Newbie 2056: Forkula - Game Over

[Facebones]

I am a vengeful one.

VOTE: Enchant

[Facebones]

I am a vengeful one.

VOTE: Enchant

Oh, hi.

VOTE: unwnd

Nice to see you here, just don't suicide, okay?

Not promising anything.

100% of the games I've played with Enchant she's never committed suicide- Is there something I'm missing?

[Facebones]

I see.
That's some good research there, Cabd. Loving the effort.

[Facebones]

I still think some credit should be given due to offering some insight as to what those two were blathering on about and clearing up the confusion.

I'm also intrigued as to BBmolla's insistance on Salsa- Which one of her opening posts seem scummy and how?

[Facebones]

I still think some credit should be given due to offering some insight as to what those two were blathering on about and clearing up the confusion.

Nah that's nothing at all actually, even Cabd recognizes he shouldn't get towncred for that measly amount of homework

I think you're misinterpreting.

After Cabd admitted to being the backup mod to the game being referenced, it became obvious how he gained that information was NAI. I agree he shouldn't get credit for happenstance.
Instead the subsequent credit was not for how he got aforementioned info, but for putting it out in the thread in a prompt, no bullshit fashion and making it evident to everyone how and why Enchant and Salsa were having that chat about suicide.

Or would you have preferred it if he stayed silent and wasted other players time by forcing them to go through all Enchants games trying to find one that she potentially committed suicide in?

[Facebones]

I'm also intrigued as to BBmolla's insistance on Salsa- Which one of her opening posts seem scummy and how?

Not sure if you missed this question, or are deliberately ignoring it. I'd quite like an answer regardless.

[Facebones]

From what I've gathered so far Enchant, you're saying being helpful doesn't mean they're town and being passive and silent doesn't mean they're mafia. Can you please post something of substance instead of being the antithesis?

[Facebones]

From what I've gathered so far Enchant, you're saying being helpful doesn't mean they're town and being passive and silent doesn't mean they're mafia. Can you please post something of substance instead of being the antithesis?

Well, i played 4 games already, two as town and two as mafia.

Two as mafia won. In our first game, where we meet, only one mafia member executed, because, well, he just blatantly hammered, claimed Cop and said real Cop is "Innocent".
Second game, i just hammered and town not was active enough, scumreading town-lurkers for lurking.

In my first town game i was Jailkeeper, forced to claim because of some "scumreading" and die after from nightkill. Mafia lost, because they both claimed tracker, and remaining one made mistake with setup.
In my second town game, i was vanilla townie, again become target on first day and

selfhammered to not disrupt town in next.

As i see, scumreading never catched mafia in my games at all, and even throwing dice is more reliable. Probably, that's because i have different expierence, but it really makes me sceptical. Numbers not in town favor, and that's reason why mafia win often.

I don't understand the bit in bold, can you please rephrase?

Also, scumreading never caught mafia- I disagree, I've seen it happen. Besides, what's the alternative? Townreading and using PoE?
How's that possible when scum can be helpful and town can be passive and silent?

[Facebones]

1st!

Lol, happens sometimes.

I am a vengeful one.

VOTE: Enchant

Hi, good to see you again. And your vote has irony

these are awful fluffposts

why is it confusing that I think these are scummy

It felt to me that the majority of posts were fluff at this stage. I was curious as to why you thought Salsa's were more scummy than the next? I was merely trying to understand your thought process.

i was playing fun with cabd with the newsletter

my point is that scum opening posts tend to use "fun" to hide themselves

Wasn't the fun newsletter one of your opening posts?

[Facebones]

Apologies for being absent.

Will catch up in a bit.

[Facebones]

At this point in time there's not much for me to say.

Salsa and Arhi have been responsible for a third of the total posts, and I'd like to see interactions from others so if they could kindly shut up for a bit, it'd be greatly appreciated.


BBmolly, the newsletter was indeed your fourth post. Previous to that, I think 2 out of your first 3 posts were voting Salsa and attempting to steer people onto the wagon because she was posting "fluff"?

I'd say your fourth post still constitutes as one of your opening posts in this scenario.

[Facebones]

I'll give you content tonight but I'm not really interested in giving you an easy townread here.

If you were town, wouldn't you want to make it obvious so to avoid any mistakes?
Saying you're not interested in making your alignment apparent seems to be a -EV play.

[Facebones]

Townread: Salsa, Endless
Lean town: Enchant
Null: Mr. Sunshine, Unwnd
Scum lean: BBmolly, Cabd, Arhi

[Facebones]

Salsa and Arhi have been responsible for a third of the total posts, and I'd like to see interactions from others so if they could kindly shut up for a bit, it'd be greatly appreciated.

