no CC, I want to keep the pressure on her. I believe this is

E-2

.

[Zurel]

@Mod, can you check that the VC is accurate? I think Faria is still voting for me.

Don't have a lot of time right now, but I think I'm at L-1. Will claim and post some other thoughts/reads when I get home.

This is kinda townie because they're waiting on L-1 when someone could just hammer, but it could just be them waiting to talk to a scum partner. I usually would have hammered right here if it wasn't a newbie game.

I don't understand why that seems townie to you. Can you please explain?

Also Flavor, happy birthday.

[Zurel]

Don't have a lot of time right now, but I think I'm at L-1. Will claim and

post some other thoughts/reads when I get home

.

Geez, not used to people being so keen to lolhammer. Fine, I'm the doctor.

More later

.

Either Bire's house is very far or the promised "more" isn't going to happen. And as the more active participant in an admittedly very slow game, this is quite strange.

Not that my personal life is

any

of your business, but I was phone posting during breaks at work. Some days I will be working from home and you may see a bit more of me, but today was not one of those days. I worked for about six more hours after my last post before I left for home. As much as I love you all, I have a life outside of mafia, and there are many other things that I need to attend to in my day. So. I'm sorry that you had to wait. But also there are seven other people in this thread that you also could have talked to if you desperately needed conversation in these past few hours.

Oh my, no need to raise your hackles. Not that I don't want to hear from other people, but Taylor downright ignored me (she probably just doesn't like me so this I consider as NAI) and the only other person I posed question to, which is Flavor, was not around. I'm just doing what I can within my limited capability and knowledge.

[Zurel]

Oh, it's all right, Taylor

The thing is, this game, to me almost everyone feels null with slight town lean here and there. And with Bire, my vote is there because a case of the person who is least town out of all, instead of the most scummy out of all. If we decide against voting Bire because of her claim, I really don't know whom should I vote instead.

[Zurel]

@Mod

you missed Salsabil's vote on Bire, again. It has been there since the dawn of time and never removed.

Ah. The unvote on #107 made my counting skills dissipate.

[Zurel]

well the good news is theres no rush. we have over four days left. and i think theres no question that we dont eliminate the claimed doctor. its a claim that if true, is confirmed tomorrow.

Flavor doesn't seem to care about eliminating the town doctor, though. I think I can kind of see why, but I would like to hear the possible reasoning from the SEs (for education purpose).

[Zurel]

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

[Zurel]

Eh, what did you just realise?

[Zurel]

That's

E-1

, people.

[Zurel]

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

My stupid brain doesn't quite follow why that made you absolutely sure that Bire is scum. But I'm down with it.

I already voted though, so we have to wait for someone else to hammer.

[Zurel]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

[Zurel]

Firstly, why does it have to be Taylor?

Secondly, mason? Now I'm very confused.

[Zurel]

The distinction between an SE and a noob is like the sky and the earth. I don't understand anything.

[Zurel]

The distinction between an SE and a noob is like the sky and the earth. I don't understand anything.

to be fair, there used to be an additional slot in newbies called the IC alongside SE's, the teaching position, and I did that almost constantly. I like that it's just SE now, though. I can play around a bit more and show my own Mafia Philosophy, in conjunction with site meta, of course.

Zurel would have to be feigning some major confusion if they are scum, and off the bat, I don't think that's what's happening.

In my minimal experience of playing mafia, I have constantly rolled vanilla. So I don't have much knowledge about roles and mechanics and whatnot. (Also, I'm not bright but let's ignore that)

[Zurel]

Mason shares a private thread, but who is a mason talking to in that private thread??

Another mason.

[Zurel]

hank kind of looks like a bus vote to me, so I'm starting there.

@Hank - Who is scum? You realize your vote looks like a bus vote, right

bus vote means?

When a scum votes another scum in order to get town credential.

[Zurel]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

[Zurel]

*could not be doctor

[Zurel]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

I read it like she forgot she was a mason, probably because Wiyvern was MIA, so she legit forgot, then realized it when you brought Wiyvern up.

What the hell. That's hilarious in its own right.

But this is making me suspicious of you, Flavor. An inexperienced player like me might not have noticed the possibility of Mason just from the exchange between me and Taylor. Wiyvern would have been a more viable NK, at least if I were scum.

[Zurel]

And let's not forget, Trendal is an SE, too

Do I need to spell that out? I'm suspicious of you too, Hank. Your vote on Bire looked like bussing and it's possible that you already knew everything that you asked Flavor, id est, you're just an experienced player pretending to be newbie.

I still like you, regardless.

[Zurel]

And I really, really, really don't want my fear of that Don Corleone over there to cloud my judgement. But I think my tiny brain can't cope.

