Newbie 2093 | New Wave | Postgame

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Hey hey people

howdy

VOTE: Takemikazuchi02

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VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

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@Cornpuff
yeah I didn't like the post
why do you assume it has something to do with your vote?

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@Cornpuff
yeah I didn't like the post
why do you assume it has something to do with your vote?

Because the vote was the only substantive thing in that post. It would be pretty perplexing to me if you read anything in the top line as AI.

@Cornpuff
is this your second ever online game of mafia?
or have you played elsewhere?

it would be helpful if everyone could give a brief overview of their experience

I used to play a lot on this site, but haven't been active for a few years until recently
I've played recently with furtive, Val, and BigTerp

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Inside jokes ew.
I hope we won't have any jokes this game Big Terp - they can confuse things, which does unfortunately help the mafia.

I really want you to be scum this game
it's your time to shine
I'm not reading anything AI into your one post, just wishing

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@Cornpuff
is this your second ever online game of mafia?
or have you played elsewhere?

found the answer in your last scumchat

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Curious as well what caused the vote flip here as well. TTTT, you say you didn't like the post. Anything specific?

I read the tone as scum+
it's a mild very early read
but better than an RVS vote
his follow ups have been ok

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What's up with people shooting out up to five posts in a row? Seems like a long-form way of saying very little.

I prefer each thought/response be its own post
much easier for those of us who mostly phone post

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I'd have preferred voting Asphodelus, but I don't think wagoning up on a V/LA is going to do much except waste time.

I disagree

VOTE: Asphodelus

This is E-2

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What's the point of putting Aspho at E-2 when she won't be here for the next two days to respond? And during RVS too.

it's not intended to get a response from Aspho
lots of other good reasons to get an early wagon here
for starters nobody cares about a wagon until E-2
as we can see already from the comments following my vote

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Sorry, don’t really know what going on. Anyone care to fill me in quickly.

abdbla said he didn't want to put Asph at E-2 even though he scumread Asph
so I put Asph at E-2
everybody (except abdla for some reason) said "TTTT you make no sense... Asph is on VLA"
and then Takemikazuchi02 in 60 assumed I am town

VOTE: Takemikazuchi02

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As for why I chose you over T02, I think your posting is reminiscent of your posting in the previous game.

can you elaborate on this some more?

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it would be helpful if everyone could give a brief overview of their experience

I’ve played mafia/wolf game, etc. since 2006. Take with that what you want.

how long have you been playing online forum mafia?

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sorry
busy weekend and I forgot to check in
give me a minute to catch up

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I do not understand TTTT's interpretation of T02's 60.

I don't like how T02 assumes I'm town trying to get information

Everyone can see what you're doing though so we're not gonna get good information out of this.

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With respect to votes on T02 and CPB, I saw TTTT made reference to this 'tell' in a recent game, although I can't remember off the top of my head if it was the one we were scum together, and the application of that would tally with 16 and 23. I'm sure there was a point to this, but I forget what it is now. I shall give this gave some more attention once my visitors have taken their leave tomorrow evening.

Cornpuff's entrance was more in line with the typical newbscum greeting tell than T02's
for whatever that's worth

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TTTT and Val. Are opening Hi and Intro posts still considered newbscum in the newbie queue or has it moved past that meta yet? I haven’t played a newbie game in probably like 2 years.

it's not

all

Hi and Intro posts
it's more "greeting the entire thread as a group with enthusiasm"
it was consistently happening in newbie games a few years ago
enough that it was greater than random
and I compiled some data and "outed" it
it was never a tell to rely upon
just another tool in the toolbox

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Thinking saying hi at the beginning of a game is in any way alignment indicative is the dumbest thing I've heard on this website.

If that was what was being said, I would agree, but it isn't. As it happens, I'm also not convinced the actual 'tell' - which from what I can work out is giving a generic greeting to

everyone

in the game, as per the first line of 19 - has any value in actually helping sort the player to which it is intended to apply, but I did think it make sense in explaining the motivation of a theoretical town!TTTT's, since I

DO

think that TTTT/loopdan actually believes that. I was hoping someone else might come in and do the same, because it would have been interesting to see if TTTT would switch their vote as a result, or else how they would handle that.