My conversation with

Ahri

was stopped long time ago.

I get that you guys aren't having a conversation anymore, but since my post 299 the next 6 out of 7 posts have been from you and for me it seems to be rather suffocating.

[Facebones]

I'm not sure why he felt the need to interrupt the discussion between Unwnd and Endless discussion in post 30

Also he admitted to making himself deliberately difficult to townread in 297 and claimed he'd continue to do so.
I can't see a townie doing that in any way, shape or form. Why would they? How is it in any way helpful?


What's your readlist looking like?

[Facebones]

Can you please give your reasons for scum leaning Mr. Sunshine?

[Facebones]

Cabd-
What the hell are you on about?

I read the summary. The line that stood out to me was "the master of yomi can cut to the chase by guessing correctly in a particular situation, rather than merely following a theoretically good rule of thumb for similar situations."
I gather yomi is the game, and interpreted it as such "In certain points in games, a master of mafia has the possibility of guessing correctly rather than focusing the details which would usually constitute a scum read".

Just because they can doesn't mean they will.
It's a newbie game. Most of us aren't masters, and therefore have even less chance of guessing correctly.

I'm awfully confused. How does that explain why being so secretive about your alignment is good?

Is there a TL;DR version?

[Facebones]

We have pretty low chances to execute mafia on first day, so i think we should execute someone to gain as much information as possible. I still can't look at Sunrise posts without thoughs of him being disguised robot.

Since we're probably not going to eliminate mafia D1, we should vote out someone to gain maximum information. I can agree with sentiment. But Mr. Sunshine- the one who's been accused by a couple now of playing robotically? If we do eliminate Mr. Sunshine, and he does flip town, I'm curious what information we can expect to get out of it?

[Facebones]

We will know his role. It's not like we have so many targets with more gain.

In most cases we just get faction of two people, which will help later to check, who accused who.

I don't like the use of the term role there. I'm going to use alignment instead.

We will know their alignment no matter who we eliminate, but you said since we're not likely to eliminate scum on D1 we might as well go for player who will give us the most information. Eliminating the player who's been playing rather robotically and having him flip townie will give us what extra information (besides knowing his role) exactly?
Seeing who accused him?
While you're not accusing him as such, you do seem to be strongly advocating it.

Who you want execute then, and why?

At this point in time I'm undecided. There's a few players I'm suspicious of, but I want to see how everything plays out through the next coupla days before I make my decision.

[Facebones]

I never said he would be a bad flip. I never said he would be a good flip.

Enchant was saying chances of hitting scum on D1 was low and as such we should eliminate someone who would give us the most information and that player according to her was Mr. Sunshine.
I was wondering why she thinks flipping Mr. Sunshine would gain more information than anyone else?

[Facebones]

Just having a bit of a read through

[Facebones]

BBmolly's post 473 seems to me like scum trying to AtE. I'm not sure I buy it.

VOTE: BBmolly

[Facebones]

It was 437

How embarrassing

[Facebones]

I'm blatantly not fucking scum and I'm not gonna let ya'll get away with that shit

This part as well.

The amount of profanity in this sentence is horrendous and the acting isn't much better.

[Facebones]

Had a good look at the game.
These are my thoughts.

I don't like Arhi's post and readlist in 142.
Saying Salsa is

confirmed scum

shortly after BBmolly was attempting to start a wagon on her is suspicious.

Then Arhi unvoted someone who was apparently "confirmed scum" in order to place a vote on Cabd without much of an explanation at all in posts 182 and 184.

Salsa's post 240 might be a lot more relevant than previously thought.

BBmolly's post 329 pings me quite a bit.

I don't believe the interactions between BBmolly/Arhi/unwnd were completely genuine.

In 627 endlessdark is spitting true facts. I don't understand why Arhi placed a vote on herself with her opening post of D2, and I tend to agree with the fact that it could very well be feigned readiness to be eliminated in order to be townread.

After having her townread flip mafia, she's still pretty content on Salsa being the other scum, otherwise it's me and rather than making cases, she's making a fuss about how her reads haven't been too crash hot this game and about how she deserves to be elimmed due to the fact.

With someone who seems to have as much experience as Arhi does, I dunno- it doesn't quite fit right for me.

[Facebones]

I'm interested to hear the reasons behind why Enchant is you're next suspect, can you please elaborate?

[Facebones]

Are we all in agreement then?

[Facebones]

I'm relatively certain I know what Salsa's thoughts are, but we've got time and who knows- she could surprise me.