[Zurel]

Mason shares a private thread, but who is a mason talking to in that private thread??

Another mason.

and what are they talking about (because they have no active abilities)?

Masons know each other are town.

Taylor knew Bife was scum because Bife claimed Doctor, and Taylor was a Mason, and if you look at the setup, there's no possible way there can be a Doctor in a game with a mason.

Why try claiming such a risky role?

This question. It bothers me. Aren't all PRs risky to be claimed? There can be CCs or roles that know that the claimed role can't exist in the setup.

And isn't claiming a PR an effort on the part of scum to oust a PR that can be NKilled? Shouldn't this be obvious?

[Zurel]

I still like you, regardless.

I like you too bb <3

But if it's between you and Flavor, as of the current weather, I will lunch you <3

Also @mod, are we getting replacement for Wiyvern? Or should we pretend that the slot doesn't exist?

[Zurel]

I think no need to answer my #171, Taylor. My stupid brain had caught up.

I asked this question to Tayl0r Swift but she didn't get the chance to answer me, so I want to know from you:

We do have the wild card called Wiyvern, though. I don't know when they will make a reappearance, if ever.

this post proves that bire is scum.

sorry I don’t understand, how do you come up with this idea?

When this happened, I thought it was because Wiyvern could be doctor and scums could use inactive players with possible PR as excuse there was no CC. But Taylor turns out to be Mason. So screw my dumb brain, she already knew Bire was scum because in Mason setup, there could not be Masons. So she had only been acting so scums didn't catch her as having PR and NKilled her.

I read it like she forgot she was a mason, probably because Wiyvern was MIA, so she legit forgot, then realized it when you brought Wiyvern up.

(If we really think that Tayl0r forgot about her role) Is there any strong possibility that Wiyvern is the other mason?

The answer is yes.

[Zurel]

Also

@mod

, are we getting replacement for Wiyvern? Or should we pretend that the slot doesn't exist?

In case

mod

doesn't see.

[Zurel]

@Faria, do you have any reads to offer? Whom are you most suspicious of (willing to vote today)?

Also, unrelated. How are your aunt and uncle?

[Zurel]

btw, not game-related... my uncle passed away yesterday aunt is doing okay, she got released from the hospital but very weak still

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully your aunt would get better.

[Zurel]

You're right, yeah. It seemed like an easily counter-able role and I didn't put in the time to think the others might be equally so. I guess the crux of the question is: Was the situation so dire for Bire that she felt that a risky claim was the only solution to get out of being voted?

And yes, I get claiming to oust a power role, but I'd hardly consider a 1 for 1 trade any good. Especially in the first day, might I add.

What could have a scum done in that situation? It's quite formulaic: you get to E-1, you claim, someone CC, you get lunched. In some cases, the PR refuse to CC because they don't want to oust themselves. But the claim usually happens before that, so whether or not you can talk your way out of it is another story.

The way I see it, it's a last resort. Better try ousting one of the PRs rather than just dying like that, when you obviously know you're going to die.

[Zurel]

Would it help you if I stopped asking questions? That seems to be where a lot of these problems are coming from.

Oh, where is the fun in a game where no one is talking. And what if mafia if we don't ask questions?

[Zurel]

@Faria, do you have any reads to offer? Whom are you most suspicious of (willing to vote today)?

Yes, I have but not a very strong read yet. I have my suspicions on:
Trendall: the way he/she/they is/are acting in this game is very different from the previous one (the one I was there)
Flavor Leaf: like, he/she/they is/are the scum master and I also can't read him/her/them a town yet
Hank Spankems: Neutral for now, the bus vote discussions between you, Flavor and Hank are not clear to me yet, have to read those posts again
Frank Lucas: I mean I even forgot what he posted so far, not sure about him at all!
wiyvern: if they are not mason, then the inactiveness means only lurking to me, so either mason|scum

My dear, that's basically everyone except yourself, Taylor and Bire (because they are dead), and me.

I'm not going to ask why you think I'm town because I think it's because I'm nice to you. But here is an advice: Don't trust someone just because they're nice to you. I'm town this game, but I may not be the next time we meet, and it will be easy for me to pocket you. And pocket here means a scum who gains your absolute trust, you believe they're town and won't vote for them.

[Zurel]

Naturally it's always best to take a PR with you, but her position seemed recoverable.

I think she panicked, which shows in 152.

Regardless of anything, I know you have your eyes on me and flavour, but what's your read on Trendal/Frank?

I leaned town on Trendall because of 71 and his overall interaction with Bire. He genuinely seemed annoyed at being asked obvious things by Bire and if he was scum, I would like to believe that he was good enough to stage a better 1v1 between them. And I leaned Town on Frank because of 129.