I couldn't tell you the current status of that 'meta', if you want to call it that, ItalianoVD, and I don't personally think it has much value. I'm sure there was a reason I thought it worth getting out in thread after TTTT said it was a tonal read instead, but I forget what that reason is now - it was something I noted when I read through and I remember getting the barest of townleans on TTTT, and thinking T02 looked a little scummy from the subsequent reactions, but quickly skimming through again I forget why I thought that. I'll read through properly later; and I may either remember what it was, or end up somewhere different.

I think Val is probably town
a lot of this thinking looks very natural

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I'd like to see what the other players from 2091 think about you.

me too

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Italiano's gameplay at the moment is scum+. Town should make an effort to be open and I don't see that. I also think it's easy to fake reads by acting mysterious.

what specifically is "mysterious" about Italiano's gameplay
I have him as a townlean
mostly for poking the bear this hard
and then asking backup from others who were in the last game with him and T02

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Italiano is at E-1

DO NOT VOTE (hammer) Italiano without first:
1) Declaring Intent to Hammer
2) Allowing Italiano the chance to claim a role
3) Allowing all other players to discuss

Failure to follow these steps is the same as scum-claiming

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For the record...
I didn't bring up the Newbscum greeting tell
yes, it was a part of why I SRed CornPuff for his entrance post
but also the awkward tone (especially that last sentence)
I have no interest in debating the usefulness of this tell
or getting into a pissing match about my past results reading new players
moving on...

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84 and 86 were the start, and since then he's kind of played up to the 'secret plan' shtick.

84 was straightforward
86 was weird

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T02 talk to me about someone other than Italiano
who else was in that last game with you
and how do you read them right now?
(I'll read it later when I get a chance)

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@T02
or really talk to me about anything other than Italiano, the newbscum greeting tell, or my vote on Aspho
not really interested in those topics atm

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@TTTT

147 - I thought Take has already said that they did not assume that. Like I'm pretty sure they clarified immediately after.

please show me cuz I missed that

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oh, so after I pointed it out
yeah that doesn't count

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the only Italiano posts that look scummy to me are 71 and 86

other than those I like his play so far

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What's the point of putting Aspho at E-2 when she won't be here for the next two days to respond? And during RVS too.

What's the point of putting Aspho at E-2 when she won't be here for the next two days to respond? And during RVS too.

it's not intended to get a response from Aspho
lots of other good reasons to get an early wagon here
for starters nobody cares about a wagon until E-2
as we can see already from the comments following my vote

Everyone can see what you're doing though so we're not gonna get good information out of this.

town!T02 would be reading the game trying to sort players as scum or town
town!T02 would see TTTT's vote on a player going RVS and wonder if TTTT's motivation for something that looked like a bad play was from a town or scum perspective
scum!T02 would know TTTT is town and so not address the possibility of scum!TTTT

the assumption that my motive in voting Aspho to E-2 while on VLA was to "get good information" possibly reveals an informed perspective
I say possibly because it isn't a slam dunk
town does this sometimes

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I can't lie
Italiano's gamesolve of T02 and CornPuff looks more and more tempting

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take my last post with a huge grain of salt
it's page 8 and there I would be surprised if there isn't scum in the less active players

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Italiano
you said earlier you haven't read the whole game
have you done that at this point?

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T02 talk to me about someone other than Italiano
who else was in that last game with you
and how do you read them right now?
(I'll read it later when I get a chance)

@T02
or really talk to me about anything other than Italiano, the newbscum greeting tell, or my vote on Aspho
not really interested in those topics atm

@TTTT

I'm tired of the bullshit greeting tell so I agree to drop this subject. Just know I will automatically dismiss any use of this "tell"

60 doesn't assume anywhere that you're town. I don't know where you get this from.

give me more
I want your thoughts on the game and it's players
not grandstanding on a topic nobody wants to discuss

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Out of the active people (Italiano, Take, abdbla, Corn, BigTerp), Most town for me are Take and Terp.