[Facebones]

You nailed #1 and #3, but I'm not sure what openwolfing is either. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

While we're on the topic, what does w/w mean exactly? Never heard of it

[Facebones]

I see, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up, yo

[Facebones]

Happy to be of assistance, bruz.

Well. She claimed Mafia Rolecop, so it's like... Yeah.

...yeah.

[Facebones]

I just see the night kill result, which also makes no sense to me cause I thought Cabd will be killed as he claimed town PR.

In my last game there was 3 masons, and it worked horribly against town. Mafia won. Town can have wrong reads, and if they're masons with an ego, suffering from confirmation bias is a real thing. I'd say out of the possible town PR's, masons are the least helpful on average.

It could very well be beneficial to scum to have the masons live.

[Facebones]

@SALSA

, gun to head- who would you eliminate and why?

[Facebones]

after seeing BBmolla's flip, I'm not sure about Ahri as I said earlier that BBmolla/Ahri seems easy but it's not a very good reason

Despite calling Arhi scummy all D1, you say you have your doubts about her being mafia due to BBmolly's flip. Then GtH you say she's your equal top pick?
I don't get it?

But I think we don't need to out/confirmed the masons now? At least, not on this Day 2.

I agree we shouldn't out/confirm the masons so early. My point was they're only sure of each other being town, and their reads absolutely have the potential to be wrong (like they were in my last game) since their role isn't investigative.
I'm just saying masons in the wrong hands can be hazardous to town.

[Facebones]

The possibility that they misread someone is more than enough reason for mafia to let them live

So saying "Cabd should've been the obvious NK" is off from my point of view

[Facebones]

Is it possible that Arhi's read on Salsa was actually good?

[Facebones]

Would BBmolly try to start a wagon on his scum buddy so early on D1?

Mr. Sunshine was the first vote on BBmolly as well

This is giving me a headache

[Facebones]

I REALLY think the stalling of the Sunrise wagon is a good sign and think we should go that route

has anyone actually explained any town reasoning for Sunrise???

Hmmmm

[Facebones]

I have reasons to believe they're both town, but obviously they're not.

I think Salsa's post 50 feels genuine.
I like her 109.
Her whole to and fro with BBmolly, including saying his reasons to scumread her are crappy in post 125 I believe is authentic.
Her frustration in 215 for being scumread while I'm being townread over asking the same question doesn't seem to be acting.
Post 230 seems legit, I'd be prickly too if I was being tunnelled so early on D1.
She stuck up for Mr. Sunshine against BBmolly in 275 and 303.
Then in 312 she has Mr. Sunshine as one of her scumreads which I find a bit inconsistent, but I think her answer with 315 in that he does seem to be choosing his words very carefully, trying to not put a foot wrong is a fair reason and she eventually has him as a null read in 408.
I can vibe with her 428, it seems to be coming from a townie mindset. I've had those thoughts before myself.
Her latest posts [post]670, 677[/posts] give me town feelings, like pushing more of an explanation from Mr. Sunshine for rather quickly taking back his suspicions on Enchant after Endless and I questioned him about it for example.

I'll read through Mr. Sunshines posts a bit later.

[Facebones]

I've had a read through Mr. Sunshine's ISO, there's a lot less towny in there than first thought.
I can see more incriminating posts in there than towny posts. A lot of it does seem to be Mr. Sunshine trying to keep his nose clean, stay out of trouble while trying to look busy.

For a town win, my money would be on Salsa.

[Facebones]

In retrospect incriminating might've been the wrong choice of word to use there, but a lot of it seems NAI to me rather than townie

[Facebones]

You were the first on the wagon, I'll give you that. But BBmolly's post 468 and 548 kind of incriminated you a bit in that bussing him scum buddy playing his first game on this website would grant him townie points for voting mafia.

The other person his vote was on was the mason so it's ehhhh.
BBmolly's post 510 is also a bit strange. Btw, what does VI mean?

Everyone thought Arhi was anti-town
I didn't like the picture you posted when you hammered her though, and I would've liked to hear a bit more from Arhi before the hammer (although it's unlikely that would've happened, she seemed to have given up on the game at that stage.) The points you made on Arhi could've been coming from scum trying to make a case on the most likely townie to be eliminated, or from town trying to scum hunt, hence why I consider it NAI.

In fairness, Enchant and unwind were both townies so you probably should've got in trouble for thinking their interactions were fake.

As far as Enchant's hammer goes, I still find it kind of suspect how you thought he was scum then Endless and myself questioned you on it, after which you quickly had a reread and changed your mind because you realised your reasons were silly.