I work by eliminating whom I believe is town, and as I said in 156, this game was mostly a case of looking for someone least town-like in an overall town-like players, instead of the most scummy. At least that was for the whole Day 1, until the possible bussing by yours truly Hank.

But if the inactive slots can start being active, it would be very helpful, thanks.

[Zurel]

frfr, fair enough on that. I'd probably lynch me too, if I wasn't so damn handsome.
I mean, just

look

at that pfp

Lucky for you, hun. Because I don't care for appearance <3

[Zurel]

@Faria, do you have any reads to offer? Whom are you most suspicious of (willing to vote today)?

Yes, I have but not a very strong read yet. I have my suspicions on:
Trendall: the way he/she/they is/are acting in this game is very different from the previous one (the one I was there)
Flavor Leaf: like, he/she/they is/are the scum master and I also can't read him/her/them a town yet
Hank Spankems: Neutral for now, the bus vote discussions between you, Flavor and Hank are not clear to me yet, have to read those posts again
Frank Lucas: I mean I even forgot what he posted so far, not sure about him at all!
wiyvern: if they are not mason, then the inactiveness means only lurking to me, so either mason|scum

My dear, that's basically everyone except yourself, Taylor and Bire (because they are dead), and me.

I'm not going to ask why you think I'm town because I think it's because I'm nice to you. But here is an advice: Don't trust someone just because they're nice to you. I'm town this game, but I may not be the next time we meet, and it will be easy for me to pocket you. And pocket here means a scum who gains your absolute trust, you believe they're town and won't vote for them.

I know that and I don't find anything, even a little think to suspect you yet, that's why you are not on that list. Also, everyone is nice to me, not only you wait, wait... maybe you should on that list because I don't find anything to suspect you!!

I think that's a good point. If you remember last game, Aurora didn't play aggressively and it was harder for us to pinpoint him as scum compared to Titus. Playing safe may also be a strategy.

But while mafia is game of suspicion and it's hard to be 100% sure that someone is town/scum, you should try to sort your trust and distrust so you can help solving the whole game.

[Zurel]

frfr, fair enough on that. I'd probably lynch me too, if I wasn't so damn handsome.
I mean, just

look

at that pfp

Lucky for you, hun. Because I don't care for appearance <3

Then you will

adore

my personality. I'm not like the other Heisenberg's, I assure you.

I mean, sure it looks like I'm bussing, but that could very well be anyone who piled onto the vote. If I were scum, I wouldn't have even voted there. I would have just waited for flavour to hammer it, or something. If I'm scum, I can vote and draw attention to myself, orrr alternatively I can just not vote, blend in with a couple of the others and be in a much better position that where I am now. I might be inexperienced, but I'm not dumb. I know what leaves me better off. Please tell me if there's something more 'towny' I can do to convince you all.

What's your take on Frank, Flavor?

I'm prejudiced against Flavor, so even when I townread him, the possibility of flipping back to thinking he is scum is bigger than the rest of you. But if I put aside my prejudice and imagine him as any other SEs, his interaction with Bire on Day 1 makes me think he may be more likely town. In particular the flirty part that I pointed out. If it had worked out between the two, I was more likely to think they were scum together. But Bire obstinately ignored him.

As for Frank, I already mentioned why I town leaned him. But his is the weakest case, so for all we know, the best defense he has is to not make an appearance at all and the moment he is around I will see him as scum.

Don't worry Herr Heisenberg. We still have days, you still have the opportunity to make a case for yourself. And while you won't call yourself dumb, I won't hesitate to call myself gullible. So to any scums out there, good luck and Godspeed.

[Zurel]

Why did Zurel's post about wiyvern confirm Birefringence? I couldn't make any sense of that at all.

Because Taylor is Mason with Wiyvern and forgot that she was (since Wiyvern had been inactive) and only recovered her memory when I mentioned that Wiyvern was inactive.

This was an explanation sponsored by Flavor.

[Zurel]

Trendall, is something going on with your real life? Because you're going to make an easy lunchbait for the scum, like this.

[Zurel]

Lol, my real life is permanent chaos, don't you worry about that. Nobody's really answered my question though, that's the thing. Why does post 162 by Zurel specifically

prove

that Birefringence is mafia like Taylor Swift says it does?

We have answered though? Bire claimed Doctor and Taylor realised Doctor couldn't exist in the setup because she was Mason. And why did Taylor didn't realise it sooner? Apparently she forgot that she was Mason since the other Mason was inactive.

I can't believe I'm explaining this to an SE.

[Zurel]

No you're not understanding my question. Like her forgetting she is a mason is how you're interpreting it (and I also feel like that's not terribly likely, I think generally in the game people remember which role they are). But she said that your post

proves

that Birefringence is mafia, I don't see where the 'proof' is?