I know you said "gut" is why you are TRing BigTerp
I respect that
but can you try and break it down a bit more for me?

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@T02

give me more
I want your thoughts on the game and it's players

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I get TTTT and T02; they're basically slinging shit at each other and trying to see what sticks.

please point out where T02 "slings shit" at me
that's not how I'm reading the game

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got it
thanks

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Aspho
thanks for the unnecessary lecture series on mathematical fallacies
if you are all so interested in this topic
there's a thread where you can discuss it further

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I get TTTT and T02; they're basically slinging shit at each other and trying to see what sticks. Honestly, with how this game is going, I'm convinced they're both actually town but weird.

I'm curious why T02 gets your TR

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I'm concerned for this game

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200
It comes down to the fact you both are arguing at each other with no real end goal in mind. The very fact you both seem like you have no idea what you're doing besides flinging shit at each other makes me think you're both town.

yeah that's gonna need more explanation

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this is my 100th game of mafia on forum dot mafiascum dot net
(someone should bake a cake in postgame or something)
and I'm trying to not be bothered by players rolling up in here thinking they have nothing to learn
and linking fucking wikipedia articles about logical fallacies

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@CornPuff
this is now the 4th time you've defended T01 after I voted him
I don't think it's likely you are partners
but I think it's possible that you are attempting to set up a false associative

VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

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@TTTT

If you're so smart then why haven't you solved this game already? You're acting just like italiano. Veterans smelling their own farts thinking they are smarter than everybody.

I don't think I'm smarter than anybody
I've played enough to know this is not a simple game
and I'm not trying to provoke you
but curiosity and openness are more useful than intransigence

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200
It comes down to the fact you both are arguing at each other with no real end goal in mind. The very fact you both seem like you have no idea what you're doing besides flinging shit at each other makes me think you're both town.

yeah that's gonna need more explanation

I'd still like more explanation of the TRs on me and T02 for "flinging shit at each other"
which you defined as "bickering" in 197 when I asked about it

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@TTTT

I tried so hard to come to an understanding with italiano and look at how he acts and you think I'm the scummy one between me and him and the reason you justify it is a bad gotcha argument?

my vote on you was page 3
lots more interesting stuff happening now

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but T02 what do you think of CornPuff defending you repeatedly beyond how everybody else just said "nah TTTT I don't see it" and moved on?

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I'm going to do my best to shut up until Val and Terp get caught up

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@Val
have you read 2091 (the game with several players from this playerlist)?
if so, what differences in Aspho's play do you see here from that game?
anybody feel free to jump in and answer, but asking Val specifically because he is voting her
I've still only skimmed that game

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No, I definitely don't think TTTT is town leaning

, but more importantly to me, they're just annoying.

well that changed quickly from...

I get TTTT and T02; they're basically slinging shit at each other and trying to see what sticks. Honestly, with how this game is going,

I'm convinced they're both actually town but weird.

and then after rated your Logical Fallacies Lecture Series (sponsored by Wikipedia) a 1 out of 5 stars
you decided I was scum
I get it, you don't like me
I can get on people's nerves
sorry about that
I'm trying to sort people and sometimes it can be grating I know
hopefully, regardless of your alignment, you'll grow to love me
and we can share with each other our hopes and dreams and deepest life regrets

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I don't understand the hostility that's happening this game. It's extremely discouraging.

sorry
I will try and tone it down on my side

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@Asph
plz see below
thanks

200
It comes down to the fact you both are arguing at each other with no real end goal in mind. The very fact you both seem like you have no idea what you're doing besides flinging shit at each other makes me think you're both town.

yeah that's gonna need more explanation

I'd still like more explanation of the TRs on me and T02 for "flinging shit at each other"
which you defined as "bickering" in 197 when I asked about it

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I'd like to hear out TTTT's response to 242 though.

which part?
I don't like the quick change from TRing me to voting me
but the admission that it's OMGUS looks honest

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I don't find TTTT Town-Leaning since a lot of their points are reaches

this point about my points being reachy is decent
but why didn't you think this until

after

I got feisty with you?