I dunno, BBmolly was campaigning for Salsa in the RVS and then campaigning for you when he felt like he was in the shit about to be elimmed.

[Facebones]

I think you missed my second one, so I am afraid I must insist: "trying to keep his nose clean, stay out of trouble while trying to look busy.". Are you sure about this? I did write things that were on my mind and got in trouble for that, didn't I?

You absolutely did. Hence why I began that sentence with "A lot of it seems like..." rather than "it all seems like..." - because there were some posts, albeit few and far between, where you did speak your mind and got questioned. And rightly so, those were the bits where you were trying to look busy. For example, pointing the fos at Enchant for his odd hammer and "logic."

2 people questioned you on it, and you retreated rather suddenly, saying your reasons were silly after a read through rather than explaining.


I don't think you got chastised for saying Salsa's posts were fluff? I'm pretty sure Salsa admitted her posts were fluff, but it was early on D1 with not a lot to go on, and pretty much everyone's posts were fluff at that stage.

Salsabil Faria, I owe you an answer, sorry for being overdue. If I am not mistaken I agreed with BBmolla that you seemed scummy, you asked me to explain why and my answer was because you were spamming instead of scum-hunting.

BBmolly said they were fluff and you agreed with him, is that correct?


You also didn't get in trouble for your thoughts on Arhi being anti-town. The majority of people thought Arhi was anti-town at that stage (myself included), and as I said, your arguments might've come from a town perspective, or from scum making a case on the least townie lookin' townie around, lining up a mislim which makes it NAI.

[Facebones]

It's not your scuminess per se as much as your lack of towniness

[Facebones]

The fact that you had a vote on BBmolly so early and didn't swap is starting to look a lot more townie from my pov, where as Salsa was kinda stubborn about Arhi accusing her and refusing to change her vote on D1. After the flip she decided to take it a bit easier on Arhi, and the fact that Salsa was nowhere near Arhi's elim after accusing her of being scummy most of D1 is a bit peculiar

[Facebones]

@mod

going 6 days without a single post is on the verge of ridiculous, what are the chances of getting a replacement?

[Facebones]

Fair enough.

@Salsa

If you're that busy in real life that you can't make even one measly in almost a week, why not request to be replaced? Your silence in these critical stages is really not helpful at all.

[Facebones]

Sigh.

This game makes me sad every time I open it.

I'll be in my masonry marking bottles on the wall if anyone needs me until salsa shows up.

Aw, don't be like that, mate. At least you haven't been the victim of a NK, right?
Silver linings and all that bullshit.

[Facebones]

I don't think the yomi would agree with that. Chin up, buttercup.

[Facebones]

I'm from Australia, I know all about time difference.
You made a commitment to show up on Monday, and it's now Tuesday.
I didn't know you had exams, how could I?

You knew you had to study and wouldn't be around to help and post for essentially a week- why wouldn't you request replacement? Please explain why being MIA for that long at this stage in this game is in any way helpful?

[Facebones]

We seem to just be going around in circles.
I'm going with my gut feel.

VOTE: Mr. Sunshine

[Facebones]

But exactly the risky thing happened, so what do you think the mafia team gain from this? And most importantly, what makes you think that I'm the other scum here?

Can I give my thoughts on this?
The "risky" thing did happen, and I have no idea why scum would do that. If they were going to bus, wouldn't they bus the goon on D1 rather than the roleblocker? It's nonsensical from scum, and you not being on the BBMolly wagon has me thinking.

The fact you shifted your vote from BBMolly to Arhi on D1 and were so damn stubborn about her (only to suddenly change your mind about Arhi D2 after the flip) pings me.

I've been reading through so many times, my gut feel now tells me that you're trying to pocket me.

VOTE: Salsa

[Facebones]

...and of course Mr. Sunshine has to bring WIFOM into it.

I'm gonna sleep on this, will have another look tomorrow.

[Facebones]

UNVOTE:

[Facebones]

I do tend to believe Salsa over Mr. Sunshine.
If I'm wrong, apologies to all parties involved.

VOTE: Mr. Sunshine

E-1

[Facebones]

I'm disappointed we didn't get to hear what a drugged up on xanax Cabd had to say in relation to the game, I was rather looking forward that

[Facebones]

Cabd, you hear the people.

It is your civic duty, and it is what must be done.

[Facebones]

Goddamn it Salsa, I believed you! I put all of my trust and my faith in you, and you completely let me down.
I'm not mad, just disappointed, ashamed and embarrassed.