How on earth do I know exactly what she meant when I'm not she? I can only explain according to the mechanics and for me it's a good enough explanation.

[Zurel]

If any of you is a Medium, go ask Taylor.

Eh, I'm annoyed.

[Zurel]

Wow, Trendall. Wow.

Someone else handle this slot because I obviously am too stupid to know what 'proof' and 'explanation' mean.

[Zurel]

VOTE: Trendall

Only because I'm annoyed.

[Zurel]

That's e-1?

Yes, that's e-1.

[Zurel]

I dont really see why this matters

Because if everybody just accepts that Bifringence was proven, confirmed mafia other than me, then that means that I'm missing something that everybody else knows and I want to know what it is.

What are you spewing about? We weren't sure that Bire was scum when we placed our votes. The only person who was sure was Taylor and the hammer happened very shortly after that. So yes, it was 'proven' only to Taylor at that moment, and proven later to the rest of us when Bire flipped scum.

[Zurel]

i'm 50-50 with whether I think this is fake or not

286 and 287 as well as things of similar vein are genuine enough, imo. I can see Trendall not giving a flip about what and who and where. But this and of itself is NAI.

[Zurel]

Trendall, let's put aside your Taylor conundrum for now, shall we? There will be time enough to ask her later.

VOTE: Unvote for now.

UNVOTE: Please use the unvote tag - Sirius

[Zurel]

But this and of itself is NAI.

It's relevant though. Flavor Leaf's argument for me being mafia is based on this idea that I like, care about who he is, when I just don't. Struggling to find a way of wording that without it sounding a bit tragic but whatever. So if it's true that I just wouldn't care about this sorta thing as you say it is, then his argument against me collapses.

You will think that way regardless of your alignment, that's why I think it's NAI. But I will just bookmark this and think about it for a very long second.

[Zurel]

Trendall, let's put aside your Taylor conundrum for now, shall we?

It's bothering me that it's not bothering anybody else though. Like she knew something we didn't there apparently, surely? Why am I the only person who thinks that like, it might be relevant to the game to figure out what that actually was?

Because I really, really think it has been answered. But can you please put this aside for now? It's obvious that no one's answer is going to satisfy you and you can only hear it from the horse's mouth. I don't see this fixation as being helpful. So please? Pleeeease?

[Zurel]

Almost every argument Trendall made against Flavor, I had raised at some points in the game. Maybe because of that, they're not enough to convince me Flavor is scum.

I think I want to hear from Frank before I make any decision.

[Zurel]

That's

E-1

, and I'm not hammering.

[Zurel]

You should, you should never let somebody get away with voting for themselves

Why?

[Zurel]

I don't want to, thoooough.

[Zurel]

I get what you're saying and where you're coming from. But here is the thing. Almost all arguments you gave against Flavor I had roused at some points in this game, and combined with the D1 gameplay, I'm not convinced that Flavor is scum. So even if you flip town, it doesn't guarantee that I will vote Flavor. I see it more as TvT right now.

So can you please come down of that lunch tree and maybe work on other suspects? You can work on figuring out if I'm as town as Flavor said, too.

[Zurel]

I mean elimination, not lynch as well. I only found out about that last game, and I've been playing this for ten years and it's just habit to say lynch w/o thinking about it.

They used lynch where I came from to. Old habit dies hard.

[Zurel]

Well the reason you'd be mafia is because you're inconsistent insofar as what emotions you present. One minute you're mad with me, the next minute you're being nice to me and so on. Which is an actual indicator of deception irl - I read an article about this a few years ago but wouldn't be able to find it now. As I think I said somewhere else I can see a scenario in which you like, pretended to be outraged with me. Think it's less likely but it could have happened. Other than that I can't remember finding anything particularly suspicious about you.

I'm just trying to be calm when I play but sometimes emotion does leak out. Then again, I very rarely rolled scum and the last that happened had been so long, so I don't yet know how capable am I at deception.

I have no idea what a 'lunch tree' is.

I just replaced lynch with lunch. I saw Taylor did it in another game.

[Zurel]

Trendall, it was never my intention to call you stupid. For me what you were asking was already obvious and I thought as an SE you should know better than I do. If you were offended by it, I'm sorry.

And yes, I had actually given that point in 841 when I talked to Faria and told her she shouldn't trust me easily.

[Zurel]

Also, what is with people digging up my past game in every game that I play? Am I going to be blighted by this everywhere I go?

[Zurel]

For me Mafia games are not supposed to be personal. If any of you flips scum, I won't be mad, unless you get personal with me. It's just good job for tricking me and stringing me along. But right now it feels personal and for some reasons I seem to be the cause of it, even when I didn't mean it.