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Furtive
I need more from you buddy

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yeah I like both abdbla and BigTerp for town

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EB-WOP:

I find TTTT annoying and Scummy.

I am aware I am biased.

still waiting for you to explain how you went from "TTTT is town but weird" to "TTTT is scum"
it's either a bad scum pivot
or a bad town OMGUS

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I said I'm going to do my part to de-escalate the toxicity of this game
but I'm not going to say nothing when Asph and T02 are calling me arrogant and cringy
I'm arrogant and cringy? I didn't post a giant wall explaining that correlation doesn't imply causation
Asph's play in particular is anti-town
you don't even really scumread me
I just hurt your feelings by saying out loud what others were thinking about your mostly useless wall post
it wasn't even "Look At Me I'm So Town"
it was "Look At Me I'm So Smart"
you don't have to like me, but if you are town then get your vote on someone you scumread

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@TTTT

I want you to give your thoughts on today's developments

I don't care for the abdbla wagon
but I'm also having happier thoughts about CornPuff
Furtive is starting to move to my scum pile because of
POE
and he's not as engaged as his prior town games

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pretty sure Aspho is town here btw
this approach rarely comes from newer scum players

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Furtive
you totally passed the test
locktown status achieved!
not really
I want you to be town (like CornPuff)
but if you are it's gonna take some work bc I don't see it yet

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I think we can all read between the lines of the posts made post-replacement to deduce what drove the decision for them - as town - to step away.

Fuck you for implying this. I'm not the reason he left and you know it. You're such a fucking lying snake holy shit.
I was right about you, you're the worst person I have ever played mafia with so I'll repeat what I said, fuck off.

do I get a say in why I replaced out?
It was largely because you were insufferable and sucking all the fun out of day1
And now you are making post game no fun
people are here apologizing to you (I don't know why) and you are doubling down on your toxicity
it's postgame
learn to deescalate FFS
can you add me to your list of people you don't ever want to play with again?

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Val
I'm seriously impressed by your scum range
You did not play like this at all in our scum game together
Solid

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I only became agressive with him after he made these shitty posts 199 213 because two people disagreed with him on the greeting "tell".

Yeah that's not what happened
I never even brought up the tell
someone else did (I think BigT)
and then two of you got obsessed with it and made it a giant distraction even though nobody was advocating a gamesolve based on that tell
And everybody was saying drop it
You were arguing about something that nobody really cared about
And you were being personally insulting about it
The "shitty posts" I wrote were in response to being lectured to about a topic that was irrelevant to the game, by someone who didn't even bother to try and understand the topic they were lecturing about
Aspho's post was grandstanding
My response was probably more combative than it should have been
But that's part of the game

Newbie games are won by town when they townbloc
It was pretty easy in this game for scum to hide day1 because of silly arguments
I do hope you stick around
But I also hope you will stop with the insults and chill out
it's a team game

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I get that TTTT didn’t want to play because of Take, but my point is not about taking sides, it’s about making the new players time here better so that they want to play and not leave. I understand players clash, but player retention should be more important than wining an argument.

I agree
but players also need to learn how to behave and should be told when they are stepping over the line

Fuck you for implying this. I'm not the reason he left and you know it. You're such a fucking lying snake holy shit.
I was right about you, you're the worst person I have ever played mafia with so I'll repeat what I said, fuck off.

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Anyway, I'd like to move on

@Furtive and @Val
I think you both played well and sometimes it's near impossible to win as scum
Looking back on the game now, is there anything you wish you'd done differently? I remember being puzzled by a night action but can't remember which one it was.

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Your replace in almost certainly saved the game for town