I'm sorry, Mr. Sunshine, for not believing you were town over Salsa. I'm sorry that I misconstrued your consistent pressuring of Salsa on D1 as scum pushing for an easy town elim, Arhi. I'm sorry for not following your Salsa>Mr. Sunshine plan, Enchant. I feel quite the fool.

For the sake of all the dead townies:

VOTE: Salsa

I hope this makes up for my mistakes.

[Facebones]

Your acting was much better than BBmolly's, you deserve an oscar for that shit, yo.

[Facebones]

Performative, yes. But a scumfession it is not.

If I was BBmolly's partner, why would I kickstart his wagon so late on D1 and get rid of my roleblocker buddy, especially when the masons hadn't revealed themselves yet?
That would be a ludicrous action to take.

[Facebones]

You lie!

He voted for you in RVS, you voted for him in RVS, but when it came down to the business end of D1, you were nowhere near his wagon. Instead you were voting for Arhi, because she was the only one who had you pegged as scum from the get go.

[Facebones]

At work, will respond when I finish

[Facebones]

By the

lie

you mean I messed up with Ahri?

No, I mean this:

Same thing goes for me too.

Please explain how you voting for BBmolly in RVS and changing to Arhi when things started to get a bit more serious is the same as me starting a push on BBmolly when there was ~30 hours left in the day, the votes were split across 6/7 players and it ended up resulting in the successful elimination of the mafia PR?

[Facebones]

You can try and defend your vote on Arhi instead of BBmolly all you please, but it doesn't really answer my question?
BBmolly said you were scum early, and then unvoted you. Arhi said you were scum and argued the point. You were convinced Arhi was the scummy one instead of BBmolly, and refused to change your vote.

Arhi flipped town, and BBmolly flipped scum.
I'm claiming the credit for getting BBmolly eliminated due to my post 551 sparking the wagon.
You were online since then, noticeable in posts 556 and 557 and still weren't anywhere near the BBmolly wagon.


Now tell me in what world would scum!Facebones do something as silly as push his partner so late on D1 when there were several viable candidates isntead?
That does not make sense.

[Facebones]

Another thought: Enchant said Salsa>Mr. Sunshine would be GG

As scum, why would I nightkill the mason clearing me as town?

[Facebones]

@Cabd

do you honestly think I'm more likely to flip scum than Salsa here?

[Facebones]

I'm gonna WIFOM my way to victory here at endgame rather than keeping around the mason who was never going to vote for me?

I'm not entertaining this conversation here anymore, it's pointless.

[Facebones]

Another thought: Enchant said Salsa>Mr. Sunshine would be GG

As scum, why would I nightkill the mason clearing me as town?

Please pay attention to this post in particular, Cabd. Say
I am the last scum remaining. Enchant has cleared me as town, saying he will not vote for me.
If I wanted to win, what do I gain out of night killing Enchant?

[Facebones]

I'm not sure I understand your question, could you rephrase it please?

[Facebones]

Why scum!me didn't buss vote BBmolla

Scum wouldn't bus their roleblocker there - it would be an absurd play. That's kind of the whole point?

[Facebones]

I mean, you could've potentially bussed him after the mason claim and gotten some town cred seeing as how you'd know a roleblocker is useless then, but you weren't online.

I received town cred from the other players due to the fact that I was driving the bus against BBmolly BEFORE Cabd claimed mason which, and I don't know how many times I have to say this, is absolutely terrible play if I was the mafia goon.

[Facebones]

By replying I said I didn't online that time which you.don't.want.to.believe

I don't recall saying I didn't believe you were offline?
Please point out where I implied that.

You asked me why you didn't bus BBmolly?
I said you potentially could've if you were online after the mason claim if you believed Cabd was telling the truth, but you weren't online so why are we delving into this hypothetical?

Starting a wagon against your roleblocker buddy that late on D1 with no town PR claims would've been a terrible play from scum!anyone frankly, but the fact of the matter is that it was my vote that really started the momentum going in BBmolly's direction and I'm really hoping Cabd doesn't think I'm stupid enough to do that as scum.

Also there's the nonsense of Enchant NK shenanigans.
Enchant was never voting for me.
Why would I NK him over Cabd there?
Night killing Cabd would've been a guaranteed win for scum!me.

[Facebones]

Hooray for town!

Cabd, apologies about my opening post today. I'll try to not let it happen again.
Appreciate your self control on not snap voting me.

Salsa, you had me completely fooled. You played damn fine, thank you for the challenge.

Arhi, Mr. Sunshine and Enchant, I legitimately feel bad. My opening post today was somewhat sincere.

WE DID IT, GUYS

[Facebones]

If the brutal hydra has any constructive criticism for old mate Boney Face I am also open to improvement