[Zurel]

If Flavor is scum, I just want to say,

What a character. How could you leave Bire in a rut like that?

[Zurel]

If there is anyone who could pull off single-handedly carrying mafia to win, I think it would be you Flavor.

But you were also the one who told a newb!scum "I'll save you" and the proceeded to lose the game.

Flavor is obviously more than capable of bussing his partner. Probably has done it more times than I have fingers on both hands and feet. But I don't think he so severely lacks in sportsmanship that he made no effort whatsoever to save Bire. Bire wasn't even exactly under severe pressure when the wagon on her started proper, so Flavor could have done something to save her. And for this reason I believe Flavor to be town.

Unless he does lack sportsmanship, to pull such stunt in a newbie game. In which case God help me I don't want to be in the same mafia team as him, lol. But that could be too close to a besmirch to his character and I don't want to do that.

[Zurel]

Oh

Mod

, I thought you had forsaken us.

[Zurel]

We probably will have to oust Trendall or Flavor or Hank. Or me, if you think I'm scum and can make a good case of why I am scum. They don't favour eliminating lurkers here and I believe we have to eliminate someone, if just for information. Then again, we don't have any PRs so there may be another way to approach this game, if one of the SEs can give us ideas. I'm totally hopeless about roles and mechanics.

For me, Faria is locktown and Wiyvern is conftown, so I won't be touching these slots.

[Zurel]

Also in case anyone is still unsure that Wiyvern is the Mason, this is the closest to the claim we have:

@Trendall - who you want tomorrow if you're town?

I want somebody to explain to me why post 162 by Zurel specifically proves that Birefringence is mafia like Taylor Swift says it does?

Because 162 reminded Taylor that I existed which then reminded her she was a mason, which would lead to bire being fake.
I dont really see why this matters

Mason does not exist alone.

[Zurel]

We probably will have to oust Trendall or Flavor or Hank. Or me, if you think I'm scum and can make a good case of why I am scum. They don't favour eliminating lurkers here and I believe we have to eliminate someone, if just for information. Then again, we don't have any PRs so there may be another way to approach this game, if one of the SEs can give us ideas. I'm totally hopeless about roles and mechanics.

For me, Faria is locktown and Wiyvern is conftown, so I won't be touching these slots.

what is locktown and conftown?

Locktown means I believe with a very strong conviction that you are town. I am locking my town read on you.

Conftown means to me, at least, it has been proven that Wiyvern is Mason and Mason is town. They're confirmed town to me.

[Zurel]

We probably will have to oust Trendall or Flavor or Hank. Or me, if you think I'm scum and can make a good case of why I am scum. They don't favour eliminating lurkers here and I believe we have to eliminate someone, if just for information. Then again, we don't have any PRs so there may be another way to approach this game, if one of the SEs can give us ideas. I'm totally hopeless about roles and mechanics.

if we eliminate Trendall and he/she/they flip town, will it prove Flavor is the scum?

No, I believe that Trendall vs Flavor are TvT, Town versus Town.

[Zurel]

I think the right term is townlock but I can't be asked to check.

[Zurel]

Hypothetically speaking, what if we eliminate you, Flavor?

[Zurel]

But you could die this Night, Flavor. And if you don't die, I think the suspicion against you is only getting stronger.

[Zurel]

Also, can you two stop insulting each other?

[Zurel]

I'm sorry for being slow but I'm not clear about this part:

These are the slots that scum have to fade through and essentially be the last one standing within those 4. Killing in those 4 actively take the fade away which means that scum would have to fade in Zurel/Salsa, things I don’t see happening.

I think I can understand the rest.

[Zurel]

So basically NK are those who are believed to be town and cannot be removed by elimination, and elimination is those that can be used by scums to hide behind, and get miselimination?

[Zurel]

Well, yeah. I still believe you both are town but I also don't feel like seeing the two of you going at each other next Day. And waiting for Frank is meaningless, because he probably just won't appear and a replacement is useless for out purpose right now. Also I desperately need to V/LA so it better coincides with Night.

VOTE: Trendall

That's

E-1

and Hank can hammer later.

[Zurel]

At least I think that's E-1. I have lost count of the VC.

[Zurel]

We probably will have to oust Trendall or Flavor or Hank. Or me, if you think I'm scum and can make a good case of why I am scum. They don't favour eliminating lurkers here and I believe we have to eliminate someone, if just for information. Then again, we don't have any PRs so there may be another way to approach this game, if one of the SEs can give us ideas. I'm totally hopeless about roles and mechanics.

if we eliminate Trendall and he/she/they flip town, will it prove Flavor is the scum?

No, I believe that Trendall vs Flavor are TvT, Town versus Town.

Who you scumread more between Hank and Frank?

Hank.

[Zurel]

Really, Hank? I'm thinking Frank has scum potential from no resistance on Bire, and then not really playing anymore could be scum feeling like they already lost.

Oh, shush you. I was trying to get Hank's reaction.

[Zurel]

Btw Flavor, how does one get better at learning about roles and mechanics? Aside from continuing to play, of course.

[Zurel]

I thought Open would have been better, though I'm already trying Normal.

Are all games in Normal Queue Close games? I look through some and they don't list the roles.

[Zurel]

All right, thanks.

[Zurel]

I would come to you Hank, but you're asking for a boy and that ain't me <3

[Zurel]

I'm in a rush but by NO means will you eliminate Flavor. I believe he's town.

[Zurel]

Sorry that I hadn't been able to make contribution sooner.

[Zurel]

For pushing Trendall wagon,

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I can understand where this was coming from. I think Faria still believes that when there is 1v1, it's more likely than not to be town vs scum. For all I know, that may be statistically true. But in this situation I believed that it was TvT. So why did I agree to have one of them booted out despite believing this?

i) Because Hank's evidence, imo, could only be compared with Frank as they were the most likely suspects. And Frank was conveniently absent so there was no opportunity to examine him.

ii) We can risk sacrificing some townies. There are four townies but only one scum left.

iii) Flavor and Trendall both believe the other to be scum and if they're both allow to live, the same argument they had yesterday will only be repeated today. It's a waste of time and doesn't help with scumhunting at all.

Pedit: I will address everything, Flavor. Give me a very long moment because I won't have time after this.

[Zurel]

I have a long trail of logic that led me to believe that Flavor is town. I didn't come to this reasoning easily. But the last point that cinched my conviction was my 376. It was to bait Hank's reaction, but I caught a bigger fish instead.

Really, Hank? I'm thinking Frank has scum potential from no resistance on Bire, and then not really playing anymore could be scum feeling like they already lost.

Why would a scum suggest the other suspect to be a more likely culprit? If Flavor is scum, Frank and Hank are equally good options for lunchbait, so he could just have kept quiet. I see this as the mentality of a townie hunting for scum.

[Zurel]

Hank has been the hammer on most votes which is suspicious, but not proof he's scum.

I disagree. Hank's vote on Bire could possibly be bussing, but I was the one who said that "Hank could hammer later", so I don't see the second vote on Trendall as scummy.

[Zurel]

I'm by far the easiest to push at this point, so you shouldn't have to worry about Mr Flavor.

From my pov, Faria is my strongest town read followed by Flavor, so I was worried that Faria would go after Flavor. But I can see this as coming from a townie who despaired at being under interrogation.

And now for the riposte. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Frank both conveniently vanished during the push on Trendal (when he still had an equal share of the suspicion) and conveniently reappeared to push me (just as the odds had tipped in his favour). Despite our collective predilection for rapid executions, I humbly ask that you do not rush this vote and allow Frank to explain his seemingly strategic absences.

I agree with this. Frank obviously read this thread and knew where the suspicion and threat lie. I don't like how quickly he voted Hank after Flavor said he believed Hank was scum, like he was relieved he received confirmation from Flavor.

There is little case against Frank because he was not around. But lack of evidence doesn't equal innocence. And here is the thing: for whatever it's worth, I work hard on this game, and I'm less annoyed if Flavor or Hank wins because if they duped me, they sure duped me well. Call it ego but if Frank is scum, I can't accept a lurker winning this game.

I don't know when I'll be able to post next so I'm making my decision now. VOTE: Frank Lucas You can figure out the rest without me.

[Zurel]

Oh, God. What?

[Zurel]

I thought that was a player.

LOL

[Zurel]

Hank, do you think you can come online a few hours earlier tomorrow? I think it's best if the three of us can talk real time and I noticed that seemed to be the only time you and Flavor are online at the same time.

Thanks.

This is for you too, Flavor.

[Zurel]

Woah, you two are sooooo good that I'm 50/50. I still have questions I want to ask you both, though.

[Zurel]

I want to wait for Flavor first, if you don't mind?

[Zurel]

Fun my foot.

It's all right to take your time answering. I too am going to be quite slow.

So my question for you Flavor, why am I still alive instead of Faria?

[Zurel]

I might fall asleep waiting for you guys. I apologise if that happens.

[Zurel]

I want end this as soon as possible. The two of you are the banes of my existence right now and I have half a mind to poison your water source.

I guess I can ask the same question to you too, Hank.

Why am I here instead of Faria?

[Zurel]

Didn't you already know my trust for Flavor was riddled with paranoia?

Why didn't you raise that point about me over Faria while you two were cross-examining each other?

[Zurel]

Didn't you already know my trust for Flavor was riddled with paranoia?

Why didn't you raise that point about me over Faria while you two were cross-examining each other?

And yes, of course it's riddled with paranoia. Your paranoia is 100% justified, but we'll get to that in due course.

What do you mean in due course?

[Zurel]

Speaking of, what's got you hung up? Are there are any other questions you have?

Oh, plenty. I'm not satisfied until I have skinned you both alive.

I can't proceed until I hear from Flavor.

[Zurel]

Fun my foot.

It's all right to take your time answering. I too am going to be quite slow.

So my question for you Flavor, why am I still alive instead of Faria?

Salsa was obv town, and I was pushing like you had potential to be scum still, I would guess.

It'll be fun in hindsight, if that makes sense. haha

I'm on the same page as Hank on this. If Hank is scum, Faria would have been the better option to keep alive today, since Faria openly stated that she did not believe you because you pushed Trendall. You were the one who taught me NK was for those that scums couldn't eliminate and those who wouldn't vote where scums wanted. Don't pretend that you couldn't see this.

[Zurel]

I do see it, Zurel.

I just know that it’s not the case because I know I’m town here.

And I'm Queen Victoria of England.

You can say anything you want, Flavor. Doesn't mean it's the truth.

[Zurel]

Especially considering you said you would pick Hank over me in a 3p situation.

When did I say that? Day 2, I said I would choose you over Hank.

[Zurel]

I'm not done asking questions, children. Don't presume I have made up my mind.

[Zurel]

Ugh, the two of you are such pests. I still like you two, but what pests!

Brb in 10 mins.

[Zurel]

Here is a question for you, Hank.

The reason we, or particularly I was asking about the Wiyvern kill, is because you would have been my shot that night. To put it simply, I would have pushed Frank over Trendall, killed you and then gone from there. Whether or not it's optimal is irrelevant to the fact that the decision to kill Wiyvern is not one I would have made.

What Frank push? I thought we'd already agreed to go down the list of unfortunates. Only difference between our respective lists was eachother, might I add

I feel like these two are a contradiction.

[Zurel]

It was quite strange for me at least, considering I and Flavor were the ones making more decision on whom to kill. So for me those are kinda moot point, because you had always been careful following our decisions, and maybe mine particularly.

[Zurel]

Would have been is a hypothetical statement. But I don't remember you ever trying to influence me to go this or that way.

[Zurel]

Also, you made a mistake saying you were surprised Wiyvern was killed and why not, say, Zurel. But today you told Flavor you would have killed him instead of Wiyvern. Before backtracking to saying actually you would have killed me.

Was this a scumslip?

[Zurel]

And to go back to Flavor, convince me why you didn't bus Bire. I was the one who made defense for you before, but I want to hear it from you yourself.

[Zurel]

I am so gullible and I hate that I am the one stuck here.

[Zurel]

Sure. Fire off.

[Zurel]

No, I haven't. Probably 70% to 80%

[Zurel]

Are you angry that I am asking so many questions, Hank?

[Zurel]

That's terrifyingly close to 100%

Oh, I thought you meant how many questions I still had.

I haven't decided, honestly.

[Zurel]

Sure.

[Zurel]

So what go you into this game, anyway? Why Forum Mafia over all of the other options?

Because I used to play Forum Mafia elsewhere a long time ago. I think it was my ex who introduced me to it. I didn't play much but it was fun enough.

Right now though, it's just plain suffering.

[Zurel]

And to go back to Flavor, convince me why you didn't bus Bire. I was the one who made defense for you before, but I want to hear it from you yourself.

Technically, if I were scum, I didn't bus her. I just would have been condemning her to death.

Had I stated "No, let's not kill Bire." She wouldn't have been forced to claim.

Also, I would have coached her through the game, and had a plan for anything in the case that it went south. I'd have had it completely ready for her.

This was the reason I decided that you might be town because it would be personal attack if I did otherwise. And for this reason I tried so hard to remove my paranoia and evaluate you fairly. I worry that I had swung to the opposite site instead. Did I get pocketed? I know of it in theory but I never experienced it myself, and I thought I had been wary and even shown you some hostility from the beginning.

[Zurel]

So what go you into this game, anyway? Why Forum Mafia over all of the other options?

Because I used to play Forum Mafia elsewhere a long time ago. I think it was my ex who introduced me to it. I didn't play much but it was fun enough.

Right now though, it's just plain suffering.

Ah, so you were previously acquainted.

Suffering can be fun under the right circumstances, though something tells me you're really struggling with this decision (Or lack thereof).

It's tough because D1 I am leaning on Flavor being town but today I am leaning you.

[Zurel]

I mean based on D1 and based on today. Not that right now I'm leaning Hank.

[Zurel]

I'm sorry about Frank. It was my fault. I couldn't be online for long and I didn't know when I could.

[Zurel]

The Doctor claim completely outed her as scum. I would not have told her to claim doctor.

Titus claimed Doctor my last game. Isn't Titus really experienced?

[Zurel]

The Doctor claim completely outed her as scum. I would not have told her to claim doctor.

Titus claimed Doctor my last game. Isn't Titus really experienced?

what setup was it?

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

For a long time there was no CC and we almost believed her claim.

[Zurel]

I don't know why Bire made the decisions that she did, but neither of us would have encouraged her to claim doc. Let's not be insulting here. It was likely a case of Flavor being away due to differing timezones and then she had already committed by the time he reached her.

You were not there for a long time, either Hank. When Bire got to L-1, you were not there and you were not there when I put my vote and said I wanted to pressure her.

[Zurel]

The Doctor claim completely outed her as scum. I would not have told her to claim doctor.

Titus claimed Doctor my last game. Isn't Titus really experienced?

what setup was it?

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

For a long time there was no CC and we almost believed her claim.

Yeah, that was a good claim in that scenario because there were other town PR's.

We had a Mason setup. Scum inherently know more than town because they know which column the game is set in because they know their own role layout.

Oh, yes. That's a good point.

[Zurel]

Okay, stop.

I have made my decision.

[Zurel]

VOTE: Hank Spankems

Now tell me which of you put me through this hell.

[Zurel]

Oh, Flavor. I hate you so much right now.

[Zurel]

Why did you do that to Bire?

[Zurel]

You have no idea what hell you put me through.

[Zurel]

Flavor is the type of person that could talk a camel into buying its own teeth.

[Zurel]

The thing with Trendall though, I could see the both point of views. So regardless of you being a scum, your points were right. I really, really wish that Trendall had not given up like that because I might have chosen him over you. I could read him but I couldn't read you. But Trendall was more insistent on proving he was right.

[Zurel]

What turned it over for you, Zurel?

The masons part, about mafias knowing which setup.

[Zurel]

You both are equally compelling debaters.

[Zurel]

Please do not discuss ongoing games. - Sirius

[Zurel]

I learned a lot from you though, Flavor. So thanks for that.

Though I'm so going to take a break. Fun fact: I played this game while having series of anxiety attack and I had to go the hospital, thus the V/LA.

[Zurel]

Sorry, town. I did my best.

[Zurel]

I already can see how in the hindsight this would be fun memory.

I do love playing with you two.

[Zurel]

Zurel, you actually played really well.
Same goes to all other players. Congrats on finishing your first game if this is your first, and congrats on finishing the game without panic attacks if you're not Zurel!

Thanks, Sirius. I really didn't want to bother your for replacement when it was already quite late. So I just soldiered on.

I love your modding, the messed-up VCs and all. A drop of humour here and there goes a long way. 10/10 would recommend, lol

[Zurel]

You seriously have silver tongue, Flavor.

[Zurel]

Zurel, you actually played really well.
Same goes to all other players. Congrats on finishing your first game if this is your first, and congrats on finishing the game without panic attacks if you're not Zurel!

Thanks, Sirius. I really didn't want to bother your for replacement when it was already quite late. So I just soldiered on.

I love your modding, the messed-up VCs and all. A drop of humour here and there goes a long way. 10/10 would recommend, lol

fun fact: i almost messed up the final VC by writing 'zuraale' instead of 'zurel'

Ugh, how dare you. I'm offended. It's a family name.

Not my family, though.

[Zurel]

Thanks.

Yeah, you'll see in the Mafia PT whenever it gets released that Bire actually thought she was responding to me with that flirting line, she thought I was the one that said your post.

Really? I did say that if it worked out, I would have suspected you both as scums together.

Mafia is so strange. There are small things that influence the outcome. And people who forget her role PM.

[Zurel]

I have updated my signature.

Oh, my place of honour...

[Zurel]

you replaced the quote in my sig "If scumFL sets out to make you town read them, you'll town read them, you just don't know it yet." good one, but it had been there a few years.

Yeah, that did bother me. I kept going back and forth in my mind about you. So if I read him as scummy, then he's not? Vice versa? But I'm paranoid, though.

[Zurel]

Damn, Zurel, look at you go. Moving up in the world already!

One day, I'll give you a quote too.

[Zurel]

Welp, I am going to get a rest and take my meds. Probably not going to join any game for a while and just read past and current games.

Outside of Newbie queue, it's a zoo, Hank. Everyone calling each other's reads shit. Not for my current health.